[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[FatJackieChan]

Rights issues. Square Enix did not want their character in Brawl. After Sakurai had decided Geno was first party. Square Enix eventually found out that that their character was used without permission. Square Enix, offended by this gesture, denied business to Sakurai during negotiations. Thus, the all files on the character Geno were taken out and he was not able to be put in Brawl.

I have absolutely no proof to back this up. This is just a theory.

ChronoBound: Sukapon and Lip won the other category back in the Melee poll, yet both have not even been included as even trophies. Most of the posts that had Geno in it talked about other characters mostly. Geno is an obscure, unimportant side character.

Lip got an item, and Sukapon is a sticker. Although not much, they have some form of representation (not enough.) Unlike the Melee poll, Geno was #1, why would the pick 2-10 and leave out 1? And don't you dare give me the answer "because it is the loneliest number." Geno is obscure. Good, a new moveset. Geno is not an unimportant side character. If you had played the game, you would know that he is one of the four main characters (Mario, Bowser, Geno, Smithy). This game was important. It spawned the Mario RPG series. The only reason SMRPG has not continued is because it is also a Square series, and they could just as easily make a Mario RPG themself. Who knows? Maybe they will be Geno's rights and put him in some of the games. He is not, IS NOT, an unimportant side character.

 

[ChronoBound]

Rights issues. Square Enix did not want their character in Brawl. After Sakurai had decided Geno was first party. Square Enix eventually found out that that their character was used without permission. Square Enix, offended by this gesture, denied business to Sakurai during negotiations. Thus, the all files on the character Geno were taken out and he was not able to be put in Brawl.

I have absolutely no proof to back this up. This is just a theory.

Yeah, its just a theory. There is no proof to it. So don't prance around claiming Geno was planned when there is no evidence to prove that he was.

Let's put it this way. Sakurai was planning on having Dr. Mario come back over Geno. Should we all rally behind Dr. Mario since Sakurai was seriously considering on placing him in?

On a sidenote, Dr. Mario is actually important to Nintendo, unlike Geno.

 

[smashbot226]

Am I the only one who wants to not see Krystal NOR Geno in this game?

And to everyone with a Ganonsword in their list; NOT HAPPENING.

How about instead of adding Skull Kid/Vaati, we add Toon Ganon! THEN he'd have swords- oh wait, TWO swords! Nobody has that moveset nor the potential derived from it. Plus, he's from a very popular game in a very popular franchise.

And Jigglypuff will NEVER EVER leave Smash. Olimar might, but NOT Jigglypuff.

 

[ChronoBound]

Am I the only one who wants to not see Krystal NOR Geno in this game?

I don't want to see Krystsal or Geno playable. Krystal since she is an awful character and her series is already over-represented in Smash Bros., and Geno since he is a side-character who only had an important role in one game (as well as there being much more wortheir Mario characters that have yet to get in such as Paper Mario and Bowser Jr.). Heck, I would go as far to say as Dr. Mario and Toad would be more worthy additions than Geno.

 

[PanzerOceania]

wow the maturity in this thread is FANTASTIC.

anyways, arguing fan desire is highly subjective and there is no right answer, and I think it's pretty clear that the Smash Dev Team just didn't care enough to put Geno in this time around, they could have done it, they just decided not to, plain and simple. As I said we already have enough mario characters, I would just take an original character over a mario clone, someone with an interesting moveset, and frankly fawful seems like a pisspoor hand to hand fighter.

can we all just agree that Koopa Jr. would be the best bet, he's been in the last two main mario games and would have an interesting moveset, especially if he could transform into shadow mario.

We all have characters we don't like in smash games, but characters leaving is very unlikely.

I like suggesting UNIQUE characters that are interesting and fit the combat and art style of a smash game.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Yeah, its just a theory. There is no proof to it. So don't prance around claiming Geno was planned when there is no evidence to prove that he was.

Let's put it this way. Sakurai was planning on having Dr. Mario come back over Geno. Should we all rally behind Dr. Mario since Sakurai was seriously considering on placing him in?

On a sidenote, Dr. Mario is actually important to Nintendo, unlike Geno.

Sakurai was not planning on Dr. Mario over Geno, Dr. Mario was already in Melee. He wanted to bring him back. It is just a theory that Nintendo didn't want Geno in Brawl, it is just a theory that Paper Mario is an important Nintendo series. It is just a theory that the Universe goes on forever. It can not be proven, but it is a possible solution. Therefore, there is no evidence to prove that he wasn't planned.

 

[ChronoBound]

wow the maturity in this thread is FANTASTIC.

anyways, arguing fan desire is highly subjective and there is no right answer, and I think it's pretty clear that the Smash Dev Team just didn't care enough to put Geno in this time around, they could have done it, they just decided not to, plain and simple. As I said we already have enough mario characters, I would just take an original character over a mario clone, someone with an interesting moveset, and frankly fawful seems like a pisspoor hand to hand fighter.

can we all just agree that Koopa Jr. would be the best bet, he's been in the last two main mario games and would have an interesting moveset, especially if he could transform into shadow mario.

We all have characters we don't like in smash games, but characters leaving is very unlikely.

I like suggesting UNIQUE characters that are interesting and fit the combat and art style of a smash game.

Paper Mario would play nothing like regular Mario if you played any of the Paper Mario games. Also, Bowser Jr. has been in THREE main Mario titles (Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Galaxy).

 

[FatJackieChan]

Just pointing out that I like Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., and hell, even Fawful as characters. I am just stating that Geno is also a possible candidate, and that he may have been planned for Brawl. If he was planned for Brawl, his chances of being in Brawl rapidly increase. Otherewise, he is just some Mario OR third party character.

 

[Mythic02]

Why are we even arguing about geno. He' from a really old game so the only chance he'd have would be as retro(and even then there are older more deserving titles). When he was in the game a marshmallow was even more important than him.

Also Bowser jr. > Paper mario. Never put it past sakurai to make a clone. Really. Paper mario has 2 chances between Mario and MR. G&W. Bowser. jr. has only one chance with Bowser. Anyways, Bowser jr. is more relevant to Mario universe. YOu must admit either Paper mario is mario and he will be a clone, or he is a spin off. I'm gonna say spinoff. Even the characters in yoshi story and DK country have interacted more with mario and the gang.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Paper Mario is neither a spin off or clone. Paper Mario is its own series containing the same characters. There are many movesets that are different than Mario's, so that is just not true.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I love the Paper Mario games, but wouldn't want to play him in a smash bros game, sure he'd have his own moveset, but he's still MARIO.

Paper Mario would play nothing like regular Mario if you played any of the Paper Mario games. Also, Bowser Jr. has been in THREE main Mario titles (Super Mario Sunshine, New Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Galaxy).

I love New Super Mario Bros but I don't include it in the main mario games which is why I didn't mention it. SMB1-->2-->3-->World-->64-->Sunshine-->Galaxy.

but good point, he is just all around more likely (Koopa Jr.)

 

[FatJackieChan]

I love the Paper Mario games, but wouldn't want to play him in a smash bros game, sure he'd have his own moveset, but he's still MARIO.




I love New Super Mario Bros but I don't include it in the main mario games which is why I didn't mention it. SMB1-->2-->3-->World-->64-->Sunshine-->Galaxy.

but good point, he is just all around more likely (Koopa Jr.)

And Toon Link is still Link. I love Toon Link. In fact, I like him more than regular Link. Having two copies of a single character isn't a bad thing. Clones aren't even a bad thing. I personally think that at the same time, Paper Mario is Mario, but Paper Mario is also a completely different entity compared to Mario. Toon Link and Link are still similar, but not the same. Paper Mario and Mario are have a greater difference than Toon Link and Link in my opinion. As proven by Brawl, Paper Mario is still aloud even if he is Mario.

 

[PanzerOceania]

That's fair enough, I disagree, I would rather have two characters that are completely different than two that are based on the same thing, I'm also not a fan of melee clones. I don't mind luigified characters like luigi, wolf etc.

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh God, so many false information in this thread, it's awful... Okay, let's start out.

Oops, If forgot to add that Marth and Roy were really popular and were/are still in a live franchise. With the release od Shadow Dragon, FE will only get stronger over here.

First of all, this.
Marth and Roy were in Melee. Marth was meant to be cut from the American version, but Nintendo of America liked him so they kept him in.

I don't know this for sure, so one of the Pro Geno people correct me if I am wrong. But wasn't the music accessable? Weren't we able to play the music. I think that the file was intact, just not put to a stage, or unlockable.

No. I was the one to first rip the Brawl music ever, so I exactly know what's in there and what not. All cut music has been deleted without any possibility to bring it back. In the soundfile-list, there's shortcuts in Japanese, and one translates to "Mushroom Forest". As ChronoBound said, it can also be Partners in Time's "Toad Forest", as the title is "Kino[Japensewordforforest]", if I remember correctly. Toad's Japanese name is "Kinopio". So yea. It might be that one.
However, there is one funny guy who has made a fan project collecting music which he thought would be the correct ones and uploaded them onto his page (marking it with "fan project" and "Brawl: The Lost Tracks"). In the end, and as we all know, people on the internet are stupid, thought those originals and remixes (of which the majority is from OverClocked) to be the real thing and put in on YouTube. Sans the mess about the music.

Am I the only one who wants to not see Krystal NOR Geno in this game?

And to everyone with a Ganonsword in their list; NOT HAPPENING.

I don't want Krystal (overrepresentation of Star Fox and horrible character) and although I don't like Geno, he does have valid reasons to be included... I'm just too anti-Geno to remember them and their sources.
What I especially hate is the fact that people say "Krystal has her staff!". Well yes, she does. But so does Ephraim, the Lord of Fire Emblem 8 (just as an example). And unlike Krystal, if Ephraim were to be included (which he won't, just as said using him as an example), he would DEFINITELY use it. Krystal using her staff is NOT a given, if she would be included, there is NO guarantee that she would get the rod.

As for Ganondorf getting a new moveset, as I already said... Knowing Sakurai, he will keep Ganon with his current clone set, as he will think people would be sad if Ganon would play so extremely different to his 2 former appearances in the games.

can we all just agree that Koopa Jr. would be the best bet, he's been in the last two main mario games and would have an interesting moveset, especially if he could transform into shadow mario.

Although I disagree with the use of Shadow Mario (I just don't like him too much), I agree that Bowser/Koopa Jr. is the most likely new character for the Mario series.
He has been around in many games already, has become a major character in the spin-offs, too.

And Toon Link is still Link. I love Toon Link. In fact, I like him more than regular Link. Having two copies of a single character isn't a bad thing. Clones aren't even a bad thing. I personally think that at the same time, Paper Mario is Mario, but Paper Mario is also a completely different entity compared to Mario. Toon Link and Link are still similar, but not the same. Paper Mario and Mario are have a greater difference than Toon Link and Link in my opinion. As proven by Brawl, Paper Mario is still aloud even if he is Mario.

No. Toon Link and Link are different persons. Some high guy from the Zelda development team said that there are many Links (and technically Zeldas) throughout the series, that there is no real timeline going through the series. Sans Toon Link and Link being different.

The same could be applied to the Paper Mario series. Although they are using a similar setting and technically the same characters, the differences are too strong that they could be overlooked.

 

[FatJackieChan]

No. Toon Link and Link are different persons. Some high guy from the Zelda development team said that there are many Links (and technically Zeldas) throughout the series, that there is no real timeline going through the series. Sans Toon Link and Link being different.

The same could be applied to the Paper Mario series. Although they are using a similar setting and technically the same characters, the differences are too strong that they could be overlooked.

Thank you. That is what I was trying to get across. Technically the same characters, they are entirely different entities. Enough to be overlooked. Thank you for clarifying/correcting me. Wow, you know a lot about Smash!

 

[Scott!]

No. Toon Link and Link are different persons. Some high guy from the Zelda development team said that there are many Links (and technically Zeldas) throughout the series, that there is no real timeline going through the series. Sans Toon Link and Link being different.

The only thing wrong with this is that the main brains behind Zelda (Miyamoto and Aonuma) have stated that there is a timeline, and have clarified bits of it, including that it is split. The bit about there being many Links and Zeldas is true though.

 

[smashbot226]

can we all just agree that Koopa Jr. would be the best bet, he's been in the last two main mario games and would have an interesting moveset, especially if he could transform into shadow mario.

*AHEM* May I comment?

IMHO, Shadow Mario is a re-colored Mario clone with a re-colored Beam Sword with an "artsy" effect.

I suggest we sticky with the kid SOLELY.

And LEON PALOWSKI FOR SSB4.

 

[ChronoBound]

*AHEM* May I comment?

IMHO, Shadow Mario is a re-colored Mario clone with a re-colored Beam Sword with an "artsy" effect.

I suggest we sticky with the kid SOLELY.

And LEON PALOWSKI FOR SSB4.

Star Fox does not need four characters. Heck, it did not even need three characters. Fox, Falco, and Wolf is perfect for Smash 4.

 

[Red Arremer]

Star Fox does not need four characters. Heck, it did not even need three characters. Fox, Falco, and Wolf is perfect for Smash 4.

Not to mention his name is Leon Powalski.

Edit: Fixed the epic typo... =x

 

[flyinfilipino]

Star Fox does need four characters.

Quoted for truth.

 

[ChronoBound]

Quoted for truth.

An error in spelling. Star FOX DEFINITELY DOES NOT need four characters. It is right now the most over-represented series in Smash Bros. It is a series in decline, and the only character left that is not in that has a following is a horrible, ugly abomination (Krystal).

 

[flyinfilipino]

An error in spelling. Star FOX DEFINITELY DOES NOT need four characters. It is right now the most over-represented series in Smash Bros. It is a series in decline, and the only character left that is not in that has a following is a horrible, ugly abomination (Krystal).

Poor Leon just doesn't have a following.

 

[Red Arremer]

Poor Leon just doesn't have a following.

I'll correct him, then:
The only character left that is not in the game and has an extremely vocal and annoying following is a horrible, ugly abomination (Krystal).

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'll correct him, then:
The only character left that is not in the game and has an extremely vocal and annoying following is a horrible, ugly abomination (Krystal).

opinions opinions

Well, at least you and ChronoBound have an opinion on Krystal's looks; she's just a video game character. I really don't. As for any future Smash appearances for her, I'm really neutral on the subject. I mean, Brawl would've been the best time for her if any, so she missed that chance. Who knows when they'll put out the next Star Fox game or what kind of role Krystal will have if she's in it, so any other factors like that that might lead to a debut in Smash are pretty much up in the air. It's whatever *shrug*. Though I wonder why you guys wouldn't want to see her in Smash just to beat her up.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

opinions opinions ...Though I wonder why you guys wouldn't want to see her in Smash just to beat her up.

Because she won't be the sandbag in home-run contest.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Because she won't be the sandbag in home-run contest.

New suggestion: customizable Sandbags, recreated in the likeness of any playable character. Everyone's happy!

 

[PanzerOceania]

The truth is that there are TONS of Nintendo characters to be mined but also, that they are running out of super popular franchises. (as far as bringing new ones to brawl) I don't think it would be a shame to bring a balanced number of characters to the next game, that way even if star fox had 4 characters, so would most the other franchises (those that had reps, of course captain falcon is probably the only character we need from F-Zero)

 

[Red Arremer]

(those that had reps, of course captain falcon is probably the only character we need from F-Zero)

I just want to mention that F-Zero is very much comparable to Star Fox in many means. Both series started on the SNES, both series have similar sales, both series have the same amount of games, and both have a huge pool of characters with no personality to draw from.

 

[PanzerOceania]

Perhaps, but Starfox characters have gotten out of thier cockpit sfor gameplay in starfox 64, starfox adventures, and starfox assault. Like all characters a few moves were invented for smash but he has a lot of moves based off of his games like his blaster etc.

I played F-Zero but never even thought about Captain Falcon as a character like I did the starfox characters, I understand that's just a personal thing, it just seems like Captain Falcon had all his moves invented for smash, nothing he does reminds me of F-Zero, I see the inclusion of him as the same as if they put a character from Waverace in the next smash, I just never really understood it. He's a fun character to play but as far as bringing memories back of his game... it didn't work for me. In fact back on N64 we were like " who the hell is this?" and then we looked at his profile and said "OH that dude from F-Zero"

 

[Red Arremer]

Perhaps, but Starfox characters have gotten out of thier cockpit sfor gameplay in starfox 64, starfox adventures, and starfox assault. Like all characters a few moves were invented for smash but he has a lot of moves based off of his games like his blaster etc.

In Star Fox 64, that was in Multiplayer and they had rocket launchers. Fox kept his moveset since 64 with no real changes. The Fox Illusion isn't really from any game either.

I played F-Zero but never even thought about Captain Falcon as a character like I did the starfox characters, I understand that's just a personal thing, it just seems like Captain Falcon had all his moves invented for smash, nothing he does reminds me of F-Zero

That is, because in fact, all he does was invented for Smash and nothing he does he is doing in any F-Zero game.
But that can also be said for characters like Zelda, Sheik, ROB or Pit.

 

[PanzerOceania]

ugg, stupid browser, I double posted, see the edited version below.

 

[Red Arremer]

I mean I equate it to Zelda using the spells that were in zelda 64 instead of saying "Zelda SPELL!!" " Zelda TRANSFORM!!" " ZELDA SHIELD!!!"

LOL!! That is so awesome I dunno what it is. XD

 

[PanzerOceania]

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST, BROWSER MALFUNCTION.

Zelda uses spells from zelda 64 from the 3 goddesses, they feel and behave and do things that fit into their game, several of pit's moves are also from his game such as his shield, his bow, his wings, etc. You didn't see shiek much in zelda 64 but she always used that stealthy movement, I just wish there had been more effort for Falcon,

I like playing as him but it just feels kinda lame.

Imagine if Zelda's moveset consisted of "Zelda SPELL!!!!!" "Zelda TRANSFORM!!!!" "ZELDA TELEPORT!!!!" "ZELDA SHIELD!!!!"

it would be lame.

also if a waverace character made it into the smash game I'm sure everyone would say "WHAT THE ****" even if they were fun to play.

 

[Lord Viper]

The Fox Illusion isn't really from any game either.

☆ Come to think of it, the Star Fox characters look, (and dress) almost extremely diffrent from what I saw them in their last games and the game's before that, lol. ☆

 

[PanzerOceania]

☆ Come to think of it, the Star Fox characters look, (and dress) almost extremely diffrent from what I saw them in their last games and the game's before that, lol. ☆

his first two models were made directly off of the original starfox, his 3rd version was made off of starfox command. Look em up, he looks just like that, the reason they did this is it keeps his headgear which is his "retro" snes look. See samus too, she's always in her Varia Suit.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I was talking about what they look like in Star Fox, not in Smash Bros. XD ☆

 

[PanzerOceania]

oh, yeah, they change their look a lot, usually because of change of developer and system capabilities etc.

 

[Red Arremer]

oh, yeah, they change their look a lot, usually because of change of developer and system capabilities etc.

Which made me vomit over Star Fox Command... what did they do to Bill. =(

 

[PanzerOceania]

I also agree, starfox command's art was... not so great to say the least, Assault wasn't so bad, even though it was different and not done by Nintendo, I think I'll stick with the classic look though.

 

[Ochobobo]

They should add about five or six more pokemon in SSB4.

Maybe Ditto, whose only move is to transform into whoever's nearest him. Best character ever.

lol