Official Stage Legality Discussion: Stage Specific

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't beleive it works like Gale Boomerang does so I would say no, coming from a co-Link main. I think they need to be hit by the boomerang when they throw even in the instances where Toon Link's Boomerang does the same thing. I don't think the wind, while being a windbox, has the same properties as the gale boomerang.

I like the ideas you presented about the stage, good job, I'm not sure about this stage, on one hand the hazards themselves are avoidable, however how the come into play is completely random.

So good I'll sit back and listen to debates about the stage.

 

[T-block]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that during my testing the wind effect does not apply past the edge of the stage. So you're only pushed by the wind if you're over the stage.

 

[Ghostbone]

Yea, Japes should definitely be added to the national stagelist, there's seriously nothing wrong with it, and it's much better than Picto (which I have mixed feelings about).

For Pictochat...idk, to me it's too random because it can't always be reacted to in time, especially when in the end lag of moves, and we all know about the gimping line, which can appear at any second that another transformation isn't up. (since there's no strict timer between them).
Then again there is the safety zone but....hmmm
It and WarioWare should be the only stages banned due to randomness really, all the others are fine.

 

[UberMario]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that during my testing the wind effect does not apply past the edge of the stage. So you're only pushed by the wind if you're over the stage.

The wind isn't what can gimp the player, it's the face itself. It is solid on the front, AND has an invisible wall connecting the ends in the back, creating a space about as big as Bowser that you need to get through in order to land on the stage without grabbing the ledge. So if you're using a move such as, say, Fox Illusion, and the face appears, you're screwed, as you won't be getting to the ledge in your freefall. I even had trouble making it above the ledge with Shuttle Loop when it appeared. Obviously, this is going to be in the favor of an edgeguarder, as the person recovering is forced to either recover diagonally upwards at an angle of 30* or less, or take their chances and recover straight up at the edge, assuming they are in range after the time they were falling. Also, the Piranha Plant and Rolling Cart kill around 140% with DI on Wolf without outside intervention, and characters like Meta-Knight and Olimar had a hard time surviving the latter past 110% WITHOUT the influence of another player's attack. The fire doesn't kill easily, however, needing the player to be around 170% for there to be a problem with surviving, and the rockets can be survived until around 200%, so there isn't much of an issue there. The spiked fence is more notable, however, because in the testing, I managed to die at 90% with Meta-Knight, and 115% with Link. The sideways spikes deal as much as 30% damage, but they can be DI'd downward most of the time and actually can help people that are recovering from the side. The windbox-throw-glitch is NOT activated by the face though, I tried several times with Diddy and his Up Throw worked fine.

 

[Tesh]

Its not the kind of wind that halts knockback, so it wouldn't cause any of those windbox related glitches.

Its even just the trasnformations with hitboxes. There are alot of ways that walls, ladders and platforms randomly popping up around you can wreck your stock.

 

[-LzR-]

All of Pictos transformations have a brief moment before becoming active. When you see the spikes, you have a second to dodge them before the hitbox appears.

 

[UberMario]

All of Pictos transformations have a brief moment before becoming active. When you see the spikes, you have a second to dodge them before the hitbox appears.

That is, of course, assuming you're not in the middle of a move with lag (Kirby's UThrow, most recoveries, etc.) or are not in a freefall. Also, the drawings form very rapidly, especially when compared to virtually every other stage feature in the game.

 

[Ghostbone]

I thought the rockets did set knockback?

The drawings do form too rapidly for my taste, plus it's hardly fair to expect players to stick to the safety zone the entire match.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Pictochat just needs a special kind of awareness:
Know the main transformations (hazards and Picasso), and stay alert for them when the stage is blank. Whenever one happens, they won't appear again during the battle, so as transformations passes, the stage becomes gradually more and more safe.

 

[Ghostbone]

Actually that's true, I forgot the transformations only appear once per match...
Yea you've basically changed my mind about Picto now XD

 

[Tesh]

None of that stuff makes it okay. That's like saying RC isn't a horribly stage for Ganondorf because the pendulum only appears 4 times in a tournament match. It wouldn't change the fact that he gets screwed over 4 times. Horrible comparison I know but....

My point is that while the stage becomes more and more predictable later on in the match, it doesn't stop it from stealing a stock or tossing out some free damage near the beginning when you don't know what to expect.

Sure the transformations by themselves would be easy enough to avoid if you didn't have to deal with the other player. But if your opponent forces you to spotdodge, jump, airdodge, attack, roll, shield or recover, the stage can kill you with a random effect at a random time in a random place.

Now unless you believe its reasonable for high level players to cower in the small "safe zone" until the hazards pass, this doesn't seem like the type of stage that we should test skill on. Its random rewards for accomplishing the same things. And unlike every other random stage element currently legal, it has a VERY short time to react to. Going by the BBRRC stagelist we have these random stage effects:

Pokemon stadium 1 and 2- 4-7 seconds, clearly a fair warning for upcoming effects and changes

Smashville- Random starting position for moving platform, completely predictable from that point on. Balloon provides a negligible effect almost all of the time (yes I know how some characters can be gimped by the balloon.

Halberd- Visible and audible warnings for each hazard with 3+ seconds to react and plan

Delfino-Upcoming transformation shows up in the background before the carpet SLOWLY sets down. Fall through glitches are easily reacted to.

Castle Siege- predictable timer slightly variable by load times.

Frigate- Camera zooms out, sirens go off, lights flash. Plenty of time to react. Random platforms on the side....

Yoshi's Island- Shy guys lower from the top of the screen and provide a negligible effect. Random ghost platform...

Lylat- background determines tilting patterns.

So out of all the legal stages, Pictochat is the only one throwing in random junk almost everywhere on the screen with less than a second to react to it. I guess it all comes down to good old subjective perception. Where should the line be drawn?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Do you know what stage control is?
You're not only being forced to spotdodge, jump, airdodge, attack, roll, shield or recover; a good player forces you to do so in a certain zone.

Plus, being aware and playing carefully lowers risks.
If for example, you MUST avoid the left ledge after the Picasso, or else, you risk yourself inte getting gimped.
If you play too much on the air, you risk yourself into getting hitted by hazards.

Your opponent senting you into them, or taking you out of the safety zone means you got outplayed.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

But Kyokoro, I could do the exact same thing to my opponent for twice as long and not be rewarded for it just because I was UNLUCKY.

 

[Tesh]

The same can be said for WarioWare and items.

Stage control gives you a better chance at getting to items first and completing minigames that only one person can win (like the birthday party one).

The problem is random rewards for accomplishing the same things. For example:

Player A reads Player B's approach and pivot grabs him and tosses him offstage.
Spikes pop up during the backthrow animation and Player B takes 80 damage and gets tossed back into player A.
Player A throws out his frame 5 dsmash and player B dies for being pivot grabbed at 50%

or

Player A reads Player B's approach and pivot grabs him and tosses him offstage.
Player B takes a bit of damage, but recovers back to the fight.

If for example hazards show up with fair warning and THEN my opponent intends to throw me into them and succeeds, I got outplayed. If it was just dumb luck, why reward that so greatly?

How is this any more fair than a match on Warioware or playing with items on low?

I am aware this type of thing can happen on other stages, but there is a reason we call things excessively random. This looks like one of those things to me. Its a shame that so many stages with unique features have these other problems that ruin them competitively. I personally love the layout of WarioWare's platforms.

 

[ぱみゅ]

But Kyokoro, I could do the exact same thing to my opponent for twice as long and not be rewarded for it just because I was UNLUCKY.

You can exploit risks, but neither you nor your opponent has waranted success for trying.

Incosistent? Probably.
Broken? No way.

The same can be said for WarioWare and items.

Stage control gives you a better chance at getting to items first and completing minigames that only one person can win (like the birthday party one).

Forcing your oppoent into being unable to succeed on minigames is part of the stage control and depht and that's a good feature.
WW would be pretty fair if rewards weren't that randomly outrageous.

The problem is random rewards for accomplishing the same things. For example:

Player A reads Player B's approach and pivot grabs him and tosses him offstage.
Spikes pop up during the backthrow animation and Player B takes 80 damage and gets tossed back into player A.
Player A throws out his frame 5 dsmash and player B dies for being pivot grabbed at 50%

or

Player A reads Player B's approach and pivot grabs him and tosses him offstage.
Player B takes a bit of damage, but recovers back to the fight.

If for example hazards show up with fair warning and THEN my opponent intends to throw me into them and succeeds, I got outplayed. If it was just dumb luck, why reward that so greatly?

How is this any more fair than a match on Warioware or playing with items on low?

I am aware this type of thing can happen on other stages, but there is a reason we call things excessively random. This looks like one of those things to me. Its a shame that so many stages with unique features have these other problems that ruin them competitively. I personally love the layout of WarioWare's platforms.

See my response to Grim. You can't assure a reward, but you can extend the odds.
Comparing with Items? Only if you know their possible spawn points.


EDIT
Direct response:
Player A tossed B offstage while stage was blank, and Side Spikes hadn't appeared before in the match. The odds of that happening were high, so it happened.
B threw A at random, the odds of Spikes happening might be high, might me none. In any case, B should be aware of them.

 

[Tesh]

You know the safe zone for item spawns is bigger than the safe zone on pictochat right?

WW would be pretty fair if rewards weren't that randomly outrageous.

This is exactly my point about pictochat. Single events from the stage can so easily change the game so drastically.

 

[T-block]

We have to consider two situations separately here.

Neutral positions:

When neither player is really on the offensive, and both are just zoning each other, we're in neutral positions. When in neutral positions, the safe zone is effectively THE ENTIRE STAGE. If your opponent is not directly applying pressure, it is perfectly reasonable to react to any hazard (this includes Missiles, Plant, Mine Cart, which can significantly affect the match). Really the only exception is Arrows (spikes protruding from the ground), which in my opinion becomes active fairly quickly - so there are four points in the air that are not safe in neutral position. The rest of the stage is fine as long as your opponent is directly pressuring you.

Non-neutral positions:

Yes, hazards could spawn randomly and allow your opponent to punish you harder than he would have been able to otherwise. However, if both players are playing carefully (respecting the stage), I guarantee that the number of times Pictochat majorly affects the outcome of a match will be surprisingly low. In an average 5-minute match on Pictochat, only 15 of the 27 transformations show up. That means we can expect only 2-3 damaging transformations in a 5-minute match. This damaging drawing has to appear WHILE your opponent is forcing you into unfavourable positions. Furthermore, for the hazards that could kill (Spikes, Mine Cart, Plant, Arrows), you have to be at KO percents for the effect to be major... otherwise it's just a bit of damage. I firmly believe that confirmation bias comes into play when most people judge Pictochat: when bad things happen, it sticks in their minds.

Tesh, you bring up Yoshi's Island as an instance of acceptable randomness. Do you really react to the ghost saving your opponent? If my opponent is free-falling to his death over where the platform spawns, I ALWAYS jump out after him, ready to hit him in case the platform decides to save him. Am I reacting to anything, or simply acting with knowledge of possible random events?

 

[Tesh]

Acting with knowledge of 1 possible random event in a very restricted part of the stage isn't anywhere near as difficult as 27 random events all over the stage.

Its just a matter of where you want to draw the line.

As I said before. I'm just basing it on what we already have banned.

How is this more fair than a restricted list of items on low? or WarioWare?

 

[-LzR-]

None of Picto's transformations really do anything.
Wario Ware is just ridiculous.

Learn to play in Picto like I did and then theorycraft and you'll have a whole different view of the stage.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

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This is an example of the concerns I think people are having, more so how DEHF lost his second and third stocks.

 

[BSP]

Yeah...the spikes randomly appearing while you have an opponent in a grab doesn't help. I don't think it's right to have a stage that can do that to you decide 1,000s of dollars.

I think the second kill was Espy just abusing the stage extremely well. The spikes were there, and he capitalized on it.

 

[Life]

On the third stock DEHF was at kill percent for uthrow anyway (I think).

The second kill is what people talk about when they say hazards add new options.

 

[T-block]

First of all, I'd like to draw attention to 4:20, when Espy shields the missile on reaction. Look at how much time you have before it actually explodes. DEHF's second stock can only be attributed to randomness in the same way PS1 can be said to affect the match randomly. Yes, you could say if the spikes weren't there, Espy might not have taken that stock, but in the same way you could say "if PS1 had chosen the grass transformation there instead of water, my opponent wouldn't have bounced off the windmill and survived". Both players had more than enough time to adapt to the presence of the spikes.

The third stock is unfortunate (although DEHF could have tech'd =p), but what if the third match had taken place on Yoshi's Island, and DEHF lands a d-air spike at third stock high percents, but the Support Ghost comes to save Espy? Espy then lands a f-smash or w/e and wins the game, when he should have died. And honestly, the ghost scenario is probably more likely to happen.

Acting with knowledge of 1 possible random event in a very restricted part of the stage isn't anywhere near as difficult as 27 random events all over the stage.

Its just a matter of where you want to draw the line.

As I said before. I'm just basing it on what we already have banned.

Very few of those are actually significant enough to matter though. Even so, would you be okay if Pictochat only had one drawing that appeared at random times then? What if there were only Spikes, and they appeared somewhat regularly (every 10-11 seconds, although there would be some random variance) and disappeared somewhat regularly, and always appeared in the same place?

 

[UberMario]

Actually, the major issue with the second stock is not Espy abusing it, it was the fact that DEHF was pummeling and the spikes just so happened to form in range. The third stock would have been an auto-kill pretty much if Sonic did an FThrow on him, tech-or-no-tech.

The difference between the Support Ghosts and the Pictochat transformations is simple: The SGs are likely to help you if you are recovering but will almost NEVER kill you (unless you're someone like Ness or Lucas), where as the PictoChat transformations are likely to kill you and almost NEVER help you when you are recovering. Helping the defender is not as detrimental as helping the person doing the offense, ESPECIALLY since, as you mentioned before, the aggressor could simply hover over the pit and finish the "saved" person, as (since they are most likely in a freefall state) will be almost completely defenseless, or at the very least easily pressured. The Pictochat transformations are tedious and can help finish off someone QUICKER than if they were not there, which is why they are worse than Yoshi's Island's dynamic features.

Port Town? Predictable, with the only randomness being the stage landing area, which do NOT have stationary killing points on them. (The cars can be seen in as little as two seconds in advance, and as many as six, plenty of time to get out of the way, which, considering the amount of safe zones on every stopping point, aren't as big of a deal as people make them out to be)

Norfair? The sprays always come at the same speed (andtakes two seconds to reach the stage), the lava walls come in VERY slowly and are nowhere near as lethal as Pictochat's features are.

Green Greens? The blocks are VERY DI'able, if you're hit by a falling bomb block and you're on the outside, you should still survive to 90% (roughly the point where being on the outside would kill you anyway), and if it knocks you toward the center, expect to survive to around 140%. The firewall glitch actually has less knockback, so even if it does occur, it's pretty much just putting a divider on the stage (WHICH can be gotten rid of by destroying all of the blocks on the gltiched side) And if someone doesn't air dodge through the area, they aren't doing it right. The blocks always fall in the same area, so throwing someone toward it is strategic, rather than truly luck. Apples are not a significant threat.

Distant Planet? The only thing the water does is make the "grassy" platforms better for battling than the slope (not to mention that it hinders the little circle camping it had to begin with). Seed Pods take a while to knock down and are very weak if used as soon as they spawn. To the point where most tilts are more likely to kill then they (the "1" seeds) are.

Pirate Ship? The bombs take two seconds to get to the stage AND you get to see the point they launch from VERY easily and way before they arrive. The catapult, rock, little boat, and tornado are virtually as good as fixed considering their beniign natures and large amounts of "startup lag".

Pokemon Stadium(s)? You get to see the transformations on the screen in the back several seconds in advance, and even then, they usually don't adversely affect the match anyway.

Frigate Orpheon? Large amounts of startup lag on the flips (which should NEVER kill you if you play it right)

Brinstar? Lava is the only thing, and you can see it rising in the background too.

Pictochat? Most attacks are longer than the transformation starting and ending sequences.



Also, I can name several characters that could be strongly harmed by thie Picasso transformation, most notably Olimar (can't grab the left side in any way), Marth, Diddy Kong (if he's charging just to the left and below the ledge, he's pretty much screwed), Zero Suit Samus (again, because she can't grab the left side), and the Star Fox characters (ESPECIALLY Wolf).

 

[T-block]

The difference between the Support Ghosts and the Pictochat transformations is simple: The SGs are likely to help you if you are recovering but will almost NEVER kill you (unless you're someone like Ness or Lucas), where as the PictoChat transformations are likely to kill you and almost NEVER help you when you are recovering. Helping the defender is not as detrimental as helping the person doing the offense, ESPECIALLY since, as you mentioned before, the aggressor could simply hover over the pit and finish the "saved" person, as (since they are most likely in a freefall state) will be almost completely defenseless, or at the very least easily pressured. The Pictochat transformations are tedious and can help finish off someone QUICKER than if they were not there, which is why they are worse than Yoshi's Island's dynamic features.

That difference certainly does exist. However, it's not clear that the difference makes Yoshi's Island better. Why is it somehow better for your opponent to be saved than for you to be killed by the stage? On the most basic level, they both accomplish the same thing - whether your opponent is saved or you are killed, the stock count is skewed one in your opponent's favour.

 

[UberMario]

That difference certainly does exist. However, it's not clear that the difference makes Yoshi's Island better. Why is it somehow better for your opponent to be saved than for you to be killed by the stage? On the most basic level, they both accomplish the same thing - whether your opponent is saved or you are killed, the stock count is skewed one in your opponent's favour.

Because if it has killer knockback, you can not save yourself (as you would most likely have if a randomly appearing obstacle wasn't there). If it saves you, the opponent can just finish you off a second time almost instantly after, if not at least rack up even more damage. The former makes the aggressor's job too easy, the other one only makes his job slightly harder. Not to mention, there are, on the most basic stance, 28 scenarios on PictoChat that could occur, whereas there are only two if a player falls next to Yoshi's Island's ledge. And to answer your other question (about the spikes), no, they would not make it better if they were the only transformation, because at that point, Pictochat would just be the equivalent of a lipless Final Destination containing match-stalling, pain-inducing walls. (Which would be as bad or worse, because it would simply make people try to predict wall locks by constantly initiating them until the transformation arrives).

If it weren't for the Picasso face, the knockback of the plant and fence, the fence in general, the odd properties of the bigger drawings, or the solidness of the wind-blowing face, I'd be as open toward this stage as I am to pretty much every other counterpick available right now, but that isn't the case. (Just like how WarioWare would probably be a viable counterpick option if the awards could be disabled, or a starter if it just stayed on the initial mode.)

 

[T-block]

You answer with "because...", but what follows doesn't really explain why it's better. When it comes down to it, your opponent was given a second chance when he should have lost his stock. Yes, you could just finish him off a second time, but if you're both at high percents, your opponent could just as easily be the one finishing you off after being given that second chance. I could say "Pictochat could kill you, but if you die to a hazard you were probably at KO percents, so your opponent would have killed you soon anyways", couldn't I?

By Spikes, I meant the spikes that appear at the sides off the stage, off the main platform, not the Arrows that protrude from the ground. Does that change your answer?

 

[UberMario]

You answer with "because...", but what follows doesn't really explain why it's better. When it comes down to it, your opponent was given a second chance when he should have lost his stock. Yes, you could just finish him off a second time, but if you're both at high percents, your opponent could just as easily be the one finishing you off after being given that second chance. I could say "Pictochat could kill you, but if you die to a hazard you were probably at KO percents, so your opponent would have killed you soon anyways", couldn't I?

Of course you could, but what takes more skill? To have the stage [out of chance, not out of actual predictability] help KO someone at as low as 80-90% when they would have survived to 150% normally, or to finish someone off again before they have the chance to fight back?

By Spikes, I meant the spikes that appear at the sides off the stage, off the main platform, not the Arrows that protrude from the ground. Does that change your answer?

Yes, because they are less intrusive on the map than the others that I noted for Picto.

 

[-LzR-]

Well you can like, not be where the spikes spawn and survive. Problem solved.

 

[T-block]

That's an unfair comparison.

"to have the stage help KO someone at as low at 80-90% when they would have survived to 150% normally" vs. "to be saved by the stage for falling at the correct position"

is what we should be comparing... neither one takes very much skill, and both are unfortunate incidents =\

 

[UberMario]

But even then, it takes more skill to win if your opponent is randomly saved than it does if your opponent is randomly screwed over.

 

[ぱみゅ]

But even then, it takes more skill to win if your opponent is randomly saved than it does if your opponent is randomly screwed over.

That..... Just doesn't even make sense.....

DEHF got grabbed at kill %s.
Even with that, he could DI downwards, tech and survive.

 

[Tesh]

The firewall glitch actually has less knockback, so even if it does occur, it's pretty much just putting a divider on the stage (WHICH can be gotten rid of by destroying all of the blocks on the gltiched side) And if someone doesn't air dodge through the area, they aren't doing it right.

You cannot airdodge through the glitch. It creates a solid wall that nothing will move through.

None of Picto's transformations really do anything.
Wario Ware is just ridiculous.

Learn to play in Picto like I did and then theorycraft and you'll have a whole different view of the stage.

I know how to play on Pictochat. I also know how to play on WarioWare, Corneria and Mario Circuit, but all the practice in the world doesn't make it fit for competitive play.

@ Tblock
You are basically pointing out that a legal stage already does something bad for competition by giving out free saves. Yet you want a stage that hands out freebies all over the stage all game in all kinds of situations.

Big deal Espy shielded a missle. We all know the hazards can be dealt with on the ground if you weren't already doing something. Just because the stage didn't ruin that match doesn't mean it doesn't ruin others. It CAN. I'm sure you could play with a restricted set of items on low and get the same effect as pictochat. Why isn't that legal? I bet the better player would still win on WarioWare most of the time, why isn't that legal?

Very few of those are actually significant enough to matter though. Even so, would you be okay if Pictochat only had one drawing that appeared at random times then? What if there were only Spikes, and they appeared somewhat regularly (every 10-11 seconds, although there would be some random variance) and disappeared somewhat regularly, and always appeared in the same place?

How exactly do very few of them matter? They can all cause things to go wrong because of how fast they draw in. Randomly popping up platforms can induce landing lag at unexpected times. Walls and ceilings can save lives and block committed movements. The platforms and springs on the sides of the stage save lives too.

And yes, maybe if the stage only had 1 tamer transformation (not the spikes) it would be a good legal stage. But unless you have some ideas for Bbrawl or Brawl plus or whatever, its irrelevant.

Your response to random events having a negative effect on competition is to add more random events. I'm asking you again, why not put some items back on? Why not play on WarioWare? You said these effects are okay right?

You say Yoshi's Island giving out free stocks is okay. You said Pictochat giving out free KOs is okay. Well why not a random gooey bomb popping up? You knew there was possibility of a gooey bomb popping up while you were jabbing. You got outplayed if it blows up and you die at 80%. What about invincibility from a star? Its not quite as good as pictochat blocking your opponent's recovery, but you can attack relentlessly for a few seconds at least (probably won't take an entire stock though).

So here is what he have.

We both say Yoshi's Island is okay.

I draw my line in the sand

You say Pictochat is okay

You draw your line in the sand.

Why didn't you give WarioWare a chance? Or items?

Honestly, tell me whats worse about a very tame set of items on low or WarioWare. Both arguably have less significant effects on a match.

 

[UberMario]

That..... Just doesn't even make sense.....

How so? Which requires more skill? To win when you have a Golden Hammer, or to win when your opponent manages to grab all of the Heart Containers? Obviously the latter, as it takes more skill to defeat a person that gets assisted than to be assisted in defeating a person.

You cannot airdodge through the glitch. It creates a solid wall that nothing will move through.

I meant when the blocks are behaving normally, I ended up placing the firewall glitch in between a sentence about the falling bomb blocks and another one explaining why those blocks are not an issue, which made the latter appear to be referring to the firewall, rather than what I was intending to refer to.

 

[-LzR-]

Pictochat has had no effect on the outcome of the match so far in tournament play in my area. I am aware of the places where bad hazards could appear from and how to abuse them to my own advantage.
Arguably, the groundspikes are kinda powerful, but you can be aware of them until they appear and then know they won't appear again.

 

[Steam]

I've played on Picto countless times and it hasn't ever decided the outcome of a match in my experience. and very rarely causes anything significant.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's affected me before. Me as Puff, opponent as Sonic. Losers finals, I used pound into a spike as it appeared and lost the match because of it.

 

[Ghostbone]

I've played on Picto countless times and it hasn't ever decided the outcome of a match in my experience. and very rarely causes anything significant.

The problem is that it can and has. (there are many videos of players getting randomly gimped by the line)

 

[-LzR-]

If the line hasn't appeared yet in the match and you are in the left side of the stage, wtf are you doing there?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Maybe... Getting hit there?