[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Fatmanonice]

Why?

Why do I want Geno? Mainly because I believe he is a very unique character, he's from my favorite game of all time, and he's my favorite video game character. Is there a problem?

Add in:

Also, after going through your posts, I've come to conclusion that not only are you extremelly biased but you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

1. Geno is not generic. Generic would something like a goomba, boo, octorok; something that is common and have very little different between the various individuals. Yoshis could be called generic, pokemon could be called generic. Geno is not generic. Geno is a possessed wooden doll who has the arsenal of a small army. How many times has this come up in Nintendo games? The answer is none making your claim false.

2. Geno is not a spell caster. Geno attacks consist of using various weapons like the finger shot, arm cannon, and star gun. His special attacks mostly consist of a lazers (Geno Beam and Blast), a whirling disc (Geno Whirl), and one where he transforms his body into a cannon to fire an energy blast (Geno Flash).

3. Super Mario RPG is very popular. It has been in the top 5 best selling VC games for the past four months for all three major regions (North America, Europe/Australia, and Japan). Super Mario RPG sold about 2 million copies when it was first released in 1996 which absolutely dwarfs the sales of Kid Icarus and Ice Climber if you want to rant about his "obscurity." Both of these points debunk your statement that Super Mario RPG is "virtually unknown" as well. Don't even get me started on the sheer number of people who had been begging for years for a true sequel or re-release before a few months ago.

4. Nintendo does care about Super Mario RPG. It is credited in Brawl despite being a third party game and not having any references aside from a few attacks like Peach's frying pan.

5. Super Mario RPG is Nintendo. Square Enix developed the game but the premise is still Nintendo and was only released on the SNES.

6. Geno had multiple entries in the first "Show Me Your Moves" as well as the second. Your join date is July 2008, my is July 2006. Keep in mind that this site existed before you joined.

7. People did care about Geno and a lot of people still do. Go to the old Brawl character discussion board and dig up the old Geno discussion thread. It had more more views and posts then any other of the character support threads.

Once you respond to this, I'll explain to you why I believe Geno should be playable in the next Smash Bros.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Geno can certainly do more than just cast a few spells. He can turn into a cannon, shoot lasers, shoot off his fists, and I think even turn his arm into essentially a machine gun...?

Why am I trying to defend him? I haven't even played Super Mario RPG and think that he isn't terribly likely... but he's not a generic spellcaster person, I assure you.

...I think...

 

[Kal]

@Kal:
WILL YOU PEOPLE FINALLY SHUT UP?! Seriously, it's so effing annoying that you "competitive players" whine in EVERY possibility about how Brawl is not Melee. Well, no crap, it's guess what: Another game!

Seriously, cut it out! Accept what you have and don't mourn.

Lawl, there are so many things wrong with your moronic post.

First, and foremost, it's just as annoying when you always respond with "Brawl is not Melee; it's a different game KEKEKE."

Hey, genius, I don't care. I don't need Brawl to be Melee in order for it to be good. In fact, it just needs to be worth competing in. Starcraft, Super Street Fighter II: Turbo, Soul Calibur 4, and SSB64 are all games that are not Melee, yet they're all worth competing in. So stop making baseless assumptions; it's obvious to anyone with ANY objectivity that Brawl isn't worth any real competition, and this is evident by the designer's idiotic take on how games should be made. Hence, my desire is for the sequel to be competitive.

Further, telling me to accept what I have, as if I'm in denial (are you an idiot?), is ridiculous. I know what I have, and I'm not just going to decide "I like Brawl's ****ty lack of hitstun, lack of decent approaches, ****ty roster, poor character balance, attempted character balance through limited usefulness in movesets, how powerful of a strategy camping is, and the lack of room for technical improvement." Don't act as though I'm somehow in denial of the truth solely because I have a stance you don't agree with.

Let's be realistic here. The topic asks "what do you want from SSB4?" Where, in posting what I want, did I cross the line? It's you who needs to "FINALLY SHUT UP;" the player who blindly accepts what he's given and fails to even attempt to rationalize his way towards whether or not Brawl is worth playing. At least my stance on whether or not Brawl is good has some basis.

 

[unest_guy]

Those Are The Characters I Hope They Be In The Next Smash Bros Seris


Nintendo:

1-Mario

2-Luigi

3-Peach

4-Daisy

4-Bowser

5-Bowser.jr

6-Yoshi

7-Birdo

8-Wario

9-Waluigi

10-Link

11-Zelda/Shiek

12-Ganondorf

13-Toon Link

14-Kirby

15-Metaknight

16-King Dedede

17-Samus/Zsuit

18-Ridley

19-Donkey Kong

20-Diddy Kong

21-Dixy Kong

22-King K. Rool

23-Ness

24-Lucas

25-Pikmin & Olimar

26-Marth

27-Ike

28-Captain Falcon

29-Black Shadow

30-Fox

31-Falco

32-Krystal

33-Wolf

34-Leon

35-Ice Climbers

36-Mr.Game & Watch

37-Pokemon Trainer Ash ( Squirtle-Ivysaur-Charizard )

38-Pokemon Trainer May ( Mudkip-Grovyle-Blazken )

39-Team Rocket ( Mewoth-Arbok-Weezing )

40-Pikachu

41-Lucario

42-Deoxys

43-Mewtwo

44-Marril [ Replace Jigglypuff ]

45-Pit



Capcom:

1-Megaman

2-Ryu

3-Guile

4-Vega

4-M. Bison



Sega:

1-Sonic

2-Tails

3-Knuckles

4-Shadow

5-Blaze the cat

6-Dr. Eggman



Square Enix:

1-Cloud

2-Sephiroth

3-Tifa

4-Vincent

5-Sora

6-Riku


Other Ones:

1-Bomber Man

2-Solid Snake

3-Goku

4-Naruto

5-Crash Bandicoot

 

[teen-robot]

i'd love to see andross from starfox
but he would be tooooooo huge Dx
so wha about andross With abody?

so i made him one xd
rofl yay

 

[Red Arremer]

6. Geno had multiple entries in the first "Show Me Your Moves" as well as the second. Your join date is July 2008, my is July 2006. Keep in mind that this site existed before you joined.

Join Date =/= Date since I've visited and know of this site.

I've been around this forums lurking since 2006, know of it even longer, as well. I just didn't join. Don't assume I'm a LAWLNUB 'cause I haven't decided to join until recently.
Your argument, though, is the first halfway acceptable reason to why Geno could be considered being in a possible Smash sequel.

It's you who needs to "FINALLY SHUT UP;" the player who blindly accepts what he's given and fails to even attempt to rationalize his way towards whether or not Brawl is worth playing. At least my stance on whether or not Brawl is good has some basis.

Look. In every thread about Brawl which is opened, someone comes in and says how bad Brawl is and how good Melee was. I grant you that Melee was maybe better (that's all personal opinion, though). I like Brawl, I know about the dephts of all 3 Smash games, and those fighters you named, as well. I have played competetively a lot (even though I didn't win), have hosted several tournaments (both Melee and Brawl, btw). So I guess I know a little bit about Smash. And that I'm getting pissed of people who mourn about how Brawl sucks so much and how Melee was sooooo much better is their own fault. There's the Brawl complaint thread. I don't even visit it because I know there are sure a lot of people like that in there. Then there's the Brawl+ hacking threads. Same about my absence there.

Brawl has a lot of lacks, sure, and I can see a lot of mistakes, but I don't see how I'm - because I enjoy that game - a "blind player". Still, nobody has answered my question why having more opponents (since the game is easier to pick up) is less competitive. I see that as a huge benefit in competitive gaming. I agree with you on character balance, and that it may not seem to be too good for competitive players at first glance, but honestly, I doubt that it's absolutely not competitive at all. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be competitions, right?

All I want is that the "omg bralw iz for nubs, mele iz btter cuz it haz wevdasing!" people to finally quit posting in every possible thread. That's all.

 

[gantrain05]

i don't know, im thinking maybe lack of hitstun actually makes you THINK about what you are going to do next because you can't just memorize combos and know that oh hey, once i hit with this first move i have a gauranteed combo on you so deal with it, (falco's pillar combo) im sorry, but slower pace does not mean a game is less competetive, camping is NOT the best strategy, if you can't get around that your a noob. and a bigger roster does make the game more competetive because it gives the competition more options which makes the game deeper(granted each individual character isn't as deep as the melee counterparts), the only thing that truly takes away from it is the god**** tripping.......most people are just simply angry that all their fancy L-cancels and wavedashing was taken away and they type on these forums in a furious rage and somehow thinks that this is going to solve anything......well guess what its not, so lets just stop the melee vs brawl thing and accept that brawl is a competetive game, because it is no matter what your logic is you cannot deny the existence of competitions.

 

[Kal]

Look. In every thread about Brawl which is opened, someone comes in and says how bad Brawl is and how good Melee was. I grant you that Melee was maybe better (that's all personal opinion, though). I like Brawl, I know about the dephts of all 3 Smash games, and those fighters you named, as well. I have played competetively a lot (even though I didn't win), have hosted several tournaments (both Melee and Brawl, btw). So I guess I know a little bit about Smash. And that I'm getting pissed of people who mourn about how Brawl sucks so much and how Melee was sooooo much better is their own fault. There's the Brawl complaint thread. I don't even visit it because I know there are sure a lot of people like that in there. Then there's the Brawl+ hacking threads. Same about my absence there.

Brawl has a lot of lacks, sure, and I can see a lot of mistakes, but I don't see how I'm - because I enjoy that game - a "blind player". Still, nobody has answered my question why having more opponents (since the game is easier to pick up) is less competitive. I see that as a huge benefit in competitive gaming. I agree with you on character balance, and that it may not seem to be too good for competitive players at first glance, but honestly, I doubt that it's absolutely not competitive at all. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be competitions, right?

All I want is that the "omg bralw iz for nubs, mele iz btter cuz it haz wevdasing!" people to finally quit posting in every possible thread. That's all.

First of all, the thread asks what we want in SSB4. So I'm not going out of context when I say I want it to be worth competing in, unlike Brawl. You getting upset, or frustrated, or whatever it is you call your reaction, is equivalent to getting upset at someone who posts "I want to see Master Chief" or "I want to see Ganon with a sword." It's a legitimate request, and since we're explaining what we want in a SEQUEL to Brawl, it makes perfect sense to explain what we dislike about Brawl and what we want to be in its sequel.

Further, if you think a game having people competing makes it worth competing in (i.e. having a large competitive scene makes the game deep), then you're an idiot. Arguing that a game needs to be competitive in order to have competitions is most definitely fallacious; look at Monopoly or Rock-Paper-Scissors. Neither one is worth competing in, but there are tournaments for them.

If you can't see why there are tournaments for games not worth playing, then you're just as scrubby as the rest of the Brawl community. When it comes down to it, the game was going to have a huge competitive scene before it was even out. It was hugely hyped, and all of the Brawl n00bs were complaining about how Melee was too difficult for them.

When you argue "people compete in Brawl, hence it's competitive," you're using the broadest definition of "competitive," and using a different definition of "competitive" than the one players are using when they claim Brawl isn't competitive.

 

[Red Arremer]

If you can't see why there are tournaments for games not worth playing, then you're just as scrubby as the rest of the Brawl community.

If you don't like the Brawl community, then, why the hell are you staying in it?

Also, why are you calling me an idiot all the time? Way to disable yourself from being taken seriously in a discussion.

 

[Kal]

What makes you think I'm a member of the Brawl community anyway? The Smash community isn't only composed of Brawl players.

 

[Red Arremer]

You're posting in the Brawl section. That's reason enough for me to make that assumption.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Sorry still new at this. I'll fix it... if I can... Let me see...

Did it, but now i can't delete. Dang it...

The Multiquotes are there for you.

Thanks, i've got it now...

 

[Kal]

You're posting in the Brawl section. That's reason enough for me to make that assumption.

Oh, so if I post on the Street Fighter forum, I'm suddenly part of the Street Fighter community?

Anyway, this thread doesn't pertain to Brawl necessarily. Posting in it hardly implies I'm a member of the Brawl community.

Not only that, but supposing I am a member of the Brawl community, how does that invalidate my points at all? Notice that your point (which doesn't even directly address my post) was merely "if you dislike the community, why are you in it?" It's just a strawman, and not really relevant at all.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Those Are The Characters I Hope They Be In The Next Smash Bros Seris
7-Birdo

B-B-Birdo? O.o No. Just... no. I'll give her the fact that she has gained some, errrm, "popularity", but she's nowhere near important enough to be playable in Smash, methinks.

9-Waluigi

No. NonononononoNONONO. Waluigi is an unimportant character that has only shown up in spinoffs. Maye if he gets his own game or shows up in the Wario series somewhere, but as of now he is just... NEVER... going to be playable. Well, unless Sakurai says so, but...

10-Link

11-Zelda/Shiek

12-Ganondorf

13-Toon Link

Why come no new Zelda characters? D:

19-Donkey Kong

20-Diddy Kong

21-Dixy Kong

22-King K. Rool

Maybe this is just me, but I don't think the DK series really needs two new characters. I'd say just put in K. Rool, personally.

26-Marth

27-Ike

No new Fire Emblem characters...? O.o

30-Fox

31-Falco

32-Krystal

33-Wolf

34-Leon

...Um, why would Star Fox be bumped up to five characters? This makes even less sense if you consider that you left Zelda at four... Star Fox is a small series. And Leon will never, ever be playable. Seriously. >___> Why would he, exactly? He's less important than, say, Slippy. And we ALL know he'll never be playable.

37-Pokemon Trainer Ash ( Squirtle-Ivysaur-Charizard )

38-Pokemon Trainer May ( Mudkip-Grovyle-Blazken )

39-Team Rocket ( Mewoth-Arbok-Weezing )

...Someone has obviously never played the Pokemon games. Or something like that. T_T
I'll give it to you straight... I really, really doubt that another Pokemon Trainer-type character will be added since it would take away from Pokemon Trainer's originality. Also, more importantly, POKEMON TRAINER IS NOT ASH. PERIOD. >_> <_<

44-Marril [ Replace Jigglypuff ]

Umm... why? Why would they replace Jigglypuff, and WHY with Marril? I don't get this at all, really... Sure, I guess Marril's a popular Pokemon, and a semi-good-ish rep for 2nd gen, but I can't see Jiggglypuff being replaced or Marril being playable. :/

Oh, and at this point I will say that I don't think you added enough new series. :/ Oh, and I think I can sum up the below areas with simply "We will NEVER EVER EVER have that many third parties, ok?" But I'll go over them assuming that we have some sort of minute chance of getting that many third parties. 'Cause I'm bored.

Capcom:

1-Megaman

2-Ryu

3-Guile

4-Vega

4-M. Bison

...Um, why so many Street Fighter characters? Seriously, WHY? Ryu I can understand, but Capcom has SO MUCH MORE. Specifically Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Phoenix Wright, Viewtiful Joe, maybe Zero (Mega Man gets duplicate characters before Street Fighter, ok? ), and, most importantly, PHOENIX WRRRRRIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTT. *ahem*

Sega:

1-Sonic

2-Tails

3-Knuckles

4-Shadow

5-Blaze the cat

6-Dr. Eggman

Ummm... I guess this isn't too bad, but I think that if Sega was going to have more than one character that they wouldn't all be Sonic characters. And Amy would be in long before Blaze if you ask me.

Square Enix:

1-Cloud

2-Sephiroth

3-Tifa

4-Vincent

5-Sora

6-Riku

Why does Square Enix, of all companies, get six reps? The heck? I'm not to up to snuff on my Square Enix, so I can't comment too much on this, but I do know that those are Final Fantasy characters (well, and Kingdom Hearts) and I think that something more akin to the generic characters from Mario Hoops 3-on-3 are more likely.

Other Ones:

1-Bomber Man

2-Solid Snake

Ok, this section is fine so far...

3-Goku

4-Naruto

5-Crash Bandicoot

MY EEEEYYYEEES. MY MIIIIND. NONONONONONONONONO!!! Seriously! Sakurai even SAID that there would be NO MANGA/ANIME CHARACTERS! And, quite frankly, there should never ever ever ever ever be a character in Smash who didn't originate in a video game.
As for Bandicoot, I really don't think he is even moderately close to notable enough, especially since characters like Simon Belmont and Pac-Man are existent.

Ok, I'm done now. If I offended anyone with any of the above comments I assure you that it was unintentional.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Why has unset_guy chose 4 Final Fantasy VII characters?
There are more games in the series than that one, and more important characters too.
Why haven't you picked characters like WoL, Firion, Cecil, Bartz or Terra?
Why characters from the same game?
And finally, why no Viewtiful Joe or Phoenix Wright?

 

[Linkshot]

I agree at no Manga/Anime. Also, more Konami representatives: Django.

Sega could put NiGHTS in and Aiai.

I want SOME sort of Meteos rep in SSB4. Even just a stage or AT.

Seriously, he didn't put Geno in for Square, and neither Mallow. I don't think any characters that never had their own game on a Nintendo system will get in.

Maybe WiiWare reps? Toku from LostWinds would be cool.

New Zelda rep could be Tetra.

Back to no Anime: Ash does not at all belong in Brawl. May, MAYBE. I'm all for Pokemon Trainer Blue, though (Vaporeon Jolteon Flareon). Deoxys would be cool.

Maybe Mona or Kat & Ana for Wario rep.

Another Pikmin rep would be awesome, but there just isn't anything.

I'd like Birdo in, actually.

Bowser Jr would rock.

I'll shut up for now.

 

[gantrain05]

terra from FF VI, i mean it originated on the SNES, and then remade on the GBA and now isn't it coming out for DS? i'd say an FFVI character could happen, but probably not any other SE characters.

 

[Skyshroud]

Your argument, though, is the first halfway acceptable reason to why Geno could be considered being in a possible Smash sequel.

How is this not blatant bias? You did not refute any of his points, yet his argument is only "halfway acceptable".

 

[Jimnymebob]

terra from FF VI, i mean it originated on the SNES, and then remade on the GBA and now isn't it coming out for DS? i'd say an FFVI character could happen, but probably not any other SE characters.

What about Cecil though, his game has been on the SNES, GBA, and DS?
Weren't all the original games (I-VI) on the S/NES? They've all been remade on GBA, and two of them on the DS.
I think that some of the enemies or generic characters like Black Mage should have more of a a chance than main characters though.
Sora and Geno should get a chance, just so I can understand what all the Geno hype is about.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Oh, so if I post on the Street Fighter forum, I'm suddenly part of the Street Fighter community?

Anyway, this thread doesn't pertain to Brawl necessarily. Posting in it hardly implies I'm a member of the Brawl community.

Not only that, but supposing I am a member of the Brawl community, how does that invalidate my points at all? Notice that your point (which doesn't even directly address my post) was merely "if you dislike the community, why are you in it?" It's just a strawman, and not really relevant at all.

dont argue with Spade, he is the mighty, and he doesn't afraid of anything

 

[Red Arremer]

dont argue with Spade, he is the mighty, and he doesn't afraid of anything

Learn your own language before acting like a ******.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Tone it down guys; if insulting each other on the Internet really means that much to you, take it to PMs, where you can go hog wild.

In other news...King K. Rool as a boss for SSB4

 

[notftomearth7]

In other news...King K. Rool as a boss for SSB4

If Ridley was a brawl boss, why the heck not?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Learn your own language before acting like a ******.

lol you bashing me again? why D:...i dun do nofin to j00


By the way, you should know by now, that i obviously PURPOSELY don't spell things correctly and use poor grammar as a joke...

plus "he doesn't afraid or anything" is a SWF joke....come on man, get with it

 

[Kal]

Didn't that joke start on GameFAQs from a post about Masterchief?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Didn't that joke start on GameFAQs from a post about Masterchief?

you may be right, first time i heard it was here...suppose i should have said that, Spade will kill me now because i forgot...**** im stupid


/wrist

(btw this sarcasm is not pointed at you Kal, just in case you think it is ;D)

 

[Red Arremer]

I may have not got your purposed n00b-behaviour and trolling, but I'm not THAT dumb, m'kay?

 

[smaci92]

my 1 and only wish: that they improve online play...

 

[Kal]

you may be right, first time i heard it was here...suppose i should have said that, Spade will kill me now because i forgot...**** im stupid


/wrist

(btw this sarcasm is not pointed at you Kal, just in case you think it is ;D)

Lawl, I love GameFAQs. My account on GameFAQs is linkkhalid89. I'm in Mura's GameFAQs combo video. My part's hilarious.

 

[Darky Dee]

Why has unset_guy chose 4 Final Fantasy VII characters?
There are more games in the series than that one, and more important characters too.
Why haven't you picked characters like WoL, Firion, Cecil, Bartz or Terra?
Why characters from the same game?
And finally, why no Viewtiful Joe or Phoenix Wright?

1. Final Fantasy VII raised the bar in the gaming industry, Cloud also being second most popular character behind Mario, and third by Yoshi, and fourth by Snake. Why there was four of them? Beats the **** out of me.

2. Don't know about more important ones, they all seem equal. But the previous reason explains Cloud's exception.

3. Same reason as number 1.

4. Dunno, lol.

5. If you really think about it, Viewful Joe and Phoenix Wright haven't haven't developed as much notoriety as Megaman. Megaman is the best Capcom candidate. Also, I think I've read around that Inafune was more than willing to lend Megaman, but he did not receive a call from Sakurai. Perhaps it was due to time constraint issues since it already seemed that Sonic was very rushed.

 

[TheWaft]

 

[Jimnymebob]

I don't know why I didn't put Megaman, he's my most wanted 3rd party with Bomberman being a second.
I also just realised that my last post consist entirely of questions XD.
Has Cloud appeared on the Nintendo apart from cameos?

 

[gantrain05]

1. Final Fantasy VII raised the bar in the gaming industry, Cloud also being second most popular character behind Mario, and third by Yoshi, and fourth by Snake. Why there was four of them? Beats the **** out of me.

2. Don't know about more important ones, they all seem equal. But the previous reason explains Cloud's exception.

3. Same reason as number 1.

4. Dunno, lol.

5. If you really think about it, Viewful Joe and Phoenix Wright haven't haven't developed as much notoriety as Megaman. Megaman is the best Capcom candidate. Also, I think I've read around that Inafune was more than willing to lend Megaman, but he did not receive a call from Sakurai. Perhaps it was due to time constraint issues since it already seemed that Sonic was very rushed.

the actual reason behind no capcom characters i believe was a deal with capcom over resident evil, i think they made a deal that all new resident evil games were to only come out on nintendo consoles and capcom broke the agreement and created games for sony, so i think nintendo was a little pissed at capcom around the time of brawls development.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't know why I didn't put Megaman, he's my most wanted 3rd party with Bomberman being a second.
I also just realised that my last post consist entirely of questions XD.
Has Cloud appeared on the Nintendo apart from cameos?

He only appeared in that horrible Kingdom Hearts game for the GBA. Otherwise, I wouldn't know of him appearing on any Nintendo console.

 

[Jimnymebob]

He only appeared in that horrible Kingdom Hearts game for the GBA. Otherwise, I wouldn't know of him appearing on any Nintendo console.

Ahhh... That's what I thought.

 

[Darky Dee]

the actual reason behind no capcom characters i believe was a deal with capcom over resident evil, i think they made a deal that all new resident evil games were to only come out on nintendo consoles and capcom broke the agreement and created games for sony, so i think nintendo was a little pissed at capcom around the time of brawls development.

I think it was just Resident Evil 4. I can't imagine the Resident Evil series being a Nintendo exclusive game. It was tacky on Capcom's behalf on not holding their side of the bargain, but they're all adults, I can't imagine them holding grudges against each other.

After all, if it was that case, Capcom would basically tell Nintendo to go screw themselves and not give them the Wii Edition and Umbrella Chronicles, and Chop till you Drop.

He only appeared in that horrible Kingdom Hearts game for the GBA. Otherwise, I wouldn't know of him appearing on any Nintendo console.

By then, he would probably re-appear in Kingdom Hearts: 385/2 Days as well, making his second apperance on a Nintendo console.

 

[Fatmanonice]

How is this not blatant bias? You did not refute any of his points, yet his argument is only "halfway acceptable".

That's not my whole arguement though. Why should Geno be considered viable?

1. Super Mario RPG was the first platform game that was developed by a third party that Nintendo played a role in. Square Enix developed the game and some of Nintendo's big-wigs like Shigeru Miyamoto played decent roles in the development process. This is a pretty significant event, why? It's because, before this time, Nintendo was very protective of it's first party franchises and the only ones they had allowed were games on the PC developed by Phillips (which helped developed the technology for the N64 and the PS1 but that's another story). After this game, Nintendo opened up a lot during the N64 era. For example, Hudson Soft developed the Mario Party games and Treasure developed Sin and Punishment. This expanded even further during the Game Cube era when games like Star Fox Assualt (Namco), DK Jungle Beat (also Namco), F-Zero GX (SEGA), Legend of Zelda the Minish Cap (Capcom) and Mario Hoops 3 on 3 (Square Enix) came about. As you can see, this was a significant event in Nintendo's history especially when the company now has very close ties with companies like SEGA and Hudson.

2. Originally, when Brawl was announced at E3 06, there was an offical poll that was released and we thought that this played a role in which characters got in. Later on, when Brawl actually came out, we found out this was the truth... in the form of cameos, that is. At GDC 08, Sakurai announced that all of Brawl's playable characters (except for Sonic), had been decided within three days after Iwata pitched the idea at him at E3 05; a whole year before the poll even came out. What does this have to do with anything? I'll tell you...

Upon this discovery, it was then noticed that most of the characters that became playable in Brawl were some of the most popular choices that didn't make it into Melee. Here are the poll results from the Melee poll:

Super Mario series

(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8 Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8 Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

Pocket Monsters series

(1) Mewtwo: 35
(2) Mew: 24
(3) Satoshi (main character): 18
(4) someone from Pokemon: 12
(5) Lugia: 11
(6) Nyarth: 8 (Meowth)
(7) Raichu: 7
(8 Maril: 5
(8 Fushigidane: 5 (Bulbasaur)
(8 Togepy: 5

Legend of Zelda series

(1) Ganon (including Ganondorf): 36
(2) Young Link: 8
(2) Princess Zelda: 8
(2) Sheik: 8
(5) Darunia: 2

Kirby of the Stars series

(1) Great King Dedede: 46
(2) Gooey: 17
(3) Meta Knight: 11
(4) someone of Kirby's comrades: 10
(5) Waddle Dee: 3

Mother series

(1) Dosei-san: 18 (Mr. Saturn)
(2) Poo: 6
(3) main character of Mother 2, etc: 4 (Earthbound)
(3) Paula: 4
(5) Starman: 3
(5) Jeff: 3

Star Fox
(1) Falco: 7
(2) Slippy: 5
(3) Wolf: 4
(4) Peppy: 2

Fire Emblem series

(1) Marth: 21
(2) someone from Fire Emblem: 18
(3) Oguma: 8
(4) Celice: 4
(5) Siglud: 2
(5) Leaf: 2

related to the Rare company

(1) 007 James Bond: 35
(2) Banjo & Kazooie: 18
(3) Diddy Kong: 15
(4) Blast Dozer robot (nothing specific): 2 (Blast Corps)
(4) 006 Trevelyan: 2

various Famicom / Super Famicom forces (NES / SNES)

(1) Sukapon (Joy Mecha Fight): 15
(2) Lip (Panel de Pon): 9
(3) Prince Richard (The Bell Tolls for the Frog): 8
(4) Metroid (Metroid series): 6
(4) Blacky (Wrecking Crew): 6 (Spike)
(6) Pit-kun (Parthena's Mirror): 5 ((Kid Icarus))
(6) main character of Shin Onigashima: 5
(6) main characters of Marvelous: 5
(9) Samurai Goroh (F-ZERO): 4
(9) Popo & Nana (Ice Climber): 4
(9) main character of Balloon Fight: 4

these are non-Nintendo forces

(1) Chocobo: 9
(2) Doraemon: 7
(3) Bomberman: 5
(4) Crash Bandicoot: 4
(5) Sonic: 3
(5) Rockman: 3 (Mega Man)

Pay attention to the people I highlighted in green and look at their rankings compared to the people who actually made it in Melee. Now, this just leaves Snake, Ike, Olimar, Lucario, and ROB. In 2003, Hideo Kojima (creator of the Metal Gear series) said that he wanted Snake to appear in Melee but developed was too far along to include him. Ike represents the most recent Fire Emblem game as of July 2005, Path of Radiance. Lucario represents the most recent generation of pokemon and was introduced about three months before E3 05. Pikmin was the only new character based Nintendo franchise to premiere on the Gamecube and was the only Miyamoto franchise not represented yet and, like Game and Watch in Melee, ROB was one of Sakurai's "WTF" characters to confuse the crap out of everyone.

Why should I care about Melee, we're talking about Brawl!?! I'm getting to that. Anyways, Sakurai released a public journal that had 290 entries showing off his and his staff's favorite entries that he updated on the site for about a month after Brawl was announced. Most of these entries consisted of characters that people wanted to see and these were the most noteworthy characters:

1. Geno (5 entries)
2. King Dedede (5 entries)
3. Ike (4 entries)
4. Diddy Kong (4 entries)
5. Ridley (4 entries)
6. Krystal (3 entries)
7. Captain Olimar (3 entries)
8. Toon Link (called "Cat eyed Link" in the journal) (3 entries)
9. Takamaru (3 entries)
10. Megaman (2 entries, the only third party character besides Geno that was mentioned more than once)

Again, notice the highlighted characters and where they rank. Five of these 10 characters ended up becoming playable while the rest, except Megaman, were referenced in some form (Super Mario RPG was credited, Ridley was a boss, Krystal had multiple cameos and Takamaru was a sticker). Now notice how highly the characters that Sakurai's team had already picked ranked. What does this say exactly? It shows that Sakurai and his staff favored these characters even when some of them had already made the cut.

Now take what I said earlier about the Melee poll and something will become decently clear: if there is another Smash Bros game, the characters that didn't make it from this list will more than likely be first pick for the next game. Sakurai said at GDC 08 that the characters were the first things that were decided because they took up so much of the development time so, naturally, to save time like he did with Brawl, he'd look back to help him with the picking process. As the Brawl poll showed, many of the characters that had been popular 5 years before were just as popular when it was time to make the sequel.

I'll add more to this later because it is a lot to read and I'll be back with the other parts later.

 

[BKupa666]

K.Rool and Isaac were on that journal too, you know. They had 2 votes. And Geno had 4 votes, not five.

That means Sakurai is likely to choose Ridley, Krystal, Geno (if he can snag the third party rights), Takumaru as a WTF character to some, Megaman (if he can get rights from Capcom, which won't be hard, as they have said before that Nintendo could ask them to include him), and K.Rool and Isaac (whose popularity will probably rise by the time there is another poll, and they could still be picked off this one).

 

[Red Arremer]

Okay, I believe you. You don't have to post more. From the developer side, Geno seems likely. Even though I still think he's a horrible character, but that's really personal opinion.

So, you win. I grant you your victory.

 

[Darky Dee]

K.Rool and Isaac were on that journal too, you know. They had 2 votes. And Geno had 4 votes, not five.

That means Sakurai is likely to choose Ridley, Krystal, Geno (if he can snag the third party rights), Takumaru as a WTF character to some, Megaman (if he can get rights from Capcom, which won't be hard, as they have said before that Nintendo could ask them to include him), and K.Rool and Isaac (whose popularity will probably rise by the time there is another poll, and they could still be picked off this one).

No, Fatmanonice was correct, Geno had five journal mentions.

Ridley was already in there as a boss. I still think that size matters despite Olimar realistically being the size of a nickel. Squirtle/Ivysaur/Chairzard/Pikachu/Jigglypuff/Lucario also being a factor. I don't think the Pokedex intends for all Pokemon of the same species to be the exact same size even though it has the weight and size of all Pokemon. Olimar doesn't have to be compared to another character from the same game like Ridley would to Samus.