• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Stage Legality Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
But you don't get it...you might not want to tech. 1/4 of the time, a pro in Melee didn't tech, for many reasons (avoiding Falco's laser, for example). That means if you choose not to tech, you die.
You seem to have a point there, unless I'm landing on the track, this is still Big Blue we're talking about. You must always tech when landing on the track here, I know Big Blue, and if you don't tech you will be ko'd on the left. One way to train here is to SD to the right using all track single jumps (not in an actual match).
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
You seem to have a point there, unless I'm landing on the track, this is still Big Blue we're talking about. You must always tech when landing on the track here, I know Big Blue, and if you don't tech you will be ko'd on the left. One way to train here is to SD to the right using all track single jumps (not in an actual match).
My brain.

What are you doing to my brain?!

IT'S LEAKING OUT OF MY EARS.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
Can you please put that to rest? You don't know what you're talking about if you want Temple unbanned, which you did. You also only have 3 stages banned in your personal tier list, which also shows you don't know what you're talking about.
It's not Temple, that I don't care much about. It's BIG BLUE!!!! Temple does have some good reasoning, while the only justification for Big Blue is if it's impossible to tech a footstool jump. Even so, you can STILL DI it. If it's possible to tech after getting footstool jumped, then there is absolutely NONE! Big Blue's ban is not really justified in either game.

I may only have 3 in mine, but at least I don't have 19+
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
It's not Temple, that I don't care much about. It's BIG BLUE!!!! Temple does have some good reasoning, while the only justification for Big Blue is if it's impossible to tech a footstool jump. Even so, you can STILL DI it. If it's possible to tech after getting footstool jumped, then there is absolutely NONE! Big Blue's ban is not really justified in either game.

I may only have 3 in mine, but at least I don't have 19+
Temple has good reasoning?

...

Temple was the worst stage in Melee, and is still one of the worst in Brawl. Definitely top 5 worst.

Also, you don't know what DI is and you don't know how it works.
 

peeup

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,618
Location
Hartford/Mass
You forgot Mario Bros... norfair isn't that bad.

I know this isn't legitimate reasoning, but big blue is just a lame stage. Part of the stage is constantly trying to kill you, and the other part of the stage is always trying to get you to the part of the stage that wants to kill you. Also, its just a lame stage.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
Temple has good reasoning?

...

Temple was the worst stage in Melee, and is still one of the worst in Brawl. Definitely top 5 worst.

Also, you don't know what DI is and you don't know how it works.
I do know what DI is DI is when you tilt the control stick, to the left or right to make your character descend that way, it is most useful when there isn't any other option, so if you have to use it you are probably in trouble. The Big Blue DI could be useful to prevent landing on the track after being Footstool Jumped, but it is useless against a Meteor Smash. To counter the track Meteor Smash, you have to either Meteor Jump or tech.

The reason why Chain-Grabs were so over-powered in Melee was because so many throws forced you to DI. DI stands for Directional Influence. I know what DI is. Footstool Jump makes you have to DI.

And about Temple, I have decided that I would ban it if it is in timed stock for sure.

so make that 3 a 4. If without a time limit it would be a 3 still, I can see trying to catch someone who camps being a pain in the neck though, even as Pit, Meta Knight, or Sonic. You can ban whatever stages you like, but don't try to degrade other stage lists.

P.S. It's easier to camp on FD than Hanenbow. Custom stages should be either Counter Pick or Banned, but certainly not neutral. Temple was not all that reccomended for standard tourney play, but FD was even worse. In Brawl FD is 2nd only to Wario Ware Inc. in the category of worst stage.
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Xona, I'm done being nice about this.

You are an idiot and have abso-friggen-lutely no clue what you are talking about. Please go educate yourself elsewhere and come back when you have useful knowledge. Right now you're spouting what is called bull by almost everybody.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
Xona, I'm done being nice about this.

You are an idiot and have abso-friggen-lutely no clue what you are talking about. Please go educate yourself elsewhere and come back when you have useful knowledge. Right now you're spouting what is called bull by almost everybody.
These are ALL matters of oppinions, and I am NOT an idiot. A lot of people agree with me that FD is all about projectile spamming. Go ahead, ban Big Blue in your tournament, but don't go labeling mine just because Big Blue is played or because I have a different ruleset. And if you think Hanenbow is camper-tempting, then you might be right. But if you think they are rewarded for it, then you are wrong. You can go UP through the platform that they are camping on and nail them, they can easily be attacked from any angle.

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And I can if I have to, counter someone who camps on Temple By using Sonic, like I said, his crazy speed can be used to intercept the route that a camper uses. But I would rather not have to be in that situation, I just think that it isn't inescapable. Like I said, excessive stage banning is rediculous. And if you don't believe that I have any useful knowledge, then you won't find out how to Waveland in Brawl.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
These are ALL matters of oppinions, and I am NOT an idiot. A lot of people agree with me that FD is all about projectile spamming. Go ahead, ban Big Blue in your tournament, but don't go labeling mine just because Big Blue is played or because I have a different ruleset. And if you think Hanenbow is camper-tempting, then you might be right. But if you think they are rewarded for it, then you are wrong. You can go UP through the platform that they are camping on and nail them, they can easily be attacked from any angle.

I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And I can if I have to, counter someone who camps on Temple By using Sonic, like I said, his crazy speed can be used to intercept the route that a camper uses. But I would rather not have to be in that situation, I just think that it isn't inescapable. Like I said, excessive stage banning is rediculous. And if you don't believe that I have any useful knowledge, then you won't find out how to Waveland in Brawl.
LMFAO. You have NO idea what you are talking about. What you described in your previous post was not DI, that was just moving in midair.

Please...leave and go learn about Smash Bros. before you even come and try to discuss official stage legality.
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
then you won't find out how to Waveland in Brawl.
OH NOES Smash God! I am sorry to have trodden on your good name! I take back my previous statement and shall edit it do that is worships the ground you walk on! Brawl is dead without you!

No, really, shut the hell up and go away. The second you start claiming the ludicrous to substantiate your ideas is the second you lose any future respect that I could have given you if actually tried to learn something about this game.
 

UnSaxon51

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
285
Location
SoCal
NNID
UnSaxon51
3DS FC
0619-3482-4034
Switch FC
SW 1864 9526 0695
I'm just gonna jump in here real quick. I don't think Temple is a bad stage. Certainly not one of the worst. It's just TOO **** BIG to be tournament worthy. Matches can go forever because of the Cave of Life. The same principle is what makes New Pork City unplayable, except to a much greater degree.

If I was going to rate the worst stages in Brawl, they would have to be
1. Mushroomy Kingdom
2.Mario Bros.
3. 75m
4. Port Town
5. New Pork City

Those 5 are worse than any of the returning Melee Stages (although Brinstar, Big Blue, and Temple get notable mentions). Kingdom is a random side-scroller with a short ceiling and walls galore, New Pork, as mentioned is TOO **** BIG, and the other three suffer from "Watch out, you're dead" syndrome.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
OH NOES Smash God! I am sorry to have trodden on your good name! I take back my previous statement and shall edit it do that is worships the ground you walk on! Brawl is dead without you!

No, really, shut the hell up and go away. The second you start claiming the ludicrous to substantiate your ideas is the second you lose any future respect that I could have given you if actually tried to learn something about this game.
I have already made a video of it and have already posted it, I just knew that you wouldn't believe it when you saw it, simply because I made it. I really did find it. The URL is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swB7TlXOeus
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
LMFAO. You have NO idea what you are talking about. What you described in your previous post was not DI, that was just moving in midair.

Please...leave and go learn about Smash Bros. before you even come and try to discuss official stage legality.
Okay, that isn't DI, I was wrong. But it is a way to survive a Footstool Jump on Big Blue. AND DI COULD save you from a meteor smash by sending you down diagonally into an F-Zero Machine, but that is not likely, you would be better off Meteor Jumping. Wrong terminology, but I did say a way to counter a Footstool Jump on Big Blue. Do you know what track and river teleportation are? They are 2 stage specific AT's where you intentionally jump onto the track in Big Blue and jump off behind a foe, that is track teleportation. River teleportation is on Jungle Japes, you jump straight into the river this time, making sure that there's no Klaptrap that will jump out and anhilate you. Then you jump out with perfect timing to grab the edge or land on the platform, right behind your opponent. If all these stages are banned, then certain AT's will be lost. We should NOT categorically ban moving stages, they test different aspects of the game, without the crazy randomization of items. Or at least we should keep banned stages open for unbanning.
 

Oracle

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
3,471
Location
Dallas, TX
Okay, that isn't DI, I was wrong. But it is a way to survive a Footstool Jump on Big Blue. AND DI COULD save you from a meteor smash by sending you down diagonally into an F-Zero Machine, but that is not likely, you would be better off Meteor Jumping. Wrong terminology, but I did say a way to counter a Footstool Jump on Big Blue. Do you know what track and river teleportation are? They are 2 stage specific AT's where you intentionally jump onto the track in Big Blue and jump off behind a foe, that is track teleportation. River teleportation is on Jungle Japes, you jump straight into the river this time, making sure that there's no Klaptrap that will jump out and anhilate you. Then you jump out with perfect timing to grab the edge or land on the platform, right behind your opponent. If all these stages are banned, then certain AT's will be lost. We should NOT categorically ban moving stages, they test different aspects of the game, without the crazy randomization of items. Or at least we should keep banned stages open for unbanning.
You can't DI during the momentum of a meteor smash, however small that momentum is. Don't make up AT's like "river teleporting". Its really stupid and pointless, especially on two stages that could suffer the ban hammer. Besides, you can't always make sure there isn't a klaptrap.

Custom stages will never be allowed in tourneys, unless a set one is made for a neutral stage, which is unlikey. Please, never ever used the term "overpowered" because 99.99% of people who say that are ******** and/or are looking for an excuse to make up for them losing. Hannenbrow is bigger than FD, heirgo, it is easier to camp. Moving stages are almost always categorically banned because they always distract from gameplay because you always have to move.
Also, stop double posting. Its annoying.
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
I have already made a video of it and have already posted it, I just knew that you wouldn't believe it when you saw it, simply because I made it. I really did find it. The URL is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swB7TlXOeus
So you're trying to take credit for the properties of Pit landing after he performs his gliding attack.

HINT: Only Pit slides any reasonable distance, and only MK, Charizard, and Pit can glide.

Nice 'AT' there.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
You can't DI during the momentum of a meteor smash, however small that momentum is. Don't make up AT's like "river teleporting". Its really stupid and pointless, especially on two stages that could suffer the ban hammer. Besides, you can't always make sure there isn't a klaptrap.

Custom stages will never be allowed in tourneys, unless a set one is made for a neutral stage, which is unlikey. Please, never ever used the term "overpowered" because 99.99% of people who say that are ******** and/or are looking for an excuse to make up for them losing. Hannenbrow is bigger than FD, heirgo, it is easier to camp. Moving stages are almost always categorically banned because they always distract from gameplay because you always have to move.
Also, stop double posting. Its annoying.
Those AT's are stage specific, and they are real. River teleporting is tricky, but you can avoid the klaptraps by entering only after they pass, they move linearly. These AT's are reasons why not ban them, and it's easier to counter camping on Hanenbow in my oppinion, because you can attack a camper from any angle, and below will force them to stop camping. This works because very few characters have attacks that can hit Directly below the platform. While fd, is flat and therefore doesn't allow for dodging of the camper-spammed attacks enough. Most campers spam projectiles (That's why most campers pick Fox, Samus, ect.), FD supports projectile spamming.
If all matches are played on the same type of stages, then there is a serious problem. The reason that's a problem is because that means that not all aspects of the game would be tested. Also, most of the spammed attacks are LAND-BASED in my oppinion, that means moving stages counter spamming. The main exception is U-air, which was already fixed in Brawl with the implementation of the new airdodge system in my oppinion. That's why I think that there should be equally ranked tournament divisions for the different types of stages, singles and 2-on-2 were seperated. Why can't stationary small stages, stationary large stages, and moving stages have their own divisions? The only problem with this idea in my oppinion is the placement of Wario Ware Inc., I would just seperate it from all the others. The reason to seperate it is because there might be people who like it (although I don't know them) and the people of the main 3 stage communities of Smashing don't like it as far as I know. Wario Ware Inc.'s seperation from the other three divisions could mean, a tourney for it, or none for it. And custom stages should be screened by a commitee at the Tourney, to rule on it's division placement. If they are allowed in a division, they shouldn't be neutral stages because one of the combatant's probably BUILT the stage, however if they fit into a division then they should be Counter-Picks in the division they fit in. Also, the "neutral" stage should be selected before character because there isn't such thing as a truly neutral stage.
 

Xona

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Anywhere but final destination
So you're trying to take credit for the properties of Pit landing after he performs his gliding attack.

HINT: Only Pit slides any reasonable distance, and only MK, Charizard, and Pit can glide.

Nice 'AT' there.
For Finding them, not making them. I found this on my own. The fact that Pit, Meta Knight and Charizard don't flip over from landing during any point of their glide attack and can pull off several different attacks is a glitch, also Meta Knight can get some good distance. I just couldn't seem to pull it off perfectly on cue as Meta Knight. And Meta Knight can activate it faster. Now Charizard doesn't get any good distance because he's too slow. This AT is CHARACTER SPECIFIC, meaning that only certain characters can do it. Wall-kicking is character specific. And so is double-jump-canceling. Meta Knight's glide can activate fast enough to be applicable as a Wavedash, so Meta Knight's is just as good. Pit's glide has too much charge-up time to be a Wavedash, but it can make for one nice Waveland.
 

Rhubarbo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,035
um...i would like to get back to the legality of jungle japes now,all of this fail for the last page is giving me a headache...

ok so,ban or not?
I think that Jungle Japes is a good Counter Pick. There is a long warning prior to the Klap Tra arriving so...The only problem I see with it is the fact that the Klap Trap is an OHKO. Despite my feelings for it, I unfortunately believe it will be listed as a ban.
 

NinjaFoxX

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
6,035
Location
Small hole, looks nice though~
that said,could this become the same as summit,where the fish 1HKOs and gives a small warning,i do see it becoming a ban,i honestly had no problem with the Klap whenever i played there,unless i can be showed otherwise,im gonna say counter pick
 

WoapGang

Mighty Soul of Woapgang
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
940
Location
G-Town, Murderland
3DS FC
3411-2904-8277
Just because you never had an encounter with the Klap doesn't mean we all won't,
As far as i'm concerned, Jungle Japes SHOULD be a counterpick based on the stage design itself, The Klap Traps do not occur THAT often anyway
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
For Finding them, not making them. I found this on my own. The fact that Pit, Meta Knight and Charizard don't flip over from landing during any point of their glide attack and can pull off several different attacks is a glitch, also Meta Knight can get some good distance. I just couldn't seem to pull it off perfectly on cue as Meta Knight. And Meta Knight can activate it faster. Now Charizard doesn't get any good distance because he's too slow. This AT is CHARACTER SPECIFIC, meaning that only certain characters can do it. Wall-kicking is character specific. And so is double-jump-canceling. Meta Knight's glide can activate fast enough to be applicable as a Wavedash, so Meta Knight's is just as good. Pit's glide has too much charge-up time to be a Wavedash, but it can make for one nice Waveland.
Look, we've been trying to do you a favor. Now I'm just putting you on ignore.

All I can tell you ate this point is that you're horrendously wrong.

As for JJ, I've seen more Klaptrap KOs than anything else on this stage, but that's my experience. There are just too many ways to get hit by 'em.

ETA: Klaptrap at each ledge that they hit every 7 seconds.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Xona, that's not even really a waveland. A true waveland would be the slide when a crawl dash is performed on a slanted platform. Either way, you have no idea what you're talking about, you don't know your terminology, you make things up, and you only have 3 banned stages on your list, as well as not knowing any criteria for a ban whatsoever. My suggestion would be to leave before you get quoted into my signature or before you get made fun of even more.
 

The Milk Monster

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Collinsville, IL.
Personally, I believe that JJ should be banned, just because the Klap Traps are just lame, camping is huge, and some chars, once they touch the water, it's pretty much game over.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Alright guys, I'm going to post what I think the finalized list from the SBR is going to be. Don't debate about this, debate on the experimental one a few pages back. This is just what I foresee, nothing special and nothing finalized, just something to start some discussion as I see the pace of the thread slowing down again:

Singles:
Battlefield Recommended: Random Starter
Final Destination Recommended: Random Starter
Lylat Cruise Recommended: Random Starter
Smashville Recommended: Random Starter
Yoshi's Island Brawl Recommended: Random Starter

Brinstar Recommended: Counterpick
Castle Siege Recommended: Counterpick
Delfino Plaza Recommended: Counterpick
Distant Planet Recommended: Counterpick
Frigate Orpheon Recommended: Counterpick
Green Greens Recommended: Counterpick
Halberd Recommended: Counterpick
Hanenbow Recommended: Counterpick
Luigi's Mansion Recommended: Counterpick
Norfair Recommended: Counterpick
PictoChat Recommended: Counterpick
Pokemon Stadium Recommended: Counterpick
Rainbow Cruise Recommended: Counterpick
Yoshi's Island Melee Recommended: Counterpick

75 m Recommended: Banned
Big Blue Recommended: Banned
Bridge of Eldin Recommended: Banned
Corneria Recommended: Banned
Flat Zone 2 Recommended: Banned
Green Hill Zone Recommended: Banned
Jungle Japes Recommended: Banned
Rumble Falls Recommended: Banned
Mario Bros. Recommended: Banned
Mario Circuit Recommended: Banned
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 Recommended: Banned
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 Recommended: Banned
New Pork City Recommended: Banned
Onett Recommended: Banned
Pirate Ship Recommended: Banned
Pokemon Stadium 2 Recommended: Banned
Port Town Aero Dive Recommended: Banned
Shadow Moses Island Recommended: Banned
Skyworld Recommended: Banned
Spear Pillar Recommended: Banned
Summit Recommended: Banned
Temple Recommended: Banned
WarioWare, Inc. Recommended: Banned

Same thing for Doubles, except Corneria would be a counterpick and perhaps Onett a counterpick.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
20,342
Location
somewhere near Mt. Ebott
Alright guys, I'm going to post what I think the finalized list from the SBR is going to be. Don't debate about this, debate on the experimental one a few pages back. This is just what I foresee, nothing special and nothing finalized, just something to start some discussion as I see the pace of the thread slowing down again:
The SBR list will look something like this (with use of a stage strike system):

Starter:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi's Island Brawl
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium
Rainbow Cruise

Couterpick:
Brinstar
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Green Greens
Hanenbow
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
PictoChat
Yoshi's Island Melee
Onett
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium 2
Port Town Aero Dive
Shadow Moses Island
Skyworld
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Rumble Falls
Mario Circuit

Banned:
75 m
Flat Zone 2
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2
New Pork City
Spear Pillar
Summit
Temple
WarioWare, Inc.

I don't know where you'd get the vibe that the SBR would be as conservative as possible when they're attempting to be as liberal as possible and let the stages prove themselves broken in tournament settings. I completely hate the list above by the way, but it's what I expect.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Stage strikes are definitely in; I was talking to OS and Kel about it a week or two ago...so Dawn, you should change your list.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
20,342
Location
somewhere near Mt. Ebott
Stage strikes are definitely in; I was talking to OS and Kel about it a week or two ago...so Dawn, you should change your list.
SamuraiPanda already made a post basically confirming it as well a while ago. Not to mention the Kishes already used the system as a tournament they held. Everyone should expect plenty of starter stages with the stage strike system as well as a lot of counterpicks.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
I'd expect the CP list to be a bit more conservative given specific voices in the SBR (i.e. Yuna, Ankoku) but at the same time we have some incredibly liberal CPers (i.e. Overswarm, Kel).
 

Meme

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
412
Location
Nuevo Laredo, Mexico
Switch FC
6939 6733 3968
The stage list looks good...

Although I didn't get the thing on the 2nd list with the "Stage Strike System"

What is that?
 

The Milk Monster

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Collinsville, IL.
I can almost agree on everything in After Dawn's list, but maybe 'cept Norfair and Hanenbow, POSSIBLY no Distant Planet but it's deal-able.

Xiivi's list not so much.
 

AlexX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
651
EDIT: Disregard this post. I posted it to ask what the stage strike system was since I had blanked out on the meaning, but then I came to my senses.
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
46,180
Location
Steam
The stage list looks good...

Although I didn't get the thing on the 2nd list with the "Stage Strike System"

What is that?
Instead of, for example, 5 Starter/Random/Neutral stages and the stage is just randomly chosen, a coin is flipped. Whoever wins picks a stage from the 5 they don't want to play, and it's struck. then the other guy picks a stage and strikes it. they go back and forth til there's only one stage left, and they play on that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom