Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[19_]

Where?

look on the door

 

[Octagon]

Wasn't able to find this question asked:

What happens if I want custom controls? Do I mess with the existing setups and change them back afterwards? Do I have to have a 3ds with everything i want unlocked and set up? (Not reasonable since not everyone has a 3ds or smash for 3ds)

I really want custom movesets to be a thing, just concerned about this part being viable.

Edit: Or am I dumb and are the custom sets separate from the name tied to your control-scheme?

They are probably going to have 10 of the most common sets of customs in the ten slots available for every character for choosing

 

[Kalamoona]

I doubt a retweet based petition will work, but HBox has a "retweet if you want Nintendo to release custom move unlock DLC" post on twitter. I can't posts links yet, but I thought I would let people know for those who can.

It would be nice if Nintendo could release an unlock DLC so that this project's 3DS transfer requirement wouldn't be necessary.
The top set ups for each character would absolutely still be worth using, though. So it's not like it would eliminate the need for community knowledge pooling.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Did I miss Tourney Locator's custom move tournament? What time did it start?

 

[Leonyx]

I believe it starts in an hour. Here's a link for those curious: http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

Just to let people know, Tourney Locator's custom tournament (as linked above) has just started. @ Amazing Ampharos and @ Thinkaman got name-dropped just now, good to see you guys getting the recognition for this stuff.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I hope somebody pulls out a custom set at some point. So far the tournament is going off as normal.

 

[thehard]

This is already fantastic, just two suggestions: Unban Miis & let players upload their own custom sets if need be, in the future. Balance/time constraint fears are unfounded.

 

[deepseadiva]

So far I got to see custom Rosalina, Megaman, Rob, Mii Gunner, Palutena, and Donkey Kong.

All of it was crazy.

 

[DunnoBro]

Streaming customs on the alt umdsmash stream:

http://www.twitch.tv/phrez_smasher

 

[hey_there]

Kong Cyclone is getting bad press on tourney locator =P

 

[Krysco]

As someone who doesn't use DK and hasn't seen any matches with DK and customs (though I do often play against someone who uses DK, they've yet to use him with customs) I gotta ask what's the big deal with Kong Cyclone? Far as I can tell it looks like the normal up b but with a windbox or something. I see some people compare it (possibly jokingly) to Brawl MK's Mach Tornado and if I'm not mistaken the aerial version is better but what exactly makes it so great?

 

[Thinkaman]

Kong Cyclone (ground)
Frame 19-19:     4%         60b/50g (KO@ 691%) 116° 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      38b/60g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      29b/48g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      22b/30g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 49-49:    15%         40b/82g (KO@ 148%)  66° 1.3-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
 Max Damage:    19%
Begins super armor on real frame 20
Ends super armor on real frame 46

Kong Cyclone (aerial)
Frame  4- 6:     3%         50b/40g             75°
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7     100f/30w            130° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash Ground-Target-Only
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      100f/1w             90° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      90b/50g            140° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      70b/50g            220° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 41-41:    12%         55b/80g (KO@ 180%)  62° 1.2-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Max Damage:    15%
Begins super armor on real frame 15
Ends super armor on real frame 36

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

As someone who doesn't use DK and hasn't seen any matches with DK and customs (though I do often play against someone who uses DK, they've yet to use him with customs) I gotta ask what's the big deal with Kong Cyclone? Far as I can tell it looks like the normal up b but with a windbox or something. I see some people compare it (possibly jokingly) to Brawl MK's Mach Tornado and if I'm not mistaken the aerial version is better but what exactly makes it so great?

It has armor shortly after startup, has a giant vacuum to it which absorbs the opponent and plows through projectiles, and can be auto-cancel if you land on a platform.

 

[Krysco]

So super armor, windbox(?) which I'm pretty sure can be shielded, goes through projectiles (the question then becomes how powerful? Like can it go through a Samus Charge Shot or a fully drawn Link bow?) auto cancelling in certain circumstances and a nice 15% damage if all hits connect. Sounds like a nice move but I still picture in my head a DK using it and then having to fall helpless back to the stage unless autocancelled...should probably picture it being used on anything but FD in that case.

 

[hey_there]

So super armor, windbox(?) which I'm pretty sure can be shielded, goes through projectiles (the question then becomes how powerful? Like can it go through a Samus Charge Shot or a fully drawn Link bow?) auto cancelling in certain circumstances and a nice 15% damage if all hits connect. Sounds like a nice move but I still picture in my head a DK using it and then having to fall helpless back to the stage unless autocancelled...should probably picture it being used on anything but FD in that case.

Go unlock it and give it a whirl (). It's really really good. It's something that you really need to practise and have experience against if you want to compete in a customs tournament because it's easy to abuse and it's not something you want to try learning on the fly. I think the thing that gets people is how it pulls you in which can be very disorienting and confusing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Sounds like Mach Tornado.

 

[Krysco]

I have it unlocked but as I said, I don't use DK and the one I often fight hasn't used customs yet. The windbox seems easy to counter by shielding and then just punishing the landing but that's just theory, I doubt it'd be that easy in practice.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Kong Cyclone (ground)
Frame 19-19:     4%         60b/50g (KO@ 691%) 116° 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      38b/60g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      29b/48g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 20-46:    [0%]x3      22b/30g            150° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Frame 49-49:    15%         40b/82g (KO@ 148%)  66° 1.3-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Max Damage:    19%
Begins super armor on real frame 20
Ends super armor on real frame 46

Kong Cyclone (aerial)
Frame  4- 6:     3%         50b/40g             75°
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7     100f/30w            130° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash Ground-Target-Only
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      100f/1w             90° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      90b/50g            140° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash
Frame 15-39:    [0%]x7      70b/50g            220° 0.1-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Slash Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 41-41:    12%         55b/80g (KO@ 180%)  62° 1.2-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Max Damage:    15%
Begins super armor on real frame 15
Ends super armor on real frame 36

Serious question, what's the downside of Kong Cyclone compared to default Spinning Kong?

 

[Krysco]

Testing it on Battlefield on the 3DS version, the windbox seems to reach out pretty far which I could see messing some people up (but again, shield sounds like an answer) and short hopping right before using it causes the auto cancel on the lower platforms. I can imagine it's more exploitable on a stage with platforms that aren't static like Smashville and maybe T&C. I should probably look for some matches where it's used to get a better understanding of it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Serious question, what's the downside of Kong Cyclone compared to default Spinning Kong?

It's actually pretty dubious if the enemy has a command grab.

Kirby Leaping Inhale (to spit) actually OHKO's it off-stage, because it combines the leap and windbox momentum.

 

[warriorman222]

Serious question, what's the downside of Kong Cyclone compared to default Spinning Kong?

Weak to command grabs. Stuff like Leaping Inhale royally screw you. Windbox+jump= HOLY **** THATS FAR!!!

 

[hey_there]

Sounds like Mach Tornado.

Unlike Mach Tornado, it's has pretty much no shield pressure, and you can shield grab DK out of it. Off stage it's an amazing recovery move and an fantastic edge guard. Yes, it's stupid good, but not Mach Tornado stupid good.

Serious question, what's the downside of Kong Cyclone compared to default Spinning Kong?

The default hits more than twice and does more damage overall. But yeah Kong Cyclone has my vote for best custom move.

 

[Teshie U]

Looks like some cool gimmicks, but I don't see it saving DK from getting slapped around all day and taking lots of damage from projectiles.

Customs with armor and/or windboxes are naturally going to cause alot of salt because they can cause alot of confusion at first.

Link's gale boomerang was doing crazy things to people in Brawl before people learned it.

 

[thehard]

Let's not forget to mention that a match was played wherein a DK Kong Cyclone'd and dragged in a Luigi misfire off-stage which killed the DK.

 

[HeroMystic]

Let's not forget to mention that a match was played wherein a DK Kong Cyclone'd and dragged in a Luigi misfire off-stage which killed the DK.

It killed Luigi too though.

 

[Teshie U]

Let's not forget to mention that a match was played wherein a DK Kong Cyclone'd and dragged in a Luigi misfire off-stage which killed the DK.

And the Luigi.

But yea, it is a bit reminiscent of people using Link's Gale Boomerang to fling themselves at him with powerful moves.

 

[thehard]

I'm pretty sure that's because Luigi was too deep though

Edit: I think he could have survived via rising Cyclone + Up B or another Missile

 

[hey_there]

The Luigi's main problem was not bringing Iceballs =3

 

[Raijinken]

Kong Cyclone also deals entirely negligible damage and is virtually useless on the ground.

Not that Copter Kong has a lot of use on the ground, but it's got more than Cyclone does.

 

[Teshie U]

Kong Cyclone also deals entirely negligible damage and is virtually useless on the ground.

Not that Copter Kong has a lot of use on the ground, but it's got more than Cyclone does.

I don't understand your sig, Sheik has two very good customs that give her the only thing her character really needs. She could definitely be the best character again with customs on.

 

[Raijinken]

I don't understand your sig, Sheik has two very good customs that give her the only thing her character really needs. She could definitely be the best character again with customs on.

I guess I should limit it to just saying Diddy. But it's mostly snark at people who already play top-tier characters and thus don't really have much to gain except threats to their position.

 

[DunnoBro]

Yea according to the Hawaiin players they think sheik is the best with customs on.

Though their best player is also a dedicated sheik main who has been pseudo-training with custom sheik for years in brawl minus

Both diddy and sheik definitely will survive in a customs meta though.

 

[Teshie U]

Thats one of the biggest misconceptions about custom moves.

Aside from Diddy, the currently considered viable characters all gain notable advantages from customs. Sheik (neutral, side and possible up b) Sonic (neutral, side and down B), Rosalina (neutral, side and down b), Ness (up b), Villager (all of them).

Characters we know are definitely viable can still get good customs. Its a mixed bag. Some good characters and some bad characters get nothing game changing (Diddy, Puff, Zelda)

 

[thehard]

Yea according to the Hawaiin players they think sheik is the best with customs on.

Though their best player is also a dedicated sheik main who has been pseudo-training with custom sheik for years in brawl minus

Both diddy and sheik definitely will survive in a customs meta though.

I don't want anyone to d-d-d-die in a customs meta!

How did the UMD stream go?

 

[Thinkaman]

Din's Blaze is legit (great edgeguard tool), and I'm increasingly liking Phantom Strike.

Puff at least gets Pound Blitz and Leaping Rest as... options. (heh)

Diddy gets Battering Banana, which is nice for killing Luma but probably worse in every other matchup.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Leaping Rest might be something of note; there are multiple matchups where Rest is simply not as applicable as she'd like, and with U-Throw's 90-degree angle and D-Throw's 80-degree angle, she might have some legitimate throw -> KO combos with it. She struggles to get people to stop shielding in a lot of matchups because she can't punish backward rolls well and her throws do decent damage but have no follow-up potential. The final hit of Pound Blitz is 90 degrees, too, so maybe it has decent work in tandem?

 

[Pazx]

Did somebody say Battering Banana? I'm not convinced it's a straight upgrade from regular nanas but it's not a downgrade either (@ Thinkaman ) . It's almost definitely worth using, a banana peel with more consistent reward and more options that nobody knows how to play against? Yes please. Probably his best custom move overall.

So, I've actually been doing some work with this (it's called Battering Banana Peel [BBP]). It doesn't seem like a bad option, honestly. Here's what I've discovered when comparing it to standard Bananas.

Pros:
True-combo into Uair at any relevant percent (IMPORTANT: true-combo into uair outside of Hoo-Hah percent)
True-combo into Fair at lower percentages
Better reward when hitting airborne foes
Better reward when hitting foes who are standing near the edge
Better reward when hitting foes out of pluck (eg Hoo Hah -> Pluck sets up for more juggles)
Does 1% on "trip"

Cons:
Isn't a hit-confirm to grab (which is a minor issue, BBP -> uair does similar amounts of damage to dthrow -> uair. This also means dthrow is being staled less which is a bad thing for Diddy)
Isn't a hit-confirm to fsmash (mitigated by the fact that it still leads into uair at ridiculous percents)

That's it for cons as far as I can see; it still forces shields, it still sets up for KOs, it still demands respect (perhaps even more) and it can be used to control space and stage positioning. We may have been jumping the gun when we declared Diddy's customs aren't that great.

Edit: someone should get the frame data for this move because the bananas fall closer to Diddy (easier to catch) and I think it's got the same if not shorter startup/cooldown than regular Bananas.

 

[Steeler]

So if I want Charizard 1223 but don't want to tip people off that I have a pocket Charizard

It's so sweet that you are picking up Charizard because of me

But please don't use Rising Cyclone

 

[Piford]

Thats one of the biggest misconceptions about custom moves.

Aside from Diddy, the currently considered viable characters all gain notable advantages from customs. Sheik (neutral, side and possible up b) Sonic (neutral, side and down B), Rosalina (neutral, side and down b), Ness (up b), Villager (all of them).

Characters we know are definitely viable can still get good customs. Its a mixed bag. Some good characters and some bad characters get nothing game changing (Diddy, Puff, Zelda)

I think that's not a misconception by most people. People get that the top tiers gain some alternately good moves. I don't think many are strait up upgrades to really good moves, but I haven't done all my homework. When people say that they don't gain anything, it was because most of their specials were good already and they don't get much better with customs, but the worse characters like Ike had mediocre specials that are now replaced with significantly better ones. Sheik replaces her pretty bad side b for a bad side b. Ness gets a safer up b, but it loses a lot of its utility and attacking/kill power. All of Villagers customs seem equally good as his standards, and will be used based off preference (but all his customs are great and he does benefit a lot). I don't really know much about Sonic.

Rosalina is definitely the most overhyped character with customs. Yes she benefits from them, but it's not like she becomes the most amazing character ever like some people hype. Luma warp is nice, but definitely has its weakness compared to the original. Yesterday, someone actually lost because they used Luma Warp IIRC, they used it and their opponent ran in while Luma was teleporting and he got the punish on Rosalina since Luma was half way across the stage. I've seen her standard down b be more useful than her custom, but that could possibly be because I've seen significantly more standard play than custom. It still seems like the original is better since it isn't reliant on Luma and it can act as a counter attack if the projectile hits your opponent. Her shooting star bits are super overhyped. Yes, they are good, but the original starbits were also not that bad. Most people say it's like giving Rosalina Melee Falco's lasers, but its only like that if Falco could only shoot one laser at a time, couldn't cancel the ending lag, the lasers can't travel as far, and you can take away Falco's gun for 13 seconds if you hit him right. It's a good move, but very overhyped.