[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shorts]

3 games* my bad

Bowser Took a break for Wart, and Tatanga. Two characters no one talks about. Vaati si in SS? Lemme check that. If so, I'm genuinly excited for that game.

Edit: I think the new guy looks similar to Vaati, but is probably a new character. Ho Hum.

 

[Supermario12]

Bowser Took a break for Wart, and Tatanga. Two characters no one talks about. Vaati si in SS? Lemme check that. If so, I'm genuinly excited for that game.

Edit: I think the new guy looks similar to Vaati, but is probably a new character. Ho Hum.

I think Its Vaait, you can tell by the way hes dressed and the Smoke that he controls Enemys with, but ya never know you maybe right. Im just saying it looks like Vaait to me.

 

[Kantrip]

Just because there isn't a sequal planned doesn't make him forgotten. Look at Geno. Nintendo has had him cameo in the SM&L after at least eight years of nothing. Creators don't forget a character they designed and really liked. And fans don't forget a character that they loved to play as/against/see. K. Rool isn't forgotten, just on hold.

Alright, I'll give you that he's not forgotten. Although, as stated, Geno is a different case. I'm sure Nintendo would like to do more than cameo him with a credit to SE, whereas they have the full rights to K. Rool. They can use him whenever they'd like. Maybe they have plans for him in the future, but currently they're not using him, and Retro didn't seem to remember him enough to care about him for their reincarnation of the DKC series. I just hope they take K. Rool off hold sooner rather than later.

 

[BirthNote]

CrimsonFeint, did you even play DKCR and if yes how long? Retro did NOT forget about them; in the interviews leading up to the release they said constantly "There are no crocodiles/alligators in this game", and they were BIG fans of the first 3. Also, Cranky even jokes about it when he says "See ya later, alligator! Ha ha!"

It was a conscious decision to leave them out. They did not forget.

Anyway, what event match ideas do you guys have? Maybe they can do something like DK vs Lil Mac.

 

[Kantrip]

CrimsonFeint, did you even play DKCR and if yes how long? Retro did NOT forget about them; in the interviews leading up to the release they said constantly "There are no crocodiles/alligators in this game", and they were BIG fans of the first 3. Also, Cranky even jokes about it when he says "See ya later, alligator! Ha ha!"

It was a conscious decision to leave them out. They did not forget.

Anyway, what event match ideas do you guys have? Maybe they can do something like DK vs Lil Mac.

Yes, I did and am still playing DKCR. I apologize, I worded things pretty badly. Retro didn't forget about the Kremlings, they just chose to leave them out. It doesn't matter their reasoning, because I see it as this:

1. They did not include Kremlings/K. Rool in the game.

2. There is no sequel planned at this time.

Therefore, there was never any intention of including Kremlings in the revival of the series. Cranky's jokes and the rock formations in the backgrounds of levels were just to appease fans who would be expecting some sort of reference. Developers at Retro may have been fans of the original series, but they obviously weren't fans of the Kremlings. Or at least, not enough to consider them iconic or necessary.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

There is plenty of discussion going on in this thread. Your having a discussion about there being no discussion are you not? Ive been on here for quite some time but im just now trying to be active.

 

[Big-Cat]

NEW TOPIC!

I was playing BlazBlue with some people online yesterday, and we were talking about how there was so much personality in the characters because of the added dialogue during the fights. What do you think about this kind of thing being done for one on one matches as an extra dosage of fan service. We already have this with the Starfox characters and their victories. Why not expand that concept?

 

[ryuu seika]

Because Nintendo prefers party battles?

I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy it, I'm just saying that I think it's unlikely that they'd specifically give a bonus to 1 on 1 fights when that's not the intended style of play.

 

[Airik]

That would be amazing, but I doubt we'd ever see that. It would be pretty cool though if Nintendo did improve the online features A LOT more so we could possibly download different characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Because Nintendo prefers party battles?

I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy it, I'm just saying that I think it's unlikely that they'd specifically give a bonus to 1 on 1 fights when that's not the intended style of play.

I don't think four player battles were ever truly the intended style of play. Sure, it's advertised for having it, but it IS one of the few fighters out there that gives you this option.

IMO, the balancing, or whatever parts that were balanced, was for one on one play because:

1. Two characters fighting each other means no outside interference which means no ganging up.
2. It reduces all other random chances outside of metaplay.

That being said, it's just some extra fanservice. It would give some people the incentive to play one on one.

And personally, I always preferred one on one fights.

 

[Rychu]

Considering how few actually speak without text boxes...I don't know. I suppose LoZ and FE characters could get away with it..l

 

[ryuu seika]

Link most certainly could not!

 

[EpixAura]

I don't think four player battles were ever truly the intended style of play. Sure, it's advertised for having it, but it IS one of the few fighters out there that gives you this option.

IMO, the balancing, or whatever parts that were balanced, was for one on one play because:

1. Two characters fighting each other means no outside interference which means no ganging up.
2. It reduces all other random chances outside of metaplay.

That being said, it's just some extra fanservice. It would give some people the incentive to play one on one.

And personally, I always preferred one on one fights.

Fan service, or fanservice, because those are two very different things. Usually.

 

[Fawfulcopter]

I completely disagree with that philosophy. Maybe it's because I'm not a tourneyman, but I believe that the game was designed to be played with groups, and 1v1, and one-player modes were an afterthought. It's a party game first, and a serious fighter second.
How can anyone take an 8-inch-tall alien throwing what he believes to be carrots at a pink marshmallow that has eaten and stolen the powers and appearance of a giant green spiked Turtle seriously?

Alright, we haven't had a good old fashioned roster discussion in a while, so I'll just post what I believe to be a likely(Or at least possible) SSB4 roster, with a few of my preferences mixed in, and you can make what you wish of it.
All Brawl characters except Lucario return.
Newcomers are:
Toad
&Dixie(Gets added onto Diddy, as both a Tag-Team AND a Switch-Out(That is, ICs+Zelda))
Paper Mario
Tingle
Ridley
Medusa
Little Mac
Starfy
Samurai Goroh
Caeda(FE, placeholder for new FE lord; Although I do think if there is no new FE lord, she's most likely)
Zoroark
Meowth(Unless R/S remakes are happening around the same time; in that case, Deoxys, or another 3rd gen Pokemon)
Mega Man
Laughing dog(Duck Hunt, yes I'm kinda bringing this up, but we don't need a repeat of what happened last time)
Muddy Mole
Isaac
Villager

That's a total of 50 character spots, for a 5x10 grid, as well as 6 characters that don't appear on the CSS.
Perhaps you could download the ability to play as seperate Sheik, ZSS, Dixie, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.
Although I would like downloadable veterans(Pichu, Lucario, Mewtwo, Doc, Roy and Young link), they're kinda unlikely.

 

[SmashChu]

NEW TOPIC!

I was playing BlazBlue with some people online yesterday, and we were talking about how there was so much personality in the characters because of the added dialogue during the fights....................

NO

The only people who will care will be die hard Nintendo fans. It's just going to get in the way of the fighting and be a reason to turn the volume off.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wasn't flyinfilipino arguing this with you?

And you know, there is a little compromise called the off switch. Include this and whiners like you won't have anything to complain.

 

[Supermario12]

I completely disagree with that philosophy. Maybe it's because I'm not a tourneyman, but I believe that the game was designed to be played with groups, and 1v1, and one-player modes were an afterthought. It's a party game first, and a serious fighter second.
How can anyone take an 8-inch-tall alien throwing what he believes to be carrots at a pink marshmallow that has eaten and stolen the powers and appearance of a giant green spiked Turtle seriously?

Alright, we haven't had a good old fashioned roster discussion in a while, so I'll just post what I believe to be a likely(Or at least possible) SSB4 roster, with a few of my preferences mixed in, and you can make what you wish of it.
All Brawl characters except Lucario return.
Newcomers are:
Toad
&Dixie(Gets added onto Diddy, as both a Tag-Team AND a Switch-Out(That is, ICs+Zelda))
Paper Mario
Tingle
Ridley
Medusa
Little Mac
Starfy
Samurai Goroh
Caeda(FE, placeholder for new FE lord; Although I do think if there is no new FE lord, she's most likely)
Zoroark
Meowth(Unless R/S remakes are happening around the same time; in that case, Deoxys, or another 3rd gen Pokemon)
Mega Man
Laughing dog(Duck Hunt, yes I'm kinda bringing this up, but we don't need a repeat of what happened last time)
Muddy Mole
Isaac
Villager

That's a total of 50 character spots, for a 5x10 grid, as well as 6 characters that don't appear on the CSS.
Perhaps you could download the ability to play as seperate Sheik, ZSS, Dixie, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.
Although I would like downloadable veterans(Pichu, Lucario, Mewtwo, Doc, Roy and Young link), they're kinda unlikely.

I like the Download Veterans Idea, that's be cool. But theres ppl that should get in before some people you have up there.

King k Rule? Bowser Jr? If there is to even be another ZoL Rep it should be Vaait. If Pit's new game goes over well and maybe one or two come out after that, why not Eggplant Wizard or the light Queen (Palthena) or even Medusa. Who knows what roles they'll have. No Megaman, to many 3rd parties. Isaac would be great to have. How about Tom Nook or even K.K Slider, they have been in Every AC game. If they Give Ganondorf his Own Move set then i'd say put Black Shadow in with Ganon's moveset. And i think we Need Ridly.

 

[Shorts]

I like the Idea of Dialogue, it makes me giddy whenever I hear two characters exchange words in the DBZ games. I think it's a good idea, if not for the fact that a lot of the characters are silent. Mario, Fire Emblem, Pokemon Trainers and few others talk. But we have Pokemon and Kirby characters who don't speak english (most of them, excluding Lucario/Metaknight) and then Link's creator refuses to give him a voice. I was thinking something like in some of the street fighters when Ryu and Ken would battle, they would Grab each others hands. I was thinking that certain characters would have a unique after-entrance type thing. Whether it be talking, or glances ect. Like maybe Mario pops out of his pipe, and bowser walks through his plames like usual, but they turn and face each other. Bowser lets out a laugh/roar and Mario raises a flame fist?

I like the roster, it's a pretty decent one. I would choose between toad an Paper Mario though, as well maybe changing the PT? That could get (Almost) every PKMN generation into Smash.

Pika Jiggs
Trainer Gold
Deoxys/Gardevior/other
Zorobarf/Victini/other

I love Meowth, and he is a good candidate but I just don't think we need Six Mario/Pokemon. I know they are important, arguably to most important, but five is enough. Ousting the cat and either Toad/PM leaves room for two more characters. Which one should be a third party considering you brought Sonic/Snake back. So Geno/Bomberman/Cassandra(SC) are my personal favorites. Megaman works too :/ Then the last could be someone like Prince Subure or Lip.
Meeep.

 

[SmashChu]

Wasn't flyinfilipino arguing this with you?

Does it matter.

And you know, there is a little compromise called the off switch. Include this and whiners like you won't have anything to complain.

That's not an excuse for bad design.

Fan service, or fanservice, because those are two very different things. Usually.

Care to explain?

 

[Arcadenik]

What is this "Black Plague" I am seeing everywhere on this thread? Is this related to April's Fools?

Edit... hmm.. it seems that if you type "t-h-i-s" without the dashes, it becomes "Black Plague". Watch... this.

Edit 2... yeah, I figured it out already. Never mind. :-P

 

[ryuu seika]

Worst april fools day ever!

 

[Big-Cat]

More like best April Fools Day ever.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, at least t-h-i-s year's April's Fools isn't breaking the Internet with lies like the "Sonic and Tails are in M-e-l-e-e" joke.

Edit: turns out if you typed "M-e-l-e-e" without the dashes, you get "Bawrl". Watch... Melee.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Depends on what you mean by dialogue between the characters (I'm not sure what it's like in Blazblue). But like someone said, most characters don't really talk anyway, so it probably wouldn't be that exciting.

That's not an excuse for bad design.

You just don't seem to be a fan of anything that's in non-Smash fighters.

Spoiler

Yay my post wasn't butchered by April Fool's

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, that was the impression I was getting from Smashchu over the months... what with his rejecting nearly every single idea that came from non-Smash fighting games.

 

[Big-Cat]

Depends on what you mean by dialogue between the characters (I'm not sure what it's like in Blazblue). But like someone said, most characters don't really talk anyway, so it probably wouldn't be that exciting.

The dialogue in BlazBlue isn't a whole lot. At most, you'll have different dialogue in place where it was before. For example, for one of Tsubaki's attacks, if she's fighting Jin, she'll call his name out longingly instead of shouting the attack name.

Of course,the level of dialogue is all matchup based. Noel-Tager won't have anything special, but Taokaka-Litchi will.

Alternatively, you can go the 3rd Strike route for some characters where you have a special intro for them. Maybe some dialogue, but not necessary.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed his extreme bias.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Dialogue between characters seem like a refreshing idea, and I'm honestly open to it. Of course, there are those characters who are probably better off not saying much, like Link, Ganondorf, Olimar, etc.. I can only begin to imagine dialogue exchanged between characters, like Snake/ZZS, Mario/Luigi, Fox/Falco/Wolf, and the combination can really go on.

 

[BirthNote]

I like the dialogue idea. Here's a list of all the characters it would apply to. The names that have the colon ":" next to them would show who they'll probably speak to.

Mario: Luigi, Peach, Wario, Bowser (think along the lines of Mario 64's "So long King Bowser!"), Sonic
Luigi: Peach, Mario, Bowser, Wario (perhaps. Not too sure)
Peach: Mario, Luigi, Bowser. Doubt she'd speak to Wario.
Wario: Mario, Luigi
Marth: umm...someone who speaks Japanese?
Ike: Metaknight and other swordsmen except Link
Pokemon Trainer: the Trainer that they're battling.
Lucario: Other Lucarios perhaps?
Metaknight: Kirby (not too sure about this. The conversation will be very one-sided), other swordsmen such as Ike
Snake: Zero Suit Samus, and based on the codecs, everyone tbh because he's been briefed about them.
Sonic: Mario, Snake (who simply dislikes Sonic)
ZS Samus: Snake I guess
Fox: Falco, Wolf
Falco: Fox, Wolf
Wolf: Fox, Falco
Pit: Don't know
Captain Falcon: Don't know

So that's the list. Any suggestions, comments, complaints or criticisms?

 

[SmashChu]

Depends on what you mean by dialogue between the characters (I'm not sure what it's like in Blazblue). But like someone said, most characters don't really talk anyway, so it probably wouldn't be that exciting.



You just don't seem to be a fan of anything that's in non-Smash fighters

Isn't it obvious. The other fighting games really aren't breaking any records. They pander to the same shrinking fan base.

Plus, this has nothing to do with improving the game. People buy games (funny enough) for the game.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Mario: Luigi, Peach, Wario, Bowser (think along the lines of Mario 64's "So long me Bowser!"), Sonic

It's actually, "so long, King Bowser". Other than that, the rest are fine.

 

[BirthNote]

lol. All these years I thought he said the other thing. I'll edit it.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Isn't it obvious. The other fighting games really aren't breaking any records. They pander to the same shrinking fan base.

Plus, this has nothing to do with improving the game. People buy games (funny enough) for the game.

So pretty much all fighting games that aren't Smash Bros. are worthless, hm? Yeah, it's obvious what you're biased towards.

And I don't even know what you're implying with that last sentence. Actually, we all do, but we've all heard the "The gameplay is the only thing that people buy the game for" argument. I'm sure the games would sell just as well without using any Nintendo characters at all. How's that for abolishing useless fan service?

 

[Fawfulcopter]

I like the Download Veterans Idea, that's be cool. But theres ppl that should get in before some people you have up there.

King k Rule? Bowser Jr? If there is to even be another ZoL Rep it should be Vaait. If Pit's new game goes over well and maybe one or two come out after that, why not Eggplant Wizard or the light Queen (Palthena) or even Medusa. Who knows what roles they'll have. No Megaman, to many 3rd parties. Isaac would be great to have. How about Tom Nook or even K.K Slider, they have been in Every AC game. If they Give Ganondorf his Own Move set then i'd say put Black Shadow in with Ganon's moveset. And i think we Need Ridly.

My earlier builds had Junior and K. Rool, but I decided on Toad and Paper Mario in their place. Why?
Well, Toad is my personal preference and through my eyes, they're equally likely; Toad for seniority, his own game and appearances in SMB2 and NSMBW. Paper Mario over K. Rool because Papes has his own games, the Mario RPGs are as of yet unrepresented and I don't think Geno or Fawful are likely at this juncture, as well as his new game coming out.
I chose tingle over Vaati because he's more major, and appeared in more games. Although I've technically got him in his own series, due to his, oh yeah, FOUR GAMES OF HIS OWN.
I already have Medusa and an Animal Crossing character(The Villager), as well as Ridley and Isaac.
Clones are NOT EVER A GOOD IDEA. I've got all clones removed in my roster. It amazes me that people against clones suggest Black Shadow over Goroh, who's more important, in more games, and would be more original.
Also, really? An entire THREE third parties is too much? Especially since number 3 is Mega Man, who has a...98.7% chance of being awesome.


Also, isn't it 'So long, gay bowser'? Lol

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I missed this bit about extra dialogue for certain situations due to International Act Like a ****** Day. Is it basically just more easter eggs along the lines of the Star Fox victory quotes?

 

[DekuBoy]

Yeah, but I think Kuma was suggesting it during battles.

 

[SmashChu]

So pretty much all fighting games that aren't Smash Bros. are worthless, hm? Yeah, it's obvious what you're biased towards.

You don't understand.

Fighting games are a niche. Fighting games regularly get beaten in sales by WWE and DBZ games. Now, we have "hey guys, I like this unsuccessful niche game. Let's take elements from it and put into the successful game." By me saying that, people go "OMG Smashchu is SO BIASED." Fact it, we are talking about stealing the playbook of the losing team.

And I don't even know what you're implying with that last sentence. Actually, we all do, but we've all heard the "The gameplay is the only thing that people buy the game for" argument. I'm sure the games would sell just as well without using any Nintendo characters at all. How's that for abolishing useless fan service?

Sales will not go up because Pit and Meta-Knight talk to each other. Fact is that people buy games for the game part. Adding "talking" will do nothing to help the game but could be annoying enough to drive everyone else away. No one cares what the characters have to say to each other. They just want to fight.

 

[flyinfilipino]

You don't understand.

Fighting games are a niche. Fighting games regularly get beaten in sales by WWE and DBZ games. Now, we have "hey guys, I like this unsuccessful niche game. Let's take elements from it and put into the successful game." By me saying that, people go "OMG Smashchu is SO BIASED." Fact it, we are talking about stealing the playbook of the losing team.

Sales will not go up because Pit and Meta-Knight talk to each other. Fact is that people buy games for the game part. Adding "talking" will do nothing to help the game but could be annoying enough to drive everyone else away. No one cares what the characters have to say to each other. They just want to fight.

No, I don't think you understand. Conversely, sales won't "go down" because of a minor Easter egg. Sales won't "go down" because you associate these things with fighting games that don't sell as much as Smash Bros. That's just stupid.

Take the music from Brawl, for example. There was a ridiculous amount of composition that went into making the hundreds of songs in the game. Does the music directly affect the game play at all? Not a bit. But does it add to the experience of the game? Heck yes. Do fans enjoy it? Heck yes. Did it hurt sales to add this ridiculous amount of various songs, some popular and some rather obscure, to please the Nintendo fanbase? No.

"Talking" to each other is something that's already in Brawl to begin with, to an extent. Did Snake's extended taunt at Shadow Moses Island "hurt sales"? Did the Starfox/Wolf team's special victory taunts at each other "hurt sales"?

Is having an alternate costume based on Daisy for Peach "hurting sales"?
Is giving Olimar's Pikmin the ability to grow flowers "hurting sales"?
Does Pokemon Trainer's issuing of commands to his Pokemon as he sends them out/recalls them "hurting sales"?
Does Diddy Kong's idle pose being taken from Donkey Kong Country "hurt sales"?

What if we just took away all the Nintendo references and replaced everyone with Fighting Wireframes and Alloys? No Nintendo stages, no music, no nothing, but the gameplay remains the same. Now that all that extra stuff is gone, surely the game's sales will go up, right?

 

[ryuu seika]

Can I just point out that I much preferred Melee's music to Brawl's? I know that's not your main point but I felt I had to counter that "fan's enjoy Brawl's music" claim of yours.

 

[Big-Cat]

SmashChu, for everything you don't like, you always say it "hurts sales". Can't you just say you don't like something instead of spewing business bull crap?

And I like Brawl's soundtrack more than Melee. More diversity.

 

[Jaklub]

SmashChu, for everything you don't like, you always say it "hurts sales". Can't you just say you don't like something instead of spewing business bull crap?

I think it's because Nintendo mainly cares about money