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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Fatmanonice

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Exactly, it seems to me that not only is he not paying attnetion to newer game releases he also doesnt enjoy the whole third party thing. He can have any numbers to any major gaming company at any hour of the night. Yet he still only let Snake in, because he was begged to get in and Sonic because nintendo either pushed him to or made him.

If he makes the next smash bros alone, with no partner, then i suspect we should see very few changes to how the rosters are going to look. Only Pikmin was the realitly new franchise that got character representation. Asides from WarioWare. So maybe a few new franchises, one or two more retro characters and MAYBE one new third party.
Well, with Brawl, Pikmin being the only "new" franchise added was understandable because it was the only new console franchise introduced during the Gamecube era that didn't tank spectacularly (ie; see Geist and Odama). It was also the only major Miyamoto franchise that didn't have a playable rep yet either.

There probably will be a lot of new franchises in SSB4 simply because, in comparison, the wells have just about run dry for the major franchises. Mario, Zelda, Yoshi, Pikmin, and Kirby are complete as far as most fans are concerned, Metroid, Star Fox, Wario, and DK are debatable when it comes to whether they "need" any more reps, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber, ROB, Game and Watch, and Mother are all technically dead franchises, most people believe that third party franchises will never have more than one rep each, and Fire Emblem and Pokemon will no doubt be represented by at least one new person from the latest title.

Well if he had limited interests, that wouldn't really explain why he let Star Fox get all the way to three characters. If he didn't know much, or care to know much about a series, it woudn't make sense that he would give it one new character with each game.
That's one of the reasons I believe Sakurai was paying more attention to the Melee poll results than current wishes when it comes to Wolf getting into Brawl despite, arguably, Krystal slightly beating out Wolf when you put all the regions into consideration. Also, he's never really said about having any particular interest in Star Fox and, truth be told, the only still going franchises he seems to care about are Fire Emblem and Metal Gear Solid.
 

Pieman0920

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^What about the Kerbeh series?

Actually, what makes you say Fire Emblem? I can understand MGS, since he's friends with Kojima, but do you say FE because of the whole Roy thing? From what I hear, Yamauchi kind of insisted that Sakurai put in the new lord for FE. as and advertisement, though I don't know how valid those claims are. (Either way, I wouldn't think Roy's inclusion would show that Sakurai has a special interest in the series, since Leaf, Celiece, and Sigurd could all have been put in easily enough as clones. )

Also looking back at the Melee poll results you posted, Wolf didn't get that many votes at all. Slippy got more votes even. How exactly could factors like that be the major force behind Wolf's inclusion?
 

ToiseOfChoice

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I thought Sakurai's love for FE was pretty well known, especially since Iwata let him take over for the FE11 Iwata Asks. And I would assume the more obscure series show up because he's genuinely interested in them.

Also I've never seen any statement that confirms Roy was forced upon Sakurai by NCL or anything. Technically doesn't make sense either, they could give a crap about Smash characters outside of legal stuff and FE has never been high on their priorities list. Plus that time where Sakurai said nobody gets in without his approval.


When I check this thread tomorrow, people better be talking about new voices for certain characters like Bowser and Samus. OR ELSE.
 

Pieman0920

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I don't think the voices of Samus or Bowser really mean anything. Bowser had a voice in Sunshine, but he didn't start talking (or even grunting) with it in Brawl. Heck, he had an evil laugh in SM64, and that didn't show up at all in Melee. Samus also won't be talking unless she's ZSS, and the voice isn't that much different from the one she had in Brawl anyways.

He actually stated that he liked FE in Iwata Asks? I don't quite recall that. Either way I suppose the claims that higher ups forced Roy upon Sakurai is fairly dubious, and in the end it probably is just a rumor, but Roy's inclusion still is a bit funky given that in Melee he was a pure advertisement. While characters like Lucario or Ike can be argued to be ads for their latest games as well, there was at least a fan base. Going by the data, they weren't even sure what Roy's name was for a time, since he was labeled EMBLEM there. (May not have been the last character though or anything, since its possible the FE6 team hadn't finalized a name at the time either) The fact that Sakurai tried to use Smash as a way of blatently promoting a new game without any pretense of nostalgia, and didn't try to make a repeat performance of it in Brawl though does strike me as odd.
 

Big-Cat

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I don't think the voices of Samus or Bowser really mean anything. Bowser had a voice in Sunshine, but he didn't start talking (or even grunting) with it in Brawl. Heck, he had an evil laugh in SM64, and that didn't show up at all in Melee. Samus also won't be talking unless she's ZSS, and the voice isn't that much different from the one she had in Brawl anyways.
The time Melee came out brought us Jen Taylor as Peach instead of Leslie Swan. It's possible that the voice changed from Isaac Marshall to some one else for Bowser.

I just hope they have the current Bowser actor for the next one. He does a good job.

As for Samus, Jessica Martin and Elesia Glidewell sounds very different from each other, at least subtly. It's hard to tell, but Martin does Samus with a softer voice. Mind you, though, that Glidewell gave only a few lines in the first place. I still want to see Samus at least grunting while in her suit. Canon already shows us that she can be heard talking in it. I just found it strange in Brawl that, despite giving her a voice, they opted out for robot Kenny instead for Power Suit Samus.

I can't think of anyone else right off the bat for someone who has had a change in actors post-Brawl.
 

Pieman0920

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As for Samus, Jessica Martin and Elesia Glidewell sounds very different from each other, at least subtly.
sounds very different
:psycho:

Anyways, going through a bit of research, I am fairly surprised to find out that Bowser's noises in Smash actually do come from a voice actor. What surprises me even more, is that in Mario Kart 64, where I always assumed the vocal style of Smash Bowser originated from, was actually done by a different person.

But as you said, the current actor for Bowser is pretty good. Especially in M&L3. Would be nice to see Smash Bowser say "Showtime" or something to that effect.

Anyways in regards to Samus, I think that even with her more vocal nature in Other M, she still won't talk in her regular suit if she still has the Zero Suit. Can't help but feel that Sakurai will try to make the two more distinguished through that, but then again, what do I know about that.

Also, I think Marth may have voice issues, in that he may have an English voice next time. Though he doesn't have an actual voice actor in Shadow Dragon, I was always under the impression that he was still speaking Japanese in Brawl due to the fact that he was Japan only at the time.
 

Shorts

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Where are these poll results for melee? Can someone give me a link?

And does anyone know where to find the japanese poll results for brawl?
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Where are these poll results for melee? Can someone give me a link?

And does anyone know where to find the japanese poll results for brawl?
Hope you can read Google Translate. If you dig around you'll find a poll for most popular SSB64 characters.

The second thing you asked for was never publicly available. There's a list of "characters mentioned multiple times in emails to Sakurai that were posted on his blog," which a lot of people seem to think counts as a poll.


People probably shouldn't be looking too into these anyway, they really have no direct bearing on what Sakurai does.
 

Big-Cat

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I was noticing that contradiction. What I meant that there are only a few differences that ironically make the voices very different.

Anyways in regards to Samus, I think that even with her more vocal nature in Other M, she still won't talk in her regular suit if she still has the Zero Suit. Can't help but feel that Sakurai will try to make the two more distinguished through that, but then again, what do I know about that.
I'm not talking about her talking while in her suit, at least not much. I was talking about grunts and such.

Also, I think Marth may have voice issues, in that he may have an English voice next time. Though he doesn't have an actual voice actor in Shadow Dragon, I was always under the impression that he was still speaking Japanese in Brawl due to the fact that he was Japan only at the time.
Hopefully, Nintendo will be smart to give us the option to have English and Japanese voices, preferably per character.

He was probably speaking Japanese because he was Japan only at the time (despite having an old OVA in the US prior to Melee). Maybe he'll have an English one this time.
 

Fatmanonice

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Voice actors? Personally, I liked how Zero Suit Samus sounded and I've grown to like all the character voices in Brawl aside from Pit. (Even though more than two years have passed, his voice is still hard to tolerate.) I've asked before but the question usually was quickly buried but should Marth keep his Japanese voice in the next game or should they have an English one too given how by the time SSB4 rolls around, he'll have two games in English under his belt.
 

Shorts

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After readin the old polls i was wondering if you could personally tell sakurai five votes for new characters and give him a reason for your vote who would you pick?

(Your vote would weigh heavy on who gets in ssb4 so think hard on your five!)

*Only one third party*

I would choose:
Bowser Jr: Because even though marios franchise is basically covered, bowser Jr. is just a layer of icing on the cake. And who doesnt love frosting? :p

Suicune: She could represent all five Gold/Silver/Crystal games, and the whole second series.

Hero of Magical Vacation: It just seems like a cool franchise

Capt. Syrup: She is both a female, and a villain!

Cassandra of SC: She is one of my favorite charcters in the SC series. And when i think of Soul Caliber, i think of Mitsurugi, Nightmare, Ivy, Cassandra, and Taki. And nintendo and SC have already had a cross over :)
 

Pieman0920

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@Kuma: You mean grunting ala how Samus would grunt when hit in the Prime games? I suppose that would work, but as I said, Sakurai may want to make the two different by having those sort of things seperate.

@Fatman: I think he probalby should get the English voice, though as Kuma said, it would probably be best if people could choose between the two voices.

Anywaaays, I learned a bit more about FE12 today in that it has been redesigned to appeal more to casual fans with several new features for the Fire Emblem franchise. One such thing is that it now has a create-a-character type feature where it turns out Marth was helped out by some type of "shadow hero" who history forgot to record. Thus FE12 has a second main protagonist, but its not really a concrete character. Thus I must wonder if said character could be a pottential candidate for Smash 4. (Just to say though, I don't find it likely) Also, here are the default versions of both the male and female version of it.



 

BBQTV

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just so you know the kirby voice actor for brawl and melee is the same.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Thought there were more characters with new voices I was thinking about, maybe not. The Zelda/Star Fox cast updates might've thrown me off or something.

Anyway, I'm hoping the following characters would probably get new voices:

Bowser - most of you know how this one sounds, and it's 500 times better than the weird MK64 grunts he makes in Brawl. Think it helps that Nintendo's been pretty consistent with his voice lately.

DK+Diddy - actual gorilla/monkey noises are alright, but I like these ones better, ESPECIALLY DK's in Jungle Beat. Suppose this is a little less likely since they should've been there by now, though I always thought Bowser's would be present in Brawl too. Also wondering how Dixie and K. Rool would sound if they didn't use their current voices (which I assume none of you have heard before).

Samus - I'm mostly abstaining from Other M stuff so I've only heard her voice in one trailer and I liked it. Brawl ZSS had some terrible grunts but okay speaking parts, would hope that the new girl can do a better job.

Everyone else I'm okay with, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Zelda updates or English Marth (or English Mewtwo if he came back, or English Roy if they made one).


Voice actors? Personally, I liked how Zero Suit Samus sounded and I've grown to like all the character voices in Brawl aside from Pit. (Even though more than two years have passed, his voice is still hard to tolerate.) I've asked before but the question usually was quickly buried but should Marth keep his Japanese voice in the next game or should they have an English one too given how by the time SSB4 rolls around, he'll have two games in English under his belt.
I thought Pit's voice was fine, for the grunts anyway. ZSS was the only character whose grunts I've never gotten used to (especially in comparison to how she sounded in the Primes). Maybe it's just me, I've always focused more on those noises rather than the spoken dialogue, probably since most of the latter always sounds bad from everyone.

English Marth depends on how good of a VA they get. If they try it, hopefully they get someone who at least sounds similar to his Japanese voice. Would be weird for a little bit though.


@Pieman: Afro Eyepatch Guy for SSB4 son
 

Big-Cat

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DK+Diddy - actual gorilla/monkey noises are alright, but I like these ones better, ESPECIALLY DK's in Jungle Beat. Suppose this is a little less likely since they should've been there by now, though I always thought Bowser's would be present in Brawl too. Also wondering how Dixie and K. Rool would sound if they didn't use their current voices (which I assume none of you have heard before).
I'm curious as to why they weren't in in the first place.

Samus - I'm mostly abstaining from Other M stuff so I've only heard her voice in one trailer and I liked it. Brawl ZSS had some terrible grunts but okay speaking parts, would hope that the new girl can do a better job.
We haven't seen too much of Other M other than a gameplay trailer from a while back. Are you not interested in the game or saving yourself from spoilers?
Everyone else I'm okay with, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Zelda updates or English Marth (or English Mewtwo if he came back, or English Roy if they made one).
At this point, I only see Ganondorf and maybe Link getting new actors. I still want to see Nobuyuki Hiyama come back as Link. Any time I fought Batsu in TvC, I couldn't help but think of Link. Then try watching Guren Lagann in Japanese when Viral talks.

English Marth depends on how good of a VA they get. If they try it, hopefully they get someone who at least sounds similar to his Japanese voice. Would be weird for a little bit though.
Dub voices don't need to sound similar to the original necessarily. Compare Romi Park's Edward Elric to Vic Mignogna's (sp?). The two sound nothing alike yet both are loved equally.

The voice needs to capture the "essence" of the character. Sometimes, there are multiple ways of doing it.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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One of these days you kids will remember that I don't watch anime or play other fighting games. Don't doubt that someone else could do Marth just fine though. Also I like TP Link's voice way better than OoT Link.


And yeah, I generally try to avoid media from things I'm really interested in since it always lessens the impact for me when I first watch/play it. When this game is announced I'll probably have to stay away from anything gaming related on the internet.
 

kadabori

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megaman

hmm mega man does sound good but would
remind me to much of samus.
of course samus has to be in the forth one she is in all 3.
they need some one new.
no one that is raw as meta knife but no one
that sucks horrible like jiggs and ganon.
 

Cyn

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It wouldn't be any different than normal.
But why add anymore than is already in there? Just good hit sound effects would be good enough for me. Make contact sound real. Make a punch sound like a punch. That is my only gripe with the sound.
 

Big-Cat

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One of these days you kids will remember that I don't watch anime or play other fighting games. Don't doubt that someone else could do Marth just fine though. Also I like TP Link's voice way better than OoT Link.
You never really mention either, aside from criticizing my gameplay ideas.

I'm okay with the current Link voice; I have a lot more memories with OoT Link however.

But why add anymore than is already in there? Just good hit sound effects would be good enough for me. Make contact sound real. Make a punch sound like a punch. That is my only gripe with the sound.
Why should Samus like a robot when she's in her power suit?
 

Big-Cat

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Her voice is robotic? Or her suit makes robotic sounds? If her voice is robotic than yes that should change, otherwise, who cares?
It's hard to explain, but listen to how Samus sounds when she star K.O.'d. It's almost like a machine's screaming, not a woman. I don't want to see that again.
 

KnuxMaster

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It needs to have Knuckles, it just does. Nintendo is smart, they can make a game containing a whole lot of characters. That way the ratio is still the same.

They have more characters in the franchise of
Mario
Zelda
Pokemon

and the rest is small compared to them. So add more 3rd-party characters. Knuckles. I'm just saying. Knuckles.

KNUCKLES
 

Pieman0920

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No need for Knuckles. No need for a third party series to get more than one character. Though I don't mind getting two characters from one company as long as they are from different series. (An example would be Snake and Simon Belmont, or Ryu and Mega Man.) Also no anime characters edg.

Anyways, I don't think its that off putting that Power Suit Samus would make more robotic sounds, though if they changed it to a real voice, I wouldn't particularly care.
 

Shorts

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Shorts

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Okay Guys,

*this is something i want everyone to read!*

So i think we should all make some guidlines on what it takes for a character to be smash bros worthy. So we all can have the same basic guidlines when discussing "whether or not toad is worthy to be in smash" So Toise, Kuma, Pieman, and Arcade, will you give me what you think are some general needs for a character to be discussed. Like maybe how popular a character should be, what games they were in, how many games they were in ect.

I had a lot more to say but unfortuenetly i forgot it all :/

Ill edit when it comes back to me!
 

Big-Cat

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If I was in charge, this is how I would decide the characters. Not all characters will necessarily fall under all of these.

1. The character is popular.
* Measuring popularity to some standard would be difficult. If the character has a cult following, it will be considered.

2. The character brings something new to the table.
* If the character brings about a new style that can be adapted to the game, it will be considered. For example, let's say we have Vanille from Final Fantasy XIII. Vanille's main role in the party is the Saboteur where she degrades the stats and abilities of monsters (ie. poison, paralysis, decrease in strength and defense). We have nothing like this in the SSB series, so if there's a Nintendo character with these abilities or something similar, it would be considered.

3. If the character is not the main protagonist of his or her series, the main protagonist must be present to be included.

4. Past experiences in fighting are not required.
* No need to limit ourselves.

5. Regional popularity is irrelevant.
* What matters is how popular the character is around the world. The sole exception are Japanese-exclusive characters.
 

Ievan_Polkka

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I'd have similar rules to those of KumaOso if I could choose the rules, but I'd still have some differences. I think they should be something along the lines of this:

1. Obviously popularity is one of the greatest factors. If there are lots of people that have been hoping this character would get in since before SSBB was released, then said character should be considered. Also characters that have been gaining popularity recently and have had big roles in recent games get a big bonus in this category. But old characters with big followings like Geno are not out, since they still have enough popularity. And some characters can still be considered even with low popularity if they would be a truly great addition. (Vague I know, but use common sense.)

2. The character should have a new and non-lame moveset. Characters like Toad have been wanted for a long time, even before melee was released, but can anyone come up with a moveset for him that won't just make him seem like a generic character? If not, then his chances are slim.

3. If the character is not the main character from his/her series, and the main character is not included, or some other, similar, yet obviously better character isn't going to make the cut, then said character will not make it in. E.g., Olimar should not be replaced with Louie with removing Olimar completely. And for the second part, an example would be that Mewtwo is better than Alakazam, so if Mewtwo doesn't make it, then neither will Alakazam, since Mewtwo is so similar yet obviously better.

4. Honestly I'd say a character had better have been in at least 2 games to make it in, but I must admit this is not a guarantee, as some characters that have only been in 1 game, such a Geno, still have a chance. But a character that's only in one game better have at least as much of a role in it as Geno did in his one game.

5. A third party series should not have more than one rep without a very good reason. E.g. I vote for no knuckles, tails, shadow, etc. And any third party character that has no ties with Nintendo better have something insanely epic about him/her to be considered.

6. A character must have something that will make at least some players feel excited to play as that character, or a feature that just feels epic. This can be pretty much anything and almost any character with enough popularity and that satisfies number 2 should easily meet this. Even "has an axe" or "can cast earth spells" is acceptable for this.

7. A character should not already be in use by another character in a way such that it'd be very bad for the other character to lose the new character. E.g. sorry Waddle Dee, Waddle Doo, Gordo, Nana, etc., but they're not going to be added as new characters on their own. Peach's B could be replaced with Toadette or Toadsworth I guess, but it seems Toad has a lot of strikes against him, but he's still not out.

8. The character should not be hated in Japan or he/she is pretty much out.

9. A character that's playable in ways such as grabbing a metal box, mushroom, smash ball, or other item should not be playable. E.g. Metal Mario, Giant DK, and Super Sonic are out.

10. Any character that has been in 20 or more games non-third party games and has a reasonable amount of popularity automatically can be considered.

But, in the end, it'll just be people try to bring up characters they want, and if said character is not worthy, not enough people will care to discuss the character so he/she will fail that way; these guidelines are unlikely to be followed.
 

Fatmanonice

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Well, the guidelines I use are:

1. The character should have enough characteristics that set it apart from other characters. If the character can simply be added into the game as a re-color like the in the case of Peach---> Daisy and Olimar---> Louie, they shouldn't be considered. (Luigi is exempt because he has been a leading character since the Mario franchise's beginning.)

2. The character should play a leading role in whatever game they are a part of. The main categories I generally use are hero/heroine, sidekick, and villian. They should be decently involved in the plot in at least one game. If the game doesn't really have a plot, they should be playable or have a very strong tie to the main character.

3. The character shouldn't be generic like in the case of common enemies and most pokemon. Yoshi and Pikachu are exempt from this because they have starred in a decent number of games. Even if a character is nearly indistinguishable from the others of its kind, you should be able to readily identify it. (For example, the green yoshi is "Yoshi.")

4. The character should have the basic anatomy to fully fuction in Smash Bros without being completely awkward or out of character. This means, for example, they should have hands (or a proper substitute) for grabs (both as an attack and to hold onto ledges) and be able to do things like run and jump without looking completely ridiculous.

5. The character shouldn't have to be overly nerfed or buffed in order to work in Smash Bros. For example, if the character can easily be killed in one hit or, to the other extreme, destroy entire planets with little effort, they shouldn't be considered for Smash Bros.

6. The character shouldn't simply be a variation of an already existing character. For example, fire Mario and Fusion Suit Samus. For most cases with this, you can simply refer back to number 1.

7. Popularity doesn't have to be a factor but it can certainly help.

8. Being available to all regions is better than being a region exclusive.

9. If the character is third party, the franchise should have had a decent impact on Nintendo or at least gaming in general. The character should also be the star of their own franchise.

10. Sakurai's rule for idiots #1: The character has to be an original video game character. No anime characters, no cartoons, no mascots, no celebrities, etc.

11. Sakurai's rule for idiots #2: The character has to have appeared on a Nintendo platform at sometime in their "career." Cameos do not count unless they are playable ones.

12. Relevancy doesn't have to be a factor but it can certainly help.

13. The character should bring something to the table. Although there have been a few cases where characters have been built from the ground up, it is preferable that they have material to work with.

14. If the character is not the leading character, they shouldn't have priority over the main character and shouldn't be considered unless the main character is already in the game. (For example, adding Protoman before Megaman.)

15. For third parties, one character per franchise.
 

Pieman0920

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I'd say that popularity, ability to fight in game/ability to have a unique playstyle, and relevancy all can basically be thrown under "Doesn't need to have, but helps" in terms of predicting if the character will be playable. Someone who lacked all three traits though I would doubt very much.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Okay Guys,

*this is something i want everyone to read!*

So i think we should all make some guidlines on what it takes for a character to be smash bros worthy. So we all can have the same basic guidlines when discussing "whether or not toad is worthy to be in smash" So Toise, Kuma, Pieman, and Arcade, will you give me what you think are some general needs for a character to be discussed. Like maybe how popular a character should be, what games they were in, how many games they were in ect.

I had a lot more to say but unfortuenetly i forgot it all :/

Ill edit when it comes back to me!
1. Character needs appeal. Sakurai described this as "making people want to play the game." Means non-fans can fall in love with this character. Extra important because the majority of characters in Smash come from series that aren't as well known as Smash itself. Note that it doesn't mean "popularity" or "familiarity;" unknown characters have a history of becoming famous just by appearing in Smash. Sakurai knows this, that's why he doesn't just cram the roster with the most well-known characters.

2. Character needs to be able to function in Smash. Sakurai described this as "fitting the style of Smash Bros." Means they have be physically capable of doing stuff like grabs, picking up items, grabbing ledges, etc. (so no Tetris blocks or Mr. Saturn). Also means no pacifists (which is Sakurai's reason for no playable Animal Crossing characters).

3. Character needs to be unique in some way. Sakurai described this as "having identifying features and abilities that make them different from existing characters." I can't think of too many characters incapable of this aside from Ninten, and Sakurai doesn't seem to be too uptight about this one based on what we've seen in Smash so far.

4. Character needs to be a prominent figure in their own series. Sakurai has mentioned this now and again but I don't have a fancy GDC 08 quote to sum it up with, oh well. Just means that characters like Daisy and Panther won't be considered over someone like Peach or Falco.


There are a lot of candidates on the table from these criteria. Sakurai has also mentioned adding characters to try and maintain a balance between the existing series, though I don't believe he achieved that in Melee nor Brawl. So that's a footnote for now.

Also I tend to disregard "stuff that helps" because it always evolves into "required." Sakurai is more lenient than a number of posters here.
 

ElPanandero

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As long as the character plays uniquely, I'm all for him. Also I do like Villains, add more of them (partially because Nintendo has a sever lack of interesting heroes >.>)
 

Shorts

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Kay :) Well thanks to everyone who listed what they use as criteria. I have finals today and tomorrow so I'll complie all the factors everyone has givin me on wednesday night or thursday afternoon.

Till then, anyone can give me their set of rules. Im going to try to compile everything you guys said to make a specific rule for new characters. Maybe so when we argue about characters like toad we can go thru the list of rules and talk about whether or not he fits OUR (Key Word) criteria.

If you want your opinion put in, post before thursday kay? I want as many people as possible so in the future no one can complain, "Well those arent MY RULES!" Because, if you had the oppertununity to get your point across and just didnt, that is not everyone elses fault.
 

Propeller Toad

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I would choose:
Bowser Jr: Because even though marios franchise is basically covered, bowser Jr. is just a layer of icing on the cake. And who doesnt love frosting? :p
You're forgetting that Toad is still not covered for us Toad fans...
 
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