[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[UberMario]

That reminds me, can we get a Metroid stage that doesn't have lava or magma?

Welcome to Frigate Orpheon!


As for a DKR stage, yeah, I'd see it making more sense if it was static, but it could pull a Mute City if there are racers piloting airplanes around a track.

 

[Big-Cat]

Welcome to Frigate Orpheon!


As for a DKR stage, yeah, I'd see it making more sense if it was static, but it could pull a Mute City if there are racers piloting airplanes around a track.

I fixed it to clarify what I meant.

 

[UberMario]

I think the lava stages are entertaining, though a Metroid scrolling level would be better, it could work like this.

 

[DekuBoy]

I actually love Norfair. I don't think that the sidescrolling stages are very good though. Maybe a Metroid Other M stage? Problem is, nowhere sticks out. We need more Prime stages...

 

[Starphoenix]

That reminds me, can we have a game where we don't have a lava Metroid stage.

But yes, a static stage would be nice. What would be even better is if they can back to the way the SSB 64 stages were designed. Aside from a few stages like Brinstar Depths and Wispy Woods, the stages in that game really felt like they were part of the original games. The best examples would have to be Saffron City and Hyrule Castle, which also happen to be fan favorites.

I was hoping for Phendrana Drifts pre-Brawl, seemed like the perfect anti-magma/acid Metroid stage. Though I will personally say out of all of them Norfair is probably best one they have designed.

 

[DekuBoy]

Good point Kuma. I still don't understand where the statue in Delfino Plaza went.

 

[Big-Cat]

I actually love Norfair. I don't think that the sidescrolling stages are very good though. Maybe a Metroid Other M stage? Problem is, nowhere sticks out. We need more Prime stages...

I hate to contradict what I said earlier, but the area where Samus fights Ridley is probably a good place. It's hard to think of anything else because everything in that game doesn't seem iconic (it may in a few years).

Now that you mention it, where did that Delfino statue go?

I was hoping for Phendrana Drifts pre-Brawl, seemed like the perfect anti-magma/acid Metroid stage. Though I will personally say out of all of them Norfair is probably best one they have designed.

After playing Super and Zero Mission, the Norfair stage seems kind of bland to me because of their choice of colors for the platforms and the random magma waves. Not only that, but the way they organized the platforms seems kind of "unnatural".

I still think Phendera Drifts would be a good choice, and everyone loves the music in that area.

 

[LostAddict]

Yeah also not a big fan of Norfair. I think it's just cause I find it so blah layout wise.

I just want a good Donkey Kong level. They had amazing music choices in Brawl for Donkey Kong but that level sucks so hard so I never get to hear it. It's very frustrating.

Also, while talking about levels, I was so excited for stage builder when it was first announced. And then you get it and there's like 20 parts to choose from and that's it. I think everyone wants it to be better and way more customizable.

Just please make a good, static Donkey Kong level. It's all I want.

 

[UberMario]

Just please make a good, static Donkey Kong level. It's all I want.

The first three DK stages (Congo Jungle, Kongo Jungle, and Jungle Japes) were pretty static, of course that doesn't mean they should have made Brawl have no NEW competitively viable DK stages . . . . .

 

[Moogi]

*reappears*

Someone catch me up on what's happening?

 

[RVD_fan]

That reminds me, can we have a game where we don't have a lava Metroid stage.

But we need a lava/acid rising stage, it's classic!

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Apparently; stages.

I think with the 3DS games coming out, we might have some old stages, like SF64 for example, we might expect a stage from that if a new SSB was to come out soon, since even though it's just a port/remake, it's still considered new, so it's clear to expect a stage from that. Does anyone support that theory? =P

 

[LostAddict]

The first three DK stages (Congo Jungle, Kongo Jungle, and Jungle Japes) were pretty static, of course that doesn't mean they should have made Brawl have no NEW competitively viable DK stages . . . . .

Yeah, I meant a new one. My comment was more pertaining to the music idea behind it, that SSBB DonkeyKong stage (totally forget the name of it because it is just so useless) had like the best music but I never really listen to it due to the failure/suckage of said stage.

 

[ChronoBound]

Hmm. The Nintendo conference in Japan is over. Here are the biggest tidbits:

- 3DS will released late February in Japan, and in March for North American and Europe.
- 3DS costs about $300 in yen.
- Mega Man Legends 3 announced for the 3DS.
- Resident Evil: The Mercenaries announced for the 3DS (Revelations is also still in development for it, which means there are two Resident Evil games being developed for the 3DS).
- Rhythm Heaven for Wii announced.
- New Kirby for DS announced.
- Pokemon edutainment game for DS announced.
- No details on launch titles yet.

Nothing really to make speculation about based on these announcements.

Video of 3DS lineup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPCsFAmIxCM&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[Big-Cat]

Finally, an artstyle for Starfox that I can dig. Command was just so..... so ew.

 

[Starphoenix]

Hmm. The Nintendo conference in Japan is over. Here are the biggest tidbits:

- 3DS will released late February in Japan, and in March for North American and Europe.
- 3DS costs about $300 in yen.
- Mega Man Legends 3 announced for the 3DS.
- Resident Evil: The Mercenaries announced for the 3DS (Revelations is also still in development for it, which means there are two Resident Evil games being developed for the 3DS).
- Rhythm Heaven for Wii announced.
- New Kirby for DS announced.
- Pokemon edutainment game for DS announced.
- No details on launch titles yet.

Nothing really to make speculation about based on these announcements.

Video of 3DS lineup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPCsFAmIxCM&feature=player_embedded#!

I'm surprised you missed the one piece of information that could potentially impact the Smash Bros series the most. That being the return of Mii's on the 3DS.

 

[XxLucarioBaller420xX]

Lord help us if that nasty mewtwo thing makes it in.

 

[DekuBoy]

I wish we were getting a real Pilotwings game, not a Wuuhuu Island, Mii thing.

I'm pretty darn prepped about the 3DS. Want a portable Smash Bros with good online NOW.

 

[jahkzheng]

About Metroid stages...
(Prepares to talk at length and detail about something that is a thought and wish only)

In the whole Prime series, Skytown is probably the most awesome/usable place for a stage. It has iconic Chozo architecture, already sits in the sky, and has many "places" that can be used. Ideally, I would think that a moving platform exploring different parts of Skytown would be the stage's design.

I can think of six settings...
- the main spire dock: basically a flat large FD like stage
- a "bridge" stage with ziplines and spiderball tracks in the background: probably multiplatform, consisting of three or four of the those circular platforms found often bridging rooms in Skytown.
- the antenna: a single small stage floating in the air with rotating panels below the stage that can be temporarily stood on before they turn away/towards the camera and push you off - can be jumped through however.
- the observatory, with holographic planets in the background: a walled stage inside the observatory where the only KOs are off the top or high left or right
- xenoreaseach (a part of the lab exposed to the outside due to some previous damage): a stage with one side covered and visible through a window with the other side exposed to the air and being the prime KO side - Metroids pass through here and attack people occasionally.
- crane area: a place where the platform is ditched and there is a slow side scrolling bit reminiscent of RC. It starts with circular platforms, goes over a large platform, then around the crane that eventually moves its arm in position with the returning platform.

The moving platform could be a large object slightly smaller then Port Town's platform being towed around by the Samus' ship's grapple. It would be dropped off at these points and stay there until a small switch on a console a bit out of the way is jabbed or taunted next to, to move the platform forward. This makes it so that people can chose to stay at a location or move forward quickly.

So ends the description of my idealistic vision for a new Metroid stage
Sounds awesome, no?

 

[Starphoenix]

Sounds good to me

 

[miwjohnson]

What do you guys think of adding Alucard from Coastlevania Series & Lloyd or Emil from Tales of Symphonia Series?

 

[Moogi]

What do you guys think of adding Alucard from Coastlevania Series & Lloyd or Emil from Tales of Symphonia Series?

Simon Belmont before Alucard /end rant

And I'd only say Lloyd if Namco would be a good 3rd party choice for Smash. But... I don't know much about Namco to say whether Lloyd would be the best choice for character.

Besides, Megamans obviously more popular

*stays out of Metroid Stage

 

[Pieman0920]

Skytown is indeed an obvious choice. Almost as obvious as Spaceship Mario is for a new Mario stage. The only problem with Skytown is that its a Prime game (which the Japanese don't seem to fond of) and that its from a game that's starting to get old. If there aren't any new Metroid games between now and Smash4 though, I don't think that will matter.

 

[Big-Cat]

We got a stage from Metroid Prime which came out six years before Brawl came out. I don't think this whole "recent" thing you and Chronobound have really holds up that much water.

 

[Moogi]

Skytown is indeed an obvious choice. Almost as obvious as Spaceship Mario is for a new Mario stage. The only problem with Skytown is that its a Prime game (which the Japanese don't seem to fond of) and that its from a game that's starting to get old. If there aren't any new Metroid games between now and Smash4 though, I don't think that will matter.

If the 'Recent' rule existed in Smash, we wouldn't have seen any of the retro/dead series characters, or anything relating to them.

Samus probably would've also have her Prime model, but even in Brawl she has her Super Metroid appearance.

Stop basing things off of what's 'New', people. It doesn't hurt to go back to the past, y'know.

 

[ChronoBound]

We got a stage from Metroid Prime which came out six years before Brawl came out. I don't think this whole "recent" thing you and Chronobound have really holds up that much water.

Let's see how many recent things stages were based off of in Brawl in terms of stages:

Delfino Plazo: Stage based off of the most recent console platformer Mario at the time (though Mario Galaxy was released prior to Brawl it was released at a point where no content from it could be added)

Eldin Bridge: Stage based off of the most recent console Zelda at the time.

Spear Pillar: Stage based off of the most recent Pokemon main game installments.

Pirate Ship: Stage based off Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass.

Rumble Falls: Stage based off of most recent console Mario platformer.

Norfair: Stage based off of the most recently released Sakamoto Metroid (Metroid Zero Mission).

Port Town Aero Dive: Stage based directly on a track from the most recent console F-Zero.

New Pork City: Stage based on a location in Mother 3, which was the most recently released Mother titles (and also the last).

Stages such as the Orpheon and Luigi's Mansion were also likely included since the games those stages were based off of were among the most famous in the GameCube's library and were made in the interim between Melee and Brawl (Luigi's Mansion was released at a point where a stage could not had been made of it back in Melee). None of it was drawn on "old games" released prior to Melee (such as how Rainbow Cruise and Great Bay were both based on prominent Nintendo 64 games).

Most of the other new stages for Brawl were either "generic" stages based on certain series or stages based on games released during the 1980's (Super Mario Bros. Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, various Game & Watch titles).

Now next time before you badmouth me, rethink things a little bit more.

Edit: Right now I would say the most likely choice for a Metroid state would be something from Other M. Also, its a running joke that Frigate Orpheon was selected as the stage representing the Prime series due to Sakurai playing Prime for 20 minutes then getting bored with it.

 

[Big-Cat]

So outside of stages, what has the recent rule been applied to outside of Pokeball Pokemon, Lucas, and Ike (since it seems Lucario and Mewtwo was supposed to happen along with Ike and Roy), and that's assuming Ike and Lucas were picked because they were recent.

I can tell you that it doesn't apply to music since we got music from all the console eras. You could say trophies, but that was more of a cop out than anything else considering the nature of the trophies.

 

[UberMario]

Delfino Plazo: Stage based off of the most recent console platformer Mario at the time (though Mario Galaxy was released prior to Brawl it was released at a point where no content from it could be added)

. . . . you do realize that Super Smash Bros Brawl included a theme from Metal Gear Solid 4, a game that came out over five months AFTER Brawl? (Galaxy came out two months before SSBB in comparison) They chose not to put in SMG material.

 

[Big-Cat]

If we want to provide more counter examples: Wario's victory theme is music from Wario Land Shake It which came out months after Brawl's release. And then there's Roy which truly debuted in Smash Bros.

 

[UberMario]

Also, Animal Crossing trophies are present in Melee, and Melee came out so early that they named the trophies game-of-origin "future release". Aswell as an obscure GENERIC character from a game called "Cubivore", which came out a full year after Melee.

Games referenced in Melee that came out in the same month or AFTER it:
-Luigi's Mansion
-Cubivore
-Animal Crossing
-Fire Emblem: Sword of Seals

Games referenced in Brawl that came out AFTER it:
-Metal Gear Solid 4

 

[jahkzheng]

I'd like to think Sakurai appreciates the Prime series more then you implied Chrono...

To be frank, Other M's level design was uninspiring and bland - the elemental environments looked like they could have been from any generic game. The Primes in contrast had very detailed, iconic, and usable locales for any potential Smash stage.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Sakurai or what he'd do with Metroid stage-wise, I just saying I hope you are. Chances are good however that he'll probably just opt to make some other lava stage from some as of yet unreleased Metroid game :/

 

[Big-Cat]

I still want to see Other M's design for both Samus's in the next game. The suit has that nice, sleek look to it and doesn't have that weird crotch bulge and truly looks like the person inside the suit is a woman.

But yeah, I still can't think of anything good for an Other M location. Although, story wise, it was really meant to be a bridge from Super and Fusion so I suppose it didn't matter to have important locations. Heck, we never saw much of sector 0 since Adam blew it up. Character wise, though, remembuh him?

And for an Assist Trophy (and possible time paradox):

 

[jahkzheng]

...uhg

You had to remind me of that crappy little... thing, lol.
Sorry, but that was one of my least favorite aspects of the game - I feel like it ruined one of my favorite Metroid characters.

Kinda how Samus having a mental breakdown when faced with Ridley made me... *heavy sigh*

But don't let my hangups bother you

 

[Arcadenik]

If we want to provide more counter examples: Wario's victory theme is music from Wario Land Shake It which came out months after Brawl's release. And then there's Roy which truly debuted in Smash Bros.

Have you heard of advertising?

Also, most of the music from the 20+ years old games are remixed over and over in recent games so... not to mention we got Wii Virtual Console games that came out before Brawl came out so those games could be considered "recent".

I find it silly that just because there is only one or two exceptions to the general rule, it must mean that the whole "most of the recent stuff are added in Smash" theory is wrong. Dude, the theory even mentions "most" in the title!

Also, it is a video game, not real life physics... who cares about time paradoxes? This is not directed at you, Kuma, but this is why I think most people are dumb for thinking that Toad cannot be playable in Smash if Peach is using him as a shield or that Tom Nook cannot be playable in Smash if he is in the background in Smashville (not saying I want him as a playable character but this is a dumb reason to exclude him) and yet they don't even think it is weird to see four Marios fighting each other.

 

[UberMario]

What is that white fuzz thing? I've seen it before, but I have no clue what it's name is.

 

[jahkzheng]

I you were me... you wouldn't want to know, lol.

*attempts to go back in time to keep my past self from such knowledge*

 

[Arcadenik]

What is that white fuzz thing? I've seen it before, but I have no clue what it's name is.

Spoiler

Speaking in Pokemon terms, let's just say it is Ridley's pre-evolution form.

So yeah.

 

[Big-Cat]

So then I suppose your Meowth is thrown out of the window in favor of Zoroark and DENNIS!?

Wait. There's a written theory on this "recent" crap? The way it's being used, it seems you can't get anything in if it's older than two years and then you make the exception for "retro". Anyway, I still don't believe this as I feel these are interpretations that are getting way out of hand.

 

[Arcadenik]

Have you considered why we got old stuff from the 1980's and 1990's in Brawl could be because they were available on Wii's Virtual Console since 2006 and some of them were ports and/or remakes on the GBA and/or DS since 2001 (post-Melee)? I would think that they would be still fresh in recent memory at the time Brawl's development ended in 2007.

Also, who the hell is Dennis?

 

[UberMario]

Dennis is the meme name for Genosect, the terrorizing bug robot with a lazer cannon.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e4/649.png (not using IMG tags because some people may get spoiled)

*unrelated*

I was thinking just now, should Donbe from Shin Onigashima be a potential character for SSB4? I was looking at him in the artwork, and his larger form (the one on the right) makes him look like he would be a good fighter:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Shinonigashima_boxarts.PNG

Also to see the scene where he is transformed in game (the above is NOT just a change in art-style), here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6smbnJbI2oU&#t=4m30s

Or if you don't want to see the cutscene:
Before:

After: