[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SmashChu]

Or C) it could be implemented in a tasteful fashion that enhances the gameplay experience, but like all the other content in the game. You're being pessimistic, which is fine, and I would accept that, but you keep trying to attribute it to other factors like "Oh, it'll be done like it's done in other games that suck! Look at the sales!"

I already covered that with "A)People who would have already played and enjoyed the game like and the other people don't care"

The problem is that this does nothing for the game part. It's an extra, but it could go just as wrong.

You don't like the idea, we get it. But it could be done well. Wouldn't you trust Sakurai and friends to flesh out their game in the best way possible? Certain design decisions have to be made with each new game as well, otherwise, Brawl would still look and sound just like the 64 version. And that wouldn't be appealing to customers.

So seriously, do you get our argument here? If you think that this extra dialogue thing could potentially be executed poorly, others think it could be executed well, and we could all just agree to disagree.

Your missing the point. It doesn't matter how well it's done. This doesn't mean people will like it.

The people who care about this kind of stuff are diehard fans. Everyone else will not care. This is why I say it is bad. It's not going to get people more excited for the game and it will not make the game sell better. But even if it could be done as best as it can, doesn't mean people will see it that way. A lot of people who are not huge Nintendo fans may see it as annoying and getting in the way.

Of course, if it could be done well, it could also be done bad. Despite the game being amazing, people will still say Pit's voice is annoying. If the VAs aren't good, it wont be good. VAs tend to get ignored if the game is good, but not if the characters wont shut up.

Plus, this does nothing for the game part. People will buy and enjoy the game part. Even if people see this as a nice little feature, it will be ignored in a week.

 

[mariodk]

next SSB shoulder have Anime Chars. like Goku/Vegeta or Naruto then Mario can pwn Goku or Vegeta ;D or (if shadow coming) Vegeta vs. Shadow and Goku vs. Sonic

 

[ryuu seika]

Dumb idea. Though "Toon Falcon" could be lolworthy.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'm personally one of those players who picks Pit just to annoy my friends with his voice so....

Oddly it is very surprising how many random players get annoyed from it. XD

 

[ryuu seika]

I get more annoyed by Ike.

 

[flyinfilipino]

The problem is that this does nothing for the game part. It's an extra, but it could go just as wrong.

Your missing the point. It doesn't matter how well it's done. This doesn't mean people will like it.

The people who care about this kind of stuff are diehard fans. Everyone else will not care. This is why I say it is bad. It's not going to get people more excited for the game and it will not make the game sell better. But even if it could be done as best as it can, doesn't mean people will see it that way. A lot of people who are not huge Nintendo fans may see it as annoying and getting in the way.

Plus, this does nothing for the game part. People will buy and enjoy the game part. Even if people see this as a nice little feature, it will be ignored in a week.

New characters don't have to be recieved warmly. From my experience, no one likes Wario; I've never seen anyone actively choose him to play with (this is just based on my experience). Most people I know still don't care about Mr. Game and Watch and ever choose him, despite all the improvements made to him. So do they still "add to the game" in the way you're describing? Did people get excited because of all the new moves Mr. Game and Watch got if no one ever uses him; did that increase sales? If the general public didn't get excited about Wario (or Lucas, or R.O.B., substitute any unpopular character here), were they worthy additions in your eyes? Do you know why they included Wario/Lucas/Mr. Game and Watch/whoever in the game, who pushed for those characters to be included? The diehard fans, they are the ones being appeased there. It's been said many times before: Smash Bros. is a fanservice game, whether you like it or not.

The point is (lest you "miss" it), for every possible added feature that you think won't "add to sales" and get people excited, there are features that were "added to the game" that don't do it either.

 

[ryuu seika]

Game & Watch was better in Melee .

 

[SmashChu]

New characters don't have to be recieved warmly. From my experience, no one likes Wario; I've never seen anyone actively choose him to play with (this is just based on my experience). Most people I know still don't care about Mr. Game and Watch and ever choose him, despite all the improvements made to him. So do they still "add to the game" in the way you're describing? Did people get excited because of all the new moves Mr. Game and Watch got if no one ever uses him; did that increase sales? If the general public didn't get excited about Wario (or Lucas, or R.O.B., substitute any unpopular character here), were they worthy additions in your eyes? Do you know why they included Wario/Lucas/Mr. Game and Watch/whoever in the game, who pushed for those characters to be included? The diehard fans, they are the ones being appeased there. It's been said many times before: Smash Bros. is a fanservice game, whether you like it or not.

The point is (lest you "miss" it), for every possible added feature that you think won't "add to sales" and get people excited, there are features that were "added to the game" that don't do it either.

So now it's totally OK to add bad features?

A lot of people love Wario for instance. I don't think what you are saying lines up at all. None of the characters are hated (and the only time you may hear it is if "WAAAA, that character is the reason my character isn't in the game). Characters are always welcomed with open arms.

This feature, however, does nothing and will likely cause backlash. Your looking at my argument wrong. You just see "OH Smashchu thinks this is bad when it doesn't make sales. So i will argue against that." Not at all. The argument is that people will not like this feature and it does nothing for the GAME. Even if things like "Rotation," don't improve the game's sales, at least it is augmenting the game so it is never seen as a bad thing.

 

[chenjesu]

add all 500 pokemon, tails, knuckles, megaman, sagat, everyone else from street fighter, everyone from Mortal Kombat, and let you create your own character.

 

[flyinfilipino]

This feature, however, does nothing and will likely cause backlash. Your looking at my argument wrong. You just see "OH Smashchu thinks this is bad when it doesn't make sales. So i will argue against that." Not at all. The argument is that people will not like this feature and it does nothing for the GAME. Even if things like "Rotation," don't improve the game's sales, at least it is augmenting the game so it is never seen as a bad thing.

And you just see "New feature; I don't like the idea, so I'll try to argue that it's a bad idea for reasons other than the fact that I just don't like it". You're just being selective about the things you think are a good/bad idea for the games. Which is fine; just get your reasoning straight.

 

[Rychu]

add all 500 pokemon, tails, knuckles, megaman, sagat, everyone else from street fighter, everyone from Mortal Kombat, and let you create your own character.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.

 

[Shorts]

add all 500 pokemon, tails, knuckles, megaman, sagat, everyone else from street fighter, everyone from Mortal Kombat, and let you create your own character.

Finally, Bidoof VS. Sub-Zero. I've been dreaming of this day. . . -.-

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Hate to be the only guy who says Chu's right, but Chu's right on this one. Assuming of course that people are suggesting more blatant Star Fox-esque stuff rather than Mario reusing a quick clip from whatever.

Voice work isn't Nintendo's (or NoA, at the very least) specialty; these WON'T come out good. Fans are gonna cringe and maybe feel embarrassed, non-fans are gonna be confused and annoyed. It's hard enough keeping people's interest as it is without making them roll their eyes every few seconds.


this new skin is pretty terrible, definitely hate this site for reals now

 

[Kantrip]

Why do forums have to be like reptiles and shed their skins so much? The new Edit and quote buttons and stuff are too bright and look weird.

What are your guys' opinion on a replacement for the Smash Ball? A better and more fun way to gain access to your final smash? Thoughts?

 

[Big-Cat]

Hate to be the only guy who says Chu's right, but Chu's right on this one. Assuming of course that people are suggesting more blatant Star Fox-esque stuff rather than Mario reusing a quick clip from whatever.

Voice work isn't Nintendo's (or NoA, at the very least) specialty; these WON'T come out good. Fans are gonna cringe and maybe feel embarrassed, non-fans are gonna be confused and annoyed. It's hard enough keeping people's interest as it is without making them roll their eyes every few seconds.


this new skin is pretty terrible, definitely hate this site for reals now

NOA's getting better. Their work on Other M wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. But yeah, the most I'm suggesting is occasional easter eggs on certain matchups like Pit's "I'm done for."

Things like "So,long King Bowser." when Mario throws Bowser or Wolf saying "Can't let you do that, Fox." when he counter attacks Fox are all I'm really suggesting in terms of dialogue bits. And even then, these things wouldn't be said all the time, just on occasion. A minor complaint of mine with BlazBlue and Marvel is that there isn't enough diversity in dialogue so hearing She-Hulk saying "Gotcha now!" every time she uses Advancing Guard in rapid succession can get annoying.

And if you hate this site so much, then why are you here?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Hate to be the only guy who says Chu's right, but Chu's right on this one. Assuming of course that people are suggesting more blatant Star Fox-esque stuff rather than Mario reusing a quick clip from whatever.

Voice work isn't Nintendo's (or NoA, at the very least) specialty; these WON'T come out good. Fans are gonna cringe and maybe feel embarrassed, non-fans are gonna be confused and annoyed. It's hard enough keeping people's interest as it is without making them roll their eyes every few seconds.

this new skin is pretty terrible, definitely hate this site for reals now

Yeah, I can't really imagine Mario giving an eloquent taunt to Bowser or Sonic, but a little sound byte wouldn't hurt. Thanks for at least giving a real reason why you think it could be a bad idea.

This new skin is a little...bright. I miss the old one for now.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not the biggest fan of the size of the buttons in the new layout, but I like it overall. It's very clean and colorful.

 

[augustoflores]

yeah i hate the layout too.
on smash ball... how about a smash meter? i think kuma mentioned that once upon a yesteryear.

 

[Big-Cat]

Smash meter?

Cue the SmashChu sales rant.

 

[SmashChu]

NOA's getting better. Their work on Other M wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. But yeah, the most I'm suggesting is occasional easter eggs on certain matchups like Pit's "I'm done for."

Other M's voice work wasn't good, but it may have been the writing more than the actors (Morgan Freeman couldn't have made that sound good).

Things like "So,long King Bowser." when Mario throws Bowser or Wolf saying "Can't let you do that, Fox." when he counter attacks Fox are all I'm really suggesting in terms of dialogue bits. And even then, these things wouldn't be said all the time, just on occasion. A minor complaint of mine with BlazBlue and Marvel is that there isn't enough diversity in dialogue so hearing She-Hulk saying "Gotcha now!" every time she uses Advancing Guard in rapid succession can get annoying.

I would still say those are annoying too. Plus these will be 4 characters doing it over too. Otherwise, thanks for defining it.

this new skin is pretty terrible, definitely hate this site for reals now

Just curious, but how come (the skin part).

Thanks for at least giving a real reason why you think it could be a bad idea.

These are all from post I've made.

If you didn't, you would see that the reason it is bad is because it is going to be annoying for the player.

Doesn't matter. This banter will do nothing for the game. Consider this: We add the banter. Either A)People who would have already played and enjoyed the game like and the other people don't care or B)The people who would have played it any way may or may not like it while everyone else finds it a reason to turn down the volume.

And from my very first post on the topic.
Excess talking is annoying.

I'm posting more in that I thought the argument was "Oh, Smashchu believe X so that is what his entire argument is." Evidence is Toise saying the same idea and it's called the "real" reason.

 

[ryuu seika]

On the whole speech thing, so long as it's infrequent yet specific and only in a few circumstance, I can't see it doing any harm.

In the Mario throwing Bowser scenario for example, if it was said every time and you threw him a few times in rapid succession, it would start to get annoying. Now imagine Mario can't chain grab him. Would that be enough to make you quite the game? Probably not but other players aren't as dedicated as us.
The simple solution would be to have him say it on a random basis, say a 20% chance. This means it'd likely go unnoticed though.
So how about a frequency based system where Mario only says it if he hasn't said it or a while? It could work but I feel that my fourth method is better.
Finally, lets try a mix of the last two. A high chance of saying it once(80%?), then a really small chance (10%?) for the next five seconds or so (each usage resetting the counter), before returning to the original probability. What would you think of this way of doing voice clips on moves in specific matchups?

 

[BirthNote]

I don't really like the fourth option, tbh.

Anyway, quick question. Since Brawl is so well loved by every single user on Smashboards, I was wondering if anyone got a message saying "You've played 10,000 matches! This is no ordinary dedication!" That was an unexpected letter. Did anyone else get it?

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I don't really like the fourth option, tbh.

Anyway, quick question. Since Brawl is so well loved by every single user on Smashboards, I was wondering if anyone got a message saying "You've played 10,000 matches! This is no ordinary dedication!" That was an unexpected letter. Did anyone else get it?

I got that long ago...

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm posting more in that I thought the argument was "Oh, Smashchu believe X so that is what his entire argument is." Evidence is Toise saying the same idea and it's called the "real" reason.

Well there you go then. It just doesn't help when you throw in other, peripheral arguments:

Your missing the point. It doesn't matter how well it's done. This doesn't mean people will like it.

The people who care about this kind of stuff are diehard fans. Everyone else will not care. This is why I say it is bad. It's not going to get people more excited for the game and it will not make the game sell better.

Fighting games are a niche. Fighting games regularly get beaten in sales by WWE and DBZ games. Now, we have "hey guys, I like this unsuccessful niche game. Let's take elements from it and put into the successful game." By me saying that, people go "OMG Smashchu is SO BIASED." Fact it, we are talking about stealing the playbook of the losing team.

 

[DekuBoy]

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/63114/

So, Pandora's Tower is an RPG/slash and hack of some description.

 

[ryuu seika]

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Toad*.
LoZ: Link, Mirror Link (AKA Dark Link)*, Zelda/Shiek, Ganondorf (new version)*.
Yoshi: Yoshi, Heiho*.
F-Zero: Captain Falcon, Phoenix*, James McCloud*.
Wario: nobody.
DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, WizPig*, TT*.
Pokemon: Pichu, Mewtwo.
Kirby: Kirby, Meta Knight, Yarn Kirby*.
Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike.
Earthbound/Mother: Ness.
Star Fox: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Leon*.
Generics & Smaller Franchises: Mr Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Balloon Fighter*, Miis*.
Third Party: Sonic, Megaman*, Lloyd*, Banjo*, Jack Frost*, Billy Hatcher*.
Fourth Party: Bob (from the TV series "Reboot")*
Non-Playable Bosses: Dr. Kawashima (with hands)*.

Figured they could do with stages, again, this is in no way realistic:

Mushroom Kingdom: Peach's Castle (64), Mushroom Kingdom, Rainbow Ride, Starship Mario*
Hyrule: Castle, Temple of Time*, Bridge of Eldin
Termina: Great Bay
Yoshi's Story: Final Chapter (AKA 64), Shy Guy Ship*
F-Zero Grand Prix: Mute City, Big Blue, Lightning
DK Island: Kongo Jungle (melee), Jungle Japes
Dino Domain: Hot Top Volcano*
Future Fun Land: Throne Room*
Kanto: Pokemon Stadium (1), Poke Floats
Dreamland: Wispy's Woods (64), Green Greens, Fountain of Dreams
<Fire Emblem Stuff>
Eagleland: Onett
Lylat System: Sector Z, Venom, <needs 2 more>
Super Flat World: Flat Zone (1)
Icicle Mountain: Summit (unmoving)
<Something for Pikmin>
<Something for Balloon Fighter>
Fit Island: Penguin Slide*
Zone 1: Green Hill*
Cyberspace: Gravityman's Domain*
Between Worlds: Tower of Salvation*
Clip Clop Wood: Four Seasons*
Dino Park: After Hours*
<Billy Hatcher Stage>
Subspace: Final Destination, Replica World (story only morphing stage)*

* = New

 

[Supermario12]

On the whole speech thing, so long as it's infrequent yet specific and only in a few circumstance, I can't see it doing any harm.

In the Mario throwing Bowser scenario for example, if it was said every time and you threw him a few times in rapid succession, it would start to get annoying. Now imagine Mario can't chain grab him. Would that be enough to make you quite the game? Probably not but other players aren't as dedicated as us.
The simple solution would be to have him say it on a random basis, say a 20% chance. This means it'd likely go unnoticed though.
So how about a frequency based system where Mario only says it if he hasn't said it or a while? It could work but I feel that my fourth method is better.
Finally, lets try a mix of the last two. A high chance of saying it once(80%?), then a really small chance (10%?) for the next five seconds or so (each usage resetting the counter), before returning to the original probability. What would you think of this way of doing voice clips on moves in specific matchups?

Yea ur right, if he would say that everytime it would get annoying. But if thats the Only thing he says even at 80% it wouldnt work. He would need about 2 more Sayings to go along with that.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

NOA's getting better. Their work on Other M wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. But yeah, the most I'm suggesting is occasional easter eggs on certain matchups like Pit's "I'm done for."

Other M sucked but Punch-Out and Prime 3 were solid, so I just figure it's a matter of Treehouse localizations vs. NA studios doing it themselves. Uprising's dialogue is also terrible, so...

Spoiler

always bothered me, it's supposed to be "I'm finished!"

A minor complaint of mine with BlazBlue and Marvel is that there isn't enough diversity in dialogue so hearing She-Hulk saying "Gotcha now!" every time she uses Advancing Guard in rapid succession can get annoying.

More voice clips for the same action is always good thing, though the easter eggs themselves are just the cherry on top. Still fine as long as it isn't actual dialogue or soliloquies.

And if you hate this site so much, then why are you here?

This thread is fun. I just happen to hate everything and everyone else on the site, plus now it hurts my eyes.

Evidence is Toise saying the same idea and it's called the "real" reason.

Turns out articulation counts for something. Who knew?

 

[Kantrip]

If Donkey Kong gets another rep I believe they need a new stage. And not Rumble Falls, either.
If it's K. Rool (more likely) something like The Flying Krock or K. Rool's pirate ship would be cool.
If it's Dixie or Animal Buddies (not as likely ) then Web Woods or Castle Crush would work.
I think Castle Crush would be particularly cool, as you could have the scrolling up stage with changing scenery without the players having to jump their way up.

Just some biased thoughts.

 

[SmashChu]

Well there you go then. It just doesn't help when you throw in other, peripheral arguments:

Your excuse for missing my argument is "There are too many words on the screen."

Turns out articulation counts for something. Who knew?

Ehh fair enough.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Your excuse for missing my argument is "There are too many words on the screen."

Er, no, we all know you definitely wanted to argue those other things as well. Thanks to Toise, you're taking the easy way out.


And yeah, SSB4 isn't coming out for a long time (cue ChronoBound), but this thread is fun for a nice little argument every once and a while.

 

[BBQTV]

i cannot belive you fools are still continuing this pointless debate after all this time!

 

[ryuu seika]

Yea ur right, if he would say that everytime it would get annoying. But if thats the Only thing he says even at 80% it wouldnt work. He would need about 2 more Sayings to go along with that.

He'd keep the regular sounds for when it didn't happen or when he was facing someone who he didn't have a special voice clip for.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

The voice thing is just so stupid and specific I believe it will never because it will be to much work for Developers.

For a better idea I'd suggest that they get rid of Sub-space emissary and bring back melee adventure mode.

And I want them to really work hard in the opening of SSB4 it would be neat if it was represented same as melee's opening.

If remove SSE that will save memory space for more characters and ofc the more the merrier i dont even mind clones aslong it's a character and I think that's the point of the game.

 

[EverythingSmash]

ssb4 needs more people with the "bad guy" role.

shy guy- I've wanted him in since melee with little to no chance, but hey im still hopeful
Bowser jr. - even though I'm not a big fan of bowser Jr. His move set just sounds fun to play with, and with being in many new games I was shocked not to see him in brawl.

 

[SmashChu]

Er, no, we all know you definitely wanted to argue those other things as well. Thanks to Toise, you're taking the easy way out.

So now your defense is "Oh, you were trying to make other arguments." God forbid I make points right? God forbid there are WORDS on the screen. And who is "we?" And how am I "taking the easy way out," when you already see my point.

No Flyinfilpino. You missed the argument because you were too busy assuming what I said rather than reading the actual post. The what pissed me off the most. That you were so absorbed by the fact I used the word "sales," that you had to think about that rather than reading the post and arguing that. It's not even that Toise said it better (which is fine). It's that you didn't know what we were talking about and it didn't click until he said it.

Stop turning yourself into a pretzel and just admit you messed up.

 

[Kantrip]

Mmmmm, pretzels.

That's odd, these look almost the same! Perhaps it's a message? Let's keep the arguments on topic at least. It's more interesting than arguing semantics.

@Tofu.
Yeah I'd like to see Bowser Jr. for sure, along with some other baddies. K. Rool, Ridley, anything would be nice, eh?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Stop turning yourself into a pretzel and just admit you messed up.

Sure, I don't care, but if it makes you feel better.

You know exactly what the problems I have with your "sales" arguments are because we've been there before several times, so I won't bother derailing the current topic with that. I'll probably be around whenever you get to repeating yourself again.

 

[Shorts]

A quick tip for SSB4 thread newbies.​

Realize that when some veterans on this board get into arguements,

A. You will not be listened to, or reasoned with when weighing in on their arguements. Don't bring up points, because anyone who isn't "someone" will not be listened to.

B. You can always discuss around their posts, which I suggest you do if you plan on actually having a conversation on here.

C. If you don't like their topic, engage in a new one, or suggest a wrap up. (No garuntees though) Waiting around for something to die off or be interviened by another veteran may prove to be unfruitful.

D. Try your best to pick a topic that we can discuss for a realitivley decent amount of time, topic bouncing can be annoying. (and veterans hate it)

E. If anyone tries to deny the "social classes of SSB4 thread" they are crazy.

Lastly there is F. Try to take note of which veterans like what, you don't want to bug the wrong person by saying the wrong thing. It can end lamely.

Trust me, I've made all these mistakes. So, new topic anyone?

 

[Kantrip]

Sounds like a good idea. Attempts at feeling included are fruitless, eh? Kay. Have items been talked about much yet? I feel that many included items are dumb, pointless, or were made wrong. The team healer, for example.

What would people like to see as far as items go?