To be fair Sucumbio, even tournaments with the most limited stage lists allow far more than four stages, almost all tournaments allow Meta Knight (there are limited exceptions, but they are rare), King Dedede infinites are controversial in the community (here in the Midwest-west, they are almost never banned), and IDC is one of those things that really is just an obscure gamebreaking glitch that is extremely easy to understand and only requires you to be good at super fast inputs. Also, no one is stopping you from using IDC in friendlies; I have seen some people do it, and it's hilarious and no one gets mad as long as they don't get obnoxious with it (because friendlies aren't that serious, and it's pretty funny). I have even seen legit IDC tournament use in a sense; InfernoRage was using IDC during crews while the other guy was performing the requisite number of suicides for the format. Tournaments are a really, really big deal that I am very hesitant to downplay; it's just that, yeah like I was saying, they aren't all there is.
The first thing you say about options is really pretty true though. Some stages are horrible because they turn one option for one side of the match into auto-win, almost always the "run away" option for faster characters on loop stages, but for most stages, it's pretty diverse all around. I know I play G&W super differently on Norfair than I do on, say, Frigate Orpheon, and neither of those two stages are particularly representative of how I play on Jungle Japes. There are a lot of options that can only really be fully realized on one particular stage or even by just one particular character on one particular stage, and having more total options in the game is definitely good in the abstract.
You're right, I'm definitely prone to exaggeration, I find it helps cut the middle discussion out so we can get right to the meat and potatoes so to speak. Of course there will be more than 4 stages, I just needed it said that a "master of the game" knows more than what a TO goer can expect.
Here's another way to look at, hyperbole aside.
Friendlies have been said to be excellent preparation for TO. I mean you -can- go to TO just to practice, lol but you may not get too many matches in! Better to be prepared for a TO so that when you do go in you have as much ammunition as possible.
In friendlies, we play on many more stages than what ultimately gets used in most TO. As I said I don't even attend offline TO at least not yet, but I do participate in Online TO.
Forgive the repetition but it helps me think: *starred = most of the time used
Starter
Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (37-0-0) *
Battlefield (47-0-1) *
Smashville (24-0-1) *
Final Destination (26-2-1) *
Starter/Counter
Lylat Cruise (16-9-0) *
Halberd (18-16-0)
Pokémon Stadium 1 (16-14-2) *
Castle Siege (5-9-0)
Counter
Delfino Plaza (6-20-0) *
Brinstar (1-20-0)
Frigate Orpheon (1-29-0)
Rainbow Cruise (0-30-1)
Jungle Japes (0-14-1)
Pirate Ship (0-15-3)
PictoChat (0-25-9)
Pokémon Stadium 2 (0-24-11)
Counter/Banned
Norfair (0-16-10)
Luigi's Mansion (0-11-8)
Distant Planet (0-15-11)
!!! I mean SO many stages listed and yet there's like 7 maybe a couple more I didn't star due to personal experience, but you can see there's still a major discrepancy between what -can- be used and what -is- used.
And why? Not just I haven't experienced enough, lol no, its cause we all have had TONS of experience of a select handful of stages for all our brawl needs, friendly, competitive, and the rest fall into a category or two of "well this may be a good cp but I won't risk it cause i've practiced on it far less and know a lot less about the matchups here than on the stages I know."
I agree banning a stage due to degenerate tactics is really the only reason to ban it. If a stage allows a character to pwn all the time regardless of skill level, or matchup, ban it so that it doesn't become a degenerate stage pick. But I also see AA's point (or I think this is your point) in that the stage's own metagames are lacking because of ... fear? or something... the thing that whatever it is, it tells me to reply "Lylat" when asked "what will your CP be?" instead of replying "Pictochat" ... fear that even if it's in the approved CP list, I still may not pick it cause of the stigma attached or something. Yeah, i know I should not care what others think of me, but I'm sorry, I can't help it! That's why I've taken a much stronger interest in the legality of stages vs the legality of characters/character tactics. I think deep down the stage leads to the character pick. It has to be that way, why else would so many TO offline and online alike still be clinging to this idea that only some stages can provide a fair match. The concept is like a double edged sword.
I main Kirby, for instance. Now I have a great time with him on BF, the floating stages (halberd, delfino), RC, hell I use him on every stage with confidence that I will put up a superb fight, that's why he's my main main, that's why I don't fear bringing him to a competitive match on any stage. But I'm still inclined to starter him on SV or BF and CP him on a starter stage, lol because I'm even better using him on the starter stages than the others. Lack of experience? Yes. I'll admit, I haven't used him nearly as much on the other stages.
I guess this whole diatribe is really trying to get through the thickness of this debate. There's a lot going on in here a lot of ideas on what isn't right and what is degenerate or ban-worthy, but through it all there's the overlying truth which since this game rolled out has culminated in a reality that tournament play and preparing for tournament play are both suffering from a lack of stage experience. Perhaps this is wasted effort? Maybe there's been enough tourneys already that DID allow all stages or near all stages, and because of the epic pwnage resultant the consensus was "well lets NEVER let this happen again, such-n-such's tactic is broken => banned stage" but I guess I just don't see that as being the case. I may be late to the party who knows, I just have a feeling is all, and it feels like I shouldn't be trapped in preparing for competition in this way. I feel as if we'd all benefit from learning our matchups on more than a handful of stages albiet more than 4, it's still too small a list.
IT GETS BORING! That's what it is. I've gotten so sick of the starter stages, lol I remember way back someone had a thread on how sick they were of FD and BF something like I never wanna play on the again, lol ok I'm not that bad, but I see the point.
I think maybe we need some experimental gatherings, maybe something like, no starters! Just stage striking, with 21 picks instead of 11, or whatever. IDK. Just thoughts. .
