Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[Djent]

The proposed ruleset for Smash 4 @ EVO is up. Customs are currently banned, but we have until 3/27 to finalize the rules.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The proposed ruleset for Smash 4 @ EVO is up. Customs are currently banned, but we have until 3/27 to finalize the rules.

For those who don't want to click through:

• Game version: US Nintendo WiiU
• Game Settings: 2 Stock, 5 Minute Time Limit, 2/3 Games
• You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to.
• Custom moves are banned.
• Starter stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville
• Counter-pick stages: Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Duck Hunt, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Town & City
• Winning player is not locked into the same character for the next match, but has to pick before loser selects character.
• You may not choose a stage you have already won on unless mutually agreed to.

I'm...disappointed. To put it lightly.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

@DunnoBro @ ParanoidDrone

While there's not much way I can help with customs other than giving my support (because I absolutely LOVE customs), I do have every custom move, along with a capture card. I've spent quite some time labbing the past few days (mainly for Kirby), so I can easily record some custom combos to help out. I could either make a post on DunnoBro's reddit posts as an extra combo, or make my own posts for it, to spread more awareness about them. This is just an idea, so if DunnoBro doesn't need/want help, then I'll just go back to supporting.

If you'd want this, ParanoidDrone, send me some combos/ideas with customs. I already have a bunch of videos of Kirby's customs and combos... but those'll be appearing elsewhere.

 

[HeroMystic]

For those who don't want to click through:

That time limit is pretty laughable. I won't get into the stage list.

I would expect customs to be banned for now, until they're put into the limelight. That time will be soon.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

They made it For Glory ruleset?

Shouldn't it be 6 minutes normally?

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Shout-outs to keeping that horrendous starter stage list. Incoming Smashville.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think they were going to use customs given the timing of them needing to finalize the ruleset either way. I kinda expected this since the debate of Smash 4 v Melee was a thing with Evo.

So I'm not surprised this happened and was expecting it until people started to finalize and work out how to make them work in the first place.

That time limit shouldn't be a problem normally...but if people get into a Rosalina v Pacman again lol.

 

[Djent]

AAAYYYY, there's hope.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I tweeted this poll at him: http://strawpoll.me/3605916/r

Hope it helps.

 

[thehard]

Can we fix that tiny starter list? And can we get Kongo Jungle 64 on there? Maybe Skyloft? Please??

 

[Balgorxz]

skyloft still banned when its miles better than delfino, and smashville starter ResidentSleeper.

anyways if evo doesn't have customs moves no good player is going to practice with them and after that no one will want them because "the weren't at evo" so lets hope they get in.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

AAAYYYY, there's hope.

That's very encouraging.

@DunnoBro are you anywhere near EVO? I ask because of your powersave service, I can see him balking slightly at having to still unlock it all on the 3DS.

 

[Piford]

So it looks like the only thing the EVO ruleset is doing better than the Apex ruleset right now is no suicide rule. If custom moves get implemented that would be amazing of EVO. The stage list is still basura and I suggest everyone to tweet at him to make it at least 5 starters and add KJ64, Skyloft, and Wuhu Island.

So now for custom moves, It seems like to implement them, he want's restrict uploading your own set. Because of this, I would recommend having this list expanded to the 10 best options for every single character, so we can maximize potentials of custom moves.

 

[Raijinken]

Much as I like the discussion, is this really the place to discuss EVO's disappointments and stagelist?

So it looks like the only thing the EVO ruleset is doing better than the Apex ruleset right now is no suicide rule. If custom moves get implemented that would be amazing of EVO. The stage list is still basura and I suggest everyone to tweet at him to make it at least 5 starters and add KJ64, Skyloft, and Wuhu Island.

So now for custom moves, It seems like to implement them, he want's restrict uploading your own set. Because of this, I would recommend having this list expanded to the 10 best options for every single character, so we can maximize potentials of custom moves.

We can at least scrap the 2222 and 3333 sets for characters who will very rarely want those, and replace them with some borderlines.

 

[Thinkaman]

SUPER MEGA REAL TALK TIME:

If push comes to shove, I'd rather have these:

• 1112
• 1113
• 1121
• 1131
• 1211
• 1311
• 2111
• 3111

Than these:

• 2222
• 3333

We are not at this point yet, with EVO or anyone else. But, this is almost surely a preferable compromise.

Apologies to Ike, the only person who actually wants to run 2222, and Kirby, the only person who would prefer 3333.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Although I'm pretty indifferent whether they get included or not, Mr. Wizard reading tweets is nice. Let's see if he considers the use of custom sets then.

Hopefully 3-stock becomes a thing instead as well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

SUPER MEGA REAL TALK TIME:

If push comes to shove, I'd rather have these:

• 1112
• 1113
• 1121
• 1131
• 1211
• 1311
• 2111
• 3111

Than these:

• 2222
• 3333

We are not at this point yet, with EVO or anyone else. But, this is almost surely a preferable compromise.

Apologies to Ike, the only person who actually wants to run 2222, and Kirby, the only person who would prefer 3333.

Give us our 2222. If we got no uploading movesets allowed at EVO, no reason not to fill up all the slots with moves we actually want.

Besides Palutena, Ike is like the posterboy for custom moves making a character amazing. We gotta have optimal set.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I would like to hear people talk about concrete, viable steps we can take to implement custom moves into our tournaments, right down to the fundamentals of who will be physically uploading these movesets, and how we can verify that they are correctly-labeled and tournament legal before the tournament begins and delays are caused by having to make corrections.

I've made a thread for that discussion if anyone can contribute to it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/to-custom-move-logistics.390766/

 

[Piford]

I would like to hear people talk about concrete, viable steps we can take to implement custom moves into our tournaments, right down to the fundamentals of who will be physically uploading these movesets, and how we can verify that they are correctly-labeled and tournament legal before the tournament begins and delays are caused by having to make corrections.

I've made a thread for that discussion if anyone can contribute to it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/to-custom-move-logistics.390766/

The TO would be setting them up. If you are suspicious of them being correct, test them out during button checks. If something's wrong, report it to the TO and he should fix it.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I hope we get to three stocks someday. Two stocks just leaves barely any room for comebacks.

 

[Protom]

Well Nebulous will be running customs this Sunday (last nebulous was cancelled, renovation Johns).
Like I said last week before it was canceled, I'll report on how it goes. I myself can't wait to be finally able to use twisting fox in an offline tourney.. + + = Win

 

[CT Chia]

@ Amazing Ampharos Since this may start to become more widely used, any chance of there being a second round for selecting the best customs for characters? I personally didn't know of the conversation the first time around, and we may find out more things about customs as time goes on. As one of the leading ROBs, I can say now that the custom ROB line I would use is not listed in the OP. Can only 6 be used?

 

[TheASDF]

Oh man, I'm loving all of the support custom moves have been getting within the last few weeks. This is legitimately exciting to me, who's been a staunch supporter of them that's been mostly met with apathy about them since this game's come out. Aaaack. Them possibly being at EVO is too much for me to handle.

@ CT Chia The idea is that a new update will come in the summer. That said, in the wake of some of these upcoming customs tournaments, I think that having an update even sooner might not be out of order.

 

[Thinkaman]

@ Amazing Ampharos Since this may start to become more widely used, any chance of there being a second round for selecting the best customs for characters? I personally didn't know of the conversation the first time around, and we may find out more things about customs as time goes on. As one of the leading ROBs, I can say now that the custom ROB line I would use is not listed in the OP. Can only 6 be used?

@ CT Chia The idea is that a new update will come in the summer. That said, in the wake of some of these upcoming customs tournaments, I think that having an update even sooner might not be out of order.

The original plan was for a summer update, but it might very well prove reasonable to update things sooner. There are many characters (like ROB) that high level feedback was difficult to find for.

 

[Conker534]

rip smash 4

you'll all go down in history as the ones who killed this game

hope youre happy

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I've never understood the ban-happy philosophy that comes from players in the first place. They seem to defect to it the moment something strong or game-changing comes along. Like, do you hate fun? Shouldn't that be the last thing on your mind? Everyone needs to revert back to having childlike mindsets that desire to abuse the most ridiculous stuff games have to offer, instead of the prudish Committee Game Balance Advisers that populate communities now. It's way more fun.

It's like saying "He/she is not only more skilled at this game than me because they're able to take advantage of something I can't deal with, but they're also more creative than me!" (These are the same people who refuse to use a good tactic on the grounds of "feeling bad") People enter competitive communities without understanding competition. SMH

Although, this sort of thing seems to be a lot better in the Smash community than others I've been a part of, which is nice.

Anyway it's a moot point because no custom moves ever ever need to be banned (except Spinphony)

It's a problem that every competitive community faces because people don't like stepping out of their comfort zones. I mean, just look at Smogon this latest Pokemon generation. Good Lord Arceus...

I never shout "BANNED!" until I've had some extensive time with the subject. Hell, I even enjoy Pilotwings as a competitive stage (though I can understand its ban).

 

[mimgrim]

rip smash 4

you'll all go down in history as the ones who killed this game

hope youre happy

Tell me more about your wonderful insight of the future where customs kill the game. You obviously know more then us mere mortals.

Spoiler

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Don't feed the troll, Mimigrim.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Conker534]

different opinion = troll

great logic, keep up the good work squad. i'll get more shovels, lets build a huge grave site.
will miss you smash 4!

 

[mimgrim]

Don't feed the troll, Mimigrim.

Smooth Criminal

I can't help it. :L

 

[Smooth Criminal]

different opinion = troll

great logic, keep up the good work squad. i'll get more shovels, lets build a huge grave site.
will miss you smash 4!

If you would expand on your opinion as to why customs are detrimental to the game's lifespan and meta, perhaps I wouldn't dismiss you out of hand.

Hint, hint

Smooth Criminal

 

[19_]

@ Amazing Ampharos Since this may start to become more widely used, any chance of there being a second round for selecting the best customs for characters? I personally didn't know of the conversation the first time around, and we may find out more things about customs as time goes on. As one of the leading ROBs, I can say now that the custom ROB line I would use is not listed in the OP. Can only 6 be used?

The original plan was for a summer update, but it might very well prove reasonable to update things sooner. There are many characters (like ROB) that high level feedback was difficult to find for.

I really believe that it's time for the project to out grow smashboards and become a community wide effort.

 

[Galespark]

@ Amazing Ampharos Since this may start to become more widely used, any chance of there being a second round for selecting the best customs for characters? I personally didn't know of the conversation the first time around, and we may find out more things about customs as time goes on. As one of the leading ROBs, I can say now that the custom ROB line I would use is not listed in the OP. Can only 6 be used?

I feel the same way, I went to the Marth thread and it only had like 6 responses and none of them said what in my opinion is the optimal set for him (1123), and also the list is also missing Ganondorf's "2222".

So I think that we should ask for input from tournament players after some proper testing is done.

 

[Conker534]

Custom moves are going to kill Smash 4 as a competitive game so fast the community won't know what hit them.

Getting into Smash 4 is now a nightmare with custom moves.

Competitive games are awesome, because usually there isn't much to unlock to get right into playing and expanding ones skill. People put there time into mechanics and practice that matters, and that's awesome.

Now, with custom moves becoming legal, if someone wants to get into Smash 4 competitively they will have to farm every single custom move. Many people don't want to spend money on a 3ds and a 3ds game for a powersave, and many people will not play single player to farm custom moves. You cannot seriously expect players to spend 40+ hours in a mode they don't enjoy, just to be at the starting point for competition?

It would be much easier to pick up another game for those players, which is competitive almost straight out of the box.

Also the game is well balanced on its own, and adding all of these custom moves doesn't add diversity, just clutter. This is adding 8-10 match-ups per character. That is overly complex, and not healthy to a competitive environment. There are already over 50 characters in Smash 4. Smash 4 is just going to be over complicated and flop and fail.

I'm curious, out of the 5000 reddit smash people that voted yes for custom moves, how many were interested in banning Rosaluma before that passed and Diddy atm. A lot of the new kids in Smash 4 don't really understand what they want, and think custom moves will somehow solve this games problems. Our smash 4 leaders are leading the game to death quickly.

Oh well, if smash 4 is going to be doomed, and the smash 4 community truly wants competitive moves to be a thing, if they really want to expect everyone in a competitive environment to grind for hours against idiot CPU, if they really want to overburden the meta, then I can't stop them.

I'm shocked that I'm such a minority though, maybe that's because all the people who think competitively are playing other games. Maybe i'm playing the wrong game for competition.

maybe my 2222 kirby build will beat hoo hah tho

 

[Chiroz]

I really think 2222 and 3333 builds should not be there unless they're actually viable for that specific character.

Everyone can make them at their own console and practice or use the "allowed space" for it. Basically we should be going for the top 9 sets for each character. Allowing 1 space for anyone who wants to try a "unique" build, not 4 spaces.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I really think 2222 and 3333 builds should not be there unless they're actually viable for that specific character.

Everyone can make them at their own console and practice or use the "allowed space" for it. Basically we should be going for the top 9 sets for each character. Allowing 1 space for anyone who wants to try a "unique" build, not 4 spaces.

For EVO this seems sensible, there's a time and place for experimentation and a national ain't it. It would also open up 2 extra sets for most characters except those that already want 2222 or 3333. (Which is...Ike?) Alternatively it's 2 more empty slots for unaccounted sets, IDK which would be preferable.

 

[Conker534]

If this is gonna go through, don't have preset builds. That is more stupid than anything. At least leave it up to the players. Since you all are fighting for diversity, the most diversity comes from everyone having their own build.

Don't be hypocrites, who are you to tell thousands of people what build is the best?

 

[Thinkaman]

An official EVO release, based on feedback of top players in a post-Apex world and locked in by early march, would be nice.

 

[Thinkaman]

Intentional double post for seperate topic:

If this is gonna go through, don't have preset builds. That is more stupid than anything. At least leave it up to the players. Since you all are fighting for diversity, the most diversity comes from everyone having their own build.

Don't be hypocrites, who are you to tell thousands of people what build is the best?

The point of this thread/project isn't strictly to tell people what to play, but to dramatically speed up tourney logistics by preloading the most popular sets preferred by top players onto the tourney systems ahead of time.

If someone wants to prove the value of an unexpected move, great! But most top players will converge in agreement on which sets are strongest for competitive 1v1 play, and we can speed things up a ton if 99% of custom sets do not require setup.

Many move options are designed for 1v1s, and many are designed for FFAs. The only difference is, some characters have FFA moves as their defaults, and some have 1v1 moves as their defaults.

 

[Chiroz]

If this is gonna go through, don't have preset builds. That is more stupid than anything. At least leave it up to the players. Since you all are fighting for diversity, the most diversity comes from everyone having their own build.

Don't be hypocrites, who are you to tell thousands of people what build is the best?

That's why there would be a space in case you want to create your own build. Deleting set only adds like 2-3 more seconds to the process of creating a new set, while having the optimal sets would save minutes if not hours of play time because of players not needing to create them (Most players will use optimal sets, just like most players use top tier characters).

It's purely a mathematically logical choice to do so.