Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[John12346]

This can help save an amount of time, but you know how when you first started your 3DS it asked you to make a Mii of yourself in Mii Maker? That Mii is your representation in most games, and if you change that Mii to a name that's one character long, like "A," you only have to press backspace once when you're renaming custom sets.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

How often is the list in the OP subject to change? I'm planning to use it as the basis of an upcoming local tournament and want to know if I should expect changes within the next week.

 

[M15t3R E]

Shame that this custom moves project wasn't adopted by Apex 2015 but I am excited to hear that it could be a reality for Evo 2015!

 

[Zzuxon]

How often is the list in the OP subject to change? I'm planning to use it as the basis of an upcoming local tournament and want to know if I should expect changes within the next week.

He thinks he'll maybe update it 2-4 times a year. You don't need to be concerned.

 

[DunnoBro]

Actually, instead of making the 10-set list now, what about relegating the 4 slots we have to region-specific? Unless it's a big tournament in another region, this shouldn't be a big issue.

I suggest creating a simple, copyable google docs sheet with each characters name where people can write in their personal set. It doesn't seem likely for there to be more than 4 for a specific character in a single scene...

I think I'll be doing that for MD/VA since people for the most part want their own sets and dislike the idea of presets. Even I find the custom set I want to use for DHD isn't in.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Actually, instead of making the 10-set list now, what about relegating the 4 slots we have to region-specific? Unless it's a big tournament in another region, this shouldn't be a big issue.

A 10-set should be decided on in a timely fashion IMO, but with the caveat that the first 6 or so are the most "vital."

Majors that can't afford to spend time importing moves mid-tournament will have 10 sets to work with.
Locals or tournaments with more leeway can substitute their own preferences for the last few sets.

 

[DunnoBro]

A 10-set should be decided on in a timely fashion IMO, but with the caveat that the first 6 or so are the most "vital."

Majors that can't afford to spend time importing moves mid-tournament will have 10 sets to work with.
Locals or tournaments with more leeway can substitute their own preferences for the last few sets.

Yea we need the 10-set soon, but I think letting regions make their own sets, then using the data from them to determine how we make our 10-set would be more efficient than doing 10-sets first.

So standard + region locally, then when things become more set and less in the air, the 10-set can be more reliable for everyone.

 

[Thinkaman]

Just finished making all the sets on a powersaved 3ds. Took about 1.5 hours, cpuld go faster if you cnaged the name on your 3ds to not have to erase as much every time. So hyped for friday! Tune in on twotch.tv/tourneylocator at 8

WE BELIEVE IN @AeroLink_the_SoulMaster.

 

[DunnoBro]

Here's what I wanna run by md/va to get our community presets. Let me know of any suggestions or concerns you might have before I present it to them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkVo5QVdxBdqMfWI7gcwniHGu0TW98u5gCmQerVvcsg/edit#gid=0

Edit: Actually if someone could find me a list of character names that lists them how they're sorted by the game so I can copy it in, that'd be better than alphabetical since people will want to put them in that way.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'd much, much rather try to stick to a unified set, particularly with EVO center-stage.

At this stage, why would Joe Blow custom-newbie invest any time learning any setup except what EVO will use?

 

[DunnoBro]

I'd much, much rather try to stick to a unified set, particularly with EVO center-stage.

At this stage, why would Joe Blow custom-newbie invest any time learning any setup except what EVO will use?

It's still unified, this is just to overwrite the blank/test sets to help the early stages of the tournament run smoother.

The sets we on smashboards decided were viable are all still in.

This essentially just expedites the process of testing non-presets for locals.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Here's what I wanna run by md/va to get our community presets. Let me know of any suggestions or concerns you might have before I present it to them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkVo5QVdxBdqMfWI7gcwniHGu0TW98u5gCmQerVvcsg/edit#gid=0

Edit: Actually if someone could find me a list of character names that lists them how they're sorted by the game so I can copy it in, that'd be better than alphabetical since people will want to put them in that way.

Spoiler

MARIO
LUIGI
PEACH
BOWSER
YOSHI
ROSALINA & LUMA
BOWSER JR.
WARIO
DONKEY KONG
DIDDY KONG
MR. GAME & WATCH
LITTLE MAC
LINK
ZELDA
SHIEK
GANONDORF
TOON LINK
SAMUS
ZERO SUIT SAMUS
PIT
PALUTENA
MARTH
IKE
ROBIN
DUCK HUNT
KIRBY
KING DEDEDE
META KNIGHT
FOX
FALCO
PIKACHU
CHARIZARD
LUCARIO
JIGGLYPUFF
GRENINJA
R.O.B.
NESS
CAPTAIN FALCON
VILLAGER
OLIMAR
Wii FIT TRAINER
SHULK
DR. MARIO
DARK PIT
LUCINA
PAC-MAN
MEGA MAN
SONIC
Mii BRAWLER
Mii SWORDFIGHTER
Mii GUNNER

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Here's what I wanna run by md/va to get our community presets. Let me know of any suggestions or concerns you might have before I present it to them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkVo5QVdxBdqMfWI7gcwniHGu0TW98u5gCmQerVvcsg/edit#gid=0

Edit: Actually if someone could find me a list of character names that lists them how they're sorted by the game so I can copy it in, that'd be better than alphabetical since people will want to put them in that way.

You need to set permissions so that we can read it.

Character list in order:

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Rosalina & Luma
Bowser Jr.
Wario
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Mr. Game & Watch
Little Mac
Link
Zelda
Shek
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Palutena
Marth
Ike
Robin
Duck Hunt
Kirby
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Fox
Falco
Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Greninja
R.O.B.
Ness
Captain Falcon
Villager
Olimar
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Lucina
Pac-Man
Mega Man
Sonic
Mii Fighter

Gah, 'd.

 

[DunnoBro]

Fixed, and fixed... Thanks guys.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkVo5QVdxBdqMfWI7gcwniHGu0TW98u5gCmQerVvcsg/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Sixfortyfive]

While we're brainstorming tournament logistical stuff, here's the work-in-progress rules I have for my region's next local if the rest of the staff are up for running it:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/gb/gb.txt

This is a draft of what I intend to post in the Facebook event page. Let me know if you think there's anything I should change, clarify, or add. I'm only concerned with the first half of the text (the stuff specifically about customs).

 

[hey_there]

Since we're going to have real tournament results soon courtesy of upcoming tournament streams, it may be prudent to have another character board vote in order to tweak the sets because everyone will be much more educated about what works and what doesn't in a real tournament setting.

 

[DanGR]

Actually, instead of making the 10-set list now, what about relegating the 4 slots we have to region-specific? Unless it's a big tournament in another region, this shouldn't be a big issue.

I suggest creating a simple, copyable google docs sheet with each characters name where people can write in their personal set. It doesn't seem likely for there to be more than 4 for a specific character in a single scene...

I think I'll be doing that for MD/VA since people for the most part want their own sets and dislike the idea of presets. Even I find the custom set I want to use for DHD isn't in.

What happens if I don't want all of my custom sets compiled into a spreedsheet. This can function as a database for players to look up all of my character/customs strategies or look at my character pool. It's to my benefit to only add a custom set I'm using at the time of my match.

 

[DunnoBro]

What happens if I don't want all of my custom sets compiled into a spreedsheet. This can function as a database for players to look up all of my character/customs strategies. It's to my benefit to only add a custom set I'm using at the time of my match.

If the tournament allows putting in your own sets, then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

What happens if I don't want all of my custom sets compiled into a spreedsheet. This can function as a database for players to look up all of my character/customs strategies or look at my character pool. It's to my benefit to only add a custom set I'm using at the time of my match.

Given how concerned they are about everything running on time at EVO, it's possible they won't allow anyone to make a personal set of their own, it may be preloads only. In which case yeah, it needs to be known somewhere so they can put it in.

Not trying to fearmonger but it's a possibility.

 

[DanGR]

Yeah, it's fine if contributing to the spreadsheet is optional. When you're forced to either contribute or risk not having your customs preloaded, there's a problem. I'm starkly opposed to the latter.

 

[Octagon]

Given how concerned they are about everything running on time at EVO, it's possible they won't allow anyone to make a personal set of their own, it may be preloads only. In which case yeah, it needs to be known somewhere so they can put it in.

Not trying to fearmonger but it's a possibility.

That would suck if they didnt have the set you use tho

 

[Sodo]

That would suck if they didnt have the set you use tho

I was thinking this as well. It would kind of defeat the purpose. However, I think DunnoBro has the right idea with this spreadsheet. For regional and local events, there aren't likely to be that many competitors and it would be easier/faster for TOs to just input the sets beforehand. National events are a different story.

 

[Raijinken]

I feel like attempting to use your custom picks as mindgames and pocket strats may be overdoing it for now. It'll be a while before most players are used to customs at all, and eventually it stands to reason that unless you're basically picking an undisputed sub-par set in order to mindgame, most people will be able to react to a slightly odd pick within a stock. Trying to argue that it lets people learn your strat is like suggesting people shouldn't be able to see the stagelist before their match starts.

If it really bothers you, suggest this be only visible and compiled by the TO and other tournament staff, and suggest concealed-pick for the customs. Unlike the character selection, there is no way to see what customs a player has chosen once the loadout is selected (since we have no equipment in these scenarios).

 

[Thinkaman]

Erm, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying, but all rulesets should require enemy character and moveset selections to be known when a game begins. This is a fighting game, not Pokemon or Poker.

Edit:
Hidden information is a great game mechanism in most genres, but it goes with fighting games about as well as bacon goes with ice cream.

 

[hey_there]

Hidden information is a great game mechanism in most genres, but it goes with fighting games about as well as bacon goes with ice cream.

Bacon actually goes pretty well with ice cream. I'd say that hidden information goes with fighting games about as well as ice cream and olives.

 

[Raijinken]

Bacon actually goes pretty well with ice cream. I'd say that hidden information goes with fighting games about as well as ice cream and olives.

But nothing goes well with olives, as they're terrible. Hidden information is cool, just not in a fighting game. (And if you like olives, or anyone else reading this likes olives, then pretend that I said something you find utterly unappetizing).

Erm, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying, but all rulesets should require enemy character and moveset selections to be known when a game begins. This is a fighting game, not Pokemon or Poker.

I agree (not entirely sure if you were directing that at me or the other). I feel, though, like he was addressing the idea of a pocket strategy not unlike making a tournament appearance with a character you weren't previously known to play. However, I feel like in the case of custom moves, such subterfuge isn't reasonable.

 

[Splash Damage]

Do you have a link to the FB poll page please?

 

[Splash Damage]

To give my final verdict, My preferred Little Mac set is 2213, with a few possible deviations(2211/2123), But 2213 is my optimal.

 

[Noa.]

So I recently got my 3ds power saved by someone else and I could transfer all the custom sets to my wii u.

Last night at a smashfest I had my wii u setup with customs and it was pretty wonderful. I've known about customs for a while but this was the first time that I was able to actually play with customs enabled. Unfortunately the only character I play at a proficient level is Ness, and his customs are quite underwhelming. It was still really fun, and I enjoyed playing against a powered up Kirby. Most players were lukewarm to actually using them. Everyone said they liked customs but only some of the players were actually testing out customs significantly.

However the most enthusiastic players also wanted to try out sets that weren't on the custom project sets. It's not surprising really, but thankfully it doesn't matter at a smashfest to just make the set on 3ds and port them over.

And some weeklies here in Orlando might start using customs soon. This is great, and we might be the first custom tournaments in FL. Hopefully customs will travel down to SFL and up to NFL as well. hype

 

[Octagon]

So I recently got my 3ds power saved by someone else and I could transfer all the custom sets to my wii u.

Last night at a smashfest I had my wii u setup with customs and it was pretty wonderful. I've known about customs for a while but this was the first time that I was able to actually play with customs enabled. Unfortunately the only character I play at a proficient level is Ness, and his customs are quite underwhelming. It was still really fun, and I enjoyed playing against a powered up Kirby. Most players were lukewarm to actually using them. Everyone said they liked customs but only some of the players were actually testing out customs significantly.

However the most enthusiastic players also wanted to try out sets that weren't on the custom project sets. It's not surprising really, but thankfully it doesn't matter at a smashfest to just make the set on 3ds and port them over.

And some weeklies here in Orlando might start using customs soon. This is great, and we might be the first custom tournaments in FL. Hopefully customs will travel down to SFL and up to NFL as well. hype

See its posts like these that make me excited for seeing customs used in a competitive setting. They bring so much more variety to a game that had a lot of depth from the start

 

[deepseadiva]

Something struck me just now, pertaining to the language of this and it's how we're referring to this as "custom move legality".

When really what this project is trying to fulfill is the real potential of the whole cast. The movement should really be about letting every character be played optimally and giving them the tools to be optimized.

It really is a shame how the cast is currently disabled by arbitrarily limiting characters to their default moves. Is there even a single character that isn't improved by allowing them to use all their special options? I'm really in agreement with @T0MMY that we can't be divisive about this movement like he said here:

Pigeon-holing those who could otherwise be allies is making matters worse. Lazy people exist and no need to worry about them - if they are lazy they will do nothing good for progression. Pigeon-holing just creates "sides" where people insult each other; compare that result to working together to see where both sides of the camp can do what's best for the community.

I hope we can move forward pushing this as benefiting absolutely everyone and really being a great thing for Smash, for it's depth, for character diversity, and for really how new and exciting this whole thing is.

 

[19_]

Man seeing TKBreezy and shofu streaming customs is the best thing. I hope we make a good list for EVO.

@ Amazing Ampharos when you get the chance can you go around the character boards and resticky and rename threads ("top custom sets" or something like that) I would REALLY appreciate it. Honestly, it makes easier for all of us.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yeah, using different sets at regionals at this phase of the metagame makes a lot of sense. This is a weeding process to find what's actually optimal; we have a pretty decent list in the OP now, but it should be obvious it's not perfect yet and yeah no doubt our collective efforts were more successful on some characters than others. I want to make sure we can put our best foot forward on this well in front of EVO and other summer majors, and it's good that the quality of the sets is being examined in detail at some of these regional events.

As per the tipping of the hands issue, IMO let players submit sets anonymously (perhaps visible to the TO and only the TO). So if I want Charizard 1223 but don't want to tip people off that I have a pocket Charizard, I can get it added to the list without anyone knowing it was me who wanted it (note this also means it's not public that it was requested by the same guy who requested a Rosalina build). If people can infer that it must be me just because I'm the only guy who would ever want a weird custom build for a weird character, well, they were expecting something like that out of me anyway and I haven't really tipped my hand. Otherwise that should be fair and anonymous for guys who want to do that, and the general idea of getting requests from players pre-event and having stuff pre-loaded makes a lot of sense.

I don't have the power to sticky threads in character boards; it was Shaya who helped me out with that at the appropriate time. You'll probably be best talking to the individual mod of the character board in question. I could rename threads (if you have a list of forums in which a rename and my general attention would be very helpful, drop it on me and I'll do what I can). My top focus for the moment for gathering data for set improvement is the events happening and seeing what actually sees tournament success. Honestly monitoring 51 threads continuously is... really hard; my strategy for handling it in the first place was to dedicate a few long sessions to going through every one case by case, generally starting in the early evening and ending around sunrise. It's not that it wasn't worth it or that I wouldn't do it again, but before I dig into 51 moveset debates again, I'd prefer the small delay of allowing a few of these events to happen over, say, this weekend and the next (or at least this weekend itself!).

Black olives are one of the most delicious foods in existence. They are so seldom mixed with other things since they're perfect by themselves. This has no relevance to custom moves, but man, those things are good.

@ deepseadiva This is extremely ironic, but precisely one character gets nothing of use from customs: Diddy Kong. Seriously, his customs are just awful; he has a few that perhaps a sane person might vaguely consider using, but really, everyone using Diddy will run default all day. Every other character does indeed get something of very real merit; for some default is still a great set that will see a ton of play, but every non-Diddy character has serious reason in at least some match-ups to want to run a non-default. I do agree that it's just allowing 50/51 characters to reach the highest potential they can and that's why I think it will gain serious traction in the community as it is more used (after you use the awesome version of your character, do you want to go back to the non-awesome version?), and for that last one, I think current tournament results suggest he's already at a very high potential and no one will be too sympathetic to the poor Diddy mains who don't get their character buffed...

 

[Sixfortyfive]

@ Amazing Ampharos , is there anything that you'd like local TOs to do when they run customs for the sake of data collection?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Just post feedback in this thread, stuff like what's popular (the data gathering types definitely help out when they post that stuff, but you don't have to go hardcore science mode if that's not your thing), what we're missing that players are wanting to use in tournament, and general issues (good and bad) that come about as a result of the customs. That alone makes it really easy to focus on what we're doing right vs wrong in promoting the custom metagame.

 

[thehard]

Tonight.

Let's get down to lovin'.

 

[RWB]

Tonight.

Let's get down to lovin'.

Where?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Just going to make a quick post about Kirby's customs over here, mainly the sets I use. I don't really agree with his current sets, so hopefully I can get some changes.

If you haven't read it already, go here: http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-392#post-18559145

Anyways, going from that, here's my sets for Kirby (with short explanations)

3231 - Upper Cutter, Hammer Bash, Jumping Inhale, Stone. This is the main set for MUs that Kirby isn't as experienced in, as it has his best overall special moves.
3232 - Upper Cutter, Hammer Bash, Jumping Inhale, Grounding Stone. Same as above with Grounding Stone for specific match-ups.
3233 - Upper Cutter, Hammer Bash, Jumping Inhale, Meteor Stone. Same as above with Meteor Stone for specific match-ups.
1233 - Upper Cutter, Hammer Bash, Inhale, Meteor Stone. This set is made specifically for fighting Olimar, as Jumping Inhale has a glitch where Kirby gets latching Pikmin instead of his projectile-like ones. Inhale is needed, as the latching ones are worse in the match-up.
3131 - Similar to other sets but with Hammer Flip, mainly for going against Marth and Lucina, along with being there for those who prefer Hammer Flip (although Giant Hammer is usually, if not always better).
3331 - Same as above, switching Hammer Flip with Giant Hammer. Generally recommended for stronger punishes on shield breaks, but some may feel uncomfortable using Giant Hammer, or prefer using Hammer Flip throughout matches.
2231 - Same as above sets except using Ice Breath for specific match-ups.
2232 - Same as the above set with Grounding Stone instead of default Stone.

2222 + 3333 - Mainly for exploring Kirby's customs. I'd actually recommend keeping these for Kirby at the moment, as the only specials that are useless would be Inhale (except against Olimar), Final Cutter, and Wave Cutter. Everything else has a use, so it'd be good for experimenting.

 

[TK Wolf]

Wasn't able to find this question asked:

What happens if I want custom controls? Do I mess with the existing setups and change them back afterwards? Do I have to have a 3ds with everything i want unlocked and set up? (Not reasonable since not everyone has a 3ds or smash for 3ds)

I really want custom movesets to be a thing, just concerned about this part being viable.

Edit: Or am I dumb and are the custom sets separate from the name tied to your control-scheme?

 

[Nintendrone]

@ TK Wolf Only records and controls are tied to your name. Custom moves are in 10 independent slots. Control changing is accepted in tournaments before a set, as are names.