[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Thirdkoopa]

I do not know about ruling the world but it definitely is a viable idea. You never know Chocobo and Slime could become a new phenomenon that sweeps the web. If it could happen to Geno, most anything is possible...

We shall see, if Nintendo ever holds a SSB4 poll we could always try and drum up some support. lol

I meant to strike that part and put "Get into smash 4" it's for sure not too late to start it into something. I'll keep thinking of ways to get the word around. Any other ideas? Anyone who supports this/a SE rep: Now is our time to speak up. (I still need a slime render ._.)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I'm not really worrying about that too much, because even If it comes down to both It's not like sakurai would say "uh...scrap isaac; he's not as cool as little mac 0l" I'm just not putting any hope into any character being 100% Confirmed. (Tho I do believe Isaac/Mac are the most likely for new series regardless of If mac is counted as retro or not) There.

Looking at all the responses from everyone else, I should've probably addressed that post to them instead (even if you fall into the trap now and then).

So basically, everyone here needs to not be hung up with grouping the individual series. If I didn't know any better, I'd say some of you are basing who gets in on what combination makes a nicer row/column/rectangle.

Also If Choco/Slime somehow gets in due to us...Oh that will be amazing yet a good laugh. United, we shall make sure square is represented in the next smash game.

Admittedly, I've gradually lost all interest in Final Fantasy (and most RPGs in general) over the years. Regardless you two should get some people who know how to draw. Like, really draw. Amazing art is typically the best way to appeal to people, rather than big blobs of "here's why" or YouTube links.

Oh, really? I'd like another site for sales info please. That'd be great; And I just posted it because I found it interesting, just noting that.

Do me a favor and don't bring up sales after this. Too often it follows with the "so this series deserves more!" response from the uninitiated. And the whole bit about Sakurai ignoring them most of the time.

Anyway, the only thing I'll mention is to go by whatever Nintendo (or whichever company) says themselves. Even without Press access you should be able to find what you need with Google.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise, there seems to be a pattern in each game where the character select screen is ordered to make nice looking rectangles, columns, or rows.

SSB




If we ignore all the four unlockable characters, we can see that there is a pattern based on the order the games the characters first appeared were released.

Mario, Donkey Kong - Donkey Kong (7/1981, Arcade)
Link - The Legend of Zelda (2/1986, NES)
Samus - Metroid (8/1986, NES)
Yoshi - Super Mario World (11/1990, SNES)
Kirby - Kirby's Dream Land (4/1992, GB)
Fox - Star Fox (2/1993, SNES)
Pikachu - Pokemon Red/Blue (2/1996, GB)

Now, we will look at the unlockable characters, we can see the same pattern occurring.

Luigi - Mario Bros. (9/1983, Arcade)
Captain Falcon - F-Zero (11/1990, SNES)
Ness - Mother 2 (8/1994, SNES)
Jigglypuff - Pokemon Red/Blue (2/1996, GB)

Melee



:random: ichu: :mewtwo: :random:

The original pattern is gone but there seems to be a different pattern going on. First, we ignore all the six clones and the random slots.

First Row: Marioverse characters + SNES character
Second Row: SNES characters + Famicom character + GB character + Famicom Disk System characters
Third Row: Pokemon characters + GW character + Japan-only character (but they are all more popular in Japan than in North America)

The clones are added right next to the original characters, ignoring the aforementioned order.

Brawl




:random:

This is my favorite pattern of all with the SSB pattern coming in second place. Here, we can see that the pattern is based on defined groups occurring in columns. And best of all? The unlockable characters now can be counted with the starting characters in this pattern!

Column 1 - main characters from the Mario main series
Column 2 - main characters from the Mario spin-off franchises

Together, columns 1 and 2 consist of Marioverse characters.

Column 3 - main characters from the Zelda series
Column 4 - main characters from Famicom Disk System and Famicom

Notice how Link is right next to Samus. The original Zelda game was a Famicom Disk System game so it makes sense for Link to be right next to Samus and followed by the other NES-era characters.

Column 5 - main characters from Kirby series plus Olimar
Column 6 - main characters from Star Fox series plus Captain Falcon

Notice how both Kirby and Star Fox each have three characters with both captains at the bottom. Also, Olimar seems to be a cutesy character like the Kirby characters so it might make sense for him to be grouped with Kirby characters. Star Fox and F-Zero were originally SNES games so it would make sense for Captain Falcon to be grouped with Star Fox characters. Olimar and Captain Falcon are both captains and they are right next to each other.

Column 7 - Pokemon characters
Column 8 - Fire Emblem characters and Mother characters

Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Mother are all RPG games so together, both columns 7 and 8 have RPG characters and they tend to be more popular in Japan than in North America.

Column 9 - Mr. Game & Watch plus the third-party characters

This column is essentially the WTF column because Mr. Game & Watch was originally the WTF character in Melee and both Snake and Sonic are not Nintendo characters so it kinda make them seem out of place.

You see, Toise, there is a reason why some of us think that there might be a pattern on the character select screen in SSB4. For all we know, it could be something like this.




:random:

Row 1: Marioverse characters plus Mr. Game & Watch but it makes sense because of his history with the Marioverse characters in Game & Watch Gallery games.

Row 2: NES-era characters. Snake is from this era, too.

Row 3: SNES-era characters. Sonic is from this era, too. Olimar is the only one out of place but there is really no other place he could go on the roster.

Row 4: RPG characters

Also, notice the first column. We got Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu. The first four characters announced for Brawl. And the last column got third-party characters.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Admittedly, I've gradually lost all interest in Final Fantasy (and most RPGs in general) over the years. Regardless you two should get some people who know how to draw. Like, really draw. Amazing art is typically the best way to appeal to people, rather than big blobs of "here's why" or YouTube links.

...Your ideas are awesome. I was also thinking of making sig-art and whatnot to spread the word out but this will also help.

Do me a favor etc

I already told that I only posted it because of it being interesting but I see how It'd turn into a discussion about which franchise deserves it more.

 

[SmashChu]

@ Arcadenik: The question is, what came first. The characters or the pretty box?

 

[Pieman0920]

On this column business, I don't think that Little Mac would be grouped in Samus' column due to my confidence that Ridley will get in. I'd also think if Ridley did get in, all characters from Brawl were returning, and the columns were only 5 slots high, then it should go Samus, Ridley, Pit, ROB, G&W instead, due to them all being Gunpei creations.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sometimes I wonder about that question, Smashchu. I mean, if the Forbidden Seven were added instead of Sonic, it would probably be a pretty box. But since we got Sonic, we got the pretty box we see in Brawl.


:random: add Dixie Kong here
:random: add Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik here


:random: add Plusle & Minun here
:mewtwo:


I really think this is how the Brawl roster would have looked like without Sonic. I think it makes sense. Look at Mr. Game & Watch and Snake. They are still right next to each other. Plusle & Minun would have looked out of place right there but that is only because they would have been last-minute filler clones just like Pichu were in Melee (looks at Ganondorf on the Melee roster).

 

[Starphoenix]

...Your ideas are awesome. I was also thinking of making sig-art and whatnot to spread the word out but this will also help.

There is pseudo-pastel artwork piece of Slime I have, though it is not all that elaborate. I will probably post it later.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

There is pseudo-pastel artwork piece of Slime I have, though it is not all that elaborate. I will probably post it later.

Hey; If It helps, it helps. I'm going to keep thinking on other ways to stir this idea up. If we get enough fan-art of it that looks REALLY Good of the duo, maybe the idea will catch on.

Speaking of which...

Currently missing slime however. I may render slime myself...

Sometimes I wonder about that question, Smashchu. I mean, if the Forbidden Seven were added instead of Sonic, it would probably be a pretty box. But since we got Sonic, we got the pretty box we see in Brawl.


:random: add Dixie Kong here
:random: add Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik here


:random: add Plusle & Minun here
:mewtwo:


I really think this is how the Brawl roster would have looked like without Sonic. I think it makes sense. Look at Mr. Game & Watch and Snake. They are still right next to each other. Plusle & Minun would have looked out of place right there but that is only because they would have been last-minute filler clones just like Pichu were in Melee (looks at Ganondorf on the Melee roster).

tl;dr: the box would look different if the rumored 7 were put in and sonic wasn't.

We can go on box theories all day but it won't get us anywhere (or at least, not that far)

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, you can not really deny that if the forbidden seven were added instead of Sonic, the groups in the alternate Brawl selection screen would still make sense and closely resemble what we have now. So that's why I think the box theories have some basis right there.

Also, are you going to draw a picture with Slime riding on Chocobo? If you are, it would be cool if they had palette swaps. I am sure there is a pink Chocobo, right? I never played a Final Fantasy game but I have played Dragon Quest VIII so I know Slime comes in different colors like green and silver (at least that's what I remember).

Edit: I just found this picture and I wanted to showed you all. It is an awesome picture of Takamaru - the protagonist of the Japan-only Famicom Disk System game Nazo no Murasamejou! Click here! Look at the left page. That is Takamaru as he appears in the Wii-exclusive Samurai Warriors 3.

Takamaru for SSB4!

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Toise, there seems to be a pattern in each game where the character select screen is ordered to make nice looking rectangles, columns, or rows.

[...]

You see, Toise, there is a reason why some of us think that there might be a pattern on the character select screen in SSB4. For all we know, it could be something like this.

Are you assuming I never noticed the patterns? Oh you.


Anyway, there are people who say stuff like "X can only have this many slots on the select screen, so we won't be getting Y." As if Sakurai is cutting characters on the basis that they ruin some sweet *** symmetry. That's what perplexes me.

I'm also rather puzzled as to why anyone would care about the character selection screen itself to begin with. I mean sure, there's some neat patterns, but it's a character selection screen. It's like discussing wrapping paper.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise, maybe it is for the purpose of balancing how many characters the franchises get? Oh, and maybe the neat pattern in the character selection screen is to present a professional-looking roster? If you ask me, the official Smash rosters look way more professional than most fan-made rosters like this.

 

[Big-Cat]

@ Arcadenik: The question is, what came first. The characters or the pretty box?

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I have to respond.

This whole thing shows that we're looking too much in everything in order to find some sort of pattern, some kind of clue, to know what we're expecting., character wise.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well, you can not really deny that if the forbidden seven were added instead of Sonic, the groups in the alternate Brawl selection screen would still make sense and closely resemble what we have now. So that's why I think the box theories have some basis right there.

Annnnnnnd?

See: That's what you're missing. It would've just changed how the selection screen looked like, which in the end doesn't determine who gets in over who. Chances are, a lot of the forbidden 7 were scrapped earlier in development. Roy and Mewtwo may have possibly made it far with the info we have but that's about all we know.

tl;dr: this is literately like wrapping paper.

Also, are you going to draw a picture with Slime riding on Chocobo? If you are, it would be cool if they had palette swaps. I am sure there is a pink Chocobo, right? I never played a Final Fantasy game but I have played Dragon Quest VIII so I know Slime comes in different colors like green and silver (at least that's what I remember).

Good question: The palette swaps really depend on the artists I get, however I already do know five of them for Chocobo/Slime:
Chocobo/Slime regular - Chocobo will be yellow, Slime will be Blue. Nothing new here.
Red - Chocobo will resemble a bit more to a pink color while Slime will be dark red.
Green - Lightish green chocobo with dark green slime.
Blue - Blueish chocobo, however he's more dark blue, and slime turns dark blue as well for this.
Black Mageish - Chocobo will be darkish for this, slime will also be black (Or possibly silver)

For chocobo colors to get a general idea: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chocobo_types

As for art I'll be doing: I won't be doing the awesome chocobo/slime pictures but I'll be doing small things and whatnot here and there like the pic I had back on the previous page.

Idea's and everything are gladly accepted from anyone else as well.

Toise, maybe it is for the purpose of balancing how many characters the franchises get? Oh, and maybe the neat pattern in the character selection screen is to present a professional-looking roster? If you ask me, the official Smash rosters look way more professional than most fan-made rosters like this.

Bad example. There's actually a lot of fan-made roster's out there that look decently/more professional.

Just pointing that out.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, you are right. It was a bad example to the extreme. I couldn't find good fan-made character select screens.

Well, I guess maybe it doesn't matter what comes first - characters or the pretty box - because in the end, it will still be a professional-looking pretty box. Sakurai knows how to organize all the characters.

Edit: Didn't anyone see my post on top of this page about Takamaru?

 

[SmashChu]

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I have to respond.

This whole thing shows that we're looking too much in everything in order to find some sort of pattern, some kind of clue, to know what we're expecting., character wise.

I'd agree. Sometimes, we tend to take these tings to far. Perhaps it's more interesting to talk about what if rather then what is plausible.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Am I the only one who's sick of hearing about "the Forbidden Seven?" People really need to let them go. The only one that would be mildly interesting is Mewtwo and that's only if he got a whole new moveset to replace the spectacularly bland one he had in Melee.

@ Arcadnik: Oh snap! Takamaru's making a playable cameo in a fighting game? I'll have to keep my eye on how he ends up.

 

[GamenerdAdvance]

Am I the only one who's sick of hearing about "the Forbidden Seven?" People really need to let them go. The only one that would be mildly interesting is Mewtwo and that's only if he got a whole new moveset to replace the spectacularly bland one he had in Melee.

@ Arcadnik: Oh snap! Takamaru's making a playable cameo in a fighting game? I'll have to keep my eye on how he ends up.

He didn't have a bad moveset in Melee. It accurately represented his character as far far as visual representation goes, it's just a shame that he was mindblowingly weak. Buff him up a little, make a couple of his moves look more interesting visually, and give him a fitting Final Smash, and you've got an amazing character that fits his description.

The only problem with Mewtwo, in my opinion, was how cripplingly pathetic he was to anyone but beginners.

Although I second the sentiment that the "Forbidden Seven" sounded pretty mediocre. It was pretty much a list of clones with Mewtwo tacked on the end.

 

[Fatmanonice]

His throws and smash attacks were good and that's about it. Aside from his shadow ball, his specials were poor and a majority of his attacks were him attacking with his tail which is kind of goofy for what was supposed to be the most powerful pokemon along with Lugia at the time. In my opinion, Mewtwo will always remain the definition of blown potential in the Smash franchise.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I disagree that mewtwo would be the only one intresting to see back, I want Roy, but only if he stays a clone, which he probably won't so....

 

[n88]

@Arcadenik

I guess it was more the way you worded it than the actual idea. I'm fine with Peach having Rosalina's colors, but I'm not fine with Peach with those colors being referred to as Rosalina.


Out of the Forbidden Seven, Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie, and Toon Zelda all have a shot of appearing. Although I'm not too sure of Mewtwo's chances anymore. It seems like he had a lot of data in Brawl, and must have been specifically removed for a reason rather than unfinished.

 

[Arcadenik]

What if the reason Mewtwo was removed even though he had a lot of data in Brawl was because Sakurai decided to replace Mewtwo with Lucario after the Brawl poll closed? Maybe Lucario had the most votes in the Pokemon category in the Brawl poll. Same with Roy and Ike.

 

[n88]

@Arcadenik

Actually, I suspect he was replaced by Jiggly. It seems that Jiggly was a late addition, and Mewtwo a late removal. Putting two and two together....

I can't speak for Roy, although I remember hearing someone claim that the three parts of Castle Siege were made to go with the three FE Lords. I don't know if there's any truth behind that, but if it is true, that would rule out Ike replacing Roy.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Am I the only one who's sick of hearing about "the Forbidden Seven?" People really need to let them go. The only one that would be mildly interesting is Mewtwo and that's only if he got a whole new moveset to replace the spectacularly bland one he had in Melee.

Nope, I also don't enjoy hearing about it too often. All the sonic and so on theories and everything...Pretty annoying. Sadly however, until we get an announcement on Smash 4, people will run around with that info for a while since It's one of the only bits of info people have to speculate upon.

 

[DekuBoy]

Well, you can not really deny that if the forbidden seven were added instead of Sonic, the groups in the alternate Brawl selection screen would still make sense and closely resemble what we have now. So that's why I think the box theories have some basis right there.

Also, are you going to draw a picture with Slime riding on Chocobo? If you are, it would be cool if they had palette swaps. I am sure there is a pink Chocobo, right? I never played a Final Fantasy game but I have played Dragon Quest VIII so I know Slime comes in different colors like green and silver (at least that's what I remember).

Edit: I just found this picture and I wanted to showed you all. It is an awesome picture of Takamaru - the protagonist of the Japan-only Famicom Disk System game Nazo no Murasamejou! Click here! Look at the left page. That is Takamaru as he appears in the Wii-exclusive Samurai Warriors 3.

Takamaru for SSB4!

Wow! Great find Arcadenik! That's the second Wii game Takamaru has been in now. Tell me is his game out on the Japanese Virtual Console?

 

[Arcadenik]

Maybe Sakurai felt that Pokemon and Fire Emblem don't really need Mewtwo and Roy anymore so he decided to replace them with Lucario and Ike (and Jigglypuff for tradition's sake ) I'd rather have Mewtwo than Jigglypuff even though I enjoy playing as Jigglypuff a lot.

Edit: Dekuboy, yes, Nazo no Murasamejou is available on the Virtual Console in Japan.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd agree. Sometimes, we tend to take these tings to far. Perhaps it's more interesting to talk about what if rather then what is plausible.

That's what I have in mind for the gameplay discussion group. It's really more of a what-if group than anything else. Besides, shouldn't we want characters because we like them, not because they are likely or not?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Arcadenik

Actually, I suspect he was replaced by Jiggly. It seems that Jiggly was a late addition, and Mewtwo a late removal. Putting two and two together....

I can't speak for Roy, although I remember hearing someone claim that the three parts of Castle Siege were made to go with the three FE Lords. I don't know if there's any truth behind that, but if it is true, that would rule out Ike replacing Roy.

This would make sense, as A figure strongly resembling the Black Knight can be seen inside of the 2nd part of stage, There is a cave similar to that in roy's game (well there is in FE7 and they take place on the Same continent) and Marth can have generic castle top (just for the sake of going with the theory)

This porbably is more coincidental than meaningful, but thats ok

 

[Arcadenik]

I think Castle Siege was based on Ike's game than anything else. The red flags in the first part were clearly from Ike's game. I suspect Castle Siege is probably the scrapped AKANEIA stage from Melee and was given a makeover resulting in the first part of Castle Siege. Similarly, the scrapped IceTop stage in Melee might have become the Summit in Brawl.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well the evil symbol on most of the enemies flag resemble those on castle seige (Though it does resemble the Daein flag very simalraily), Like I said before, there is a Black Knight-esque figure on the throne is stage 2, and the Gallia/Galldoa cave system in Fire Emblem 9 resembles the final stage...so you could be right there Arcade.

 

[Hero Dude]

Maybe Sakurai felt that Pokemon and Fire Emblem don't really need Mewtwo and Roy anymore so he decided to replace them with Lucario and Ike (and Jigglypuff for tradition's sake ) I'd rather have Mewtwo than Jigglypuff even though I enjoy playing as Jigglypuff a lot.

Edit: Dekuboy, yes, Nazo no Murasamejou is available on the Virtual Console in Japan.

ChronoBound proved you wrong in a monster post a WHILE back....

Can we discuss the characters and not the selection screen?
Who are the two most likely WTF characters? I could suppose that nobody knows.
After all, there really is no way to tell. If you don't have a clue, say who you want.

Kudos to Arcadenik for bringing up Takamaru.

 

[Arcadenik]

Two WTF characters? I don't think we are getting two. One WTF character is likely. We usually get one WTF character in each game.

SSB - Jigglypuff or Ness, but I am leaning toward Jigglypuff since she was added as a joke character
Melee - Mr. Game & Watch or Pichu, but I am leaning toward Mr. Game & Watch since Pichu was only added as a last-minute filler clone
Brawl - R.O.B., no doubt about it

You all know I want the Duck Hunt Dog as the WTF character in SSB4.

 

[.WC.]

The only problem with Mewtwo, in my opinion, was how cripplingly pathetic he was to anyone but beginners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u89hqpmQwqE&feature=related

Two WTF characters? I don't think we are getting two. One WTF character is likely. We usually get one WTF character in each game.

SSB - Jigglypuff or Ness, but I am leaning toward Jigglypuff since she was added as a joke character
Melee - Mr. Game & Watch or Pichu, but I am leaning toward Mr. Game & Watch since Pichu was only added as a last-minute filler clone
Brawl - R.O.B., no doubt about it

You all know I want the Duck Hunt Dog as the WTF character in SSB4.

Melee and Brawl introduced retro WTF characters. I'd put my money on someone like Sukapon in SSB4.

 

[Clownbot]

SSB - Jigglypuff or Ness, but I am leaning toward Jigglypuff since she was added as a joke character

Proof of this pl0x.

She had a recurring role in the anime, she was one of the most popular Pokemon at the time, and there is literally no logical proof that she was included as a joke (unless you can find me some ).

 

[Hero Dude]

Two WTF characters? I don't think we are getting two. One WTF character is likely. We usually get one WTF character in each game.

SSB - Jigglypuff or Ness, but I am leaning toward Jigglypuff since she was added as a joke character
Melee - Mr. Game & Watch or Pichu, but I am leaning toward Mr. Game & Watch since Pichu was only added as a last-minute filler clone
Brawl - R.O.B., no doubt about it

You all know I want the Duck Hunt Dog as the WTF character in SSB4.

Sorry, I meant WTF/ Retro.

SSB - I really have no clue about earthbound, but I know that Jigglypuff was no WTF character. She got in becouse she used to appear in the anime alot, and is SUPPOSEDLY the second most popular pokemon ever back then, and is still. SUPPOSEDLY
Melee - It was G&W, no debate.
Brawl - agreed.

Duck Hunt Dog is my top choice too. I would really like to see he/she in.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@WC

Taj is an absolute beast, case and point at the fallability of tiers

 

[Thirdkoopa]

For WTF/Retro I would for sure like to see Sukapon. They've tried him...Twice?

Considering Mac's not really retro anymore, I don't know who else. A lot of retro ideas in the past seem to have been denied. Takamaru could be cool but two japanese Retro's have me fishy. Mike Jones would be cool but he's US Only iirc.

Regardless of what happens, just give me Sukapon in retro and I'll be happy.

 

[Thelo]

I want Shadow and Silver in the game.Will be cool if they put Megaman Bomberman and Earthworm Jim in the Game. I want to all melee characters back.I know Sora can't be on the game but if they triy to put i will like alot...

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

For WTF/Retro I would for sure like to see Sukapon. They've tried him...Twice?

Considering Mac's not really retro anymore, I don't know who else. A lot of retro ideas in the past seem to have been denied. Takamaru could be cool but two japanese Retro's have me fishy. Mike Jones would be cool but he's US Only iirc.

Regardless of what happens, just give me Sukapon in retro and I'll be happy.

I'm really disappointed that they didn't try to put Balloon Fighter back in the game. He was programed for Melee and was in its Beta, but nowhere in Brawl? Lame. I would love to see that, Balloon Fight was one of the first games I was genuinely addicted to as a kid.

 

[Mowrt620]

No one responded to my post from a couple days ago...



Oh, and I am liking the Slime-riding-on-Chocobo idea a lot. It is possibly the best compromise for a SquareEnix rep. No Final Fantasy characters are truly mascots of the franchise other than the Chocobo. No Dragon Quest characters are truly mascots of the franchise other than the Slime. And both characters together would represent the partnership between SquareSoft and Enix (now called SquareEnix). This is perfect. And better yet, no Cloud, Sora, Chrono, and Geno! All right, that settles it. I am now a Chocobo & Slime supporter and I don't even want third-party characters but if we are getting a SquareEnix rep, I am rooting for Chocobo & Slime.

Why does everyone like the idea of a chocabo? If anything, cloud, and he'd be to much anyhow. Sora and Geno are actually GOOD square-enix type reps.....
And for all who say sora isn't nintendo worthy, he's been on gameboy advance, and the ds, so save the yadda yadda balh blah blah....