[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ErrorCode23]

First off, hi. I've lurked here for a while, and this is my first post.

Rather than just list my roster, which would probably just be ignored anyway, I decided to throw together this:



I know 64 characters (technically 70 with transformations) is a lot, and 14 more than the general consensus of 50, but a guy can dream, right? Plus, 64 is the most iconic number in Nintendo's history, and it should be honored as such in a game that's all about Nintendo fanservice.

This roster is built of about 60% what I want in, and 40% want the popular vote wants in. My top picks are Cranky Kong, Ashley Robbins, Wolf Link, Simon Belmont and Skull Kid, but I've included popular picks like Ridley, Geno, Krystal and Nook for the sake of having a complete roster that more fans will like. Why should we argue about whether character X deserves a spot more than character Y, when we can just throw them both in and call it a day?

I've got arguments for most of the characters on the roster, but I'll just argue a few right now that I think will get some attention:

Leon Kennedy: I decided to give each third party two reps (save for Square, but that's only because I don't really count Geno as a 3rd party char, even if he is), and after Megaman, Capcom's next best selling franchise is Resident Evil. It seems only logical that that series should get a rep. So although Leon is far from the most important character in the series, nor my first pick for Smash (I'd prefer Jill), he is the most important Resi character with regards to Nintendo. He's the only character who has had all of his games on Nintendo, with RE 2 on the 64, RE Gaiden on the GBC, and RE 4 on the Cube and Wii, and RE 4 sold buckets more on GC and Wii than on PS2. So, Leon gets in. I imagine he'd play somewhat similar to Snake, but hopefully wouldn't be a complete clone.

Cranky Kong: The first two characters that come to mind for new Donkey Kong reps are Dixie Kong and King K. Rool. But Dixie Kong would play really similar to Diddy Kong, and the last thing we need is another clone. Cranky, on the other hand, would play very uniquely. I imagine he'd play something like Yoda from Lego Star Wars; old, slow and frail on the outside, but actually really strong and agile. Plus, he's the original DK (at least, according to RARE, and Otacon; the jury's still out on whether Nintendo feels this way) so some of his moves could be drawn from the 8-Bit games (hint: he needs to throw barrels).

Raving Rabbid: He'd be a great WTF character! The Rabbid games are some of the best selling games on Wii, and the only 3rd party party games worth playing. Plus, Ubisoft themselves have sorta given up on Rayman in favor of the Rabbids, so I think they'd be their first choice anyway. I can just image them running around, screaming "BWAAA!" everytime they go flying across the screen.

Sothe, instead of Ike or Micaiah: First off, I think Sothe would play differently than other FE reps (no sword) so that's a major plus. Micaiah would, too, but I'd take Lyn over her any day. If FE can only have three, than 2 of them should be guys. That probably comes off sexist, but I'm sure Nintendo would feel the same way. I realize Ike has a huge fanbase, too, and even though he plays differently than Marth, I still feel he's too similar to him. It's the asthetic stuff, they both have blue hair, they both have flowing capes, they both have the swords. I just don't like the feel of them both being there. Plus, I advocate Ganondorf getting his sword; we don't need two super heavy sword weilders. Heck, I'd prefer they just give Ganondorf Ike's old moveset over what he has now, even if it doesn't fit completely. Then give Black Shadow Ganondorf's old moveset. That solves the "Give Ganon a sword" dispute, without them having to build a new moveset from the ground up.

I have arguments for the other characters, too, so if there's someone you don't think should get in, let me hear it and I'll prove that you're wrong.

 

[justaway12]

Ike is much more important to the seris than Sothe considering he has benn the main character for both of the games Sothe was in even Micahah is more important (I still hate her though) so I doubt he would leave because of him.

Tails is more important to the Sonic franchise than Knuckles since he has been the second banana for aslong as he was there.

Since this is about all Nintendo characters I think it would be best giving 5 character to Mario, Zelda and Pokemon (excluding transformations) and a maximum of 4 to the rest since they are not as popular to save time and make the gameplay better and that's all I can think of for now.

This is just a bit of constructive criticism. ​

​

 

[SkylerOcon]

I know 64 characters (technically 70 with transformations) is a lot, and 14 more than the general consensus of 50, but a guy can dream, right? Plus, 64 is the most iconic number in Nintendo's history, and it should be honored as such in a game that's all about Nintendo fanservice.

It is completely ridiculous to think that Nintendo will add in over 30 characters with between one iteration of the game. It is completely ridiculous for that to happen with ANY fighting game. That is far, far to much to ask, unless you want the game to be the next Duke Nukem Forever (You don't want this).

This roster is built of about 60% what I want in, and 40% want the popular vote wants in. My top picks are Cranky Kong, Ashley Robbins, Wolf Link, Simon Belmont and Skull Kid, but I've included popular picks like Ridley, Geno, Krystal and Nook for the sake of having a complete roster that more fans will like. Why should we argue about whether character X deserves a spot more than character Y, when we can just throw them both in and call it a day?

Because, it's ridiculous to think that that many characters will get in, as I've said before. ALWAYS assume that SSB4 will have 50 characters. ALWAYS.

Leon Kennedy: I decided to give each third party two reps (save for Square, but that's only because I don't really count Geno as a 3rd party char, even if he is), and after Megaman, Capcom's next best selling franchise is Resident Evil. It seems only logical that that series should get a rep. So although Leon is far from the most important character in the series, nor my first pick for Smash (I'd prefer Jill), he is the most important Resi character with regards to Nintendo. He's the only character who has had all of his games on Nintendo, with RE 2 on the 64, RE Gaiden on the GBC, and RE 4 on the Cube and Wii, and RE 4 sold buckets more on GC and Wii than on PS2. So, Leon gets in. I imagine he'd play somewhat similar to Snake, but hopefully wouldn't be a complete clone.

Leon isn't getting in. Resident Evil just isn't important enough and it's been moved off of Nintendo consoles. Not to mention that CAPCOM is getting Megaman. And... that's it. They don't have enough reputable franchises to get another character.

Cranky Kong: The first two characters that come to mind for new Donkey Kong reps are Dixie Kong and King K. Rool. But Dixie Kong would play really similar to Diddy Kong, and the last thing we need is another clone. Cranky, on the other hand, would play very uniquely. I imagine he'd play something like Yoda from Lego Star Wars; old, slow and frail on the outside, but actually really strong and agile. Plus, he's the original DK (at least, according to RARE, and Otacon; the jury's still out on whether Nintendo feels this way) so some of his moves could be drawn from the 8-Bit games (hint: he needs to throw barrels).

He might play uniquely, but he isn't important enough. Donkey Kong is a three-character franchises - the only franchises that deserve four or more are Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon (due to ABSURDELY high sales).

Raving Rabbid: He'd be a great WTF character! The Rabbid games are some of the best selling games on Wii, and the only 3rd party party games worth playing. Plus, Ubisoft themselves have sorta given up on Rayman in favor of the Rabbids, so I think they'd be their first choice anyway. I can just image them running around, screaming "BWAAA!" everytime they go flying across the screen.

And the Rabbids are well-known/important enough to get into Smash Bros? No. Definately no. These aren't getting in -- I can assure you.

Sothe, instead of Ike or Micaiah: First off, I think Sothe would play differently than other FE reps (no sword) so that's a major plus. Micaiah would, too, but I'd take Lyn over her any day. If FE can only have three, than 2 of them should be guys. That probably comes off sexist, but I'm sure Nintendo would feel the same way. I realize Ike has a huge fanbase, too, and even though he plays differently than Marth, I still feel he's too similar to him. It's the asthetic stuff, they both have blue hair, they both have flowing capes, they both have the swords. I just don't like the feel of them both being there.[/QUOTE[

Ike isn't similar to Marth in the least. Especially not appearance wise! The only FE characters that are getting in are the lords. Let me explain this too you:

Marth - Most important lord, due to being the first. Also, DS remake.

Ike - Second most popular lord, due to being the first to make a major splash in the American market. FE fanboys also love him because of him being so a powerful character. And while it may seem weird -- first 3D lord. This is important.

New Lord - Whoever the newest FE lord is. If we don't have one by the time the next SSB starts development, then yes, Sothe is getting in. But we're probably getting a new lord by then.

Also...

Lyn? Really? She's not getting in. She would've been in Brawl if she's getting in at all.

Plus, I advocate Ganondorf getting his sword; we don't need two super heavy sword weilders. Heck, I'd prefer they just give Ganondorf Ike's old moveset over what he has now, even if it doesn't fit completely. Then give Black Shadow Ganondorf's old moveset. That solves the "Give Ganon a sword" dispute, without them having to build a new moveset from the ground up.

Hey, you used good logic for once! Good job!

Other mistakes:

- Waluigi: Only made an appearance in Mario sports games. And since Mario is probably only getting on more rep and it's two most likely reps are Paper Mario and Bowser Jr... Waluigi isn't getting in.

- Skull Kid/Vaati: I hate having to say this, but Tingle is unfortunately the most likely 5th Zelda Rep.

- Mewtwo: Sorry, Lucario and a 5th gen rep take HUGE priority over Mewtwo. First gen already has Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Pokemon Trainer. As awesome as Mewtwo is... he's just not getting in.

- Four Space furries: Really? Japan comes first when it comes to Smash and Star Fox REALLY is not important enough to have four characters. The only reason it got a third is because of how much Japan likes Wolf! Krystal isn't getting in, sorry.

- Nook: Sakurai has SAID IN AN INTERVIEW that he doesn't think Animal Crossing characters are suited for fighting. No Nook, kthxbye.

- Will, Ashely, Demille: I can safely say that none of these are NEAR important enough to get in. They're all second party (to my knowlege), and I haven't even HEARD of Will or Demille. Remove all three of them. They just aren't important enough.

- Sukapon: Just not important enough. Though I *think* Sakurai has said that Sukapon was considered for 64, so that statement pretty much rules her out if its true. Director considering a character and then cutting them pretty much means they aren't getting in (King Dedede and Meta-Knight were special cases, before you bring it up. Kirby is Nintendo's 5th biggest franchise, so three reps is ideal).

- Takamaru/Lip: I think it's pretty obvious by now what I'm going to say. They aren't important enough.

- ANY MISGUIDED IDEA THAT SONIC WILL GET A 2ND REP IN SSB4 EVER - NO. That's all I have to say. I have refuted this MANY, MANY times and if you've been lurking for 'a while' you should've seen this before.

- Travis: NMH is just that obscure little game with the cool lightsaber on the cover that most people see when they walk by. And that's not just a casual gamer opinion -- I know a number of core gamers who agree! Even though NMH1 and NMH2 are Wii exclusives, it doesn't make Travis Touchdown an important enough character. His game sales were subpar and he's not really an industry icon like other 3rd parties (Megaman, Sonic).

- Geno: You said earlier that you don't consider Geno a third party character, but Nintendo does! Just for having Geno give a tiny tutorial for a MINI GAME in one of the Mario and Luigi RPGs, Square got their names in the credits. Geno is out.

Overall, this was a pretty poor roster. To many fanboy wetdreams, and not enough realism. A 30 character increase from any game in the series to the next is a stupid request.

Taking out all the characters that I said should be cut: 44 roster slots.

Adding characters that should be added (New FE lord, Lucario, 5th gen pokemon, Tingle... ): 49 roster slots.

If you change all that, you have a deadly accurate roster!

Though this is the social groups current list: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6537749&postcount=14431

 

[ErrorCode23]

My my, I wasn't expecting people to tear into it that hard.

Regarding the number of characters: I KNOW 64 is too many, I acknowledged that. But it's not too much to think that the number is reasonable for a fifth entry in the series.

I added Waluigi, Vaati, Krystal, Ridley, Tom Nook and Geno because they're popular characters that I keep seeing people ask for again and again. Of any of them, I'd only ask for Vaati (cause I'm a Zelda fan) or Ridley (because Metroid needs another rep and I'm not familiar enough with the series to suggest someone else.)

Donkey Kong definitely deserves four characters. And Cranky Kong appeared in all the DKC games. The my knowledge, he was the only character who did, other than K. Rool. Plus, great WTF.

Regarding Sothe versus Ike: I dropped Ike because I want Ganon to have a sword. My argument of Ike being similar to Marth was a misguided attempt to create a stronger reason for him to go. As much as I'd love Sothe in, he's really a placeholder for the next Lord.

The same goes for Mewtwo; I know that him being in instead of Lucario would mean that all the PKMN reps would be first gen. Having only played the first gen games, I'm obviously biased towards Mewtwo, but I'd be willing to drop him for a fifth gen character.

Will is from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. He's more recent and fits Smash bros better than older AW characters, so I chose him over the others.

Demille is from an unknown game called Tomato Adventure. I don't know much about him, but have seen people suggest him in the past.

As for the third party characters: I want Megaman and Simon. The others were added because I thought more third party characters should make it in. Giving Konami two reps didn't make sense, neither did removing Snake. So I had to give Sega and Capcom two as well (to be fair.) Knuckles got in because I couldn't think of another Sega series deserving a rep, and he's a much much better chose than Shadow. Leon got in because I like Resident Evil, and he certainly meets the criteria to be a character. The argument that the RE series has left Nintendo would be a strong one, if not for Metal Gear doing the same thing. I know Snake was a favor, but still. Rabbid and Travis? After Konami, Sega and Capcom, I just assumed Ubisoft was the next third party, and both of those characters are recent Wii characters. Rabbid's had three games, Travis is getting a sequel.

As for Ashley Robbins: She's relatively unknown right now, but she's getting a sequel on the Wii, and that's sure to boost her popularity. She appeared as a trophy in Brawl, so that means Nintendo owns the rights, even if she is 2nd Party. She might not scream Smash Bros, but I loved Trace Memory, and think it stands a chance of being the next big thing. It just needs to get better advertising next time around.

 

[Mythic02]

@errorcode: WOW, that roster is awesome. I don't think Geno will get in because he is 3rd party. I would say 6 character per series because putting in too many is a bit crazy( no matter how fun it is). A bit too many 3rd parties. I hope you do realize it is a bit too many characters. And i think Kamek deserves the spot more than baby bros for a yoshi rep.

I have to say that your roster is amazing. The fact that it has more characters than necessary is ignored by the fact that you went through all the trouble to make the screen. It is way better than most other newcomers first posts.

And finally, welcome to smash boards.

 

[SkylerOcon]

My my, I wasn't expecting people to tear into it that hard.

Don't take it personally, I do it to everybody.

Regarding the number of characters: I KNOW 64 is too many, I acknowledged that. But it's not too much to think that the number is reasonable for a fifth entry in the series.

The thread is called Offical SSB4 Discussion Thread. Not SSB5.

I added Waluigi, Vaati, Krystal, Ridley, Tom Nook and Geno because they're popular characters that I keep seeing people ask for again and again. Of any of them, I'd only ask for Vaati (cause I'm a Zelda fan) or Ridley (because Metroid needs another rep and I'm not familiar enough with the series to suggest someone else.)

Then don't include them on your roster. It only makes YOU look stupid. And where did I say Ridley would be a bad addition? He's probably going to be one of the first announced for SSB4!

Donkey Kong definitely deserves four characters. And Cranky Kong appeared in all the DKC games. The my knowledge, he was the only character who did, other than K. Rool. Plus, great WTF.

Just now getting a second character doesn't make a fourth look likely. Would Cranky be cool? Yes. Is Cranky likely at all? No.

Regarding Sothe versus Ike: I dropped Ike because I want Ganon to have a sword. My argument of Ike being similar to Marth was a misguided attempt to create a stronger reason for him to go. As much as I'd love Sothe in, he's really a placeholder for the next Lord.

Ganon will get a sword regardless of Ike. The original sword user, Link, didn't stop Marth and Roy from getting in. Ike isn't going to stop Ganon from getting his sword.

The same goes for Mewtwo; I know that him being in instead of Lucario would mean that all the PKMN reps would be first gen. Having only played the first gen games, I'm obviously biased towards Mewtwo, but I'd be willing to drop him for a fifth gen character.

Alright. Take him off of your roster then.

First gen is the best though. And Mewtwo pwns Lucario and whatever drivel Nintendo will be throwing at us for Fourth gen.

Will is from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. He's more recent and fits Smash bros better than older AW characters, so I chose him over the others.

Ah! That's okay then. I haven't played Days of Ruin yet, so I didn't know who he is. Keep him. My mistake.

Demille is from an unknown game called Tomato Adventure. I don't know much about him, but have seen people suggest him in the past.

And this is a reason to include him on your roster...?

As for the third party characters: I want Megaman and Simon. The others were added because I thought more third party characters should make it in.

I agree with this.

Giving Konami two reps didn't make sense, neither did removing Snake. So I had to give Sega and Capcom two as well (to be fair.)

To be what? Konami is getting two reps because it deserves it. Though Snake was definately a strange choice and only got in because Sakurai and Kojima are good friends, Belmont is in because Castlevania has a long history with Nintendo and is a popular and well-respected franchise in the industry.

Knuckles got in because I couldn't think of another Sega series deserving a rep, and he's a much much better chose than Shadow.

That's the thing -- Sega doesn't deserve another rep.

Leon got in because I like Resident Evil, and he certainly meets the criteria to be a character. The argument that the RE series has left Nintendo would be a strong one, if not for Metal Gear doing the same thing. I know Snake was a favor, but still.

Snake only got in because Kojima directly approached Sakurai and requested him to be in. Snake was even planned for Melee! I'm sure Sakurai also won't allow Leon to be in just becuase... well, it's Resident Evil. MGS has always been one of the greatest video game franchises of all time and would make nearly every list. The other 3rd party franchises would be things like Castlevania and Sonic. Resident Evil is a good series -- just not good enough.

Rabbid and Travis? After Konami, Sega and Capcom, I just assumed Ubisoft was the next third party, and both of those characters are recent Wii characters. Rabbid's had three games, Travis is getting a sequel.

Ubish it isn't the next third party. Square-Enix is. Travis is cool, but not popular enough. Rabbid's are cool, but their games aren't respected enough.

As for Ashley Robbins: She's relatively unknown right now, but she's getting a sequel on the Wii, and that's sure to boost her popularity. She appeared as a trophy in Brawl, so that means Nintendo owns the rights, even if she is 2nd Party. She might not scream Smash Bros, but I loved Trace Memory, and think it stands a chance of being the next big thing. It just needs to get better advertising next time around.

I know that Another Code R is coming out, but Ashley Robins isn't getting in. I assure you, even if the series does obtain mega popularity, Sakurai is going to say the same thing said for Animal Crossing characters: She just isn't a fighter.

 

[Red Arremer]

- Sukapon: Just not important enough. Though I *think* Sakurai has said that Sukapon was considered for 64, so that statement pretty much rules her out if its true. Director considering a character and then cutting them pretty much means they aren't getting in (King Dedede and Meta-Knight were special cases, before you bring it up. Kirby is Nintendo's 5th biggest franchise, so three reps is ideal).

- Takamaru/Lip: I think it's pretty obvious by now what I'm going to say. They aren't important enough.

Sukapon, first of all, is male.
Then, about "importance"... ROB, Ice Climbers and Pit say hi. Although I doubt Takamaru's inclusion, he might be chosen, and so does Lip (representing the Puzzle games).

As for Sukapon, again:
Sukapon is a character who could nicely fit into the Smash roster, representing Nintendo’s first and only “real” Beat’em’Up game, and having a lot of moveset potential due to him already having a moveset in Joy Mech Fight. Just like Lip, the fact he’s only been in a Japanese game which, on top of that, has been released so long ago makes him a very unlikely and unknown choice.

Nevertheless, Sukapon was planned at some point for Melee (actually, that’s not totally clear. It could have been the first Smash, as well), but the team didn’t go through with it. Sakurai tells two fans that they probably shouldn’t expect to see Sukapon in the future. In an earlier comment, he said it was “doubtful” that the game would make it overseas.

Considering that Melee did make it overseas and Marth was supposed to be removed from the American version because he was Japan-only, these notes from Sakurai are to take with a grain of salt, making Sukapon a possible addition for SSB4 - as he has been planned for Melee already.

Blog postings of Sakurai regarding Sukapon:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/so…return510.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/so…return578.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/so…Return137.html

@errorcode
Several additions I like, several I dislike.
I doubt Twilight Princess will be mentioned that much anymore in SSB4. Wolf Link and Midna were probably one-shots, I doubt they will return.

If Capcom were to get 2 3rd Party-slots, they would most likely choose Ryu from Street Fighter to be in Smash, not one of the Resident Evil protagonists.

About Fire Emblem I have to chip in, too... I hate people always asking for Lyn. She's not that important, only appeared in one game and only was included as AT. If she was to be an actual character, she already would be one. Her time is over. Ike won't be cut either. As SkylerOcon already said, he's the Lord of the first extremely successful FE game, and the Lord of the first 3D one. Sothe would never replace him. And just because Ike carries a sword and is from the same franchise as Marth doesn't make them very similar. That'd be like saying Meta Knight and Kirby are similar because they have a round shape and are from the same franchise.

If Sega were to get a second character, I'd say it'd be either Tails or NiGHTS.

Pokemon were to get at least 6 characters themselves before Zelda got 6, considering how Pokemon is the second strongest franchise after Mario (remember 64 where Mario and Pokemon had 2 characters each). Pokemon also has far more to draw from than first generation - Lucario is probably going to stay or being replaced by a 5th Generation Pokemon. Mewtwo perhaps can get in.

No to Krystal (we have enough Star Fox characters), no to Cranky (Dixie would be in before her), no to Baby Mario Bros. and Waluigi, no to Skull Kid and Vaati (if, then only Toon Zelda/Tetra and Tingle would have a real chance), no to Travis and Rabbid (they're FAR too wide out there).
Demille seems pretty random, tbh.

The rest I can live with and like, and I especially love the Ditto icon for Random.

Ganon will get a sword regardless of Ike. The original sword user, Link, didn't stop Marth and Roy from getting in. Ike isn't going to stop Ganon from getting his sword.

Why is everyone saying Ganondorf WILL get a sword? Nothing's for sure about that. Knowing Sakurai, he will think similar to this: "Ganondorf has had the Falcon clone moveset in 2 games already. If I replaced his moveset with a new one, fans would be sad that he has been changed so drastically."
That's what I think will happen. Maybe minor changes, but I really doubt that Ganondorf will - now, that he has had the chance - decloned much more. He might get Luigi level of uncloning, but not more.

As much as I'd love to see Ganon using a sword, I doubt it'll happen now.

 

[Arw1ng]

Ok, I really don't see Sakurai keeping PT. I know he's unique and all, but as cool as he is he'll probably be replaced with a 5th gen Poke. I would only asume this because 1st gen is just little overrepped.

PLUSLE AND MINUN PLZ

 

[Starphoenix]

................

 

[Scott!]

PT being dropped is highly unlikely. He's popular, and is perhaps the most faithful representative of the Pokemon series. He is the playable character. Yes, 1st gen is overrepped, but that didn't stop him from getting into Brawl.

It's possible that he might be changed to a later gen's trainer, but even that is probably unlikely. I do support different costumes being different trainers, or at least having a female one, working like Wario's two costumes. He has three of the most popular Pokemon in tow (ok, Ivy's not that popular, persay, but it's part of the third starter line). There will be a 5th gen rep in addition to what we have, but no tat PT's expense. If anyone is dropped, it would be Lucario.

Also, preemptively, never say Jigglypuff will be dropped. Jigglypuff is amazing. not that you're going to suggest that, but just in case.

 

[Spire]

ErrorCode, that roster was beautifully made. Absolutely beautiful. The character choices, however, are a bit.. [hate to say this] wrong. I commend you incredibly on the craft of the roster though. I too am a roster artist, so I find quite a bit of inspiration in yours. Might I ask where you found the Lip render?

 

[FatJackieChan]

Regarding the Story...

I think that rather have a story like the SSE (platformy Kirby ripoff), they should focus on the fighting aspects of Smash in the story. There were few actual fights and few conflicts that we actually got TO PLAY! I think that regardless of the story, it should focus more on fighting other characters.

 

[DekuBoy]

If you have so many characters in your roster why did you drop Ike and Lucario?

 

[justaway12]

If you have so many characters in your roster why did you drop Ike and Lucario?

He replaced Ike with Sothe because Sothe won't have a sword and because he wants Ganondorf to have a sword aswell I think.

Lucario becuase he likes Mewtwo better.

It's explained in the conversation. ​

 

[FatJackieChan]

If you have so many characters in your roster why did you drop Ike and Lucario?

I will start with Ike. When Melee came out, we had two Fire Emblem characters, Marth (FE 1) and Roy (FE 6). Fire Emblem 6 had been recently released in Japan; so Roy was the natural choice. By Brawl, FE 9 had been released both here and Japan. FE 10 was announced with Ike as a character. He was the current main character just as Roy was, and that made him perfect for Brawl. Now that FE 10 and Brawl are out, the new main character is Sothe. Sothe in that regard would be the newer smasher. Lyn is there because not only is FE 7 one of the best Fire Emblems, she, Hector, and Eliwood are the Lords. Eliwood (Roy's Father) would be a complete copy of Roy. Hector is my favorite, although of the three his is the least important (although I think that that made him more awesome). Lyn is the perfect choice. Why have Ike when he is not current? Sothe takes his place with an original moveset (knife based if I am not mistaken).

Lucario his the current 4th generation representative. Pichu was the second generation, and the third was skipped over. Now the fourth generation would have passed, and he/she didn't want an unknown character on the roster. This may be adjusted once we actually learn about the fifth generation.

There really isn't nearly as much to say about Pokemon as there was Fire Emblem. Well, that's my reasoning behind it anyway.

 

[justaway12]

Sothe isn't exactly CURRENT either and in the all the games Sothe starred in Ike was more important and honestly unless there is a new game with Sothe as an FE lord which is HIGHLY unlikely I doubt he would he would get in even Micihah has a better chance (unfortunatly ).

Lyn is still not current and if she wasn't in brawl for her amazing game why would she be in 4?

​

 

[Scott!]

Lyn does have her AT status on her side though. Whether that's enough of a boost, I don't know. I don't know enough about Fire Emblem to know. But she was at least thought about, and determined to fit better as an AT, it would seem.

 

[Red Arremer]

Lyn does have her AT status on her side though. Whether that's enough of a boost, I don't know. I don't know enough about Fire Emblem to know. But she was at least thought about, and determined to fit better as an AT, it would seem.

As I already mentioned: If Lyn were to be included into Smash as playable character, the chance would have been with Brawl. She is in, but as an AT. Not playable. Lyn's time is over. Her game is long time ago, and her arc has passed.

@FatJackieChan:
Sothe is in the same games as Ike, isn't he? Ike was far more important there. FE10 is basically a remake of FE1. So Marth is the main character in it. Not Sothe.

Also, saying that FE7 is (one of) the best is imo a bit of a bad reasoning for including a character. I personally was disappointed with FE7, I didn't like it at all. The quality of a game lies absolutely at the players' tastes and opinions. Just saying...

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

I will start with Ike. When Melee came out, we had two Fire Emblem characters, Marth (FE 1) and Roy (FE 6). Fire Emblem 6 had been recently released in Japan; so Roy was the natural choice. By Brawl, FE 9 had been released both here and Japan. FE 10 was announced with Ike as a character. He was the current main character just as Roy was, and that made him perfect for Brawl. Now that FE 10 and Brawl are out, the new main character is Sothe. Sothe in that regard would be the newer smasher. Lyn is there because not only is FE 7 one of the best Fire Emblems, she, Hector, and Eliwood are the Lords. Eliwood (Roy's Father) would be a complete copy of Roy. Hector is my favorite, although of the three his is the least important (although I think that that made him more awesome). Lyn is the perfect choice. Why have Ike when he is not current? Sothe takes his place with an original moveset (knife based if I am not mistaken).

Lucario his the current 4th generation representative. Pichu was the second generation, and the third was skipped over. Now the fourth generation would have passed, and he/she didn't want an unknown character on the roster. This may be adjusted once we actually learn about the fifth generation.

There really isn't nearly as much to say about Pokemon as there was Fire Emblem. Well, that's my reasoning behind it anyway.

I just wanted point out that Sothe has never been the main character of any games, Micaiah, and later Ike (kind of), are the main characters in FE10. So if Ike were to be axed, she would be the most likely runner up from that game. But, keep in mind, it's doubtful they will continue with the Tellius universe after this (after all, they just defeated a god, so how do you top that?), so if a new game is released between now and then, you should probably expect whoever is the main character from that game to show up instead.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll say, that is a nice background, and I like them to rehave the character poses when you pick them like they had on SSB64, (I assume that's what the bottom screen is for. I won't complan about the character selection because as long as the game shines, (even though I support you or somone for putting Lip there XD). But yea, War sounds more epic than Battle Royal, or Free For All, umm... Super Smash Bros War? ☆

 

[PanzerOceania]

There are lots of characters that I would like to see that other people have said first and that tons of people agree on, so I won't add a lot to this discussion by talking about them.

About a year ago I suggested these characters but it wasn't in this thread so I'll put it here again.

THE STUNT RACERS

(the cars from Stunt Race FX / Wild Trax for the Super Nintendo / Super Famicom)

Primarily F-Type as he is kind of the main character and looks most like a fighter, but they could switch out like pokemon trainer. There are 4 in total (not including the 16 wheeler which transports them) they could all have similar movesets only maybe having a different neutral B move but have everything else be the same except one be stronger, one faster, etc.

here is an artist's interpretation

obviously because they are from a racing game they are gonna be fast. They are also cars so the ones that aren't as fast (like 4WD) will be super heavy. They are very cartoony, but also have a look that would fit in a Smash Bros game well

They can punch and kick with their free moving tires that aren't connected to their body. When they jump their wheels would stay on the ground (like in the original game) until they double jumped and then their wheels would jump up and reattach to their bodies. Their bodies and how their wheels aren't directly connected to them fit very well in Smash Bros.

For a Grabbing move they could grab the character, reer up on their hind wheels and run the person over.

The sky really is the limit with these characters. I would love to see people who are skilled at making full move sets to experiment with these characters and also any artists who want to take a stab at it.

If no one else is interested that's fine, I'm not trying to ask anyone to do anything for me, just sharing an idea for an awesome character and trying to get them to be better known by everyone if they have fans vote again for the next game.

they also appeared as stickers in brawl so who knows, it could happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKMKvnTDaDQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwoRxNV6ad8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svhZ38H3NVo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunt_Race_FX

 

[smashbot226]

I just want my Shy Guy as a Yoshi rep. Then I'm happy no matter WHO else gets in.

Except if its Hitler.

 

[Big-Cat]

I posted this in the SSB4 Group and I'm posting it here with some extrastuff to see what you guys think.

I was playing Street Fighter IV Thursday and Friday (love it) and I've been thinking. Maybe a super meter may not be a such a bad idea. Unlike SF4's, there wouldn't be a super move when the meter's full. Rather, like SF4, the meter allows you to do super versions of special moves. For example, a super version of Mario's Fireball would be three fireballs coming out, all with the same strength as a regular fireball.

This could make matches more interesting and it allows a super meter without including a final smash so it's tourney friendly.

In order to execute the super specials, you have to press the A and B buttons at the same time and you have to sput the control stick in the direction you want.

Here are some more examples of super specials:

Samus' Missle
An Ice missle is fired and can freeze the opponent.

Link's Bomb
Shoots a Bomb Arrow

Bowser's Up B (I forget the name)
Creates a fire tornado around himself.

Falco's Laser
Shoots four lasers with two guns (Think Sylvia from VJ)

IT'S SUPER DYNAMIC COOKING TIME!!!

 

[Sessº]

i dont care if this has been posted over 9000 times. I WANT MY GENO IN. f-u-c-k square-enix for having rights to geno. he deserves to be a nintendo icon

 

[ChronoBound]

i dont care if this has been posted over 9000 times. I WANT MY GENO IN. f-u-c-k square-enix for having rights to geno. he deserves to be a nintendo icon

Thanks for the censor bypass. Also, Geno was only a supporting character in one game (and made a small cameo in another). There are several Mario characters that are more deserving and iconic than Geno. Heck, from just Mario RPGs alone, Paper Mario and Fawful are more worthy. Fawful was a major antagonist in the first Mario & Luigi, a shopkeeper in PiT, and is the main antagonist of Mario & Luigi 3. As for Paper Mario, he the main protagonist of the entire Paper Mario series, and has a slew of unique abilities. Really, Geno would only represent one game of the Mario RPG line, whereas Paper Mario or Fawful would represent three.

 

[PanzerOceania]

Thanks for the censor bypass. Also, Geno was only a supporting character in one game (and made a small cameo in another). There are several Mario characters that are more deserving and iconic than Geno. Heck, from just Mario RPGs alone, Paper Mario and Fawful are more worthy. Fawful was a major antagonist in the first Mario & Luigi, a shopkeeper in PiT, and is the main antagonist of Mario & Luigi 3. As for Paper Mario, he the main protagonist of the entire Paper Mario series, and has a slew of unique abilities. Really, Geno would only represent one game of the Mario RPG line, whereas Paper Mario or Fawful would represent three.

heh, c'mon man, you know if it came to a vote Geno would trump paper mario and fawful, let's be realistic here. The question is if they will make another game, and if they will put him in it.

there was a SMRPG song planned for brawl and weren' t there some SMRPG stickers? If they can get that content I don't think it'd be hard to get the rights to put him in.

To be honest I don't think it was a permission issue, Sakurai just opted to do other characters that were better known, but as far as the fan base of smash that actually vote for characters and such, Geno is hugely popular.

 

[Mythic02]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Smash doesn't need power meters. It supposed to be easy to pick up and play and meters that are filled by making combos aren't the intentions of what it is made for. If it is filled up by being ahead of you're opponent then you really don't need to have a final smash. That is why there are pity final smashes. If tourney's feel like wasting a huge part of the game then they can go ahead and turn off Final smashes and all the other items. Sure some items aren't fair but people usually have the same chance to get an item.

Oh, and for geno he doesn't deserve a 3rd party slot since he only had a few games, and their are better representatives for mario IF he is counted as a 1st party.

@Panzer oceania: Getiing an entire character is not as easy as getting a song.

 

[quadz08]

Ummm wow. I just have to say, the appearance of this roster is absolutely stunning. Excellent job there.

I will go through my problems/comments with this roster in order that they are on the roster.

Please correct me if anything I say is incorrect; I will admit to being much less learned than a large number of people on this forum.

Skull Kid: Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand why Skull Kid is such a big deal. He made a brief appearance in Ocarina of Time, and was of course a large part in Majora's Mask. Other than that, I am not aware of any other appearance; why is he particularly deserving of a spot?

Baby Mario Bros.: This is a cool idea, but I'm not terribly sure they're deserving of a slot...

Waluigi: He's one of my favorite characters in the Mario roster; sadly, he's DEFINITELY not deserving of a slot. Having only been a part in sports and racing games, he is no more than a filler character in the Nintendo roster.

Ridley: I know I'm going to get ripped apart for this, but I simply do not want Ridley in Smash. I don't think he'd make a good character. A better Metroid rep, in my opinion, would be the other Hunters. Perhaps utilize a PT-type mechanism for them.

Mewtwo: I so wish he could be brought back, but the point made earlier about the over-representation of 1st gen definitely stands in the way. He won't be, sadly. However, I do think Pokemon deserves at least as many reps as Legend of Zelda (6, in your roster; 5, in most others).

Krystal: I'm a huge fan. I know the reasons against her being in, and I don't care. She would be epic; and besides, a staff-user would be an excellent new moveset.

Cranky Kong: This is an interesting concept, one that I've never seen before. I myself am a fan of Funky Kong, or even Lanky Kong (from DK 64). However, Cranky probably makes more sense in terms of how often he appears in games.

Nook: Animal Crossing=NO.

Ray 01: Yes. Absolutely yes.

Black Shadow: I'm worried that he would become a clone too easily. I am a fan of Samurai Goroh, myself. His playstyle would be similar to Mitsurugi of Soul Calibur.

Knuckles: Ummmm...... Nope. I think Tails is a much better choice. Plus, he's much less likely to be a clone, what with the flying and all.

Megaman: Pleeeeeease let you be right here. Pleeeeeease.

Travis: Well, this would be interesting. Really cool idea, but the fact that he's a new, relatively unpopular character and the fact that he is a sword user (laser sword or not) definitely hurts his chances quite a bit.

Rabbid: This is my favorite character on the entire roster. I don't care how unlikely it is; I don't want to hear your so-called "logic." This would be so incredibly EPIC it doesn't matter. If the moveset that Nintendo created could really pull it off, then I think that the Rabbid is an amazing idea.

Characters who I don't know/don't know hardly anything about on this roster are:
Vaati, Demille, Lynne, Sothe, Sukapon, Saki, Takamaru, and Lip.

Also, Ditto for Random is pretty awesome too.

Please correct me on anything I said if I'm being clueless, which wouldn't surprise me.

And, finally,

Rabbids are for the win.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Smash doesn't need power meters. It supposed to be easy to pick up and play and meters that are filled by making combos aren't the intentions of what it is made for. If it is filled up by being ahead of you're opponent then you really don't need to have a final smash. That is why there are pity final smashes. If tourney's feel like wasting a huge part of the game then they can go ahead and turn off Final smashes and all the other items. Sure some items aren't fair but people usually have the same chance to get an item.

Oh, and for geno he doesn't deserve a 3rd party slot since he only had a few games, and their are better representatives for mario IF he is counted as a 1st party.

@Panzer oceania: Getiing an entire character is not as easy as getting a song.

I agree that smash doesn't need power meters.

You are right but there is no reason square-enix wouldn't make a quick buck on geno, he's useless to them now for any other practical purpose.

he's 3rd party owned but I don't think he'd count as a third party slot as he's only been in a mario game. I don't see any reason why they would limit characters from 1st party franchises.

 

[Lord Viper]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Smash doesn't need power meters. It supposed to be easy to pick up and play and meters that are filled by making combos aren't the intentions of what it is made for. If it is filled up by being ahead of you're opponent then you really don't need to have a final smash. That is why there are pity final smashes. If tourney's feel like wasting a huge part of the game then they can go ahead and turn off Final smashes and all the other items. Sure some items aren't fair but people usually have the same chance to get an item.

☆ Well, it doesn't need it, but it would be better if they did. You know how competive Smash would be if they had Smash Meters instead of *get the Smash Ball to pown hard because of random chance*. Also, if you could have the option to turn it off, and have the option of doing more than one Final Smash with Smash meters. But what can I do to convince you that it's a good idea to have Smash Meaters? ☆

 

[ChronoBound]

heh, c'mon man, you know if it came to a vote Geno would trump paper mario and fawful, let's be realistic here. The question is if they will make another game, and if they will put him in it.

there was a SMRPG song planned for brawl and weren' t there some SMRPG stickers? If they can get that content I don't think it'd be hard to get the rights to put him in.

To be honest I don't think it was a permission issue, Sakurai just opted to do other characters that were better known, but as far as the fan base of smash that actually vote for characters and such, Geno is hugely popular.

No, Geno wouldn't. Only on SmashBoards Geno would win. Paper Mario and Faful are far more important and well-known characters to the Mario RPG series than Geno. Geno is a side-character who has not had an important role in a game since 1996.

 

[PanzerOceania]

you do realize that ROB and Pit made it into brawl right...

This game has newcomers but is primarily about classic franchises. I will say though that while I love Geno, there are already so many Mario characters in the game. I've just started working on a roster that uses a rule of 4 characters per franchise, I keep the roster from Brawl and suppliment it.

Mario

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Koopa

Mario Other

Yoshi
Wario
Kamek
Koopa Jr. / Shadow Mario

Donkey Kong

DK
Diddy
Dixie
K. Rool

Kirby

Kirby
Meta Knight
DeDeDe
DynaBlade

Zelda

Link
Zelda/Sheif
Ganondorf (with sword)
Toon Link

Pokemon

Trainer(squirtle,ivysaur,charzard)
Pikachu
Jiggly Puff
Lucario

Metroid

Samus/ZSS
Chozo Warrior
Space Pirate
Alpha Metroid

Star Fox

Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

Retro
Ice Climbers
Pit
Robot
Game & Watch

Fire Emblem

Marth
Ike
Leaf
Lyn

Mother

Lucas
Ness
Flint
Masked Man

3rd Party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Simon Belmont

Misc.
Captain Falcon
Olimar
F-Type
Sukapon

 

[ChronoBound]

you do realize that ROB and Pit made it into brawl right...

This game has newcomers but is primarily about classic franchises.

Geno is not classic, nor is he the hero of his game.

 

[Mythic02]

@Viper: I've played games with meters. They are fun. But they aren't smash for a reason. Smash is supposed to be different than any other fighting game. You don't have thousands of buttons you have to press to get a certain uber move. YOu don't just attack you're opponent until they are out of h ealth. The last thing in smash is that it doesn't have meters. When it comes down to everything the thing smash is based off of is luck. Since Final smashes are an item it means it goes to anyone. Meters typically go to whoever is in first or doing well. Why does someone winning need an uber move to level the playing field. Or you could give it to the loser. What about the person barely keeping ahead. And you have to hit the ball many times to get it. Everyone has a chance to get it.

 

[Big-Cat]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Smash doesn't need power meters. It supposed to be easy to pick up and play and meters that are filled by making combos aren't the intentions of what it is made for. If it is filled up by being ahead of you're opponent then you really don't need to have a final smash. That is why there are pity final smashes. If tourney's feel like wasting a huge part of the game then they can go ahead and turn off Final smashes and all the other items. Sure some items aren't fair but people usually have the same chance to get an item.

If you've played Street Fighter IV, the meter system doesn't involve making combos. It involves inflicting damage on the opponent. Also, read again what I said earlier, the meters not for performing final smashes. Rather, a quarter of the meter is used for performing super versions of select special moves (meaning not all Bmoves will have super versions).

If aything can come out of using the meter system, it will make the gaming scene much more focused on the offensive and the defensive. Also, this makes matches require more strategy.

As for what Crimson Viper said, maybe it would not be a bad idea to turn off the meter at choice.

 

[SkylerOcon]

heh, c'mon man, you know if it came to a vote Geno would trump paper mario and fawful, let's be realistic here. The question is if they will make another game, and if they will put him in it.

I'm actually pretty sure that everybody who doesn't waste their life on the internet (See: vast majority of people) want in Paper Mario and Bower Jr. over... wait, whose Geno again? Oh yeah, most people DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS.

there was a SMRPG song planned for brawl and weren' t there some SMRPG stickers? If they can get that content I don't think it'd be hard to get the rights to put him in.

All the SMRPG stickers were of characters owned by Nintendo, I believe. All the music is owned by Nintendo as well.

To be honest I don't think it was a permission issue, Sakurai just opted to do other characters that were better known, but as far as the fan base of smash that actually vote for characters and such, Geno is hugely popular.

Geno isn't popular. He just has a vocal fanbase. Chrono is a far better rep for Square-Enix due to being the main characer in what is considered one of -- if not THE -- best RPGs of all time. Not to mention a remake of Crono Trigger recently came out on the DS, boosting his popularity.

@Quadz08:

And my brother! I thought we were related all this time, and now you do this!

You make a lot of logical statements (Mewtwo (but Pokemon already has 6 characters on their roster...), Waluigi, Travis) and then say stupid things (Krystal, Ridley).

Hit me up on AIM, my man. I must enlighten you in the ways of SSB4.

 

[FatJackieChan]

No, Geno wouldn't. Only on SmashBoards Geno would win. Paper Mario and Faful are far more important and well-known characters to the Mario RPG series than Geno. Geno is a side-character who has not had an important role in a game since 1996.

Think about it. Smashboards is a huge part of the Smash community that actually gives a crap. Before Brawl came out, I got a petition that we sent to Japan. We got signatures from a whole bunch of sites, not just here. GameFAQs supports Geno quite a bit. The Mario RPG series isn't just one series. It is 2 series and 1 game. Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, and Super Mario RPG. Sakurai had a character poll for characters that the fans wanted in Brawl. The top ten made it into Brawl, save the number 1 choice on the entire list, and that was Geno. I like Fawful and Paper Mario a lot, but Geno may have already been planned for this game (look it up) and those two were not. Sakurai also wrote about Geno in his blog. He said that he considered him first party, and that must have some meaning if he bothered to look it up. He may have been a side character (even though he is really important to the plot. Star Road!), but his community is part of our community too. GO GENO!

 

[SkylerOcon]

Think about it. Smashboards

Stopped reading there.

The interent doesn't matter. If the internet mattered, we would still have hitstun and L-Cancel. Geno REALLY doesn't matter, and Sakurai is thankfully smart enough to realize that.

 

[Bowser King]

Stopped reading there.

The interent doesn't matter. If the internet mattered, we would still have hitstun and L-Cancel. Geno REALLY doesn't matter, and Sakurai is thankfully smart enough to realize that.

Agreed.

Having a couple hundred people happy is in no way a smart move when compared to how many people will have no idea who Geno is.

Marth and Roy are examples of 2 characters that suffered that fate. The only difference is that marth and roy represented a whole franchise. Geno on the other hand is a character that played a side role in a game released long ago.

-Bowser King

 

[PanzerOceania]

if you looked at the vote it was more than a couple hundred, as FatJackieChan stated he was in highest demand, thousands upons thousands, I didn't even put him on my roster but the fact that he is highly desired is undeniable.

He may have only been in one game but the average 20-25 gamer if they had an SNES at the time has prolly played SMRPG, i'd wager the numbers for Super Paper Mario are much lower.

that really isn't the point though, as much as I love him, we don't need more mario characters, at all, if anyone I think koopa jr. / Shadow Mario would be the best bet.