[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Barbasol]

I'm not sold on Toad. I mean, it's totally reasonable to say he deserves to join the party... But if he didn't make it in to Brawl, it doesn't really seem like he will in Four.

I recall reading in Nintendo Power, a few months after Melee came out and Electronic Gaming Monthly released its infamous 'OMG Sonic and Tails in Melee' April Fools Joke, just who the most requested characters were for Brawl. Topping the list of course were Sonic and Tails... but a close third was actually that little fella we all know as Toad. That's a good sign! But... he hasn't really been a major player anymore. In fact, he's sorta been falling out of use individually, and more emphasis is on Toadsworth and the Toads as a whole.

So, I have serious doubts about Toad being a playable character. He probably deserves it, given his long and colorful history in the Mario franchise... but if they aren't using him in the Mario games where there's only mario characters, why would he make it into Smash were representation is more hotly contested?

My two cents.

 

[AetherEch0s]

To further my point, King K.Rool. Since he was not in Donkey Kong Country Returns, he has little to no chance of inclusion in SSB4. If he had any chance, it was in Melee or Brawl, when he was important. His time is up. That is the point im making for Toad. If he was important enough to make it, he would have already. Its too late.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Tatanga has like 0 popularity. Fawful is popular, new and has moveset potential. The 3 most important things for inclusion. Toad is popular, old and has debatable moveset potential.

Im done with this. Sakurai can do whatever he wants, because he doesnt have the same mindset as any sane person here. He added tripping, enough said. Retro characters have made it, so Toad might make it. I just dont see it happening when there are two newer characters who have larger roles in the series. If Toad is oh so iconic, he would have got in earlier.

Fawful is new, but Toad is old AND is still a familiar, popular, recurring character in the Mario series. Being new is good, but why add someone new who is somewhat popular and has been in three recent games, when you it would make much more sense to add a character who is even more popular and still is after beign in the series since the beginning of it's existence.

Mario, Peach, Luigi, and Bowser are the most iconic characters of the series, so it makes sense that they got in first. Sakurai probably just wanted to leave the Mario series alone to focus on others. Also, I thought this was about Toad's chances of appearing before Fawful, not Toad's chances of appearing at all. I could use the same logic... if Fawful is oh so popular and important, he would have gotten into Brawl. And we don't know if Sakurai is directing the next Smash... so that doesn't really matter.

 

[Kantrip]

There is a major difference there.

K. Rool has stopped showing up in games, while Toad has not.

Bowser was around for the original smash, but wasn't added until Melee. This is because the roster expanded. He was clearly around, new, popular, deserving, and unique at the time.

Additionally, Pit. ROB. Ice Climbers. So many characters that have been "revived" using smash.

 

[Gallowglass]

Tatanga has like 0 popularity. Fawful is popular, new and has moveset potential. The 3 most important things for inclusion. Toad is popular, old and has debatable moveset potential.

As i said, his chances are gone anyway. If he were going to be in one, it would have been pre-brawl, when he was important.
Im done with this. Sakurai can do whatever he wants, because he doesnt have the same mindset as any sane person here. He added tripping, enough said. Retro characters have made it, so Toad might make it. I just dont see it happening when there are two newer characters who have larger roles in the series. If Toad is oh so iconic, he would have got in earlier.

I didn't even know who Fawful was until you mention it. I had to look him up and granted I don't know my Mario characters but I knew who Toad, Daisy, Waluigi, and Tatanga were.

Plus saying that he doesn't have a moveset is a pointless arguement. One, he already does if you use his spore counter attack that he does in Smash and second if that's the case the Captain Falcon shouldn't be in Smash because he didn't have anything until he came into smash.

You also say it's too late for him anyways but what about characters like Pit and Metaknight who didn't show up in Melee but got a chance in Brawl. Toad is playable in a post-brawl game so that can't be a reason. And he has played major roles in games in helping Mario in a similar way that Yoshi helps him.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah I was thinking a bit, Toad could be pretty cool.

^ B : Grappling hook? Another tether, I know, but the Toad Brigade in Galaxy was so cool and this could work as a valid recovery.

> B : Mario Kart? He could get in a kart and drive lololol. It works

B : Super awesome power Toad kick? Toad has been portrayed as very strong for his size and has used power kicks in some games afaik (wario woods I think had this)

v B : Spore counter? As peach's, now he just stands and blocks stuff with spores by himself.

It's totally plausible, I was just wondering if anyone else could think of anything instead of getting defensive and shoving Captain Falcon in our faces.

 

[Berserker.]

Crimson has a point. Let's try pointing out Toad's abilites:

Super Mario Bros 2
- He was the fastest and strongest among the playable characters

Super Smash Bros.
- He has good endurance (It may be canon or non canon)

Super Princess Peach
- He can flutter jump (Maybe it's non canon)

Mario Galaxy
- Can wall jump

The worst part about this is that we don't know if all of this is canon. The only thing that's canon is that he's fast and he can use spores to summon mushrooms to his advantage as seen in sports mix and in smash bros. Either way, Toad would be an interesting and good addition in smash bros

Aether, about saying that it's too late for Toad, you mean "he has a minimal chance"?

 

[AetherEch0s]

Retro Characters are a different story. They are old series, deserving representation. We are talking about Toad, who could have been in an earlier game, but wasnt. As a series rep, he should have came earlier, instead of later, taking the slot of a newer and arguably more important character from the same series. He is past his prime. How long has it been since Toad was important in the way Fawful or Bowser Jr. are?

and Yes, i mean he has minimal chances this far into the series compared to new characters. On SSB, his chances were high, what with being a playable character in the older games. On Melee, somewhat dwindled, but his chances were good, since Peach and Bowser only just got their slot. I feel that Brawl was his last chance. Unless a new game propels him forward in importance, i feel he has minimal chances compared to the new competition.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Aether, you can't say that Toad wouldn't make it in SSB4 because he didn't make it in Brawl... you could say that for ANY character. This can only be used in situations like "So-and-so character VS. character already in Smash." But in this case, Toad is not competing with anyone already in Smash. The roster simply wasn't expanded enough for his inclusion.

While Smash Bros. should have elements from the latest and greatest of each series, it should put focus on each of the series as a whole as well. Yeah, there are newer characters in the Mario series, but Toad isn't exactly done. He is still around, still popular, still familiar, and he has great history with the Mario series and with Nintendo. Smash should represent the "best-of" each series, not only what is most recent, except for series that constantly change like Fire Emblem and Pokemon. This is also why King K. Rool has a good chance of appearing, actually.

And I wouldn't say his role is dwindling. He was playable in NSMBWii whether or not he was a throw-in, and he made plenty of appearances in Super Mario Galaxy, and well as all the latest Mario spin-offs. And Yoshi isn't really represented as a single character either... it's always a Yoshi, not the Yoshi, so that argument is also pointless.

EDIT: Also, Toad is important to the series. Maybe his roles aren't exactly important in the games, but he is important to the series. Imagine the reaction to the removal of Toad from the series compared to the reaction of Fawful never appearing again.

Toad's moves... he could borrow moves from SMB2 and NSMBWii. He could use the charged high jump from SMB2 as his Up B and also pick up and carry/throw characters like in NSMBWii.

 

[Kantrip]

The Toad Brigade was necessary to Galaxy imo. 2 Toads were playable in NSMBW on top of the real Toad running shops and a bunch of generics getting captured. Lots of Toads here, and the game wouldn't be the same without them.
You can't deny that Toad is recent and relevant. You also can't deny that he is iconic and recognizable. It follows that all he needs is a moveset and there's nothing in his way.

K. Rool still has a chance due to a plethora of moveset options (seriously, we could add another special button and he'd be comfortable with his cannon (hehehe, cannonballs) abilities), and his large fanbase. He is still popular, and I have faith he's not gone. Maybe Retro thinks he is, but Nintendo's sure to have other plans.

 

[Berserker.]

Aether isn't saying that it's impossible for Toad to get in. He's just saying that his chances are sort of minimal. I'm not against Toad

Yeah I was thinking a bit, Toad could be pretty cool.

^ B : Grappling hook? Another tether, I know, but the Toad Brigade in Galaxy was so cool and this could work as a valid recovery.

> B : Mario Kart? He could get in a kart and drive lololol. It works

B : Super awesome power Toad kick? Toad has been portrayed as very strong for his size and has used power kicks in some games afaik (wario woods I think had this)

v B : Spore counter? As peach's, now he just stands and blocks stuff with spores by himself.

It's totally plausible, I was just wondering if anyone else could think of anything instead of getting defensive and shoving Captain Falcon in our faces.

Maybe his up B could be a propeller and his B could be an ice flower or mushroom that damages

I think Toad can present his unsuitable superhuman strength within his smashes and tilts.

 

[Gallowglass]

The only reason that Toad wouldn't be put in is because there are many Mario characters and with 4 main characters and 2 spin off characters (DK and Yoshi) it would be difficult for any Mario character to get in.

As for moves I always thought he had a good head for headbutting. Maybe not Luigi's torpedo but running A move he dive at the person hitting them with his head.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Im not against him either. He is one of the iconic character in the Mario Series and deserves a slot. Its just that including him over newer characters seems stupid. He had his chance when he was important. If he were to make it, Ridley, Dark Samus, K.Rool, Tingle, Vaati, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Slippy Toad, etc would have to make it. Deserving characters are everywhere, but they must be relevant to the new players. I doubt many children will see a SSB4 advertisement and go "OH YEAH TOAD IS PLAYABLE". Im sure the reaction would be greater seeing Fawful or Bowser Jr, since they are more familiar and recognized as unique "cool" characters. I for one would have much more fun playing as Fawful. Just his personality alone is enough to set him apart.

 

[Kantrip]

Please don't call DK a spinoff

It has evolved into so much more. Donkey Kong is so much its own series now that it has become more popular than most other Nintendo franchises on its own two feet. Donkey Kong went from villain to protagonist, got his own villain, followed by his own series, then his own sidekick.
Then his sidekick got a girlfriend sidekick, and then SHE got a sidekick.
Then DK's sidekick got his own series, and THAT was a spinoff.

Yoshi was also a series on its own before it joined the Mario franchise iirc, but it is a spinoff as it is associated with Mario still and isn't widely popular on its own.

@berserker Yeah I forgot about all the new generation powerups that aren't being used! Mario and Luigi have their moves now but the propellor mushroom spin jump hover thing would make a great recovery! And the ice flower could work though I personally don't like it. An ice climber icicle that is lighter and bounces. There is a lot of potential when you account for all the new generation stuff though, so yeah, Toad has no problems then.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Im not against him either. He is one of the iconic character in the Mario Series and deserves a slot. Its just that including him over newer characters seems stupid. He had his chance when he was important. If he were to make it, Ridley, Dark Samus, K.Rool, Tingle, Vaati, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Slippy Toad, etc would have to make it. Deserving characters are everywhere, but they must be relevant to the new players. I doubt many children will see a SSB4 advertisement and go "OH YEAH TOAD IS PLAYABLE". Im sure the reaction would be greater seeing Fawful or Bowser Jr, since they are more familiar and recognized as unique characters.

First of all, how is Bowser Jr. unique compared to Toad? He's like a mini Bowser. What other major characters resemble a Toad (Toadsworth is included as a Toad)? And I'd actually say the reaction to Toad would be greater, considering he is more familiar, more recognizable, and from what I can tell, more popular than Fawful not only amonf children but among anyone remotely familiar with Mario. How is Toad not relevant to new players?

Also, by your logic, Krystal should have been in over Wolf considering Krystal in newer and seemed pretty popular before Brawl.

EDIT: And again, Toad is pretty important as I said earlier. Maybe his roles aren't exactly important in the games, but he is important to the series. Imagine the reaction to the removal of Toad from the series compared to the reaction of Fawful never appearing again.

And if you're arguing based on bias, this is not the place to do it.

 

[Gallowglass]

Please don't call DK a spinoff

It has evolved into so much more. Donkey Kong is so much its own series now that it has become more popular than most other Nintendo franchises on its own two feet. Donkey Kong went from villain to protagonist, got his own villain, followed by his own series, then his own sidekick.
Then his sidekick got a girlfriend sidekick, and then SHE got a sidekick.
Then DK's sidekick got his own series, and THAT was a spinoff.

Yoshi was also a series on its own before it joined the Mario franchise iirc, but it is a spinoff as it is associated with Mario still and isn't widely popular on its own.

@berserker Yeah I forgot about all the new generation powerups that aren't being used! Mario and Luigi have their moves now but the propellor mushroom spin jump hover thing would make a great recovery! And the ice flower could work though I personally don't like it. An ice climber icicle that is lighter and bounces. There is a lot of potential when you account for all the new generation stuff though, so yeah, Toad has no problems then.

Well Donkey Kong was originally was a Mario game. I didn't mean to say that all Donkey Kong titles are spinoffs but just DK (which Mario and DK's rivalry is often referenced). Notice I didn't say Diddy Kong because he's from a completely different series. I don't know my Donkey Kong games but those characters have a better chance then Mario characters for sure.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Krystal has been in 3 games, and was only an important npc in one of them. Her moveset would have taken a lot more work too, instead of the semi-cloned Wolf. His moves are different, but they use nearly the same coding. Up b and Side b make him move, normal b is a projectile, down b is a reflector. Krystal would have required a new staff moveset, and with the time shortages brawl went through, they went the easier route. She is still deserving, but 3 is enough or too many for a dead series. Unless a new starfox comes out with Marcus McCloud, the series is at its end.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, I thought you meant that Donkey Kong was still a "spinoff character" like Yoshi and Wario are considered. He is his own character in the smash series now, and doesn't take up any space that rightfully belongs to the most popular Nintendo franchise: Mario.

Oh, and:
^ B: Propellor Mushroom - Toad shoots high up into the sky whilst spinning, then falls gracefully down. That rise does damage, the fall is pretty much his version of a tumble animation.

> B: Star bit - A coloured star bit flies off in front of Toad at a slightly controllable angle (like yoshi eggs), if it hits an enemy, it bursts, deals damage and a small amount of hitstun.

V B: Spore Counter - Toad stands ready for an attack, and upon contact releases harmful spores at the enemies. Same as peach's current move.

B: Ice Flower - Toad shoots a small icy snowball that bounces and freezes enemies on contact, dealing a bit of damage.

How's this?

 

[Berserker.]

I posted late D:

I liked the Kart Idea but overall, it's a fine moveset. Now he can spam those star bits and ice flowers plus he's fast O_o

 

[AetherEch0s]

Technically, Wario and Yoshi should both bear the Mario Mushroom symbol as far as im concerned. That would simplify things quite a bit. I mean, giving them dif symbols is like making Ike's symbol a greatsword opposed to the falchion because he was in 2 games.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Krystal has been in 3 games, and was only an important npc in one of them. Her moveset would have taken a lot more work too, instead of the semi-cloned Wolf. His moves are different, but they use nearly the same coding. Up b and Side b make him move, normal b is a projectile, down b is a reflector. Krystal would have required a new staff moveset, and with the time shortages brawl went through, they went the easier route. She is still deserving, but 3 is enough or too many for a dead series. Unless a new starfox comes out with Marcus McCloud, the series is at its end.

This really wasn't my point though... I was explaining how just because a character is newer than others in a series does not automatically guarantee them a spot. And even if Krystal was only in three games, that's like half or more than half of the Star Fox games. Fawful was in three Mario games... a very small fraction of all the games. Toad has appeared in pretty much every major Mario title and spin-off. And what about everything else I pointed out?

Technically, Wario and Yoshi should both bear the Mario Mushroom symbol as far as im concerned. That would simplify things quite a bit. I mean, giving them dif symbols is like making Ike's symbol a greatsword opposed to the falchion because he was in 2 games.

The difference is that Ike is still Fire Emblem. He has never spawned his own spin-off series. Yoshi has Yoshi's Island, and Wario has Wario Land/WarioWare.

 

[Gallowglass]

Krystal has been in 3 games, and was only an important npc in one of them. Her moveset would have taken a lot more work too, instead of the semi-cloned Wolf. His moves are different, but they use nearly the same coding. Up b and Side b make him move, normal b is a projectile, down b is a reflector. Krystal would have required a new staff moveset, and with the time shortages brawl went through, they went the easier route. She is still deserving, but 3 is enough or too many for a dead series. Unless a new starfox comes out with Marcus McCloud, the series is at its end.

Oh and I forgot Wario is another spin off character.

You do realize that Krystal is the second most played character in Starfox besides Fox. Since she was playable in Starfox Adventures in the first part she out plays Falco and Wolf.

 

[refugee]

Technically, Wario and Yoshi should both bear the Mario Mushroom symbol as far as im concerned. That would simplify things quite a bit. I mean, giving them dif symbols is like making Ike's symbol a greatsword opposed to the falchion because he was in 2 games.

I find that Wario has starred in enough games on his own to have his own symbol. Here are a list of his games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wario_(series)

 

[Kantrip]

So how about that Bowser Jr. guys? You think he deserves to join the smash scene along with Toad in the next installment? His paintbrush would be a cool and unique weapon to work with. I'd avoid Shadow Mario, though. There are so many things Jr. could do to avoid being a clone without worrying about that Mario-shaped mound of muck.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Its more than just being newer. He is past his prime as far as a candidate in my opinion.

As an antagonist, Fawful/Bowser Jr. both gain more in the terms of their chances. In my opinon, SSB needs characters and their rival antagonists. The more balance between them the better. It would not be right to keep adding Mario protagonists when there are deserving antagonists needed to balance it out. It seems like Sakurai doesnt have the same thing in mind, but this is how it should be.

This also applies to Wolf. Being the only viable antagonist (andross lol monkey head with hands) he deserved to make it before Krystal. 3 Protagonists would just be stupid. There needs to be a villain to balance things. Mewtwo played that role as well, but as i said earlier, Sakurai : /

 

[Gallowglass]

So how about that Bowser Jr. guys? You think he deserves to join the smash scene along with Toad in the next installment? His paintbrush would be a cool and unique weapon to work with. I'd avoid Shadow Mario, though. There are so many things Jr. could do to avoid being a clone without worrying about that Mario-shaped mound of muck.

I don't know him much myself since I haven't played Mario Sunshine and only seen him Mario Kart and Mario Wii. He seems rather popular though.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

So how about that Bowser Jr. guys? You think he deserves to join the smash scene along with Toad in the next installment? His paintbrush would be a cool and unique weapon to work with. I'd avoid Shadow Mario, though. There are so many things Jr. could do to avoid being a clone without worrying about that Mario-shaped mound of muck.

Honestly, I'm really hoping both get in. It would make the series seem more "complete" to me. But if only one did, then I'm a bit torn... both are so deserving, I'd give them each a 50/50 chance.

I am worried about Bowser Jr. being a clone. I want him to be unique, and I want to see Shadow Mario, but I'm afraid it's too late for that.

 

[AetherEch0s]

I keep imagining Bowser Jr. as a Bowser clone with a special that changes him to a Mario Clone. Thats why Fawful beats him in my opinion.

 

[Kantrip]

Jr. Has a lot of things that Bowser doesn't, however. Speed and light weight are only the beginning. His paintbrush would be used for a lot of A attacks to give him range for his attacks. That along with his complete difference in size category will make his and Bowser's A moves completely different.
Next is B moves, in which Jr. could have the Clown Car for a recovery (he's been using it more lately, I think Bowser got too fat for it and passed the heirloom to his son), a goo blob B move that hurls a ball of goop, and some other things that I could think of if needed without needing to transform into Shadow Mario. He can be a final smash or something....

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Its more than just being newer. He is past his prime as far as a candidate in my opinion.

As an antagonist, Fawful/Bowser Jr. both gain more in the terms of their chances. In my opinon, SSB needs characters and their rival antagonists. The more balance between them the better. It would not be right to keep adding Mario protagonists when there are deserving antagonists needed to balance it out. It seems like Sakurai doesnt have the same thing in mind, but this is how it should be.

This also applies to Wolf. Being the only viable antagonist (andross lol monkey head with hands) he deserved to make it before Krystal. 3 Protagonists would just be stupid. There needs to be a villain to balance things. Mewtwo played that role as well, but as i said earlier, Sakurai : /

How is he past his prime? He's had his first playable appearance since Wario Woods and SMB2 in NSMBWii, and he had a much greater and more interesting role in Super Mario Galaxy and SMG2 then he has had in all the previous Mario platformers. Furthermore, he STILL appears in all the spin-off titles.

I don't think that Villain thing matters much either, unless the villain is actually quite important to the series, as well as being popular and familiar. If viallains actually mattered that much, and if every character needs their own "rival" or something, Bowser, Mewtwo, and Dedede wouldn't have been scrapped from SSB64, Dedede would have made it into Melee as well as Ridley, Wolf would have appeared before Falco, etc.

Plus, I really doubt any developer or designer would include a lesser known, less popular character over a popular and iconic character simply because the character is a vaillain.

 

[Gallowglass]

I would rather see Toad then Bowser Jr. personally but that's because I know him more.

Personally I only want 3 characters to appear. What else comes in I'm not really bothered.

1. Little Mac
2. Krystal (with staff)
3. Toad

 

[Kantrip]

Hey, if smash gets passed to a new dev team, they will probably have different ideals. Maybe one of them will be shared with mine in that all characters should have a unique niche. Cloning bugs me when there's so much potential in the Nintendo world.

 

[Berserker.]

I doubt Bowser Jr. would be a clone of Bowser. Bowser has brute strength and huge fire. Bowser Jr. has a paint brush, normal strength and small - medium fire plus tad fast speed.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Sakurai hadnt even considered Ridley as a character. Check about 3 pages back, i posted a piece from an interview. It hadnt even crossed his mind. Thats why i said "In my opinion" thats how the game should be. It applies at times, and at other it doesnt. Each series doesnt however need to be balanced out with all important characters in attendance.

From the roster right now
Mario needs Toad, Bowser Jr and Fawful. There are no other important characters.
Donkey Kong needs Dixie and K.Rool.
Yoshi COULD use Kamek, but she hasnt had an important role since.
Zelda series is finished. It has the 3 parts of the triforce covered. Young link/toon link are not needed.
Metroid needs Ridley. Dark Samus was in 3 games but unfortunately, probably wont return.
Starfox needs Krystal.
Pokemon needs Mewtwo, Lucario replaced with Zoroark, and possibly a revised Pokemon Trainer.
F-Zero is basically a dead series and needs no other represerentation.
Pikmin needs no other representation. Olimar has it covered.
Fire Emblem is basically a dead series. With Marth and Ike being the only reocurring Heros, and Ike only being added to hype his game, should not return. Marth is all that is needed.

My point being, If they overhaul the roster for SSB4, and i mean OVERHAUL IT. Many characters will leave and many will come. If they do it based on importance to the series. If not, the newest will most likely take the slot since it will promote their games.

 

[Kantrip]

If they did a major overhaul I could honestly see Jiggs leaving. Apart from her unique and likeable playstyle her role in the series is dead. I mean, if we consider not letting some people in because they're in the past, why not kick some people out because they've had their time?

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Sakurai hadnt even considered Ridley as a character. Check about 3 pages back, i posted a piece from an interview. It hadnt even crossed his mind. Thats why i said "In my opinion" thats how the game should be. It applies at times, and at other it doesnt. Each series doesnt however need to be balanced out with all important characters in attendance.

From the roster right now
Mario needs Toad, Bowser Jr and Fawful. There are no other important characters.
Donkey Kong needs Dixie and K.Rool.
Yoshi COULD use Kamek, but she hasnt had an important role since.
Zelda series is finished. It has the 3 parts of the triforce covered. Young link/toon link are not needed.
Metroid needs Ridley. Dark Samus was in 3 games but unfortunately, probably wont return.
Starfox needs Krystal.
Pokemon needs Mewtwo, Lucario replaced with Zoroark, and possibly a revised Pokemon Trainer.
F-Zero is basically a dead series and needs no other represerentation.
Pikmin needs no other representation. Olimar has it covered.
Fire Emblem is basically a dead series. With Marth and Ike being the only reocurring Heros, and Ike only being added to hype his game, should not return. Marth is all that is needed.

My point being, If they overhaul the roster for SSB4, and i mean OVERHAUL IT. Many characters will leave and many will come. If they do it based on importance to the series. If not, the newest will most likely take the slot since it will promote their games.

I actually generally agree with this list. I just don't consider Fawful that important of a Mario character. You're also missing Paper Mario, who is another popular character and is also considered one of the three most likely Mario candidates (alongside Bowser Jr. and Toad). Not to mention, he is much more suited to represent the Mario RPG series than Fawful. Plus, if the overhaul happens the way you suggested (which I find unlikely), than Paper Mario would be much more fit to represent than Fawful, considering he has a new game coming out on the 3DS.

I don't even put Paper Mario on the same level as Toad or Bowser Jr. though. And I also think each series needs to complete it's own roster of the series' "major" characters before adding new characters to promote. Bowser Jr. and Toad are main characters of the Mario series, Fawful is not. He wouldn't appear until after they did.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't think they'll remove Jigglypuff. She's been in Smash Bros. ever since. If they are removing her, it's like removing Ness from Smash Bros. I wonder if they will overhaul the game AND they won't remove any character.

 

[AetherEch0s]

They got rid of Mewtwo, who was much more deserving, Jigglypuff should have also left. It has no importance to Pokemon.

 

[Gallowglass]

Fire Emblem isn't a dead series and has beeen huge in Japan for years. It's just beginning to be introduced to America. The Gameboy Advance Fire Emblem game was orignially a SNES game in Japan.

F-Zero isn't dead either since the last game they made was very popular. For some reason they haven't made another to come out on the Wii. Plus Samurai Gorho would be the next character to be added to Smash from that series.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

IF there was an overhaul, I'd expect these characters to leave:
-Toon Link
-Lucario
-Lucas
-Ike
-R.O.B.
-Sonic
-Snake