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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Arcadenik

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I prefer toad over anyone.his playstyle would be fun. he would have bad jumps, but he would be as fast as captain falcon. he could pluck out teammates who are stuck in the ground. this would make toad a valuabble character in SSB4. and mabye alot of people will main him. this time, toad won't leave his bazooka at home. I will have fun using toad!
Toad's trophy description in Melee: "Toad, Peach's longtime servant, first showed off his strength in Super Mario Bros. 2, then proved to be an agile driver in Super Mario Kart. There are many Toads in Peach's castle and across the Mushroom Kingdom, and although they look similar, they have varied natures. Not the best of guards, Toad must often be rescued."

Toad's trophy description in Brawl: "One of the servants at Peach's Castle in the Mushroom Kingdom. Toads give off a strong sense of peace. Most feature white heads with red polka dots, but there are other colors as well. Toad's incredible uprooting speed in Super Mario Bros. 2 is unrivaled, adding to the rumor of his superhuman strength...however out of place it might seem."

See this? Sakurai knows that Toad is both an individual and a species. He also knows that Toad is very strong and fast even though he usually needs help from Mario (just like Peach). Since Sakurai mentioned Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Kart in Toad's trophies, I would think that Sakurai might like to incorporate these games into Toad's moveset.

B: Toad throws a Poison Mushroom to shrink a character like the CPU-controlled Toad did in Super Mario Kart

Side B: Toad uses a Golden Mushroom to run faster and tackle a character like in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!

Up B: since the two Toads will be playable in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, maybe Sakurai might like to give Toad the Propeller Suit to recover.... if no, he might as well give Toad the charged high jumps from Super Mario Bros. 2

Down B: the vegetables from Super Mario Bros. 2 since Toad's uprooting skills was mentioned on his Brawl trophy

Final Smash: I am not sure, but I think it would be very interesting if Toad pulled out the potion from Super Mario Bros. 2, and then entered the red door and ended up in Subspace where everything is black and blue, including the characters except Toad... and Toad's vegetables are replaced with coins which Toad can throw at the other characters... and the coins are more powerful than vegetables (maybe like Bonsly in Brawl)
 

Arcadenik

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I think he meant to say that Toad could be the second fastest in SSB4 after Sonic, who is the most fastest character.
 

.WC.

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Geno is not a good face of the Mario franchise. If we are going to add characters who aren't faces of the Mario franchise, at least pick the characters who are recurring and play major roles in several Mario games like Toad and Bowser Jr. Geno was only in one game and he is not a recurring major character.

Toad and Bowser Jr. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geno
I know that. He doesn't have to be a 'good face of the franchise'.

Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. do both have much better chances, though.
 

.WC.

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I know that. He doesn't have to be a 'good face of the franchise'.

Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. do both have much better chances, though.

I think he meant to say that Toad could be the second fastest in SSB4 after Sonic, who is the most fastest character.
Hell no. Toad should be approximately Lucas' speed.

EDIT: Oops. I clicked the quote button on my last post instead of the edit button... >.<
 

drag0nscythe

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I contributed by who just fit best with the lessest problems

one person complained that kirby would have 3 hats with the same abilities.

ridley can be resized but, what would he do when gets in the game?
Ridley fits fine with little problems. And your justification makes little sense to me. Yes, he would be resized. By how much is the question.
 

Arcadenik

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By how much is the question? Well, seeing how big Ridley is in Other M (Samus looks like an action figure compared to Ridley), it would be insane to shrink something that big to just twice Samus's height. At least Bowser can be as big as his own castle and be twice Mario's size however he wishes to be. He has the natural ability to change his own size at will, special thanks to a wonderful DS game called Bowser's Inside Story.
 

Paper Mario Master

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Anybody want me to post that Paper Mario moveset that I mentioned yesterday that less than MYM but more than just Specials and FS?

and I meant what if 4 is the last? Even though it probably won't be...
 

BBQTV

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r wii talking about clones? cuz eye wanna say their r no clones yeah no clones but their is luigifacion r u saying toon link and gannon r the same they different but those have very little luigifac done 2 them the fox characters r not the same nether is lucas or ness if im wrong tell me and dont bee a jerk about it
 

Clownbot

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r wii talking about clones? cuz eye wanna say their r no clones yeah no clones but their is luigifacion r u saying toon link and gannon r the same they different but those have very little luigifac done 2 them the fox characters r not the same nether is lucas or ness if im wrong tell me and dont bee a jerk about it
I could understand you a lot better if you were using punctuation and correct spelling/grammar. If you don't, your comments will just get less attention.

Anyway, I agree, everyone is unique it at least one way or another, but the fact that there are still semi-clones proves that the developers are willing to still make characters into semi-clones.
 

Paper Mario Master

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r wii talking about clones? cuz eye wanna say their r no clones yeah no clones but their is luigifacion r u saying toon link and gannon r the same they different but those have very little luigifac done 2 them the fox characters r not the same nether is lucas or ness if im wrong tell me and dont bee a jerk about it
You're right there aren't 2 Marios or 2 Falcons on the roster it's just the name given for characters that have similar moves. The only problem w/ them (Talking about Gannon and TL) is that they aren't "true" to their games, like Fire Rod and Hammer much? Magic energy much?
 

BBQTV

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Chrono would be okay, I guess.

Edit: Well, if characters from SMRPG are symbolic, then we already got three of them in Smash. Mario, Peach, and Bowser. At least those three are some of the faces of the Mario franchise. Geno is not one of the faces of the Mario franchise.
so who the hell is lucas
 

n88

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a) Lucas. Reconsider your point.

b) That's true, but it's highly likely that Square didn't want the character in due to being so unknown. What I did get from this point (which is valid) is that Square Enix must not care to increase Geno's popularity.

c) Two of the best games Nintendo ever created for their system, mind you.

d) Pics or it didn't happen
a) Lucas' inclusion hurts Geno. If he's already got one unrecognizable character, why add another?

b) Nothing to say

c) Fair enough

d)
Melee Polls (For Mario series):

Super Mario series
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamec: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8) Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(8) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3
He lost to Goomba. Ouch.
 

.WC.

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a) Lucas' inclusion hurts Geno. If he's already got one unrecognizable character, why add another?

b) Nothing to say

c) Fair enough

d)
Melee Polls (For Mario series):



He lost to Goomba. Ouch.
All I have to say is at least he made it on the list.

a) Why not? Videogames are about money, and money is made by advertisement. If someone who has never seen a certain character before and plays SSB with the character in it finding them interesting, don't you agree that they'd likely do some research as to find the game of origin for that character? I certainly did with Lucas, because everyone said he was portrayed differently in brawl than in the actual game.

Anybody want me to post that Paper Mario moveset that I mentioned yesterday that less than MYM but more than just Specials and FS?
Go for it. I have one, too.
 

BBQTV

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I could understand you a lot better if you were using punctuation and correct spelling/grammar. If you don't, your comments will just get less attention.

Anyway, I agree, everyone is unique it at least one way or another, but the fact that there are still semi-clones proves that the developers are willing to still make characters into semi-clones.
ok will do :)
You're right there aren't 2 Marios or 2 Falcons on the roster it's just the name given for characters that have similar moves. The only problem w/ them (Talking about Gannon and TL) is that they aren't "true" to their games, like Fire Rod and Hammer much? Magic energy much?
i dont think the clone thing is a big issue because only 2 really suffer from it though laziness and if something can even be done has to also be taken in to account
 

.WC.

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Hopefully Sakurai isn't in charge of movesets in the next installment.
 

BBQTV

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Ever play Brawl?

Btw, that quote had no relation whatsoever to your comment.
im sure some people dont know geno and lucas is japan only and their in - geno but it doesn't matter i guess if their japan only he's in brawl
 

Arcadenik

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Lucas is the face of Mother 3 and this game came out in 2006... and Sakurai started developing Brawl in 2005. So Lucas was very recent. And besides, Sakurai always wanted to add Lucas in Smash since Melee.

Mario, not Geno, is the face of Super Mario RPG. Hell, even Bowser and Peach were on the box cover with Mario... and I don't see Geno anywhere on the box cover. This tells me that Nintendo was using Mario, Peach, and Bowser to advertise Super Mario RPG back in 1996. Geno did not make people want to buy Super Mario RPG back in 1996.
 

.WC.

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Lucas is the face of Mother 3 and this game came out in 2006... and Sakurai started developing Brawl in 2005. So Lucas was very recent. And besides, Sakurai always wanted to add Lucas in Smash since Melee.

Mario, not Geno, is the face of Super Mario RPG. Hell, even Bowser and Peach were on the box cover with Mario... and I don't see Geno anywhere on the box cover. This tells me that Nintendo was using Mario, Peach, and Bowser to advertise Super Mario RPG back in 1996. Geno did not make people want to buy Super Mario RPG back in 1996.
this game came out in 2006

Sakurai always wanted to add Lucas in smash since Melee.

Contradiction, much? And no ****. Mario is the face of EVERY game, because they're MARIO games. Again, the box cover doesn't mean jack. The content does.
 

Arcadenik

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I knew about Lucas before he got in Brawl. Why? Because I researched all over the Internet for history of Nintendo from 2002 to 2005. In fact, I wanted Lucas to replace Ness in Brawl because I didn't think the Mother series needed two reps. Now both Lucas and Ness are some of my mains. Go figure!

Edit: There is no contradiction. Sakurai wanted Lucas since Melee because Mother 3 was originally going to be on the Nintendo 64 - it was going to be called EarthBound 64. But that game got cancelled so Sakurai decided to keep Ness and not add Lucas in Melee. Like I said before, I did research.
 

BBQTV

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I knew about Lucas before he got in Brawl. Why? Because I researched all over the Internet for history of Nintendo from 2002 to 2005. In fact, I wanted Lucas to replace Ness in Brawl because I didn't think the Mother series needed two reps. Now both Lucas and Ness are some of my mains. Go figure!
why do you want lucas to replace ness?
 

.WC.

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I knew about Lucas before he got in Brawl. Why? Because I researched all over the Internet for history of Nintendo from 2002 to 2005. In fact, I wanted Lucas to replace Ness in Brawl because I didn't think the Mother series needed two reps. Now both Lucas and Ness are some of my mains. Go figure!
You know what I find funny? Lucas has a tether and Yoshi doesn't. Lucas' tether is pretty much superfluous.

I see Lucas as more of a noob-friendly character, which is why I prefer Ness.
 

Arcadenik

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I knew about Lucas before he got in Brawl. Why? Because I researched all over the Internet for history of Nintendo from 2002 to 2005. In fact, I wanted Lucas to replace Ness in Brawl because I didn't think the Mother series needed two reps. Now both Lucas and Ness are some of my mains. Go figure!
why do you want lucas to replace ness?
You gotta be kidding me. I explained why on my post. Look, I highlighted it for you.
 

Arcadenik

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I like both Ness and Lucas. They feel very different. Lucas plays very differently from Ness. They have their strengths and weaknesses so they are good in my book.
 

Pieman0920

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You are a hypocrite, Pieman. You say Toad shouldn't be given made-up moves and yet you support Mona and wants to make up moves for her based on microgames or her pets or something. You say Toad is not really a fighter... but Mona is not a fighter. At least Toad and Toads had some combat experience... something Mona severely lacks.
That's a different case, where the moves are based on their actions, as well as the contents of their games. In addition, I said the use of her animal helpers could be used too, who wouldn't need moves made up for them. The only way this type of borrowing from the series would really work for Toad though is if his moveset was based around the sports games, though that seems like something that would be done for Waluigi (Who for the record has less of a chance than Toad) Additionally, I must restate that I'm not saying that Toad can't get in, but rather that his chances aren't nearly as high as you state they are. Heck, Mona's chances are iffy at best.

If Toad was in Smash, he could throw Poison Mushrooms to shrink characters like he did in Super Mario Kart, use Golden Mushrooms from Mario Kart: Double Dash!! to charge to run and tackle down a character, pull out and throw vegetables from Super Mario Bros. 2, and even hover in the air with the Propeller Suit from New Super Mario Bros. Wii. He would be a speedy lightweight with incredible superstrength contrary to his small size and, if Sakurai wants to, have the ability to run up on walls like in Wario's Woods.
So he'd use a item, a move that's been done to death already (egg roll, withdraw, Wario Bike, Rollout. Take you pick) Peach's move, and one pottentially creative move that would still probably end up like Snake's' up special.

And not as a part of the debate whether Toad would get in or not, but wouldn't a small, fast, and super strong character not be a good idea?

Oh, I love how you argue that "if we let generic races join Smash, we should add Koopa or Shy guy" as an attempt to put down Toad. Toads are far more important than these generic races. You never play as Goomba, Koopa, Shy Guy, etc. in canonical games. They are only playable in spin-off games. But Yoshis and Toads have been playable outside spin-off games. Yoshis and Toads are the most important generic races in Mario canon. Also, Toad is next in line on the Melee poll with 27 votes after Bowser (169), Peach (66), and Wario (65).
How are Toads more important? Toad was only put into SMB2 as a filler character to take up Papa's space, and since then never was playable in the main games, though it seems two different colored Toads will show up in NSMBWii (Why they didn't just have the normal Toad, and use the 4th slot on Wario or Peach is beyond me) Yoshi wasn't really playable either, seeing as he was just a mount. (Though that did change when he got his own series, which he's represented under) Koopas, Shy Guys, and Goombas (Who I'm not really going to advocate due to the fact that they simply have no arms, but when you mention the other two, you kind of have to include them) are the main flunkies you see in like 90% of Mario games, and are actually active in said games, instead of sitting on the side giving information. Still I guess I shouldn't really comment on this whole thing until more info is given on NSMBWii, since that could be a turning point for Toad, depending on his technical role in it, in relation to the two playable Toads within the game.

Oh, and on the Geno debate that's been going on, Geno's not getting in. For established series, mostly all the newer characters who are added actually have some importance to the series, and don't upstage those who have more. There are several Mario characters who are better known, have contributed more to the series, and have actually had a role in more than one game (main series or not) including Toad, Bowser Jr, Paper Mario, Dr Mario, Baby friggen Mario, Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Koopa Troopa, Goomba, Shy Guy, the Hammer Brothers, King Boo, Petey Piranha, the Koopalings, and even Rosalina. On top of that, Geno's third party, and his last (and only) big role was from a game that came out over 10 years ago. Yes he has moveset pottential, and yes he has some noisy fans, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a old, nude, SE-owned-yet-still-part-of-the-Mario-franchise, undeserving character. The only way I could think of him getting in is if SE teamed up with Nintendo, and they decided to throw in Geno on top of the FF or DQ character that really is supposed to represent the company.
 

BBQTV

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pieman said something hypothetical like SE joining nintendo if they do we see ff reps over geno by a mile maybe sora if cloud is in the game he would be an ike and thats pointless if sephiroth was in he might be top tier because of his swords reach and depending on how fast he is if you respond dont be a jerk
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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pieman said something hypothetical like SE joining nintendo if they do we see ff reps over geno by a mile maybe sora if cloud is in the game he would be an ike and thats pointless if sephiroth was in he might be top tier because of his swords reach and depending on how fast he is if you respond dont be a jerk
I don't want to be rude, but do you even have any attention span? Pieman clearly said that the only way that Geno gets in would be if Nintendo and SE team up, along with adding their own 3rd party rep for SE. He didn't say anything about them throwing FF reps up the wazoo.

Also, try not to use run-on sentences.

Know what? SSB needs more villains. Not as bosses. Like Vaati.
Sure, I can vouch for that (the relevant ones, mind). K. Rool and Ridley (and possibly Claus) need to be in.

I don't expect Vaati to make it in the roster, though, since he's less relevant.
 
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