[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Serph]

Tanooki Mario would be better.

 

[BBQTV]

What's your thinking behind that?

think it about for a second

 

[Big-Cat]

And if SSB4 is released on the next Nintendo console, that console should be designed to easily adapt a multitap - allowing for up to 8 players at once.

Another possibility is a Swim Race minigame - an expansion on the ability to swim in certain Brawl stages. You can either compete against up to three others, or do a solo time trial.

I can't see it working well for eight players at once. You would need to expand the stages to large sizes. That, and I can only imagine how it'd work to have eight players in one room. I think this is better done with online lobbies, team battles, and such.

As for the Swim Race, I'm okay with this so long as Break the Targets becomes personal again, Race to the Finish returns, and Board the Platforms finally makes a comeback.

On a side note, did anyone find it annoying how much they used the Brawl theme in the game. I eventually got sick of it. Final Destination, Battlefield, and the opening were really all the ones we needed, IMO.

 

[BBQTV]

truer words have never been said. i was so happy i unlocked the melee menu theme so i dont over do it with brawl's theme. also melee opening is better

 

[Big-Cat]

As song, they both have their ups and downs. The Melee theme makes for a great overture which is what it did with its opening. Brawl, however, has a great ending. In terms of openings though, Melee wins hands down.

 

[BBQTV]

and 8 player brawl is pushing it

 

[Pieman0920]

Eh, I think Brawl's opening is a bit better than Melee's, though the Smash 64 one wins due to the pure concentrated nostalgia in every bite.

Also yes, 8-players is a bit too much given the fact that it would change a great deal of the stages. While I suppose that the issue could be addressed by having specific stages where 8-players can join in on while others have a smaller cap, there would certainly be complaints about it.

 

[woopyfrood]

I don't necessarily think Lucario will be cut for SSB4. Remember that Mewtwo was originally going to be in Brawl, so it wasn't a simple case of "one in, one out".

I suppose it depends on how much development time they have. With any luck we'll have Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark.

True dat.

Also, do want.

 

[Shorts]

and 8 player brawl is pushing it

Six player? ehh? Sounds more reasonable.

 

[Arcadenik]

They currently only occupy four positions, and two more (Mewtwo and Zoroark) would bring that up to six. Hardly overkill when you consider the fact that something like Mario or Zelda is bound to increase their number of representatives to five in the next game (I think most of us consider Bowser Jr. a front runner). Pokemon is certainly big enough to justify having that number of characters.

And as someone else said a few pages back: whatever happened to just having characters that are cool or popular? They should obviously avoid completely flooding the lineup, but if Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark are all wanted come SSB4, then why should one or more of them be left out simply because "the series already has enough reps"? That's just daft.

So, instead of having two completely new Pokemon, we will only have one old Pokemon from Melee and one potential semi-clone. Pokemon is obviously big enough to justify a high number of characters and I think Meowth is a good choice for Smash. It is one of the most recognizable Pokemon, even among those who don't play the Pokemon games. If we are lucky, we will get Mewtwo, Zoroark, AND Meowth - why not? Brawl added four new Pokemon, why can't SSB4 add three new Pokemon?

Oh, and by the way, Bowser Jr. is not the only front runner. Don't forget Toad. He is one of the two front runners, don't forget that.

Zoroark. The first Pokemon (along with its pre-evolution) to be revealed for the new generation of RPGs.

I don't necessarily think Lucario will be cut for SSB4. Remember that Mewtwo was originally going to be in Brawl, so it wasn't a simple case of "one in, one out".

I suppose it depends on how much development time they have. With any luck we'll have Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark.

Yeah, Mewtwo was originally going to be in Brawl, but Sakurai still chose to drop him. To me, it is like Sakurai finished Lucario (and Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu) first then went ahead to work on Mewtwo (no Jigglypuff) but then when Nintendo ordered Sakurai to add Sonic, Sakurai had to drop everything he was working with the unfinished characters (Mewtwo and the other six characters) to concentrate most of his time working on Sonic. After he was finished with Sonic, he still had some time left before the deadline so he just shoehorned two more clones (Toon Link and Wolf) and an easy-to-program character (Jigglypuff).

 

[manman1235]

Yeah, Mewtwo was originally going to be in Brawl, but Sakurai still chose to drop him. To me, it is like Sakurai finished Lucario (and Pokemon Trainer and Pikachu) first then went ahead to work on Mewtwo (no Jigglypuff) but then when Nintendo ordered Sakurai to add Sonic, Sakurai had to drop everything he was working with the unfinished characters (Mewtwo and the other six characters) to concentrate most of his time working on Sonic. After he was finished with Sonic, he still had some time left before the deadline so he just shoehorned two more clones (Toon Link and Wolf) and an easy-to-program character (Jigglypuff).

So, why don't we finish Mewtwo instead of making crappy Lucario recolors? Also, would you rather have Sonic and two clones, or Mewtwo, Megaman, Isaac, and the other four characters?
Exactly...

 

[drag0nscythe]

6 player brawl would be interesting. It would also be possible. I think adding two more playable characters would not hurt anything. People could still use the standard 4 players if they wanted.

Also, we all need to think about what kind of DLC SSB4 would most likely have. Nintendo is staying out of it for now, but I am sure they will push greatly for DLC come next system.

Probably would be Character and Stage packs. They would put back in stages and characters that were cut as well as add newer ones. (would also allow for more 3rd party characters to enter the fray.)

One can only dream. A konami SSB4 DLC pack. Comes with 2 new colors for snake, an old snake model change, a new level and a completely new character. GOEMON! Eh. One can dream. Most likely it would be Raiden.

 

[EternalWing718]

I might just get b& for this, but I honestly think Sora should be in SSB4. Nintendo has *some* rights to him since Chain of Memories was on GBA. Just think: Keyblade epicness, Awesome specials (Firaga, Curaga, Blizaga), and the final smash could be Trinity Limit with Sora, Donald, and Goofy. How amazing would that be? xD

 

[Big-Cat]

6 player brawl would be interesting. It would also be possible. I think adding two more playable characters would not hurt anything. People could still use the standard 4 players if they wanted.

Also, we all need to think about what kind of DLC SSB4 would most likely have. Nintendo is staying out of it for now, but I am sure they will push greatly for DLC come next system.

Probably would be Character and Stage packs. They would put back in stages and characters that were cut as well as add newer ones. (would also allow for more 3rd party characters to enter the fray.)

One can only dream. A konami SSB4 DLC pack. Comes with 2 new colors for snake, an old snake model change, a new level and a completely new character. GOEMON! Eh. One can dream. Most likely it would be Raiden.

DLC would be a very difficult thing to do. Right now, I'm thinking that maybe pulling a SSFIV would be the first thing to do. You know, add a certain amount of characters, stages, music, etc., fixing up the sorry *** online mode. The main reason is that depending on how many additions/changes they want to do, they can't just magically fix it up with a patch. There would probablyy be a data distribution limit like on XBL and the new code could conflict with the pre-existing code.

I can see stages, items, trophies, etc., but characters are a completely different animal. When you add one character to the roster, the balance needs to be redone with the new character in mind. For example, if we were to add, say, Tom Nook to the roster via DLC, you would have to test out the matchups against the other 39 characters which would more than likely lead to buffs and nerfs as well for the existing cast. That would mean that they would have to exam all the matchups that are more than likely well over 200 setups. If I did the right mathematical method (probably not ), it's probably around 820 matchups being reexamined.

If anything, characters in the form of DLC would have to come once in a blue moon outside of an updated rerelease simply because the balancing work would be quite a bit, therefore leading to a higher cost for that character. At least everything else wouldn't interfere with the balance.

 

[Starphoenix]

DLC would be a very difficult thing to do. Right now, I'm thinking that maybe pulling a SSFIV would be the first thing to do. You know, add a certain amount of characters, stages, music, etc., fixing up the sorry *** online mode. The main reason is that depending on how many additions/changes they want to do, they can't just magically fix it up with a patch. There would probablyy be a data distribution limit like on XBL and the new code could conflict with the pre-existing code.

I can see stages, items, trophies, etc., but characters are a completely different animal. When you add one character to the roster, the balance needs to be redone with the new character in mind. For example, if we were to add, say, Tom Nook to the roster via DLC, you would have to test out the matchups against the other 39 characters which would more than likely lead to buffs and nerfs as well for the existing cast. That would mean that they would have to exam all the matchups that are more than likely well over 200 setups. If I did the right mathematical method (probably not ), it's probably around 820 matchups being reexamined.

If anything, characters in the form of DLC would have to come once in a blue moon outside of an updated rerelease simply because the balancing work would be quite a bit, therefore leading to a higher cost for that character. At least everything else wouldn't interfere with the balance.

Only logical DLC in my mind would be music. Nintendo could distribute an original game track over the network and give owners the chance to download it onto an SD card with sufficient space and stream it on the stage of choice. We know this is possible to technically achieve now (streaming music from and SD card) as hackers have done it, you mean to tell me paid programmers cannot? They could have a box in the My Music section that could control the placement of these extra songs. This is a great way to expand upon content without ruining balance. Plus I want my Ballad of the Windfish next time. :'(

 

[Kaffei]

I really hope they still allow GC controller compatibility.

 

[BBQTV]

Only logical DLC in my mind would be music. Nintendo could distribute an original game track over the network and give owners the chance to download it onto an SD card with sufficient space and stream it on the stage of choice. We know this is possible to technically achieve now (streaming music from and SD card) as hackers have done it, you mean to tell me paid programmers cannot? They could have a box in the My Music section that could control the placement of these extra songs. This is a great way to expand upon content without ruining balance. Plus I want my Ballad of the Windfish next time. :'(

this is good. they sshould do this to reduce hacking

 

[Big-Cat]

Only logical DLC in my mind would be music. Nintendo could distribute an original game track over the network and give owners the chance to download it onto an SD card with sufficient space and stream it on the stage of choice. We know this is possible to technically achieve now (streaming music from and SD card) as hackers have done it, you mean to tell me paid programmers cannot? They could have a box in the My Music section that could control the placement of these extra songs. This is a great way to expand upon content without ruining balance. Plus I want my Ballad of the Windfish next time. :'(

This, and I'd like to see the same custom music stuff the XBOX 360 and PS3 have. In SSB4's case, let you actually upload the music and assign it to the stage and it works for as long as you have that music on your memory card/hard drive (if they do it next time) or as long as you want.

I really hope they still allow GC controller compatibility.

God knows if they will or they won't. My guess is that the next console will not use Gamecube controllers. Rather, it will have the successor to the Classic Controller Pro probably as its traditional controller, but hopefully with the pressure sensitive shoulder buttons.

 

[BBQTV]

if it doesn't have gc then they'll have an attachment of some sort

 

[Big-Cat]

Which would probably be the CC Pro successor. I wouldn't expect Nintendo to make new GC-like controllers for one game. You could point to arcade sticks, but those aren't console exclusive like the GC controller.

 

[BBQTV]

cc is ****, gc is where its at. surety nintendo knows this right?

 

[Big-Cat]

Have you used the CC Pro?

 

[Starphoenix]

cc is ****, gc is where its at. surety nintendo knows this right?

The CC Pro, from everything I hear, is just as good as the Gamecube controller with one big advantage. It is wireless outside of attaching it to the Wiimote.

 

[Kaffei]

I don't like the CC Pro's set up... I don't like how X/Y is on top instead of X being at the side and I don't like the control stick being on the bottom :/

 

[Pieman0920]

There's no way that the next Smash is going to use the GCN controller if its on a new system. You people really should prepare to move on, cause Nintendo's not going to accommodate it again.

Can't say much on the CC Pro though. I want to get one though.

 

[BBQTV]

i bet they wouldn't put GC just to spite competitive smash

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't like the CC Pro's set up... I don't like how X/Y is on top instead of X being at the side and I don't like the control stick being on the bottom :/

You'll get used to it. Although, I don't like the location of the analog stick either. Being used to the GCN controller and the 360 controller does that to you. My guess is that it's for the pre-N64 games on the VC.

There's no way that the next Smash is going to use the GCN controller if its on a new system. You people really should prepare to move on, cause Nintendo's not going to accomdate it again.

And no one ever thinks about this. Brawl's one of the best sellers on the Wii and all, but times have changed. Do we want the Nintendo fanbase to be even more notorious for being conservative?

i bet they wouldn't put GC just to spite competitive smash

I doubt Nintendo's flat out against competitive Smash considering that they have to approve whether Brawl's on the MLG or not.

Who knows, they may be more supportive if they choose to go with the "maximum depth, minimal complexity" route they're going with MvC3. Just remember that Sakurai, for God knows what reason, is heavily concerned with beginner gamers and that was obviously reflected in Brawl. I'm all for accessibility, but don't make it scrub friendly.

 

[Pieman0920]

A lack of GC controller wouldn't be to spite competative smash, but really just because it makes no sense. Its actually fairly astounding that they let the Wii have those GCN controller ports really. I can only assume that for the next system, motion controls or not, they will have some form of more conventional alternative....though it may be sold separately.

 

[Big-Cat]

Chances are it would be separately. I think they decided to let the ports be on the Wii because of the radically different controls. Although, it would have been another story had the GCN used USB ports for control ports, but I don't think those were widespread back in 2001.

 

[ElPanandero]

Well they could make a GC-esque controller in the same vein as current fighters making arcade sticks (though with that price tag, let's hope nintendo makes a simpler decision)

 

[Big-Cat]

To me, that's kind of stupid. If you're going to do that, you might as well develop an arcade stick that supports analog. I don't see anything wrong with a CC Pro controller just as long as the left analog and the D-Pad switch spots. Yeah, the button mapping would take some getting used to, but you have to go with the flow.

Speaking of which, I wondering if C-Sticking should be removed. As I've said before, it just seems like a handicap more than anything else for execution.

 

[BBQTV]

with what smash has become, i have a feeling smash4 is gonna make brawl the new melee

 

[Shorts]

6 player brawl would be interesting. It would also be possible. I think adding two more playable characters would not hurt anything. People could still use the standard 4 players if they wanted.

Also, we all need to think about what kind of DLC SSB4 would most likely have. Nintendo is staying out of it for now, but I am sure they will push greatly for DLC come next system.

Probably would be Character and Stage packs. They would put back in stages and characters that were cut as well as add newer ones. (would also allow for more 3rd party characters to enter the fray.)

One can only dream. A konami SSB4 DLC pack. Comes with 2 new colors for snake, an old snake model change, a new level and a completely new character. GOEMON! Eh. One can dream. Most likely it would be Raiden.

No no, Goemon sounds lovely :D
What sort of advances in controllers be added to this next gen? The wii seems to have the most complex controllers on the market. We can only hope the GC controllers will be adaptable

 

[Kaffei]

with what smash has become, i have a feeling smash4 is gonna make brawl the new melee

Everyone can fly!

 

[Rizen]

I don't like the CC Pro's set up... I don't like how X/Y is on top instead of X being at the side and I don't like the control stick being on the bottom :/

I agree.

Nintendo should make SSB4 on the wii because they have had to re-invent SSBs for every new system and that leads to flaws and game imbalance.

 

[Big-Cat]

Bad game design and such can lead game balance and other glaring flaws, not doing sequels on a new system.

I remember Fatmanonice had said that a number of buffs and nerfs seemed like they were more fitting for Melee. That's where Sakurai shot himself in the foot. He didn't alter the characters with the final engine in mind.

 

[Arcadenik]

So, why don't we finish Mewtwo instead of making crappy Lucario recolors? Also, would you rather have Sonic and two clones, or Mewtwo, Megaman, Isaac, and the other four characters?
Exactly...

I think it was either Sonic and two clones plus Jigglypuff or Mewtwo and eight clones (this includes the six remaining lost characters plus Toon Link and Wolf) but no Jigglypuff. Mega Man and Isaac were never going to be in Brawl either way...

About the controllers, I think Nintendo would have to make a new classic controller for the next console after Wii. That, or Nintendo could just reuse Wii's classic controllers. I think the Gamecube controllers might not be used again. Why would it be? It is already almost 10 years old and it would be two generations old by the time the new console comes around.

 

[augustoflores]

some good pics for your solution.
link1
link2

i could not find the pic from egm magazine that depicts (at the time, it was called>) Nintendo Revolution's mystery control scheme where you can switch up the button interface manually by plugging it into the controller. (the pic of the controller was rather bulky) it had a touch screen, a microphone for some reason (literally, a big microphone!) i just wish that someone out there read the article, i think it was called "Next Gen Console Report".

anyways, i think that they could just remake a motion gamecube control rather than have that second pic of mine.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Everyone can fly!

Do me a favor for the sake of this thread, Kaffei.

please keep being this hilarious. That was amazing and quickly making this thread more read-worthy again.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just in case anyone is interested, here are some screenshots of The Last Story.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/NgpedBnWJ.jpg
http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/LToDIsyib.jpg
http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/CIIavIBWK.jpg
http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/dkqhHNSaL.jpg