[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[hiROI]

I believe Daisy could have a spot. They can make a completely new style, she does not have to be a clone of Peach

 

[akkon888]

Seriously should add Wobbuffet to the brawl.

Black Knight, of course.

 

[Wizzerd]

I believe Daisy could have a spot. They can make a completely new style, she does not have to be a clone of Peach

Nah, her only non-spinoff appearance was Super Mario Land.

Seriously should add Wobbuffet to the brawl.

Black Knight, of course.

Dunno about Wobuffet, but Pokemon will probably get a new rep. And as for Fire Emblem, it should be a new lord or Roy.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do get a new Mario char since he is so popular but I wouldn't mind either way as long as Mario, Zelda and Pokemon stay at the top and I do think reping new ones (it would be better with both though). ​

Yeah, Mario being the face of Nintendo and of gaming in general, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I do think new series should take some priority, though. Yeah, I guess we'll need both.

 

[n88]

I believe Daisy could have a spot. They can make a completely new style, she does not have to be a clone of Peach

Nah, her only non-spinoff appearance was Super Mario Land.

That doesn't really mean much. Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario, two of the most supported characters, only have three game appearances each (non-spinoff). Waluigi, another character with a lot of support, has zero.

 

[Wizzerd]

That doesn't really mean much. Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario, two of the most supported characters, only have three game appearances each (non-spinoff). Waluigi, another character with a lot of support, has zero.

Well, unlike Daisy, Paper Mario was the main character in all of his games. He's also well-liked, and he has a living series where he'll keep getting roles. Bowser Jr... that's true, but being a main antagonist in all of them is good. And Waluigi just shouldn't be in.

 

[Big-Cat]

That doesn't really mean much. Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario, two of the most supported characters, only have three game appearances each (non-spinoff). Waluigi, another character with a lot of support, has zero.

Well Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. have appeared in more canon games (In Paper Mario's case, his own series.) in 9 years than Daisy has in her 15+ years of being around.

 

[Wizzerd]

Well Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. have appeared in more canon games (In Paper Mario's case, his own series.) in 9 years than Daisy has in her 15+ years of being around.

Thank you! Paper Mario is so awesome.

 

[n88]

Well Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. have appeared in more canon games (In Paper Mario's case, his own series.) in 9 years than Daisy has in her 15+ years of being around.

Point.
Daisy probably won't be in, and shouldn't. If she gets in, she'll probably be a clone of Peach. The only way she'll get in is if Sakurai/new director of Smash decides that more female characters should be in.

 

[Red Arremer]

Point.
Daisy probably won't be in, and shouldn't. If she gets in, she'll probably be a clone of Peach. The only way she'll get in is if Sakurai/new director of Smash decides that more female characters should be in.

Even then I think she wouldn't have good chances simply because of her being so unimportant, I'd rather see other female characters like Barbara the Bat or Lip in before Daisy should ever be thought of getting in.
I think she is perfectly fine as alt costume for Peach

 

[Wizzerd]

Point.
Daisy probably won't be in, and shouldn't. If she gets in, she'll probably be a clone of Peach. The only way she'll get in is if Sakurai/new director of Smash decides that more female characters should be in.

And putting in characters because they're female makes no sense. We should put in the characters with significance and popularity. The only females who really deserve to get in right now are Lip

Spoiler

and Impa

and possibly Captain Syrup.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Now you're just being ignorant. Paper Mario has never thrown a fireball, whipped a cape or used a water gun. Paper Mario has many unique abilities like hammering, Spin Dashing, Ultra/Spring Jumping and flipping. And generic cloned punches and kicks aren't conducive to a character who tends to rely on his partners.

That doesn't mean anything in Super Smash Bros. Captain Falcon had a completely original moveset, as he stayed in a car in his game.
Paper Mario does have potential, but him being a "clone" of Mario is possible, and could happen.

And as for Fire Emblem, it should be a new lord or Roy.

No, Fire Emblem needs a villain, as do all the other franchises in Smash. Also, Roy doesn't need to return. He was an advert for the release of Fire Emblem for the GBA.
Marth was the character Sakurai planned for Melee- Roy was put in because he had time to create new characters, or a lot of clones.

 

[Wizzerd]

That doesn't mean anything in Super Smash Bros. Captain Falcon had a completely original moveset, as he stayed in a car in his game.
Paper Mario does have potential, but him being a "clone" of Mario is possible, and could happen.

I guess he could be a clone. That would make me very angry, though, since he wouldn't make any sense as a clone of Mario.

No, Fire Emblem needs a villain, as do all the other franchises in Smash. Also, Roy doesn't need to return. He was an advert for the release of Fire Emblem for the GBA.
Marth was the character Sakurai planned for Melee- Roy was put in because he had time to create new characters, or a lot of clones.

Having villians is well and good, but not for the sake of being villians. Now that I think about it, Black Knight has the popularity and the games...hmm... and as for Roy, I guess he could be replaced with any lord, preferably a new one. So between Black Knight and a new lord for the new Fire Emblem rep.

 

[Ochobobo]

Paper Mario sounds kind of like he would be a mix between Mario and Game and Watch. He'd have moves with low framerates and randomly pull out objects like a Hammer or such to attack.

If they really put some creative effort into it, he could be a good character.

 

[justaway12]

I guess he could be a clone. That would make me very angry, though, since he wouldn't make any sense as a clone of Mario.

I know. I would also get angry but I guess a lot of people got angry about Toon Link, Ganondorf, Lucas and possibly Roy being somewhat similar (same B moves like Lucas) or clones when they could have been completly unique (not sure about Roy or Lucas since I don't know about their game though). ​

 

[Mythic02]

Now you're just being ignorant. Paper Mario has never thrown a fireball, whipped a cape or used a water gun. Paper Mario has many unique abilities like hammering, Spin Dashing, Ultra/Spring Jumping and flipping. And generic cloned punches and kicks aren't conducive to a character who tends to rely on his partners.

If you read what i said you'd see that i said paper mario doesn't have to be a clone. I personally think they are totally different characters and that if paper mario was in he should be a spin off character like yoshi and wario. I'm not being ignorant, i'm having a different viewpoint.

Even with Paper mario as a contender for a mario spot, toad is still third. Bowser jr. currently has a better shot because he is more current. But still, toad has had more chance than others. Toad has been in all spin offs and is more important than Waluigi and Daisy. Toad is less Generic than goombas piantas and nokis because there was originally one toad.

Toad is third for smash, which is pretty good. If paper mario gets his own little spin off spot like he should then Toad is second. I predict two more mario characters in the next game So toad has a good chance soon.

As for why there will be two more characters, The big three needs to stay high above the rest to prevent less important series from getting the same amount. This means more series can have more characters and keep the ratio the same.

 

[DekuBoy]

Paper Mario, Toon Link... oh snap! WATERCOLOUR SAMUS FOR SSB4!

 

[Wizzerd]

If you read what i said you'd see that i said paper mario doesn't have to be a clone. I personally think they are totally different characters and that if paper mario was in he should be a spin off character like yoshi and wario. I'm not being ignorant, i'm having a different viewpoint.

Even with Paper mario as a contender for a mario spot, toad is still third. Bowser jr. currently has a better shot because he is more current. But still, toad has had more chance than others. Toad has been in all spin offs and is more important than Waluigi and Daisy. Toad is less Generic than goombas piantas and nokis because there was originally one toad.

Toad is third for smash, which is pretty good. If paper mario gets his own little spin off spot like he should then Toad is second. I predict two more mario characters in the next game So toad has a good chance soon.

As for why there will be two more characters, The big three needs to stay high above the rest to prevent less important series from getting the same amount. This means more series can have more characters and keep the ratio the same.

Yes, I guess Toad is third as of now, but we don't need to bring in more than two new Mario characters. And I agree that Paper Mario should be represented as a different series than regular Mario, because of how different Paper Mario is from mainstream Mario.

I personally don't want the outdated "Toad" at all, but Sakurai being dumb with roster choices means he has a chance.

 

[n88]

Yes, I guess Toad is third as of now, but we don't need to bring in more than two new Mario characters. And I agree that Paper Mario should be represented as a different series than regular Mario, because of how different Paper Mario is from mainstream Mario.

I personally don't want the outdated "Toad" at all, but Sakurai being dumb with roster choices means he has a chance.

Sakurai isn't really dumb with roster choices, he just picks strange characters.

 

[Wizzerd]

Sakurai isn't really dumb with roster choices, he just picks strange characters.

I guess so... why bring in a third Star Fox rep, not put in Ridley, take out Mewtwo, etc.

 

[n88]

Wolf is supposed to be very popular in Japan. I don't think he was sure what to do with Ridley. Ridley's kinda big. He is aware of Ridley's popularity, however. He was two bosses in SSE. I've heard Mewtwo and Lucario compared to "Flavors of the Month." I don't remember who said it, but they were definitely right. Unless people really whine about Mewtwo being gone, Lucario will probably be replaced by some other popular new pokemon.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I guess so... why bring in a third Star Fox rep, not put in Ridley, take out Mewtwo, etc.

It was Mewtwo or Jigglypuff if I remember correctly, so he chose Jigglypuff, which is a good choice.
He was planning to include Mewtwo at some point, possibly towards the end of development, but he needed to add Sonic and didn't have the time.

 

[Lord Viper]

I guess so... why bring in a third Star Fox rep, not put in Ridley, take out Mewtwo, etc.

☆ Wolf is the **** that's why. Ridley is a broken Charizard, and Mewtwo would be Uber broken in Brawl since they messed him up in Melee.[/Joke Post] ☆

 

[KillxSmile]

I think Paper Mario should definitely get a spot in...
As for Toad and Bowser Jr., i wouldn't mind them, but i really can't see Toad being in.

Do you think you could make a possible moveset?
Or if you've already made one, where can i see it?

I wonder what Paper Mario's little emblem would be where his percentile is

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Paper Mario's move set's would most likely be form Paper Mario Thousand Year Door since that's were most of the awesome attacks came from like Super Nova, (that could be his Final Smash). As for his emblem, I don't think it would change from the Mushroom since he is Mario and Paper Mario is a Mario game, lol. ☆

 

[Mit]

Yeah he should. And it isn't because Ridley is epic...well, he is, but it isn't my reason. Metroid has been under-repped for...what...7-8 years? That's why we also need Goroh. Badly.

But anyway, despite opinions I've heard on BOTH games, I think Camus would be an entertaining Fire Emblem rep. I don't expect him to be on a HORSE or anything, but the Gradivus Lance looks like it could be fun in smash. REALLY fun.

Spoiler

I might even enter Camus in MYM5 now that I thought of it.

Pokemon, Mario, and LoZ are at the point where they either need to switch out reps, or add another row to the roster so they all get one. I think adding another row works better, because of one thing: Every mario rep is VERY important.

EDIT: I would prefer Darkurai over a 5th gen legendary, IMO. And on a side note, to the guy who said Rayquaza should be a pokeball pokemon.......I can see him as doing nothing more than what Onix did in 64, but with energy balls instead of boulders.

Bringing back a really old quote in response to one of my posts.

Just because Metroid and F-Zero are under-repped doesn't mean you should just grab any old character and throw them in. They aren't under-repped because Nintendo doesn't feel like it, they're under-repped because they don't have any more suitable/popular enough characters.

Ridley should always be huge, around the size he was in Brawl, therefore he'd never work as a character. If anything Dark Samus would be more fitting (perhaps a faster, heavier Samus with less powerful projectiles and more Phazon/psychic-like moves.) The most popular other F-Zero characters are Black Shadow, Samurai Goro, and Blood Falcon. Blood Falcon is already an alternate costume, and the other two characters I just don't think are well known enough to be included, although I could see Black Shadow being in and taking Ganondorf's moveset, and giving Ganondorf a totally unique moveset.

Someone also commented they still think Animal Crossing and Mii's should be in, but really. I don't think you can argue with their reasoning behind it. Animal Crossing is a franchise based around everyday tasks and living a sort of alternate life, and involves no form of violence whatsoever. Sure you could think up a moveset easily, involving shovels and bug nets and the like, and sure it'd be great to us, but they just don't want to involve the series in that way, or show the lovable characters being beat to a pulp. Mii's, in order for it to not be half-*****, they'd need to allow us to make custom movesets, and that's just not somewhere they wanted to go I'm sure. Can you imagine how much of a nightmare that'd make tournaments as well? Leave 'em out I say.

 

[KillxSmile]

nahh i know Paper Mario could have a good movest
i meant Toad.

 

[Wizzerd]

☆ Paper Mario's move set's would most likely be form Paper Mario Thousand Year Door since that's were most of the awesome attacks came from like Super Nova, (that could be his Final Smash). As for his emblem, I don't think it would change from the Mushroom since he is Mario and Paper Mario is a Mario game, lol. ☆

Symbol could be a star, since the Mario RPGs have lots of stars in them. We have the Star Pieces, the Beanstar, the Cobalt Star, the Star Spirits and the Crystal Stars. If they want to be recent, or they think a star would be too generic, it could be a heart (Pure Hearts from SPM) even if SPM was easily the worst Paper Mario.

His moveset would be easy.
B: Flip
B>: Spindash
B^: Ultra Jump
Bv: Superguard
Final Smash: Supernova

Here's a moveset for Paper Mario, though it only represents Thousand Year Door.

 

[n88]

Bringing back a really old quote in response to one of my posts.

Just because Metroid and F-Zero are under-repped doesn't mean you should just grab any old character and throw them in. They aren't under-repped because Nintendo doesn't feel like it, they're under-repped because they don't have any more suitable/popular enough characters.

Ridley should always be huge, around the size he was in Brawl, therefore he'd never work as a character. If anything Dark Samus would be more fitting (perhaps a faster, heavier Samus with less powerful projectiles and more Phazon/psychic-like moves.) The most popular other F-Zero characters are Black Shadow, Samurai Goro, and Blood Falcon. Blood Falcon is already an alternate costume, and the other two characters I just don't think are well known enough to be included, although I could see Black Shadow being in and taking Ganondorf's moveset, and giving Ganondorf a totally unique moveset.

Some good points here. But you can't say a character isn't well-known enough to be in. The Ice Climbers were hardly known before Melee came out, Pit had kind of faded into obscurity prior to his appearance in Brawl, and Captain Falcon himself isn't very well known.

 

[Mit]

Well due to Captain Falcon himself not being very well-known, I think that's why they aren't pushing to put more F-Zero characters in. As far as Ice Climbers and Pit, even characters like Game & Watch, I think those characters are all along the lines of Captain Falcon. The main protagonist of a not very well-known game/franchise.

Heck, if Falcon wasn't one of the original 12, and didn't become his own kind of celebrity through the Smash Bros. series, he might not even be in the games anymore. It's kind of like Jigglypuff. There are plenty of Pokemon I'd rather have in the game, but Jiggs is a classic, and will probably always be a part of the series.

Although then again he wouldn't, because they seem to be trying to pull atleast one character from every Nintendo franchise possible.

 

[n88]

Well due to Captain Falcon himself not being very well-known, I think that's why they aren't pushing to put more F-Zero characters in. As far as Ice Climbers and Pit, even characters like Game & Watch, I think those characters are all along the lines of Captain Falcon. The main protagonist of a not very well-known game/franchise.

Heck, if Falcon wasn't one of the original 12, and didn't become his own kind of celebrity through the Smash Bros. series, he might not even be in the games anymore. It's kind of like Jigglypuff. There are plenty of Pokemon I'd rather have in the game, but Jiggs is a classic, and will probably always be a part of the series.

Although then again he wouldn't, because they seem to be trying to pull atleast one character from every Nintendo franchise possible.

I believe Ness was planned to be replaced by Lucas in Melee, right? So the original 12 isn't automatically into a new game. Of course, now they've all been in three games, not one, so their resumes are a bit longer.

One thing I've wanted to get people's opinions on is whether or not they want Sakurai directing SSB4. Some people refer to Brawl as a big mistake, and hate Sakurai for it. Personally, I think his only real mistake was tripping. Brawl is what it is because people complained about what Melee was.

The complaints I heard most about Melee:
1) It's too fast
2) I don't like the controls
3) Too many #**@! clones
4) Pichu sucks

Brawl:
a) Is slowed down
b) Offers more control options
c) Has fewer, more differentiated clones
d) Does not have Pichu

Obviously, complaint #1 didn't come from competitive players, and Pichu would have been taken out regardless of popular opinion. But really, all Sakurai did (In terms of Vs. mode) was fix what people complained about and added tripping.

 

[KillxSmile]

Heck, if Falcon wasn't one of the original 12, and didn't become his own kind of celebrity through the Smash Bros. series, he might not even be in the games anymore. It's kind of like Jigglypuff. There are plenty of Pokemon I'd rather have in the game, but Jiggs is a classic, and will probably always be a part of the series.
.

I like Jiggs being there and all, but i gladly replace her with Meowth. i always thought he deserved a spot. Jigglypuff's popularity and placement in Smash Bros. was based off her role in the anime anyways, and Meowth's role in the anime is much bigger.

 

[UncleSam]

But really, all Sakurai did (In terms of Vs. mode) was fix what people complained about and added tripping.

thus giving us more to complain about

 

[CRASHiC]

Brawl is the same speed as 64, so I don't see what people ***** about.

 

[Wizzerd]

One thing I've wanted to get people's opinions on is whether or not they want Sakurai directing SSB4. Some people refer to Brawl as a big mistake, and hate Sakurai for it. Personally, I think his only real mistake was tripping. Brawl is what it is because people complained about what Melee was.

Sakurai can be a disappointment sometimes, but he should stay the director. Smash just isn't Smash without him. He's really the only one who knows the series and how to continue it.

 

[SmashChu]

Ridley should always be huge, around the size he was in Brawl, therefore he'd never work as a character.

You do realize that when he's on the ground, he's about Bowser's height.

AGAIN, saying they can't do it is nonsense. Too often people say "They can't add X because of Y," and then end up adding said character (i.e. Olimar). It's silly to think they can't get said character to work.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Bringing back a really old quote in response to one of my posts.

Ridley should always be huge, around the size he was in Brawl, therefore he'd never work as a character. If anything Dark Samus would be more fitting (perhaps a faster, heavier Samus with less powerful projectiles and more Phazon/psychic-like moves.) .

What? A clone of Samus? Sounds like you want them to take Samus, do the wonderful transformation they played on Lucas and Wolf and pop out Dark samus.

No. The fact is, there is no logical or reasonable excuse to exclude Ridley. There is none. He is the 2nd most popular Metroid character. He should be the next Metroid Rep.

 

[Red Arremer]

That is correct. With only two exceptions - Metroid Prime Hunters and Metroid Prime Pinball - of which the latter is a spin-off and the other one is debatable of being one, Ridley has appeared in each and every Metroid game to date.

He also plays a far more major role than Dark Samus ever could wish for, with being one of the leaders of the Space Pirates, and the one who destroyed Samus' homeplanet and killed her parents. So yea. He's basically the reason Samus became a bounty hunter.

 

[G-Beast]

Unless people really whine about Mewtwo being gone, Lucario will probably be replaced by some other popular new pokemon.

yeah... that makes me sad =(

does anyone else besides me think that some form of Megaman, Zero, and a few others from their series deserve to be included?

@ spadefox: Ridley was not in Metroid prime 2. he didnt destroy her homeworld.. just the space station that they were on. actually, i dont think he was in metroid 2 either... but i am not sure. what about Sylux? second only to samus in bounty hunting... and he is goign to be in the next metroid game that retro studio's is making

 

[Red Arremer]

I never played Metroid Prime 2, so I didn't know. And yea, I tend to forget the Game Boy game.

But he did indeed destroy Samus' homeplanet.
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/K-2L

 

[G-Beast]

well that's weird... all the games made it sound like it was a space station o.o but i stand corrected, thanks =)

here is my wishlist for SSB4:

features:
a story mode like SSE except with less repetitive enemies
MUCH better online
harder-to-unlock characters
some kind of online ranking system
keep ALOT of the music from brawl

roster:
keep Lucario!!!!
Megaman X(he hasent been in a fighting game yet, all the other megaman's have)
Zero(both MMX and MMZ skins)
Harpuia
Fefnir
Phantom
Leviathan(all four of them were somewhat playable in megaman Zero 3 via mini games, and have only appeared on nintendo systems.... they have been in 5(4 for phantom) games so far if you count their biometal selves in the ZX series)
Sylux
Ridley/Meta Ridley
Dark Samus
Midna
Wolf Link(instead of some link clone)
some form of F-Zero support for the cappn'
an updated pokemon trainer
Rosalina

i think that's it.... they are some characters to my knowledge that i personally think deserve to be in smash, some of them(like all the megaman characters) should have made it to brawl T.T