[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashBrosMike]

Ridley would be a no-win situation. If Ridley was resized, he would look pathetic. I look back at Melee's intro and think "that's the Ridley we could have gotten? Ehh..." It works better with taking tiny characters and making them bigger to fit in, but a character like Ridley only works if is porportions aren't ****ed with. Keeping Ridley big would be stupid. Here we'd have a huge target character. If his speed was left unchanged, then he'd be broken; huge power and great speed? No thanks. Or he'd be an inaccurately slow character, making him easy pickings; a slow as hell monstrosity.

So you even have Sakurai haters who hate on him for not putting a character that wouldn't work faithfully in, or Sakurai gets hate for putting him in and the fans wouldn't like what they got, which it must not be easy to give a 100% accurate Ridley with minor alterrations to fit in, and still work.

Let's call it what it is: Metroid has 0 characters worth using. Samus and Ridley...wow...that's...IT. This is why I keep pushing for those MPH bounty hunters (Sylux) to become major recurring characters. Sylux himself already has a story just waiting to be fleshed out.

Ridley would be still cool if he was resized. Not pathetic. Then how do you explain him in Melee's opening. So there. Have anything to say.

And who cares about size. It is in many games and it does not matter. So there.

 

[flyinfilipino]

True enough. The variety is awesome, but some of the little quirks are also stuff that I'm talking about. Everything from the unique counter mechanic of the bucket, to the air push effect on his Up Air. If you ask me, Game & Watch is Sakurai's movesets at their best, and it is goooooood.

Ah yeah, the little tweaks. I thought the air-push was a nice touch. Speaking of, what other tweaks do you think could be added to already existing moves?

If I had my way, Pikachu's Thunder Jolt would stun like Zamus's Paralyzer

 

[WolfCypher]

Ridley would be still cool if he was resized. Not pathetic. Then how do you explain him in Melee's opening. So there. Have anything to say.

And who cares about size. It is in many games and it does not matter. So there.

I JUST ****ing said in Melee's intro he looked pathetic! READ!

 

[SirKibble]

I, for one, thought he looked stupid in Melee's intro video...

But that aside, haven't we proved that he's actually quite large in that video? It's just the angle and the perspective that makes him look small?

@filipino: Barring the fact that Pika would probably be quite broken with that, it would be awesome. I think there need to be more element-based effects in Smash. Ganondorf has "Darkness" attacks, Lucario has "Aura" attacks, Pikachu's and some of the Mother boys' attacks have an electric effect, but... That doesn't do anything outside of looking cool. Stunning is good for Zamus, and most ice attacks can freeze... Fire attacks, um, can blow up Blast Boxes... Yeah, some work could be done there, methinks.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

I JUST ****ing said in Melee's intro he looked pathetic! READ!

God he doesn't look pathetic. He still looks cool. Also who cares if he is big. It is in many games and playable characters in games are huge compared to others. So there it can happen.

 

[kuro06]

If I remember the Review correctly he said he COULD make him a playable character but he would be rather slow..or something along those lines.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I, for one, thought he looked stupid in Melee's intro video...

But that aside, haven't we proved that he's actually quite large in that video? It's just the angle and the perspective that makes him look small?

@filipino: Barring the fact that Pika would probably be quite broken with that, it would be awesome. I think there need to be more element-based effects in Smash. Ganondorf has "Darkness" attacks, Lucario has "Aura" attacks, Pikachu's and some of the Mother boys' attacks have an electric effect, but... That doesn't do anything outside of looking cool. Stunning is good for Zamus, and most ice attacks can freeze... Fire attacks, um, can blow up Blast Boxes... Yeah, some work could be done there, methinks.

If someone were able to take really good quality, frame-by-frame screenshots, we'd be able to tell pretty well. (it's not canon anyway?)

I remember not knowing much about Ridley save for the Melee intro and then jumping into Metroid Prime. I was "whoa-ed" at his size in that game.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

So anything else to talk about. What about Samurai Goroh. He should stay as a Assist Trophy.

 

[flyinfilipino]

HA BEAT THAT! Guys like WolfCypher and others. IN YOUR FACE!

HA HA HAR HAR HAR!!!!

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Ridley would be a no-win situation. If Ridley was resized, he would look pathetic. I look back at Melee's intro and think "that's the Ridley we could have gotten? Ehh..." It works better with taking tiny characters and making them bigger to fit in, but a character like Ridley only works if is porportions aren't ****ed with. Keeping Ridley big would be stupid. Here we'd have a huge target character. If his speed was left unchanged, then he'd be broken; huge power and great speed? No thanks. Or he'd be an inaccurately slow character, making him easy pickings; a slow as hell monstrosity.

So you even have Sakurai haters who hate on him for not putting a character that wouldn't work faithfully in, or Sakurai gets hate for putting him in and the fans wouldn't like what they got, which it must not be easy to give a 100% accurate Ridley with minor alterrations to fit in, and still work.

Let's call it what it is: Metroid has 0 characters worth using. Samus and Ridley...wow...that's...IT. This is why I keep pushing for those MPH bounty hunters (Sylux) to become major recurring characters. Sylux himself already has a story just waiting to be fleshed out.

Ridley's wingspan is the only real killer that'd actually make him too big, that's the only thing they'd have to shrink out of proportion. Ridley can just be hunched over in his basic stance like Wolf is, and that's his usual pose anyway. Ridley's wingspan is the only thing that outright needs to be shrunk, and it would lead to some more unique special moves that make use of his size by him coming out of his little pose. Imagine an nair where he fully expands his wings, tail, and head to hit all around him in a massive powerful high priority hitbox. . .But is terribly slow and still has a couple openings. His wingspan, if it were kept at the huge size, could give Ridley an excellent recovery, but make him a gigantic target.

@Filipino: Well, why is it so much to ask that Sakurai make a moveset that's more different then his others? I for one would've liked to see more use of the Pikmin mechanic or Lucario with his aura or the IC's double feature. They're good mechanics, but aren't taken much advantage of. The Ice Climbers for example could have more moves that rely on them teaming up, or perhaps have a very powerful move that forces them to do so/KOs Nana.

@SirKibble: Sakurai has his good movesets, but they're few and far between. Mr. Game & Watch, King Dedede (Ignoring balance obviously) and Snake (Again...) are the only ones that really come to mind. . .

And just FYI, Sakurai said the thing about Ridley in a Nintendo Power interview, I actually have it. NP was very persistent in asking about Ridley, implying they're also fans of him.

Also. . .

I DON'T LIKE RIDLEY. THE ONLY METROID GAME I'VE PLAYED IS MP3.

I still regognize his deserving status and support him though. I actually want Smash to be an accurate representation rather then strictly a popularity (Lucario) and randomness (Retro/Shock, when shock chars have zero shock value especially) contest.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Ridley's wingspan is the only real killer that'd actually make him too big, that's the only thing they'd have to shrink out of proportion. Ridley can just be hunched over in his basic stance like Wolf is, and that's his usual pose anyway. Ridley's wingspan is the only thing that outright needs to be shrunk, and it would lead to some more unique special moves that make use of his size by him coming out of his little pose. Imagine an nair where he fully expands his wings, tail, and head to hit all around him in a massive powerful high priority hitbox. . .But is terribly slow and still has a couple openings. His wingspan, if it were kept at the huge size, could give Ridley an excellent recovery, but make him a gigantic target.

@Filipino: Well, why is it so much to ask that Sakurai make a moveset that's more different then his others? I for one would've liked to see more use of the Pikmin mechanic or Lucario with his aura or the IC's double feature. They're good mechanics, but aren't taken much advantage of. The Ice Climbers for example could have more moves that rely on them teaming up, or perhaps have a very powerful move that forces them to do so/KOs Nana.

@SirKibble: Sakurai has his good movesets, but they're few and far between. Mr. Game & Watch, King Dedede (Ignoring balance obviously) and Snake (Again...) are the only ones that really come to mind. . .

And just FYI, Sakurai said the thing about Ridley in a Nintendo Power interview, I actually have it. NP was very persistent in asking about Ridley, implying they're also fans of him.

Hmm I see, do you think King Dedede will return for SSB4, Warlord?

I really hope so.

 

[SirKibble]

@Mike: Dedede will return. Have no fear about that.

*sigh*

Went and found it...quoted by someone on NSider, at least...

NP: There was a rumor at one point about Ridley being playable. Was that ever a consideration?

Sakurai: I think that would probably be pretty impossible. [Laughs] If we had to put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that be all right? [Laughs]

EDIT: Warlord, you've got this entire thing? Mind sharing? I thought I remembered more than this, but this is all I could manage to dig up anywhere...

 

[flyinfilipino]

@Filipino: Well, why is it so much to ask that Sakurai make a moveset that's more different then his others? I for one would've liked to see more use of the Pikmin mechanic or Lucario with his aura or the IC's double feature. They're good mechanics, but aren't taken much advantage of. The Ice Climbers for example could have more moves that rely on them teaming up, or perhaps have a very powerful move that forces them to do so/KOs Nana.

Almost every move basically boils down to smacking your opponent with something. Something could be done with Olimar and maybe Lucario in the future. Why would Popo wanna KO Nana?!

Also, that doesn't sound like the interview I was thinking of...were there two occasions where he was questioned about Ridley? And when was that interview done?

 

[SirKibble]

Also, that doesn't sound like the interview I was thinking of...were there two occasions where he was questioned about Ridley? And when was that interview done?

There could be... And I still don't know.

*is not very helpful*

 

[IGN Forums]

Shadow & Bowser Jr For Ssb4

 

[MasterWarlord]

. . .I wish I could, Kibble. I'm a long-time NP subscriber, so I'd have to dig through issues endlessly to find that thing.

Things I remember about it: NP asked about Ridley for at least 2 or 3 questions, making no mention of any other characters throughout the interview. Basically that first asked if ie he was going to be in the game, then if Sakurai could've made him.

This was also the same interview were Sakurai claimed that all characters were in the game but Sonic by mid 2007 (I forget exact date, don't kill me), despite evidence we have now that Wolf was the last character added into the game.

Nothing else was that important, although apparently Sakurai made figurines and posed them to illustrate how he wanted his characters to move to the animators/programmers. Either Sakurai's not good with words, or the programmers/animators are brain dead.

Edit: It was the issue just before Brawl was released in the US, IIRC. Might've been the issue after it was, not sure, but I think it was before.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Bowser Jr For Ssb4

Anybody have any ideas for his moves which don't involve a paintbrush/Shadow Mario?

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Shadow & Bowser Jr For Ssb4

Shadow will most likely not. A Third Party Series never has more then 1.

So Third Party Series only gets 1.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Anybody have any ideas for his moves which don't involve a paintbrush/Shadow Mario?

Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

B: Paint Brush/Goop - Bowser Jr. takes out his paint brush and spreads paint giving characters damage./Shadow Mario shoots out goop giving a Character damage.

Up B: Paint Copter/Vaporize - Bowser Jr. spins in the air with his paint brush and twirlds around paint like a helicopter./Shadow Mario will dissappear and then appear again.

Side B: Homing Shell/Paint Balls - Bowser Jr. takes out a Koopa Shell and throws it and gives damage to those who gets hit by it./Shadow Mario shoots out a bunch of balls of paint that goes every direction and will give damage to Characters if hit by them.

Down B: Transform - Bowser Jr. will turn into Shadow Mario. If Shadow Mario he will turn into Bowser Jr.

Final Smash: Graffi Pollution - Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario will laugh like a crazy brat and then take out his paint brush and spread tons of paint and goop all over the stage giving Characters a lot of damage.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Anybody have any ideas for his moves which don't involve a paintbrush/Shadow Mario?

Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

B: Paint Brush/Goop - Bowser Jr. takes out his paint brush and spreads paint giving characters damage./Shadow Mario shoots out goop giving a Character damage.

Up B: Paint Copter/Vaporize - Bowser Jr. spins in the air with his paint brush and twirlds around paint like a helicopter./Shadow Mario will dissappear and then appear again.

Side B: Homing Shell/Paint Balls - Bowser Jr. takes out a Koopa Shell and throws it and gives damage to those who gets hit by it./Shadow Mario shoots out a bunch of balls of paint that goes every direction and will give damage to Characters if hit by them.

Down B: Transform - Bowser Jr. will turn into Shadow Mario. If Shadow Mario he will turn into Bowser Jr.

Final Smash: Graffi Pollution - Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario will laugh like a crazy brat and then take out his paint brush and spread tons of paint and goop all over the stage giving Characters a lot of damage.

*facepalm*

 

[SmashBrosMike]

*facepalm*

Oh of course you want it to be fully huh?

Sorry.

 

[SirKibble]

Lol, he said moves that don't involve the paintbrush or Shadow Mario.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Lol, he said moves that don't involve the paintbrush or Shadow Mario.

Yeah.

I hear his name thrown around a lot, but so far haven't seen much moveset potential that can be derived from games he's appeared in besides SMS (not that he can't have a few).

 

[Nick The Potato]

So anything else to talk about. What about Samurai Goroh. He should stay as a Assist Trophy.

Ya! subject change!
I want him as a playable charecter actually.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Ya! subject change!
I want him as a playable charecter actually.

Well I think he should stay as an assist trophy. The F-Zero series should have two characters playable in SSB4 and that second F-Zero character should be Black Shadow. Because he fits better and is a another Nintendo Villain that should be in. After all Black Shadow is Captain Falcon's Arch Enemy.

Like to Mario's is Bowser

Donkey Kong's is King K. Rool

and Link's is Ganondorf.

 

[MasterWarlord]

If sword characters such as Marth, MK, and Ike can have their moveset nearly use nothing whatsoever but their sword (I think that's actually the case for the FE chars), why can't Jr. use his paintbrush for the majority of his moves?

If you want moves that don't involve SMS:

Down B - Withdraw: Bowser Jr. hides in his shell, skidding forward a bit if he was running when you used the button input. If you hit his spiked shell, you'll take 11-12% damage and above average knockback, this being a good KO move. This has perfect priority. No starting lag, but bad punishable ending lag. This can also absorb projectiles, but isn't very practical for this due to the ending lag.

Side B - Koopa Shell Toss: Jr. throws a shell that basically works like Squirtle's side B, only able to have out one at a time. You can charge it to make the shell have more momentum. Is somewhat laggy to use at all, meaning charging it is quite troublesome.

^Both from NSMB. I admit the side B is meh, but I like the down B. Both made in 60 seconds.

Also, while this involves SMS, a decent idea for his FS if you don't want to make him a unique moveset for his transformation is Shadow Mario. Make him be an invulnerable Mario Clone with high knockback/speed, possibly using a few of Bowser Jr.'s moves that involve his paint brush instead of Mario's.

 

[WolfCypher]

Meh. F-Zero characters don't stand out enough to have more than one rep. At least CF has the whole "I'm the main character" thing going to warrant his status in the Smash games. Who the hell cares about the other racers? 9x outta 10 you're seeing the cars themselves than the racers. Most of their histories, personalities, and stories are just tacked on to try and force thses drivers into being...ya know...relevant, when in reality, much like Wipeout, the characters and their lifestories don't matter.

Miyamoto just felt there should be "faces" behind the true main characters...the cars. Since there had to be a poster boy, CF was chosen.

In other words...I personally see no reason why F-Zero would ever get another playable rep unless something was really done in the lives of the characters.

 

[SirKibble]

Yeah.

I hear his name thrown around a lot, but so far haven't seen much moveset potential that can be derived from games he's appeared in besides SMS (not that he can't have a few).

Well... There's Mario Strikers Charged. The sound waves from his high-pitched screaming could shrink other characters there... I suppose that could be a possibility. Taking from that could also possibly be his dodge/block, which... Crap... Would be a lot like Bowser's Down B, more than likely.

I'd like to see him, honestly, though as far as Marioverse characters go, I've got a soft spot for the Baby Bros., though I know their chance is slim.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Meh. F-Zero characters don't stand out enough to have more than one rep. At least CF has the whole "I'm the main character" thing going to warrant his status in the Smash games. Who the hell cares about the other racers? 9x outta 10 you're seeing the cars themselves than the racers. Most of their histories, personalities, and stories are just tacked on to try and force thses drivers into being...ya know...relevant, when in reality, much like Wipeout, the characters and their lifestories don't matter.

Miyamoto just felt there should be "faces" behind the true main characters...the cars. Since there had to be a poster boy, CF was chosen.

In other words...I personally see no reason why F-Zero would ever get another playable rep unless something was really done in the lives of the characters.

Well if the F-Zero series gets a second character. It should be Black Shadow.

He's more popular then Samurai Goroh after all and Goroh should just stay as an assist trophy.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well, since people say Krystal shouldn't use her staff because she only used it in one game....

*not Spadefox bait*

Good ideas all around though.

 

[WolfCypher]

Fine. I'm not even against another F-Zero character TBH, as much as I'm against...other character inclusions...If there absolutely must be another character from F-Zero, so long as their moveset makes sense and is not an exaggerated blueprint of CF, then let it be Black Shadow. Who is really the only other character from F-Zero that is worth a ****.

F-Zero has a large cast, and only 2.5 characters are worth mentioning: CF, Black Shadow, and Samurai Goroh. Sucks.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Fine. I'm not even against another F-Zero character TBH, as much as I'm against...other character inclusions...If there absolutely must be another character from F-Zero, so long as their moveset makes sense and is not an exaggerated blueprint of CF, then let it be Black Shadow. Who is really the only other character from F-Zero that is worth a ****.

F-Zero has a large cast, and only 2.5 characters are worth mentioning: CF, Black Shadow, and Samurai Goroh. Sucks.

WTF F-Zero is awesome!!!

 

[flyinfilipino]

WTF F-Zero is awesome!!!

Opinions Opinions

also reading comprehension, he was talking about characters

 

[SmashBrosMike]

Opinions Opinions

Yes I know, opinions.

 

[Nick The Potato]

Meh. F-Zero characters don't stand out enough to have more than one rep. At least CF has the whole "I'm the main character" thing going to warrant his status in the Smash games. Who the hell cares about the other racers? 9x outta 10 you're seeing the cars themselves than the racers. Most of their histories, personalities, and stories are just tacked on to try and force thses drivers into being...ya know...relevant, when in reality, much like Wipeout, the characters and their lifestories don't matter.

Miyamoto just felt there should be "faces" behind the true main characters...the cars. Since there had to be a poster boy, CF was chosen.

In other words...I personally see no reason why F-Zero would ever get another playable rep unless something was really done in the lives of the characters.

You obvoisly havent seen the latest F-zero game.
IMO every franchise should get at least 3 charecters, unless it's a franchise with only like, 1 charecter. (Kinda like Pikmin, since...His buddies moveset would be basically the same. Always up for and alt costume of every charecter to though. (Wolf should stay.))

 

[SirKibble]

WTF F-Zero is awesome!!!

Too bad we can't use awesomeness as a factor for character inclusion.

It's kind of subjective.

Although despite that, I think we'd certainly have more Mother characters if awesomeness was a factor.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Revelation Time:

I would rather see Krystal then Ridley.

Doesn't mean I see that happening or that's what should happen.

I'd love to see her use the staff. Using an item that only appeared in one game is fine if that's one of the more iconic items of the character, which is the case for Krystal and Bowser Jr. My Cortex and Tiny moveset (Not that they have any chance in hell obviously) makes heavy use of one of Tiny's appearances in a single game.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Revelation Time:

I would rather see Krystal then Ridley.

Doesn't mean I see that happening or that's what should happen.

I'd love to see her use the staff. Using an item that only appeared in one game is fine if that's one of the more iconic items of the character, which is the case for Krystal and Bowser Jr. My Cortex and Tiny moveset (Not that they have any chance in hell obviously) makes heavy use of one of Tiny's appearances in a single game.

UGH EYES BURN FROM REVELATION

Yeah, I suppose. The right time would've been in Brawl though for either of those to happen.

If you want to see it, why deny yourself the pleasure of wanting it? It only makes you miserable

 

[WolfCypher]

Too bad we can't use awesomeness as a factor for character inclusion.

It's kind of subjective.

Although despite that, I think we'd certainly have more Mother characters if awesomeness was a factor.

Oh so very true, about Mother.

Why are you the only one I can mostly agree with? (Besides Nick the Potato's statement about Wolf returning for SSB4. That $h!t ring tru).

 

[Giga Pichu]

It seems plausible that in SSB4, EVERY series will get 1 more character. IMO. (not including classic chars, obvious 1 only's, or 3rd parties)