[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ToiseOfChoice]

I have an amazing headache, so bear with me.

Are people suggesting that, in order for stages (or some other stuff) to appear, they must have been related to a game that came out/ported between Brawl and Melee? Someone help me out before you all go to bed.


edit: shrink that guy, I hate having to block images from sites just to have a non-stretched page

 

[Pieman0920]

The whole recent thing doesn't quite apply to characters as it does to stages, and yes, there are stages that are indeed retro, but the vast majority aren't. There will by outliers, but they are just outliers. Thuuus, we could get a Other M stage and a Fusion stage, instead of Prime 3. We could get a Prime 3 stage and then a Metroid II stage. Not bloody likely, but it can happen.

For the most part, and I stress the qualifier of "most part", stages go into three groups: Based off of the most recent parts of series, based off of oldest part of series, and general representation of the series. on elements from each game. What qualifies for "series" may be a bit hazy, since I would say that you could separate Prime from the regular Metroid canon, just as easily as you would separate any of the Mario spin offs from the platformers. Also, I'd say that if the most recent iteration is already covered, then the next most recent may be taken as well (Pirate Ship) Of course, there are certain stages that don't hold true to these theoretical rules at all, such as Halberd, or Temple, but those are very few.

Also, while its clear that there was no requirement for stages to be based on games that came out between Melee and Brawl, I think there may have been a general theme for that. Nothing set in stone though.

Edit: Oh yeah, we need to see Little Birdie in Smash 4 in some form.....maybe he could be in a certain character's intro, where said character "pops" out of him.....though that's probably a bit too disgusting.

Double Edit: Oh yeah, trophies....well that wasn't really based on if the game was recent or not, but rather just based on if the game had character models to rip.

 

[Starphoenix]

In regards to stages I would like to see 3 things:

1: A Donkey Kong Country stage with no scrolling.
2: A new Metroid stage not set in a closed environment.
3: Give me Saturn Valley or bring back Fourside!


Off topic, listen to this Pokémon Black/White song. Does it sound familiar to anyone else? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4u6ht7TtVo

 

[ChronoBound]

So then I suppose your Meowth is thrown out of the window in favor of Zoroark and DENNIS!?

Wait. There's a written theory on this "recent" crap? The way it's being used, it seems you can't get anything in if it's older than two years and then you make the exception for "retro". Anyway, I still don't believe this as I feel these are interpretations that are getting way out of hand.

The only time the recent pattern does not hold up is when it comes to items, and obviously the music tracks were picked based on what the composers WANTED to remix (there was an interview with Yuzo Koshiro confirming this).

However, when it comes to stages and characters it is usually based on stuff that was made that was made after the previous Smash game was developed or released.

There are very few examples of advertising in Smash Bros., the most notable examples being Roy and the MGS4 content (which was likely included as a result of Kojima working closely with Sakurai on Brawl's Metal Gear content). Ike and Lucario probably were also advertisements as well, however, their games came out while Brawl was in development.

Kuma, please stop attacking me because you are wrong.

 

[sdfsdfsd]

On topic, random tripping needs to die, but stuff like the banana tripping is a pretty cool addition to the game imo.
ray bans
polo lacoste
nike rift

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Pieman: There we go, that's what I was looking for in an answer, and that's pretty much what I agree with, at least in comparison to Arc's VC theory and whatnot.


@CB: I know you're crazy and everything so I probably won't get an answer that makes sense, but why do you always take criticism personally? What's with the attitude?


@Star: Does BW have a Battle Frontier/random online fight dealie where you can actually use all six of your Pokemon instead of three?

 

[ChronoBound]

@CB: I know you're crazy and everything so I probably won't get an answer that makes sense, but why do you always take criticism personally? What's with the attitude?

I think you should ask Kuma the same question. I personally don't take what you two always arguing against me as something personal, I personally just find it juvenile and I generally ignore stuff like that. What I find personally amusing is when you I make arguments against the characters that Kuma suppots, and it puts him into a rage.

Also, calling another user "crazy" is an insult you know, but I guess personal insults is the last line of defense against someone winning an argument.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

So it looks like "answer that doesn't make sense" is a go.

I mean, I rib on people for being deluded or extra passionate or whatever, but you're really pushing a whole new level of living in your own world.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, I totally raise a hissy fit when you say something I don't like. It's called disagreement. I don't have to like anything that you say.

I have the right to say that I consider your theories flawed and as results of interpretations gone way too far such as your roster placement theory.

Anyway, I like Pieman's explanation. Nothing's set in stone other than a somewhat high probability. And besides, Brawl missed out on some good stage locations like Sauria, Phendera Drifts, and Saturn Valley.

 

[jahkzheng]

We got a stage from Metroid Prime which came out six years before Brawl came out. I don't think this whole "recent" thing you and Chronobound have really holds up that much water.

In Chrono's defense, he was mentioned by name xD
But I suppose that's for some legitimate reason that I don't pay much attention to - I usually just skip over that kind of thing when browsing the thread

I mostly agree with Pieman though. The emphasis on recent games in the smash series is kind of a style tendency more then anything, not so much a rule of smash.

However... I very much disagree with Pieman's "little birdie" idea, lmao.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yeah, I totally raise a hissy fit when you say something I don't like. It's called disagreement. I don't have to like anything that you say.

I have the right to say that I consider your theories flawed and as results of interpretations gone way too far such as your roster placement theory.

I have a far better track record when it comes to making accurate decisions than you do, and most Smash fans in general. I have done roster predictions since the Melee days, and I have been considerably skilled at it.

Also, that roster placement theory was made over two years ago (my stance since then has changed quite a bit), and the theory itself might hold considering that Sakurai is pretty eccentric himself. For example, the main reason as to why Sakurai even included Dr. Mario was because he initially got the idea from a Japanese Smash fan whom wanted Dr. Mario to be included as a costume for regular Mario. Sakurai's response to that was, "but Dr. Mario does not throw fire balls...." Sakurai did end up including Dr. Mario because he really like the remix for the Dr. Mario Fever theme that was made for Melee, however, the initial idea that was set in his head was probably from that Japanese Melee fan who only wanted to see Doc in as a costume.

It seems that both you and Toise always try to argue with me for the sake of arguing with me, and will even bring me up even when I am not present in the present conversation. I find both of your behaviors very laughable.

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh come on, Little Birdie/Choogle would be epic. It looks around walking and then it starts gnawing on the nearest sap.

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh come on, Little Birdie/Choogle would be epic. It looks around walking and then it starts gnawing on the nearest sap.

If there is anything from Other M that should be an Assist Trophy, its probably Higgs, who would most likely use the plasma gun as his primary means of attack.

Though personally, I would want to see Dark Samus as an Assist Trophy considering that I really want to see the Prime series get some more content, plus the Prime series represents a high point for the series.

 

[jahkzheng]

^ that last part... I absolutely agree with. I like the other ideas as well, but I know a few people here would rather have Higgs as a character - I'm probably more in favor of the AT though.

Here's to hoping there is an epic Prime series stage in the next Smash - and if I'm really dreaming, my Skytown idea xD.

 

[ChronoBound]

^ that last part... I absolutely agree with. I like the other ideas as well, but I know a few people here would rather have Higgs as a character - I'm probably more in favor of the AT though.

Here's to hoping there is an epic Prime series stage in the next Smash - and if I'm really dreaming, my Skytown idea xD.

If a Prime stage location were to be used, I would choose an area based on one of the series most praised locales such as the Phendrana Drifts or Sanctuary Fortress. Personally, I found the locales in Prime 3 to be weaker than the first two games.

Also, in regards to alternative characters choices for Metroid, the only other name I see thrown around is Dark Samus. Even Sylux (who is much less requested than Dark Samus) I have seen slightly mentioned more than Higgs, however, I think Higgs will end up being more requested than Sylux once Other M becomes better known.

 

[jahkzheng]

Emphasis on the "if I'm really dreaming" part.

I think Prime 3 will get more consideration based on your recent reps theory. Prime 1 is obviously the best known and Phendrana would be cool... but Orpheon already exists. I think a Sanctuary Fortress stage would be epic but I find that despite being an awesome game, imo, Prime 2 is often overlooked and underrated. Your opinion that Prime 3 has weaker locales then the other two Primes is somewhat shared on my end... but I also think Skytown was probably the best/most interesting locale in all three games - followed closely by Sanctuary Fortress and Phendrana Drifts.

 

[ChronoBound]

Emphasis on the "if I'm really dreaming" part.

I think Prime 3 will get more consideration based on your recent reps theory. Prime 1 is obviously the best known and Phendrana would be cool... but Orpheon already exists. I think a Sanctuary Fortress stage would be epic but I find that despite being an awesome game, imo, Prime 2 is often overlooked and underrated. Your opinion that Prime 3 has weaker locales then the other two Primes is somewhat shared on my end... but I also think Skytown was probably the best/most interesting locale in all three games - followed closely by Sanctuary Fortress and Phendrana Drifts.

I agree that if any new stages based on the Prime series were to be chosen it would probably be one based on Prime 3. However, I mentioned in that post, that Phendrana Drifts or Sanctuary Fortress would be MY choice.

I also agree that Prime 2 is very underrated. That game had some of the best environments and boss fights (Quadraxis particuarly comes to mind) in the entire Metroid series.

 

[Pieman0920]

@Kuma: I think he was disagreeing with my idea for Little Birdie being a part of a certain character's intro....which I myself think may be a bit extreme so I won't push the idea. Even if Little Birdie were to not get in as an AT though, he might work well as a background character if the Other M stage is the Biosphere.

 

[Starphoenix]

Ahhhh Sanctuary Fortess, I have a vision how such a stage should be developed. You start out in the elevator where you fight Drak Samus. The platform rising to the top with glimpses of the background being seen through windows on the background. Once you reach the top it opens up for a wider environment with platforms. In the backdrop you'll have the broken bridge, all of the lights and architecture, the cybernetic auroras zig-zagging vertically, and the occasional Ing crawling in the background.

Plus the music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6OTbdgt_Ms

 

[ChronoBound]

Ahhhh Sanctuary Fortess, I have a vision how such a stage should be developed. You start out in the elevator where you fight Drak Samus. The platform rising to the top with glimpses of the background being seen through windows on the background. Once you reach the top it opens up for a wider environment with platforms. In the backdrop you'll have the broken bridge, all of the lights and architecture, the cybernetic auroras zig-zagging vertically, and the occasional Ing crawling in the background.

Plus the music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6OTbdgt_Ms

Excellent stage idea, however, the only correction I would make would be about an Ing crawling in the background, since Ing can't survive in the Light World and need to possess a Light World creature in order to attack beings from that dimension.

The Dark Samus fight on that elevator was among the best boss fights in the entire Metroid series. I also think the Dark Samus theme would be good fight music for a Sanctuary Fortress stage.

 

[Starphoenix]

Excellent stage idea, however, the only correction I would make would be about an Ing crawling in the background, since Ing can't survive in the Light World and need to possess a Light World creature in order to attack beings from that dimension.

The Dark Samus fight on that elevator was among the best boss fights in the entire Metroid series. I also think the Dark Samus theme would be good fight music for a Sanctuary Fortress stage.

Give me a break, it's been awhile since I played Echoes.

Fine there can be those electro-orbs enemies floating in the background then. Happy? lol


I have several different stage ideas I drew up pre-Brawl. My favorite being my Saturn Valley idea.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I have a far better track record when it comes to making accurate decisions than you do, and most Smash fans in general. I have done roster predictions since the Melee days, and I have been considerably skilled at it.

ChronoBound circa November 2007 sez:

Geno has the best chances out of all of the possible Mario newcomer characters.

I won’t be able decide definitively whether the DK series will get a third character unless the final character selection screen in unveiled or if K. Rool is deconfirmed.

Sadly, I feel that Krystal is the most likely Star Fox character that will be revealed soon.

There's more (just look at the list of "likely candidates" for some real doozies), but I like these three the most. You predicted the same stuff as everyone else in 2007, threw up a bunch of possibilities and said "it could happen, but it could also not happen!"

The K. Rool one is my favorite: "I won't actually guess anything until we've already seen the answer."

It seems that both you and Toise always try to argue with me for the sake of arguing with me, and will even bring me up even when I am not present in the present conversation. I find both of your behaviors very laughable.

But more importantly, this is the problem. You take this stuff way too seriously. You've probably written more essays about Smash than I did for college. You get incredibly defensive as soon as someone criticizes you, either calling someone immature/uninformed for doing so or bringing up your "credentials."

Worst of all, you can't resist in calling shenanigans the second Kuma or I say something that MIGHT have anything to do with you or something you believe in (and it usually doesn't). I've never seen such behavior out of anyone here except from that one guy who stalks (stalked?) Pieman over Dixie or something.

I argue with pretty much everyone here over something, but I'm not spiteful about it (and yes, that includes me calling them crazy/********/whatever; turns out some people are cool enough not to take insults seriously). Beefin ain't my thing and one-sided rivalries are even worse, so it'd be really sweet if you dropped this whole "STOP ATTACKING ME" schtick you've developed.



@stage discussion: I know I'm alone in this, but I'd like to see an underwater Metroid stage. Probably won't happen, but I liked Torvus Bog and Sector 4.

Then again, I'd just like an underwater stage in general, so yeah.

 

[Starphoenix]

You've never attacked me Toise. :3

Anyways, I think the Starfy series would probably bring a more aquatically focused stage.

 

[n88]

@Toise

MasterWarlord has bottomless pits of rage in place of various internal organs. I doubt he actively stalks Pieman over Dixie, but him missing a chance to bash someone he disagrees with would be odd.

Also, slightly more on topic, what are people thinking about Adventure Mode in SSB4? Predictions would be difficult, really, so I'm just curious about opinions. I think I'd like to see something a little more extensive than Melee's Adventure Mode, but not quite as big as the SSE. And perhaps with a few character-unique elements, like maybe different bosses or varied Target Test-type mini-games.

 

[Big-Cat]

For whatever reason, I can't seem to remember much of Prime 2's music on the fly. Then again, Prime 2 was my least favorite of the trilogy (not counting crappy Hunters).

Toise, there's also Maridia from Super Metroid. I don't remember the answer you gave me the last time, but what do you mean by an underwater stage? Are we talking about everyone being floaty?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

You've never attacked me Toise. :3

Anyways, I think the Starfy series would probably bring a more aquatically focused stage.

Oh, but I have peepers. Peepers to watch.

Starfy would be good, do they have sharks in Starfy? I like it more Deep Blue Sea than Little Mermaid, but I guess I'd take anything underwater.

@Toise

MasterWarlord has bottomless pits of rage in place of various internal organs. I doubt he actively stalks Pieman over Dixie, but him missing a chance to bash someone he disagrees with would be odd.

Also, slightly more on topic, what are people thinking about Adventure Mode in SSB4? Predictions would be difficult, really, so I'm just curious about opinions. I think I'd like to see something a little more extensive than Melee's Adventure Mode, but not quite as big as the SSE. And perhaps with a few character-unique elements, like maybe different bosses or varied Target Test-type mini-games.

But how does he poop?


I'd actually kinda hope they make it like Kirby Super Star. Not SSE Dyna Blade, but more specifically the "bunch of smaller games" rather than one big long quest with lots of cutscenes and forced character selection. They could have a stage-based thing like with Melee, Great Cave sort of thing, some other modes that I don't feel like remembering, etc.

Easiest improvement would be Nintendo settings instead of generic town. And when I think varied bosses, I always think of Mother Brain or pretty much anything that doesn't rely on the Kirby formula (IE stand still for 5 seconds, attack, stand still, attack, hit me anywhere). Should be easy to come up with some.



@Kuma: I hate Maridia except for the music. Also I'm hoping more for the underwater aesthetic rather than any particular gimmick, though I bet they'd just do it Mega Man style (or just water being air).

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually, I hate Maridia as well. The colors and music just made me want to go to sleep. The music isn't bad, but it just made me sleepier.

I only brought Maridia up since it was a water place you didn't mention.

 

[UberMario]

Yeah, that would be interesting, the stories could intertwine like Dynablade and Revenge of Meta-Knight did.

(It's kind of ironic that you want it to be based off Kirby Super Star, considering:
-The platform and shielding mechanisms comes from that game
-Great Maze = Great Cave Offensive
-Tabuu = Marx
-The 2-P mechanism is nearly the sam
-The plot revolves around Kirby characters and locations for the most part
-Some of the enemies are akin to Gordos, while the single-wheeled enemy is similar to Wheelie.
-and some other stuff that I don't recall completely)

 

[ryuu seika]

Finally, an artstyle for Starfox that I can dig. Command was just so..... so ew.

That would be the one from the N64 version so it's not exactly new. Command was a terrible game though.

What do you guys think of adding Alucard from Coastlevania Series & Lloyd or Emil from Tales of Symphonia Series?

Don't know CV and I hated DNW but Emil could still work for Smash. The original ToS on the other hand was something I loved. Instant buy if it had Lloyd IMO.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Umberto: Guess I should've clarified more, but I meant the "eight games in one!" thing where you've got a ton of smaller modes, not the "let's use the Kirby engine" bit. Game definitely needs warp pipes and wall turkeys and whatnot though.

 

[ChronoBound]

ChronoBound circa November 2007 sez:

But more importantly, this is the problem. You take this stuff way too seriously. You've probably written more essays about Smash than I did for college. You get incredibly defensive as soon as someone criticizes you, either calling someone immature/uninformed for doing so or bringing up your "credentials."

Worst of all, you can't resist in calling shenanigans the second Kuma or I say something that MIGHT have anything to do with you or something you believe in (and it usually doesn't). I've never seen such behavior out of anyone here except from that one guy who stalks (stalked?) Pieman over Dixie or something.

I argue with pretty much everyone here over something, but I'm not spiteful about it (and yes, that includes me calling them crazy/********/whatever; turns out some people are cool enough not to take insults seriously). Beefin ain't my thing and one-sided rivalries are even worse, so it'd be really sweet if you dropped this whole "STOP ATTACKING ME" schtick you've developed..

On the K. Rool, thing I said it depended on whether the roster exceeded 36 slots, in which if it did not, it probably would be unlikely. Perhaps, the biggest surprise for me personally was Mewtwo getting cut (and even then Mewtwo was most likely the last of the Forbidden 7 to be scrapped). The only characters that were included with Brawl that I did not see coming were Snake, Zero Suit Samus, and ROB (due to him being deconfirmed as an enemy for the SSE). Pokemon Trainer actually was not surprising to me because Satoshi (Ash) ranked high on the Japanese Melee poll and Red (one of the default names for the Pokemon Trainer in Red/Blue/Green) was highly requested from what I observed on 2ch.

In 2007, I primarily put Japanese popularity as the biggest factor in determining a spot on the roster, and I thought that Sakurai would take the Brawl "journal" as literally as he did the Melee poll (in which most of the high ranked characters got in). Heck, high ranked characters on the Melee poll that did get in Melee (such as Wario and Pokemon Trainer) ended up getting in Brawl. However, even then Japanese opinion on a lot of things trumped Western thought (the exception being Sonic who 90% of his popularity comes outside Japan). Wolf, for example, was the de-facto third Star Fox character on Japanese Brawl roster wishlists instead of 50/50 Krystal and Wolf like it was in the West. So my Geno analysis was an err on my judgment for thinking that the Brawl "poll" would be as relevent as the Melee one.

Also, its very unprofessional and amateur to resort to personal insults, and I have been generally trying to refrain from that in the past two years. I try to employ constructive criticism when addressing the opinions of others in which I disagree in which I will elaborate on the items to which I agree with the poster and deconstruct the ideas on the things that I disagree with, and then finally offer an assessment of my own.

I usually write a lot in general, because I actually ENJOY writing. However, I do grow fatigued about writing about Smash Bros. because: 1. I have probably written about all there is talk about at least once, 2. I have been writing about it heavily since about 2004 (though I did some casual writing on Smash Bros. starting in 2001).

 

[Starphoenix]

@Toise: To my knowledge there are shark enemies in Starfy games.

@Kuma: I agree with you on Maridia, that place was the least exhilarating aspect of Super Metroid. I did however love the atmosphere of the crashed frigate in Metroid Prime. The music set such an ethereal tone.

 

[Pieman0920]

I haven't seen MasterWarlord in a while, but then again, I haven't really been on this topic as much lately, and don't generally talk about Dixie anyways. I guess the last thing I said regarding the subject would have been that DKReturns may influence the character selection in some way. (Most likely causing the DK series to not get a new character, if there isn't some secret hidden in there)

 

[UberMario]

@Umberto: Guess I should've clarified more, but I meant the "eight games in one!" thing where you've got a ton of smaller modes, not the "let's use the Kirby engine" bit. Game definitely needs warp pipes and wall turkeys and whatnot though.

I know what you meant. (and lol @ Umberto . . . . I assume that was the equivalent of calling me "Einstein" or "Sherlock" considering who he was . . . . . of course you didn't see that I agreed with your idea, but w/e, it's not like I was actually insulted by it)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Star: Are there? Sweet. Also just now I wondered why the Pirate Ship didn't have any sharks.

Yeah sharks are awesome.


@CB: You kinda missed the point... again. But whatever, just stop doing that move where you think people are talking crap about you all the time.


@Umberto: Not sure if you've noticed, but sometimes if I don't like how someone's abbreviated name sounds, I give them a sorta similar nickname. Has nothing to do with Eco or sarcasm though.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

If there is a SSB4, my only hope would be to play as Megaman X, Zero or both at the same time, much like Zelda / Sheik.

If they re-introduce the Final Smashes, Megaman X could use the Armor Upgrade from Megaman X2 as a Final Smash. In MMX2, the Armor Upgrade does not only decrease the damages taken from hits, it also has an energy meter that can be filled when taking hits. When it is filled, you can release a huge explosion that devastate everything in the screen. That can be pretty good as a Final Smash. Also, after that, Zero comes to replace Megaman X, exhausted by the explosion.

That's the only neat idea I have for now, though.

 

[Arcadenik]

Switching between Mega Man X and Zero? Why would this happen? They are not like Zelda / Sheik or Samus / Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Switching between Mega Man X and Zero? Why would this happen? They are not like Zelda / Sheik or Samus / Zero Suit Samus.

Well, in Megaman X3, X7 and onward, you could change between characters (the two of them + Axl in MMX7 and onward). Either that or they make separate characters, that's fine by me since these are the only characters I'm hoping for

 

[Pieman0920]

Bleh, maybe its because of my mood about the group of annoying people who wanted X in MvC3, but I don't particularly want X in SSB4. Its classic or bust, guys! Who's the version of MM who was there at the start of the NES? Who is the version of MM that just had two new games released recently, and is going to have a third released soon too? Who's the one who everyone regards as the classic version? Why its Classic Mega Man!

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Taken in consideration, the power-ups in the classic series can make Megaman a good competitor too (Tornado Hold, Broken Metal Blade, Top Spin (as a Neutral Aerial) or even the weapons from the Megaman Hunters in the GameBoy version of the classic series...)

We can also think about Protoman, Bass, or even a few robot masters for SSB4.