Official Stage Legality Discussion

[TehBo49]

My bad on the list. I meant to put Delphino Plaza as counterpick. I also think I missed a stage, but I can't figure out which one.

Pictochat is banned because of the hazards & walls. Norfair is banned due to stalling & the fact that characters with z-airs can potentially live a very long time.

Hanenbow is borderline because other than the lack of edges & a large platform, there is really nothing wrong with it & I can see it argued for a counterpick. Onett is banned because of wall-infinites & stalling although I might change it to borderline.

 

[x After Dawn x]

My bad on the list. I meant to put Delphino Plaza as counterpick. I also think I missed a stage, but I can't figure out which one.

Pictochat is banned because of the hazards & walls. Norfair is banned due to stalling & the fact that characters with z-airs can potentially live a very long time.

Hanenbow is borderline because other than the lack of edges & a large platform, there is really nothing wrong with it & I can see it argued for a counterpick. Onett is banned because of wall-infinites & stalling although I might change it to borderline.

You can't wall infinite on Onett...the cars come by once every few seconds to interrupt them, and there's plenty of room, such as platforms, to avoid that area. Also, you can SDI an infinite to land on the platform above the wall on the right side of the left house. From there, you can just ground tech to safety, but I'm pretty sure you can also just land without teching.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

My personal opinion:

POKEMON STADIUM 2: COUNTER PICK
- I'd say it's good, except the ice. A sliding Ike charging an F-SMASH is just something too scary to deal with.

PORT TOWN AERO DIVE: BANNED
- Although arguable, this stage just gives a little too many things to deal with. Those cars can really K.O.

SKYWORLD: BANNED
-One reason alone: destroyable edges. Recoveries failing soon after.

PICTOCHAT: COUNTER PICK
-Although there are a lot of hazards, there are a lot of indirect obstables that add a new element to the game.

SHADOW MOSES ISLAND: COUNTER PICK
-CHOOSE AT OWN RISK! Although the walls add a good element to the game, chain grabbers will make you never want to play here again.

GREEN HILL ZONE: BANNED
-Permanent run offs.

MELEE STAGES

CORNERIA: COUNTER PICK
-Arwings can get in the way. But otherwise, a nice stage.
BRINSTAR: BANNED
- Lava owns you.

these ones i disagree with!
-ps2...just way to many annoying hazards! banned
-ptad get used to it! stay on the platform! cp
-skyworld- during a fight you would take too long to run around and destroy everything! cp
-picto chat...kirby down b on left edge! try it! BANNED!
-smi-THIS WILL NEVER BE CONSIDERED!!!! BANNED!!!!!!!!!
Green hill zone! gap makes it...akward to cg... walk offs cn be avoided by taking shelter near the edge of the gap... CP


other-wise... my perfect list

Pictochat is banned because of the hazards & walls. Norfair is banned due to stalling & the fact that characters with z-airs can potentially live a very long time.

tether recov ppl need a good cp!

 

[AlexX]

Pictochat is banned because of the hazards & walls.

Damaging hazards can't kill you until incredibly high percentages, not to mention that they might not even appear in a match. Walls that appear are temporary and, often, curved.

Norfair is banned due to stalling & the fact that characters with z-airs can potentially live a very long time.

Stalling which has yet to be proven, and I'm pretty sure the fact it benefits tether recoveries is the whole point of it being counter-pick.

Onett is banned because of wall-infinites & stalling although I might change it to borderline

Cars prevent stalling and wall infinites.

 

[TehBo49]

The walls on Onett still let you rack up damage quickly. When a car comes, Dedede (or whoever else) can shield the car while it hits the other player. There is also the problem of walltechs against nonvertical killers.

Pictochat's hazards still cause a lot of damage causing people to abuse them. The walls are still existent & abusable in ways other than infinites.

Norfair doesn't help tetherers. It helps characters with zairs. Horizontally, they can live forever. Stalling is a problem (see Mic's video). There is also the problem of the lava.

 

[x After Dawn x]

The walls on Onett still let you rack up damage quickly. When a car comes, Dedede (or whoever else) can shield the car while it hits the other player. There is also the problem of walltechs against nonvertical killers.

This is not Melee. The characters have grown and the stage is now at the point where walltechs aren't a real problem for non-vertical killers. Also, if Dedede shields the car, there's your time to walltech or simply jump. You can even just move. Not a big problem.

 

[DEV64]

IMO Nintendo should have added all the Melee stages to brawl therfor not as much of a disput over stages but they didnt so I think we wait and see what the tounments say about which stages.

 

[Charizard92]

we really gotta stop making so many **** lists. Should we try going over stages few by few to see if they are in fact legal?

 

[TehBo49]

He should have put in some SSB64 stages, but that's beside the point.

This is not Melee. The characters have grown and the stage is now at the point where walltechs aren't a real problem for non-vertical killers. Also, if Dedede shields the car, there's your time to walltech or simply jump. You can even just move. Not a big problem.

I'm not sure I understand. If I camp next to a house & play smart, how is a character without a decent vertical KO move going to kill me?

Dedede's wall infinites may not lead into a KO here, but they still put on a lot of damage. The cars come by, on average, about once every 10 seconds. Dedede can perform a grab + dthrow in around 1 second. Multiplied by 8% (the damage his dthrow deals), he can have you as high as 80% before being interrupted (about twice as much as a normal chaingrab). He can also just let the car hit him giving the other character an additional 30% damage. That's a max of 110% damage which is enough to get a KO.

 

[Oracle]

Pictochat's hazards are too easy to avoid and do too little damage to be considered a huge problems, and the walls are temporary. It should be counterpick.

 

[TehBo49]

The hazards are exploitable though. There are enough of them that they cause the overall strategy of the match to focus on them. That's the same problem with Distant Planet.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

wat abbout the picto-kirby-downb on the right side glitch!?

 

[MysticKenji]

wat abbout the picto-kirby-downb on the right side glitch!?

It ends on its own and he's vulnerable after doing it, like with PT's Down+B.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Onett is fine. The car doesn't come 10 seconds after you get chaingrabbed, you could start halfway through the 10 seconds. Also, the car is easy to shield or avoid. If you fall down because you got hit, press A and use your invincibility frames to avoid the car. And nobody's going to get 110 % on them between 2 cars coming by, unless they really suck at the game. And if they do, then they shouldn't be in tournaments.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

THE GLITCH! u cant grab the edge wen it's in effect!

 

[Doggalina]

The hazards are exploitable though. There are enough of them that they cause the overall strategy of the match to focus on them. That's the same problem with Distant Planet.

The match doesn't even almost revolve around the hazards. They aren't even there half the time! I play on this stage all the time, and the hazards don't even come close to breaking the game.

 

[TehBo49]

@ After Dawn: I mean if Dedede holds you when the car comes. Even if you start the chaingrab after 5 seconds, they still take 70%.

@ Doggalina: But with all of those hazards & how easy to exploit they are (e.g. spikes, fire) the strategy becomes using them to inflict damage & win. That's bad.

 

[MysticKenji]

THE GLITCH! u cant grab the edge wen it's in effect!

Yeah, you can.

 

[AlexX]

@ Doggalina: But with all of those hazards & how easy to exploit they are (e.g. spikes, fire) the strategy becomes using them to inflict damage & win. That's bad.

Only like... 6 of the 27 transformations can damage you. It's entirely possible to go entire matches without seeing any of them.

While we're at it, I fail to see how Distant Planet revolves around the hazards. The bulborb is so easy to avoid you deserve to lose a stock if you're eaten by it. Your opponent could launch you off the side and attempt to meteor you into its mouth, but last I checked that wasn't an uncommon way to get a KO, so it's not really anything special to attempt. If your opponent camps by the walk-off edge hoping for a cheap kill you can either just chuck pellets at them or simply hold out until the rain forces them to move.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Yeah, you can.

???hm....well....sonic and snake have a bad time with it!...

 

[smashbro29]

I thought the neutrals were decided to be FD Battlefield Yoshi's Island Lylat Cruise and Smashville and last time I was here weren't we doing it one by one? (either I'm wrong or this thread is going bad)

 

[Oracle]

Nothing's official as of yet. Some people say that there will be a huge list with a lot of unreasonable neutrals (such as pictochat) and counterpicks (rumble falls), but with a stage strike system.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

haha nice sig! and p.c. 4 c.p.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Nothing's official as of yet. Some people say that there will be a huge list with a lot of unreasonable neutrals (such as pictochat) and counterpicks (rumble falls), but with a stage strike system.

why would it affect it that much though? mic said that stage strike was only for the random starters.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Correct, stage strikes were for Random starters only.

 

[chckn]

Nothing's official as of yet. Some people say that there will be a huge list with a lot of unreasonable neutrals (such as pictochat) and counterpicks (rumble falls), but with a stage strike system.

How could they possibly put pictochat as a nuetral?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

How could they possibly put pictochat as a nuetral?

actually,pictochat was almost neutral,until we fount out more and more ways to abuse the transformations

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

so should pictochat be concidered a cp for now?

 

[DuskMarthWater]

It should be considered a CP forever. Period.

Oh, and those tags are funny stuff.

 

[x After Dawn x]

wat abbout the picto-kirby-downb on the right side glitch!?

That would be a terrible reason to ban the stage. You can just make a general tourney rule not to do it...but even if somebody did do it, who cares? You can still grab the edge and grab them with proper timing. If I'm correct, it'll also "undo" the glitch once in a while and there's your chance to strike them.

 

[haasehero]

sry i got out of line

 

[trev94]

wats up with that level with the tree's

 

[MysticKenji]

Haasehero, this list is only for tournies.
You can play on whatever stages you want outside them.

Spoiler

And I think PS2 is fine, but that might just be me.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

so...what about borderline stages like green hill zone, norfair, weegee's mansion, ptad, and skyworld?

 

[haasehero]

Haasehero, this list is only for tournies.
You can play on whatever stages you want outside them.

Spoiler

And I think PS2 is fine, but that might just be me.

Well i plan on going to a tornement but i dont want to deal with these stupid rules
and the reason to play smash is to have fun not be restrected to use certian stages amd charecters its bull

 

[Oracle]

In my opinion you are all being ridiculous. If you remove stages it takes all the fun away from the game if you had your way there would be half the stages. So please stop banning things that are meant to make it fun whats wrong with the poke stadium 2 any way reply if you agree or not on my page

Hey!
Another Xona!
In advance: please go away. You have no intelligent input for this thread, and you have the scrub mentality that the object is to play for fun.

 

[MysticKenji]

words.

1. People can play smash for whatever reason they want.
2. The stage restrictions make it more fair. Running away with Fox/Sonic on Temple for 7 minutes is not fair or fun.
3. There are no character bans.

 

[haasehero]

I geuss u have a point about pokeys city and hyrule but it doesnt feel right to get rid of half the stages most of them to me seem fiar

 

[NinjaFoxX]

I geuss u have a point about pokeys city and hyrule but it doesnt feel right to get rid of half the stages most of them to me seem fiar

hence the word,'seem'

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

I geuss u have a point about pokeys city and hyrule but it doesnt feel right to get rid of half the stages most of them to me seem fiar

being pinned against a wall being cg'd by d3 for an houris no fun either...