[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mythic02]

Lucas is considered a clone for his B-moves and similar moves. smash forward-a, and all but his neutral B. they act a little bit different but so do most clone moves.

 

[Wizzerd]

Specials, Final Smash, FTilt, DTilt and FSmash are pretty much the only similar attacks (with Ness and Lucas).

 

[Mythic02]

@Wizzerd: That is enough to be considered a clone. Though to be fair, brawl really didn't have true clones. The only real clones are ganon and toon link. (maybe sakurai has something against LoZ?) Lucas is one of the more clonish ones though. He's kind of like falco in terms of how much of a clone they are.

uggh, this clone business makes my head hurt.

 

[Red Arremer]

So you think Luigi, Wolf and Meta Knight are clones, too? Cause if you say Lucas is a clone, so are those aforementioned characters.

 

[Mit]

You do realize that when he's on the ground, he's about Bowser's height.

AGAIN, saying they can't do it is nonsense. Too often people say "They can't add X because of Y," and then end up adding said character (i.e. Olimar). It's silly to think they can't get said character to work.

Saying that when he's hunched over his height is the same as Bowser's, therefore he isn't too big, is nonsense.

Do you see how huge he is? And rightfully so. Just because he can stoop to be as low as Bowser doesn't change that he's still roughly 3x his size. Again, if they were to ever do another Metroid character, I think it would be Dark Samus, or no one else at all. Although when you think about it, their form of further Metroid support was probably Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Wizzerd]

@Wizzerd: That is enough to be considered a clone. Though to be fair, brawl really didn't have true clones. The only real clones are ganon and toon link. (maybe sakurai has something against LoZ?) Lucas is one of the more clonish ones though. He's kind of like falco in terms of how much of a clone they are.

uggh, this clone business makes my head hurt.

No, not really. While they share similar moves, they all function completely different. Lucas makes fiery explosions, but Ness makes pillars of flame. Ness does one high knockback hit and Lucas does multiple hits. The moves are similar, but they add up into completely different characters and playstyles.

 

[Red Arremer]

Words and fancy pic

Again... I think I'll post that every page for people to realize:
SUPER SMASH BROS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A CANON GAME. IT IS MEANT TO BE A FUN GAME IN WHICH YOUR FAVOURITE NINTENDO CHARACTERS FIGHT EACH OTHER.

And again:
ORIGINALLY OLIMAR HAS THE SIZE OF A COIN

 

[Mit]

Again... I think I'll post that every page for people to realize:
SUPER SMASH BROS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A CANON GAME. IT IS MEANT TO BE A FUN GAME IN WHICH YOUR FAVOURITE NINTENDO CHARACTERS FIGHT EACH OTHER.

And again:
ORIGINALLY OLIMAR HAS THE SIZE OF A COIN

-.-

Surely you can get my point, and realize that Olimar is a rather weak argument.

A smaller Ridley? One that's hardly even larger than Samus? (seeing as Samus is amongst the taller characters in Smash Bros.) It just wouldn't look right, to the point that I'd rather he not even be in the game. He's much better suited as a boss character.

If anything, Smash Bros could go the tag-team route, and have giant characters that are not allowed teammates, a la giant golden man and giant Lost Planet mech in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. Then I'd be ok with Ridley being in the game.

Otherwise, meh. Also his wings, even when shrunk down, would be quite large. He's never going to be a playable Smash character >_>

 

[Red Arremer]

Why is Olimar a weak argument? He was MAJORLY sized up.

And I repeat:
SUPER SMASH BROS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A CANON GAME. IT IS MEANT TO BE A FUN GAME IN WHICH YOUR FAVOURITE NINTENDO CHARACTERS FIGHT EACH OTHER.

 

[Mit]

Why is Olimar a weak argument? He was MAJORLY sized up.

For one, there's nothing to compare him to. When he's in the Pikmin level, he's normal-sized, and everyone is shrunk.

Putting in a small version of Ridley would be like putting in a tiny Beady Long Legs from Pikmin. It would look like a toy next to Olimar.

Plus, he's just a little person. Most people who casually see Olimar probably don't even know he's tiny.

And I repeat:
SUPER SMASH BROS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A CANON GAME. IT IS MEANT TO BE A FUN GAME IN WHICH YOUR FAVOURITE NINTENDO CHARACTERS FIGHT EACH OTHER.

So? I'm sure Nintendo doesn't care about that when it comes to character depictions. A small Ridley wouldn't look right next to Samus, and I'm sure he'll therefore remain a boss character.

 

[jokey665]

For one, there's nothing to compare him to. When he's in the Pikmin level, he's normal-sized, and everyone is shrunk.

Putting in a small version of Ridley would be like putting in a tiny Beady Long Legs from Pikmin. It would look like a toy next to Olimar.

Plus, he's just a little person. Most people who casually see Olimar probably don't even know he's tiny.


Nintendo doesn't care about that when it comes to character depictions. A small Ridley wouldn't look right next to Samus, and I'm sure he'll therefore remain a boss character.

They have a size comparison chart in the manual of Pikmin showing him next to a GCN memory card, disk, and controller. So there is something to compare him to. Also, note that Kirby canonically is 8 inches tall.

 

[Mit]

They have a size comparison chart in the manual of Pikmin showing him next to a GCN memory card, disk, and controller. So there is something to compare him to. Also, note that Kirby canonically is 8 inches tall.

You did not comprehend my point. Read the whole post and try again. I was referring to nothing to compare him to in Smash Bros.

Oh and, the same point will apply to Kirby and friends as well. Everything from Kirby has therefore been enlarged, seeing a large Kirby next to Mario does not look out of place.

 

[Red Arremer]

 

[jokey665]

You did not comprehend my point. Read the whole post and try again. I was referring to nothing to compare him to in Smash Bros.

Oh and, the same point will apply to Kirby and friends as well. Everything from Kirby has therefore been enlarged, seeing a large Kirby next to Mario does not look out of place.

Since you're apparently just throwing out anything that you feel like, I'm going with the most sure-fire way to either make you understand or just make you look like an idiot.

Bowser is huge in Mario 64 compare to Mario, not so much in Smash.

Mario 64:

Smash:

 

[Mit]

-.-

Bowser has been many different sizes throughout Mario games. He is also OFTEN depicted in every single Mario sports title as being the same size as he is in Smash Bros. games. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't throw bathtub Bowser at me, or Mario Galaxy Bowser, they're both much larger. Bowser looks fine at the size he is in Smash Bros. Ridley however, would not.

Ridley has always been depicted as much larger than Samus, and again, his wingspan is enormous, along with his tail, and it would be very difficult to shrink him down to a manageable size. The result would obviously look ludicrous, and that is why Nintendo (wisely) does not make him a playable Smash Bros. character, because he's much better suited as a large boss character.

 

[Red Arremer]

Ridley has always been depicted as much larger than Samus, and again, his wingspan is enormous, along with his tail, and it would be very difficult to shrink him down to a manageable size. The result would obviously look ludicrous, and that is why Nintendo (wisely) does not make him a playable Smash Bros. character, because he's much better suited as a large boss character.

If I may repost...

 

[jokey665]

-.-

Bowser has been many different sizes throughout Mario games. He is also OFTEN depicted in every single Mario sports title as being the same size as he is in Smash Bros. games. Heck, I'm surprised you didn't throw bathtub Bowser at me, or Mario Galaxy Bowser, they're both much larger. Bowser looks fine at the size he is in Smash Bros. Ridley however, would not.

Ridley has always been depicted as much larger than Samus, and again, his wingspan is enormous, along with his tail, and it would be very difficult to shrink him down to a manageable size. The result would obviously look ludicrous, and that is why Nintendo (wisely) does not make him a playable Smash Bros. character, because he's much better suited as a large boss character.

The point is, they've shown they have no problem resizing character to suit their needs. If they decide Ridley could make a good character they should have no problems changing his size as necessary.

 

[jokey665]

If I may repost...

That pic isn't showing up for me, unless all I'm supposed to see is:

Moby Games
The Definitive
resource
for PC Games
mobygames.com​

 

[Red Arremer]

That pic isn't showing up for me, unless all I'm supposed to see is:

Bleh. *fixes*

May I introduce: Metroid 1. To the right, we have Samus Aran. To the left, Ridley when he first appeared.

Edit: >_> ... curse me typing while in thought.

 

[jokey665]

Much better! And look, Ridley is barely larger than Samus at all!

 

[Mit]

The point is, they've shown they have no problem resizing character to suit their needs. If they decide Ridley could make a good character they should have no problems changing his size as necessary.

I'm considering the Bowser argument thrown out then.

I guess this would apply to your Olimar arguments still, but again, you can't say that Nintendo said "just resize them until it fits". They put more thought into their development than you guys do in your arguments.

They resize within reason. As I've said already, Bowser has plenty of appearances when he's closer to Mario's size, he isn't a problem, and Olimar has no other characters from the Pikmin universe for him to look out-of-place, or enlarged at all, really.

I'll restate this again: Putting in Ridley would be like putting in a tiny Beady-Long-Legs:

and then placing it right next to Olimar. It would look out of place, the same way a small Ridley would look out-of-place next to a normal-sized Samus.


And again, another point you didn't respond to: How would they resize Ridley without making him tiny? His wingspan is enormous, and the length from his nose to his tail is also enormous. There is just nothing about him that makes him of a size to blend in with the other Smash Bros characters. He'd either be as small as Olimar, or he'd take up half the length of arenas because of his tail, and his wings would cover a considerable amount of space.

It's never going to happen and I'm telling you the reasons that Sakurai probably thought himself.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'll keep on reposting this screenshot from Metroid until you recognize it, Mit.

 

[jokey665]

bad argument

10characters

 

[Mit]

Bleh. *fixes*

May I introduce: Metroid 1. To the right, we have Samus Aran. To the left, Ridley when he first appeared.

Edit: >_> ... curse me typing while in thought.

I swear these 'technicality' arguments are of the level of 4th graders. I know you guys are better than that.

There, that's Ridley in Zero Mission, a remake of Metroid 1. In Zero Mission and in Ridley's original NES artwork, he is huge. It's not Nintendo's fault they couldn't put giant enemies on such a low-res screen without making them take up the majority of the gameplay space.

 

[Thossos]

ridley'll never happen, he's right
all the boss characters couldn't work as playable characters, which is why they're bosses
Rayquaza COULD be sized down and reduced to a character... but... it'd be ridiculous
can you see that happening?
if you say 'yes' then something's wrong

 

[jokey665]

words and picture

The point is, at one time Ridley was similarly sized to Samus. It can happen again. It's not like they have to use the exact same model they used for Boss-Ridley just at a different size.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Mit. Fire up Melee. Look at the opening sequence.

In a super smash brothers game, Ridley is barely taller than Samus.

Now then, when you get an actual argument come back to us.

 

[Scinn]

modes: melee mode brawl mode and smash4 mode, board the platforms game from the 64.
newcomers:
krystal,robotnick,meta sonic, pt's rival gary or something,

ehh lemme add more later.

 

[Thossos]

from what you've shown, he was her size when he was first designed, and was later redesigned to be gigantic. you're just showing us the prototype that didn't stick

on the other hand, bowser randomly switches designs and has many times been close to the same size as mario. it works.

 

[jokey665]

Mit. Fire up Melee. Look at the opening sequence.

In a super smash brothers game, Ridley is barely taller than Samus.

Now then, when you get an actual argument come back to us.

Good call.

 

[Thossos]

(apparently the melee model didn't stay around either, also got updated. where's the problem?)

 

[Red Arremer]

I swear these 'technicality' arguments are of the level of 4th graders. I know you guys are better than that.

There, that's Ridley in Zero Mission, a remake of Metroid 1. In Zero Mission and in Ridley's original NES artwork, he is huge. It's not Nintendo's fault they couldn't put giant enemies on such a low-res screen without making them take up the majority of the gameplay space.

Donkey Kong Country:

Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

Alternatively:
Pokemon (anime, but it's the same size as in the game):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

 

[jokey665]

(apparently the melee model didn't stay around either, also got updated. where's the problem?)

Bowser switches sizes. Ridley switches sizes. Why can one be playable and not the other?

 

[Mit]

Mit. Fire up Melee. Look at the opening sequence.

In a super smash brothers game, Ridley is barely taller than Samus.

Now then, when you get an actual argument come back to us.

While that probably would be the most manageable size, the tail length and wingspan are still very large.

I'm hardly even trying to argue with you all, I'm telling you what Nintendo is most likely thinking, and why you're simple reasoning is not going to change it. Ridley is nigh-impossible to shrink down to a manageable size, and would look out of character according to what they want Ridley to look like.

Plus, the Melee opening was based all off the 2D generation. Since that opening, Metroid Prime 1-3 and both GBA Metroids were released, all of which depict him at a size much, much larger than Samus.

 

[jokey665]

Plus, the Melee opening was based all off the 2D generation. Since that opening, Metroid Prime 1-3 and both GBA Metroids were released, all of which depict him at a size much, much larger than Samus.

Proving that they have no problem resizing him.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Plus, the Melee opening was based all off the 2D generation. Since that opening, Metroid Prime 1-3 and both GBA Metroids were released, all of which depict him at a size much, much larger than Samus.

Samus' Brawl model is based off of her Super Metroid appearance. Chances are, so will Ridley's.

 

[Mit]

pictures of Donkey Kong and Charizard.

Are you trying to say they shrunk Diddy Kong or something? That's old artwork. Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong's Brawl sizes are fine and correlate to just about every other appearance they've made in gaming.

And Charizard looks the same in all the pictures you posted. I'm sure what you're getting at is that they shrunk him, which, if they did, was fine because he doesn't look out of place.

PLEASE TRY AND ARGUE MY POINTS. You aren't. You guys are throwing out a bunch of "NO U"s it feels like.

 

[Red Arremer]

Pokemon (anime, but it's the same size as in the game):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

I editted that pic in.

They sized up Pikachu, and sized down Charizard. The pics with Ash were there as a comparison to how big they actually should be in comparison to a human.

 

[Mit]

Samus' Brawl model is based off of her Super Metroid appearance. Chances are, so will Ridley's.

And this is their result. This is how they want to depict Ridley, and it is how they will continue to do so.

 

[jokey665]

Are you trying to say they shrunk Diddy Kong or something? That's old artwork. Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong's Brawl sizes are fine and correlate to just about every other appearance they've made in gaming.

And Charizard looks the same in all the pictures you posted. I'm sure what you're getting at is that they shrunk him, which, if they did, was fine because he doesn't look out of place.

PLEASE TRY AND ARGUE MY POINTS. You aren't. You guys are throwing out a bunch of "NO U"s it feels like.

So now you're dismissing evidence based on age? Having different sources show different sizes is exactly what happened to Bowser. As I've said before, it can happen to Ridley. Hell, they could take the model from melee, update it for better technology, and it would probably look fine.