[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

You know what the funny thing is? Jigglypuff, the one character pretty much agreed to be the queen of the air, is one of the worst characters in the game. You'd think she'd be up there with Meta Knight, but apparently the nerfs on her Rest and the reduction of hitstun screwed her up big time.

 

[UberMario]

But at the same time, she's one of the best characters in Melee due to her aerial abilities, in fact they have her right up with Fox and Falco now on the BBR Melee Tier List. The main reason she's so low in Brawl is because her WoP doesn't do to much damage and her only reliable killer, Rollout, is too predictable. She's like a really slow and range-deficient Sonic, having to chip away a LOT of damage before making the kill.

 

[Snipe]

Rayman Movesets

If they were actually gonna make a new ssb game "Rayman should be in and these should be his movesets

RAYMAN

Overview:

Rayman, the limbless wonder, is a fairly balanced character with a variety of wacky moves.* Due to his lack of substance, he is fairly light.* To make up for his launchability (is that a word?), he has good recovery.

Entrance:

His body parts all zoom in from different directions on the screen.

Colors:

Normal (red)

Blue: His backpack and shoes turn blue.

Light: His backpack, shoes, and skin turn pale yellow.

Dark: Looks like Anti-Rayman.

Unlockable:

1. Obtain all the boss trophies.

2. Play 850 vs. Matches

3. After completing Subspace emissary, go through a secret door in the Great Maze and beat him in a fight.

A Moves:

A: Jab-Quickly jabs with his fist.* 3%-5% damage.

A+A: Double Punch-Hits with his left then right fists.* 6%-10% damage.

A+A+A: Combo-Does a two punch one kick combo.* 9%-13% damage.

Side A: Kick-Kicks forward.* 7%-9% damage.

Up A: Headbutt-His head does a complete flip, inflicting damage.* 6%-8% damage.

Down A: Foot Sweep-Performs a foot sweep.* 5%-8% damage.

Dash A: Tackle-Tackles directly in front of him.

Smash Attacks:

Side Smash: Body Blow-Forcefully projects his body forward.* 13%-15% damage.

Up Smash: Uppercut-Performs an uppercut.* 14%-17% damage.

Down Smash: Spin-Kick-Spins his feet around, damaging whoever is immediately surrounding him.* 12%-14% damage.

Aerial Attacks:

Neutral: Spin-Punch-His fists spin around his body.* 8%-10% damage.

Side: Right Hook-Performs a right hook.* 9%-12% damage.

Up: Chopper-Spins his hair around, damaging anything touching it.* Anything directly above him will be lifted higher into the air.* 1% damage per hit.

Down: Dual Kick-Kicks with both feet.* 8%-11% damage.

B Moves:

Neutral: Charge Fist-Throws his fist.* You can hold B to charge the move, resulting in more power and range.* At full charge, the fist will be armored with metal spikes.* 5% damage min, 20% damage max. Can also move while charging.

Side: Shock Rocket-Dons the shock rocket outfit from Rayman 3 and shoots a controllable shock rocket.* It gains power but loses maneuverability with time.

Up: Helicopter Hair-Twirls his hair like helicopter blades.* He rises for a while, then glides back down as long as the button is held.

Down: Shoe Shot[Explosive]-Rayman shrinks down inside his shoe and rides along the ground, following the curves of the environment like a green shell.* If he hits someone, the shoe will explode, and Rayman will revert to normal size.* He will also grow large again if you release the button.* 25% damage.

Grabs/Throws:

Rayman uses his lockjaw powerup to grab (it can also be used as a grapple).

Hit: Shock[Electric]-He shocks the the victim.* 3% damage per shock.

Side Throw: Launch-He spins around to gain power, then throws the enemy to the side like a shotput.

Up Throw: Juggler-He flings the enemy into the air with the lockjaw.

Down Throw: Slam-He slams the enemy face-first into the ground with the lockjaw.

Taunts:

Up: Juggles his body for a moment.

Side: Sticks his absurdly long tongue out as in the Rayman series.

Down: Creates an small energy ball, then throws it away.

Victory Poses:

1. Performs a backflip, saying, "All Right!"

2. Gives the thumbs up, saying, "Yay Me!"

3. Breakdances for a while.

Final Smash:

Energy Ball Ray: The-circle on Rayman's shirt start to glow yellow and a giant energy ball shoots out and smaller energy balls spread around the map(You may also move the "giant" energy ball up and down). Anything that touches it will stay shocked in the energy ball until it explodes sending the opponent flying.

!!!!I SUPPORT RAYMAN ALL THE WAY!!!!

 

[DekuBoy]

'points to moveset thread'

I appreciate the developers attempt to make aerial combat more dynamic but the change in gameplay physics for their system to work is irritating.

 

[Big-Cat]

I still think they should look at other fighting games to see how they worked out. That's not to say that they should copy them, but gather information on how to make a system they like. I think some places to look at are Marvel 3, Guilty Gear (both have a good aerial emphasis) and Street Fighter (which has more ground emphasis in comparison). I'm not sure whether to suggest Marvel 2 since it's universally agreed to be an accident. Oh, and Melee too.

 

[ryuu seika]

I think it would be a good idea for a mandatory tutorial the first time you boot the game up. Then new players can get a grip of the gameplay before heading straight to a match.

I'd say "Urgh" but considering the scenario last time I played 4 way smash "how come you've not lost a life yet?" "I know how to jump." I guess it's not so bad an idea.

 

[UberMario]

Or better yet, just make it run a tutorial after playing a demo reel, so that people that have played before aren't annoyed off from the start.

 

[DekuBoy]

Well if it asks first whether you are new to Smash Bros or a veteran and then can base the tutorial on the basics/newthings respectively.

 

[Siobud]

it's been a LONG time since i've been on this thread, let alone this website, and i'm surprised this topic is still going, i thought by now ppl would stop having ssb4 fever. i love the thought of a new smash bros... i absolutly love every ssb game, but this topic is (in a way) a lost cause. as i read these post i relize most ppl are actually getting off topic and talking about other unrelated things.

Now don't hate on me, i'm not here to complain about the thread . I really came here to talk about the probability of another smash bros. game. it's obvious to notice every new nintendo console has a smash bros. game, so nintendo is not going to break that tridition. The 3 top competing next gen consoles are at the current hight of gaming. everyone has already switched to motion gaming (witch i really hate) without bringing out a new console. I dout anyone will be coming out with another gaming console any time soon. Especially Nintendo with thier incredibly high sales. So really is nintendo going to put out another console.

This is what Nintendo should do. Wait for a little while to see how the playstation move and 360 kinect sell. Then put out a new HD console with no motion gaming out and make it's flagship game "SSB4". This (in my oppinion) would put nintendo over the top in sales and respect from gamers of hardcore nintendo and other gamers alike.

 

[n88]

@Siobud

Three games on separate consoles isn't that strong of a tradition. And we've already seen two Galaxy games on the same platform, breaking the theory that the whole "one installment per console" thing applied to 3D Mario. I don't see any reason Smash should adhere to an unwritten, barely established rule like that. Mind you, it seems possible that SSB4 will end up on a new console, if only because it's going to be a while before it comes out, and the Wii is hardly new at the moment.

(Also, it would be foolish of Nintendo to abandon the huge casual fanbase brought in by the Wii/motion controls and try to appeal to a much, much smaller group. Nintendo shifting towards "hardcore" gamers would be like T-shirt-making companies focusing on shirts for people with four arms)

 

[UberMario]

The next game is 90% NOT going to be on the Wii. With Brawl coming out in the middle of it's presumed lifespan and SSB being available for download [complete with reconfigured controls similar to Melee's or Brawl's]. (I'm expecting the "WiiToo" to come out around 2012, being similar to the Wii but with more graphical beef, but I don't think the "PS4" or "XSphere" will come out any time soon, but I think that SSB4 will come out on the 3DS)

 

[SmashChu]

I still think they should look at other fighting games to see how they worked out. That's not to say that they should copy them, but gather information on how to make a system they like. I think some places to look at are Marvel 3, Guilty Gear (both have a good aerial emphasis) and Street Fighter (which has more ground emphasis in comparison). I'm not sure whether to suggest Marvel 2 since it's universally agreed to be an accident. Oh, and Melee too.

Just hoping in to point this out:

Smash Bros is the successful fighting game. Marvel is a niche game at best. Guilty Gear is very much a niche. Street Fighter can't even reclaim the fans it had in the 90s. None of your examples are evidence of successful games. They are evidence of what NOT to do.

You'll respond to "sales don't matter," but they very much do. These people are paid very well to make these decisions. Why copy the losers. Nintendo is doing great right now, while Capcom struggles. I do not think Capcom is a good role model in any sense. Plus, the only way you get more games is to sell them in the first place (why do you think it took about 8 years to make another).

In other words, if these companies want to be successful, they need to start studying what Smash did right. Their sales only go down. Smash has consistently gone up. Why is that?

Now, I bid you all adieu.
EDIT:One more

it's been a LONG time since i've been on this thread, let alone this website, and i'm surprised this topic is still going, i thought by now ppl would stop having ssb4 fever. i love the thought of a new smash bros... i absolutly love every ssb game, but this topic is (in a way) a lost cause. as i read these post i relize most ppl are actually getting off topic and talking about other unrelated things.

Now don't hate on me, i'm not here to complain about the thread . I really came here to talk about the probability of another smash bros. game. it's obvious to notice every new nintendo console has a smash bros. game, so nintendo is not going to break that tridition. The 3 top competing next gen consoles are at the current hight of gaming. everyone has already switched to motion gaming (witch i really hate) without bringing out a new console. I dout anyone will be coming out with another gaming console any time soon. Especially Nintendo with thier incredibly high sales. So really is nintendo going to put out another console.

This is what Nintendo should do. Wait for a little while to see how the playstation move and 360 kinect sell. Then put out a new HD console with no motion gaming out and make it's flagship game "SSB4". This (in my oppinion) would put nintendo over the top in sales and respect from gamers of hardcore nintendo and other gamers alike.

General answers
1)yeah, Nintendo will make another Smash bros eventually. It took them over 7 to make this one.
2)That isn't what Nintendo should do (HD console thing). Nintendo was successful because they went a different route. Why change that now?

 

[Starphoenix]

Just hoping in to point this out:

Smash Bros is the successful fighting game. Marvel is a niche game at best. Guilty Gear is very much a niche. Street Fighter can't even reclaim the fans it had in the 90s. None of your examples are evidence of successful games. They are evidence of what NOT to do.

You'll respond to "sales don't matter," but they very much do. These people are paid very well to make these decisions. Why copy the losers. Nintendo is doing great right now, while Capcom struggles. I do not think Capcom is a good role model in any sense. Plus, the only way you get more games is to sell them in the first place (why do you think it took about 8 years to make another).

In other words, if these companies want to be successful, they need to start studying what Smash did right. Their sales only go down. Smash has consistently gone up. Why is that?

Now, I bid you all adieu.
EDIT:One more


General answers
1)yeah, Nintendo will make another Smash bros eventually. It took them over 7 to make this one.
2)That isn't what Nintendo should do (HD console thing). Nintendo was successful because they went a different route. Why change that now?

What is with you and Kuma?

As far as what was being discussed I don't want Smash Bros to emulate the other fighting games (it can't anyways). I just want them to fix some of the gameplay issues that are present in this installment. I'm not too worried about it, this naturally occurs anytime there is a sequel.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well look who decided to leave VGChartz for a minute.

 

[Starphoenix]

It is funny to me the personal grudges some people within this thread have. Pieman and Warlord, and Kuma and Smashchu. Toise seems to be an opponent of everyone's for the most part, no surprise there. As for me I float in here every now and then, sprinkle a little bit of often ignored thoughts, and flutter away.

Typically I spend more time on Gamefaqs. Only difference there is I go by another name.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't care about what SmashChu says anymore. I know someone that holds a personal grudge with me for beating him in Street Fighter back in August. That's taking the top spot for my "people I don't like" list.

SmashChu can regurgitate all the Malstrom stuff he wants and it'll be falling on deaf ears. I'm sorry, SmashChu, but I'm leaving you.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I still think they should look at other fighting games to see how they worked out. That's not to say that they should copy them, but gather information on how to make a system they like. I think some places to look at are Marvel 3, Guilty Gear (both have a good aerial emphasis) and Street Fighter (which has more ground emphasis in comparison). I'm not sure whether to suggest Marvel 2 since it's universally agreed to be an accident. Oh, and Melee too.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai has been doing this already. Remember the little setup at his office with every console plus arcade sticks aplenty?

Keep in mind though that:

- Smash has enough foundational differences from those games that certain details might not translate well even if he wants to use them
- Smash doesn't really have any notable and similar games worth comparing itself to in terms of influence (IE no other big 2D "stage" fighters to bounce ideas with)
- Smash is always trying to differentiate itself through new ideas AND it's designed to be more accessible; Sakurai's likely avoiding various subtleties from whatever for that reason

Needless to say, there's bound to be hiccups with new ideas from each game. Just gotta have faith that the next one isn't something you'll hate.


Suddenly I remember why I hate talking about gameplay. Not because of Chu (well maybe because of Chu), but because it feels like trying to guess how your favorite band's new album is gonna sound. Drives me nuts.




@Star: You make it sound like I hate you guys! I do criticize/argue with anyone I can though.


Somewhat off-topic, who wants to make an actual money wager via Nintendo points on whether or not K. Rool shows up in DKCR? Surely one of you has $5-10 in gumption?

 

[ElPanandero]

I'd take you up on that, but
I can't get my wii to connect.

 

[DekuBoy]

I would but I'm a wuss. I'm glad I have no 'rivalries' if that's what we call fanboy arguments now.

Face it, the only thing we can really try to predict is the weather. But when a new Smash is announced we can go nuts.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I DON'T WANT YOUR FILTHY EURO POINTS

Spoiler

I'm curious if we'd be region-locked from sending games, I really wanna know now

@Panera: You could probably bring your Wii to a friend's house just for wifi, or if you're a college kid stuck on campus, wait for holiday vacationings.

 

[Starphoenix]

I know you don't hate us Toise. :3

My personal guess is K. Rool will return as a hidden boss. There was something interesting that happened over at Gamefaqs that has caused me to consider the situation to be even more plausible.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just saw a screenshot of the new BlazBlue character, Platinum the Trinity (long story).

Never mind that she's trolling Ragna to hell and back. Look at the Next above her meter. I wonder what it would be like if characters with Random draws like Peach, Dedede, and Olimar had this and I can definitely see the pros and cons about this:

1. You know what you have coming up so you don't have to rely on the Heart of the Cards to get the right version you want in the right situation.
2. Your opponent knows what you have meaning that their options are limited.
3. Your opponent knows what you have so they'll try to get you into situations where you can't use the attack.

 

[fenyx4]

My personal guess is K. Rool will return as a hidden boss. There was something interesting that happened over at Gamefaqs that has caused me to consider the situation to be even more plausible.

I really wish that happened. The only thing really bugging me is Kensuke Tanabe, a Nintendo manager who has collaborated with Retro Studios, stating that "There will be no alligators in this game," referencing the upcoming Donkey Kong Country Returns, the fourth installment in the Donkey Kong Country series.

http://kotaku.com/5572645/their-orders-are-to-make-a-better-donkey-kong-country?skyline=true&s=i

I'm very disappointed (and a bit irritated) that King K. Rool and the Kremlings won't be present in the game (unless Shigeru Miyamoto could possibly push for K. Rool's inclusion as a hidden boss before the game's release? ) I haven't even played Donkey Kong Country, yet I read that the Kremlings were the primary antagonists of the game (as well DKC2 and DKC3). IMO, that's like SSB4 having no Master Hand present. Additionally, I'd like the Kremlings to be featured in some form in DKCR, considering they apparently were a major part of the original game and 2 of the sequels, as well as said inclusion possibly boosting the chances of King K. Rool being present in SSB4 as a possible playable character/combatant.

 

[ryuu seika]

(I don't think the "PS4" or "XSphere" will come out any time soon, but I think that SSB4 will come out on the 3DS)

Glad to see my XSphere joke name caught on.

Anyway, I'm almost certain that the 3DS won't get a new SSB, despite being the first handheld truly capable of a great SSB game. I expect an enhanced port of the original instead.

I don't care about what SmashChu says anymore. I know someone that holds a personal grudge with me for beating him in Street Fighter back in August. That's taking the top spot for my "people I don't like" list.

I just owned my SSB grudge this morning. He's been claiming he beat me for months despite never having faced him. I beat him badly and he didn't even care .

Anyway, I'm never seeing him again so my grudge spot is free right now.

 

[SmashChu]

What is with you and Kuma?

There is no grudge. Simply put, he said something wrong and I came in and tried to set it straight. The grudge is assumed by everyone else. If you were to say the same things he did, I would comment back in the same way.

In other words, it's the message, not the messenger.

 

[Starphoenix]

There is no grudge. Simply put, he said something wrong and I came in and tried to set it straight. The grudge is assumed by everyone else. If you were to say the same things he did, I would comment back in the same way.

What it is is you argued with Kuma over his ideas quite a few times in the past. So when you come back from having been absent for awhile what is it for? To knock Kuma over the head. It's just funny if anything else.

 

[Big-Cat]

If anything else, it's hunting in wait.

 

[UberMario]

Glad to see my XSphere joke name caught on.

Anyway, I'm almost certain that the 3DS won't get a new SSB, despite being the first handheld truly capable of a great SSB game. I expect an enhanced port of the original instead.

An enhanced port with improved graphics, more stages, music, and characters, and new effects pretty much would be a new game . . . . . .

(and lol, I used the word "but" wayyyyyyyyyyyy too many times in the post you quoted, I can't believe I didn't notice that when I was typing before. >_< )

 

[Claire Diviner]

A SSB port for the 3DS does sound appropriate. I mean, they're doing it for OoT, so why not SSB, along with Uber Mario's idea of new characters, stages, etc.?

Also, concerning a possible SSB4, I dunno if this was mentioned, but removing the time restriction for Replay Data will be so great, in my opinion... I'm sure that goes without saying, but still worth a mention nonetheless.

 

[ryuu seika]

A SSB port for the 3DS does sound appropriate. I mean, they're doing it for OoT, so why not SSB

That was my point really. Nintendo handholds are all about N64 ports these days so why not bring back the original Smash? Everyone loved it after all.

Also, they're bring back Zelda, Mario and Starfox N64 games so it fits in all the more.

along with Uber Mario's idea of new characters, stages, etc.?

His idea? I said enhanced port and he went into detail on what that meant, why does he get credit?

I'd expect Bowser and Gannondorf to be in it at the very least, probably retcon'd into Adventure mode too. Metallic Mine would probably be available in VS mode as it's a playable stage that would fit just fine and means less work on their part.

 

[Claire Diviner]

His idea? I said enhanced port and he went into detail on what that meant, why does he get credit?

I'd expect Bowser and Gannondorf to be in it at the very least, probably retcon'd into Adventure mode too. Metallic Mine would probably be available in VS mode as it's a playable stage that would fit just fine and means less work on their part.

Alright, you've a point on the enhanced port part, so you get the credit. I guess I overlooked it.

As for Bowser, Sakurai did mention that Bowser and Peach were originally going to be in SSB, but were left out due to time. I don't remember if he made any mention about Ganondorf (or Zelda, for that matter).

Metal Mine would be a great stage to have as a playable one. I've always liked the way it looked, and I also like the music; it's tied with Final Destination's theme as my favorite track in SSB. On that note, it goes without saying, but making Battlefield and Final Destination playable would be obvious no-brainers.

 

[Moogi]

I'd expect Bowser and Gannondorf to be in it at the very least, probably retcon'd into Adventure mode too. Metallic Mine would probably be available in VS mode as it's a playable stage that would fit just fine and means less work on their part.

Agreed. I'd rather that Smash 64 is a direct, enhanced graphical port, but other characters would be fine too.

Considering his 3DS status, we'd probably see Pit as well.

 

[ryuu seika]

Sakurai did mention that Bowser and Peach were originally going to be in SSB, but were left out due to time.

Good to know, we could expect them at the least then.

Metal Mine would be a great stage to have as a playable one. I've always liked the way it looked, and I also like the music; it's tied with Final Destination's theme as my favorite track in SSB. On that note, it goes without saying, but making Battlefield and Final Destination playable would be obvious no-brainers.

BF and FD would make sense and probably would be made unlockable, what with that being the case in later games.

Music wise, Dreamland and Rainbow Cruise are my favourites but the FD theme certainly gives it the epic mood it required and Metallic Mine has a great battle rendition of Empowered Mario (metal cap version).

Considering his 3DS status, we'd probably see Pit as well.

I would have hoped they'd keep it to people who might have madeit into the original, had it had a bigger roster, but Pit deffinitely has a good chance.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I think Pit, Dedede, and Mewtwo were rumored to be in 64 as well, but I could be wrong.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Only Bowser, Dedede, and Mewtwo.


edit: wrong link

 

[ryuu seika]

and Peach?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

No Peach, no Pit, no Meowth, no Sukapon, no Mr. Pibb.

 

[UberMario]

Peach is second on that list . . . . . . . . and Sukapon is there too, but excluding the voting, it does say under all of it that DeDeDe, Mewtwo, and Bowser were cut [no one else is mentioned in the sentence stating that].

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

because surprise surprise, that's the Melee poll

 

[ryuu seika]

Ok so we have Bowser, Mewtwo and Dedede to expect but I can't imagine them adding an odd number with that character select screen layout. Who'd be the fourth newcomer?