[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

Oh, right.

...I know, let's just give off some drama, m'kay?

Your opinion is no longer valid.

Grasping at straws, I see.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Your opinion is no longer valid.

Grasping at straws, I see.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Meh. Knew you'd say something like that.

I'll stand from what I said though, if this keeps on, Fox must be the only Star Fox character to end this. (Yes, same goes from what I said NEXT)

Or, in a better way, leave it up to the producers of Smash (Sakurai isn't the only one, right? Unless by saying "Sakurai" you mean all the group).

 

[ChronoBound]

How to solve the Fox/Falco/Wolf clone issue:

Give Fox Krystal's staff.

Adventures will be forgotten by the time Smash 4 rolls around. The better solution would be to give Wolf different specials and a final smash since that is all he needs to be completely decloned. However, giving Fox the staff is an attractive idea simply due to giving the Krystal supporters one less argument supporting her inclusion, however, it could backfire anbd simply create popular support for a clone of an existing character (much of how a lot of Black Shadow's support for Smash Bros. comes from him being a suitable heavy, slow, powerful clone of Falcon, that way Ganondorf could be given an unique moveset).

To Roy-Kun: I agree on there being only one Star Fox character. Perhaps the rule should also extend to Fire Emblem only that there would be only two slots, one for Marth, and one for the most recent popular lord, since often times (aside from Marth's universe) a protagonist for a series is never seen again once work on that arc is finished (the only arc that is ever returned to is Akaneia, whereas Jugdral, Elibe, and perhaps Tellius where never revisited). Although I am a big fan of Roy and Ike.

Also, I brought up earlier how it would be increasingly difficult with each progressive installment of Smash Bros. to program a larger roster. If we get down to nitty gritty, here are the only "real" superstars that have been in the Smash Bros. series:

 

[flyinfilipino]

"Balanced SSB3.5 Roster"

Mario
Donkey Kong
Wario
Yoshi
Link
Fox
Captain Falcon
Samus (Zero Suit Samus)
Kirby
Pikachu
Ness
Marth
Olimar
Ice Climbers
Pit
ROB
Mr. Game & Watch
Snake
Sonic
*add any newcomers that do not come from any pre-existing franchises or are 'clones' of existing characters*

There, "balanced" franchise representation. Hm, your favorite character was cut? Screw that, the roster is "balanced".

 

[Roy-Kun]

To Roy-Kun: I agree on there being only one Star Fox character. Perhaps the rule should also extend to Fire Emblem only that there would be only two slots, one for Marth, and one for the most recent popular lord, since often times (aside from Marth's universe) a protagonist for a series is never seen again once work on that arc is finished (the only arc that is ever returned to is Akaneia, whereas Jugdral, Elibe, and perhaps Tellius where never revisited). Although I am a big fan of Roy and Ike.

Let's put it simple then:

Star Fox with one to a max of 3 characters. If 3, the same cast from Brawl.

Fire Emblem 2 to 3, max. More likely to be 2, Ike can be forgotten, pretty much. ...Oh no, Ike fans will kill me.

Edit: Oh, it works! Perfect, as it should have been.

Let's bring now many new franchises. I call for Golden Sun.

I'm serious, this is trully a balanced roster.

 

[Lord Viper]

They should add an option to turn off the weapons/random crap in some stages, so they become playable

☆ You mean the option to turn on/off the uber stage hazards on some ban stage's? I guess they should since they have that option on Mario Strikers Charged. ☆

 

[ChronoBound]

Let's put it simple then:

Star Fox with one to a max of 3 characters. If 3, the same cast from Brawl.

Fire Emblem 2 to 3, max. More likely to be 2, Ike can be forgotten, pretty much. ...Oh no, Ike fans will kill me.

Edit: Oh, it works! Perfect, as it should have been.

Let's bring now many new franchises. I call for Golden Sun.

I'm serious, this is trully a balanced roster.

Yes, there are hardly any characters from veteran franchises that deserves to be in left (Ridley, K. Rool, and either Paper Mario or Bowser Jr., and Mewtwo and Roy). Nintendo has a lot of series (as in they have more than one game) that have yet to gain a playable character in Smash Bros.

These series include:
Punch-Out
Custom Robo
Stafy
Puzzle League/Panel de Pon
Famicom/Advance Wars
Golden Sun

All of the above series (with the exception of Golden Sun) have had at least four games, and considerable amount of popularity (Golden Sun obviously included).

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Why axe Ike?

 

[Roy-Kun]

Why axe Ike?

Give Ike, say, 5 or more years.

From the many Fire Emblem games that will come during that process, will you still like Ike? OR will the fans like the new Lords?

Really, it depends if Ike survives in popularity. Either, Marth will stay and the new FE Lord will enter the next Smash.

And we all live unhapilly ever after.

Edit: Before you put characters like Mario or others like him, save your time. Fire Emblem has many different stories, it's one of those "I LIKE THIS CHARACTER" quantity vs. "I LIKE THIS OTHER ONE MORE" thing. Pretty much like Pokemon.

I don't know why Jigglypuff is still in Smash, oh well.

 

[ChronoBound]

Why axe Ike?

The principle argument behind this would be that he would no longer be relevant in his own series by the time Smash 4 is released (which would be 2014 assuming the period of time between Smash 4 and Brawl is the same as it was between Melee and Brawl). Aside from Marth, there has never been a lord that was returned to once their arc was finished. However, personally I do not want Ike to be cut, and I even want Roy to return.

 

[Katapultar]

I would really like them to have more than 3 stage builder backgrounds. Say, 10 to 15, perhaps, as 3 gets really boring. They should let you use backgrounds from SSE for stage builder backgrounds. That would be so cool.

 

[Nick The Potato]

Travis Touchdown anyone?

 

[MarthFanatique]

I would really like them to have more than 3 stage builder backgrounds. Say, 10 to 15, perhaps, as 3 gets really boring. They should let you use backgrounds from SSE for stage builder backgrounds. That would be so cool.

Yes; this is, however, only many of the faults of Stage Builder. It is an absolute awesome addition to Brawl. That, I believe, was their goal: to actually make it possible with a lot of options, some unlockables, and try to minimize the amount of bugs/glitches (which so far I've only found one on one of my stages). This was more or less a set up for the next sequel in the Smash series. In Smash 4, Stage Builder will most likely be upgraded with more objects, more sizing options, more backgrounds, possibly the ability to customize the angle (i.e. 45 degrees), perhaps series-specific objects (i.e. Mario series=warp pipe, Pokémon series=Pokémon box from Saffron City [to quell the Saffron fans]), and much more. The Stage Builder we have now is like a setup to a combo: they made Stage Builder in Brawl, so that in Smash 4 they will enhance it thoroghly.

Travis Touchdown anyone?

I don't believe his game went over very well in both the U.S. nor Japan...am I correct? If this is true, I doubt he'll appear in Smash 4 unless there's a fantastic, jaw-dropping sequel.

 

[Phantom7]

Who all out here agrees that when and if they make SSB4, they should not have an extended adventure mode like the SSE, but a shorter one similar to Melee's? But hopefully with more cutscenes, levels, etc.

That would clear up so much room for characters, stage builder customizition (More backgrounds, parts, tiles, etc.) and maybe even a character designer that could possibly have 3 different movesets that you mix up to build your moveset and stats.

Also - get rid of masterpieces and chronicle for a smash bros 64 emulator on the game. They fit Zelda: OoT and StarFox64 on Brawl, why couldn't they fit SSB64 alone?

I was also thinking they should add a backtilt, and other features to make the game more competitive, like more techs and strategies you find out on your own py simply practicing.

I would also like to see Race to the Finish return in classic, and a TargetSmash for every character.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Who all out here agrees that when and if they make SSB4, they should not have an extended adventure mode like the SSE, but a shorter one similar to Melee's? But hopefully with more cutscenes, levels, etc.

Not necessarily shorter, it should be better. I think if they had something in the style of Super Paper Mario, with fun levels, a hub world, and a storyline with text. A lot of Nintendo characters don't have voices, but they do speak through speech bubbles at times.

That would clear up so much room for characters, stage builder customizition (More backgrounds, parts, tiles, etc.) and maybe even a character designer that could possibly have 3 different movesets that you mix up to build your moveset and stats.

More characters is good.
Stage Builder should be worked on, but if it stays the same then I'm ok.
Character design is a big no no.

Also - get rid of masterpieces and chronicle for a smash bros 64 emulator on the game. They fit Zelda: OoT and StarFox64 on Brawl, why couldn't they fit SSB64 alone?

They were only 5 minute demos, it's take a lot more room to get a full port of SSB on there. Also, why get rid of the chronicle, it's good for reading through what games come out for what console and when.

I was also thinking they should add a backtilt, and other features to make the game more competitive, like more techs and strategies you find out on your own py simply practicing.

Back tilt wouldn't work. If you did that, you'd probably turn round. Unless of course they map the turning to a separate button *cough*Guilty Gear Isuka*cough*
More techniques should come in/ return, but it's up to the players to find effective strategies and AT's.

I would also like to see Race to the Finish return in classic, and a TargetSmash for every character.
Yay!

I put my comments in red.

 

[Sihlus]

Name:
- I couldn’t care less what they named it.

Online play:
- Create a Super Smash Bros. Channel
- Needs to be smoother, less lag
- Needs a ranking system of some kind/ team ranking system
- Needs more options (such as stock battles, team battles)
- A spectator mode where you can watch friend's matches

More elaborate/extensive stage builder:
- More parts
- More complex and varied parts
- More backgrounds/ terrain choices
- The ability to set where characters will spawn
- Interactive/destroyable/movable stage parts (such as R-wings as in Corneria or Pokemon as in Saffron city)
-The ability to upload your own music in the game to use in the stage builder

Characters:
- Multiple character costumes (skins) like Wario has. For example Mario-Dr. Mario, Samus- Fusion suite, Capt. Falcon- Blood Falcon, Sonic-Shadow.
- The most up to date appearance for each character possible
- I really don’t care which characters they add or take away as long as they don’t cut the original twelve
- Make ZSS selectable on the screen at the beginning like Shiek
- More team colors options.
- Remove the gang up tendency the CPUs have.

Stages:
- Sell new versions of old stages from SSB, SSM, and SSBB on the virtual store for SSB4.
- The option to turn stage hazards off (this would allow more sages to be used in tourniments)

Modes/rules:
-An unlockable sub menu on the item On/Off switch for Poké Balls and Assist Trophies
- More special modes, for example a mode (kinda like special brawl) in which you could play a 1v1 or 2v2 game with stickers. You could in essence customize your character.
- The ability to create a customized set of rules and save it to the hard disk so that you can quickly change the rules you want to play with without having to go and change all the rules individually. This is similar to the concept used in the Halo games in multiplayer.
- Break the Targets should have two modes one in which characters have unique stages specific to them and another mode like the brake the target in brawl to allow for direct competition. Break the target in the Classic game should be character specific.
- 4-player co-op modes.
- Get rid of masterpieces (they take up space), there should be a channel for this on the Wii. That would be cool, a channel where you could tryout classic games before buying them.

Game mechanics:
-No more random tripping or at least the ability to turn it off
-Put a limit on the number of times you can air dodge (unlimited air dodge is lame).

Other points:
-No point in wishing for technical things concerning game physics as they are going to do it their own way regardless what you or I think.
-It isn’t all that fair for us to ask that they take our views (those of competitive players) more seriously then the views of casual players. They have the right to play, enjoy, and have an influence on the game too.
- I didn’t get into specifics about balancing and character move sets because it’s boring for others to read and it gets way too complicated. Additionally everyone has their own opinion about this kinda stuff, and is bias in one way or another (this includes myself) so its pointless to argue about it.

 

[KCJ506]

Hmmm, what if SSB4 included a new backtilt? Wouldn't that be interesting?

+1 for these characters:
Ridley(Don't care about)
Bowser Jr.(Indeed.)
Krystal(A big YES. She would use her staff and could actually have her own unique moveset.)
BomberMan(Don't care about)
Wolf Link(Don't care about)
Sylux(Don't care about)
Shadow(If Sonic were to get another rep I'd prefer Knuckles)
MegaMan(Like other people said he's the most deserving 3rd party character)
Geno(Don't care about)
Isaac(Yes)
Samurai Goroh(Black Shadow should get in first)
Zant(Don't care about)
Deoxys(Don't care about)
Mewtwo(Shouldn't have been cut from Brawl)
Roy(Same as above)
Petey Piranha(A big HELL NO)
Gray Fox(I think MGS only needs one rep.)

Comments are in bold.

 

[DekuBoy]

I have one big problem with alt colours. If you go to Stack Smash they make frankly awesome costumes which take up no more disk space than the standard boring, 'yellow Kirby' or whatever. I think characters like Daisy should be costumes but who count towards the roster count like clones. Then, in a manner of speaking, we could say we have 100 characters. Nothing serious just my random ranting.

 

[justaway12]

I have one big problem with alt colours. If you go to Stack Smash they make frankly awesome costumes which take up no more disk space than the standard boring, 'yellow Kirby' or whatever. I think characters like Daisy should be costumes but who count towards the roster count like clones. Then, in a manner of speaking, we could say we have 100 characters. Nothing serious just my random ranting.

I think they would be awesome if alt.costume were in SSE (Daisy, Dr. mario, Dark Samus etc.) as their own characters but outside of SSE they sould remain alt.coustumes it would make people who wanted those character happy and not have any clones, I don't think daisy would be a clone if she does get in (I doubt she will) but whatever that's not important right now.

 

[DylantheNinja]

Warning:wall of text below.

As for character creation I think it should include miis. You can customize how your mii fights and save like 5 miis to use. It could be set so that your mii's dimensions affect properties, like how fat it is decides whether it has more mobility or whether it is heavier, and how tall it is decides whether it's attacks are stronger or faster. Further fine tuning could be done. You could select one of three "types" for your character to be: melee, weapon, or magic. Melee characters would be like mario, c. falcon, ganon and such. Weapon characters would use a sword or something like link, mk, and marth. Magic characters would be like Zelda, Ness, and mewtwo. Those types could have their own attributes, like melee attacks faster, weapons has more range, and magic is most powerful in a single hit, this way it could be overall balanced. Then you choose specials, and you can choose to use any specials that the other characters have. BUT! you could not choose all the best specials and this would be controlled by a ranking system. That is, specials would be ranked in order of usefulness. For instance, Kirby's ^b would be ranked 1 because it can spike, has a projectile, is an automatic combo, and is good vertical recovery. His >b would be ranked 2 because it's fast in the air and is a great killer. Kirby's b would be ranked 3 because it's only useful against other characters with good neutral b's, suiciding, and a little bit of damage. His vb would be ranked 4 because it's very easy to dodge, very laggy at both start and end, and you are very vulnerable to grabs. The mii would have to have one 1 rank, one 2 rank, and so on. Also, some specials which just couldn't work (inhale, egg lay, these kinds of things) could not be used, and yuo can only use specials of a character of your type (melee could only use things from mario, c. falcon, etc, weapons could only use from link, marth, mk, etc., and magic could only use from zelda, ness, mewtwo etc.)

Further fine tuning could be implemented but I won't go into it because I'm bored already, anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that it could work if it were well balanced, but if they screw it up it could break the game

Edit: you could maybe add effects to your attacks like flames or darkness, that don't add any attack value but are just for show.

 

[UncleSam]

I don't believe his game went over very well in both the U.S. nor Japan...am I correct? If this is true, I doubt he'll appear in Smash 4 unless there's a fantastic, jaw-dropping sequel.

That's all the more reason for Nintendo to make a jaw-dropping sequel.
And No More Heroes IMO wasn't very bad maybe he could be an Assist trophy

 

[Big-Cat]

I have one big problem with alt colours. If you go to Stack Smash they make frankly awesome costumes which take up no more disk space than the standard boring, 'yellow Kirby' or whatever. I think characters like Daisy should be costumes but who count towards the roster count like clones. Then, in a manner of speaking, we could say we have 100 characters. Nothing serious just my random ranting.

That's something that I would love to see. However, unlike the clones in the past, these characters exist underneath their original character. So, they're technically not clones.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ You know what will be cool? If Mario use a Tanuki Suit for his Final Smash. =D ☆

 

[Kraryo]

Despite the SSE being the worst thing (tripping is second) to happen to Smash and should never happen again, Primids would make a good alternative to Miis for a template for custom characters and double as the first playable (without cheating) original Smash character.

 

[justaway12]

☆ You know what will be cool? If Mario use a Tanuki Suit for his Final Smash. =D ☆

either this or super mario (with the cape and everything... you know what I mean).

 

[§leepy God]

either this or super mario (with the cape and everything... you know what I mean).

That would be win, like your avatar. :D

Since they have Wario Man and everything, why not Cape Mario, (though it is one of his moves).

 

[justaway12]

That would be win, like your avatar. :D

Since they have Wario Man and everything, why not Cape Mario, (though it is one of his moves).

Everytime you mention my avatar it makes me smile.

And it's ok afterall it's mario he can do whatever he wants (HE'S JUST THAT AWESOME).

 

[Jimnymebob]

Tabuu should get the role as the first original playable character.
Sure, he'd need toning down a lot, but he could work, due to humanoid form. The only thing I worry about is that his standard attacks could be copies of other characters.

 

[justaway12]

Wasn't this whole game only about nintendo characters? and if anyones fisrt it's obviously master hand.

 

[Zylar]

Despite the SSE being the worst thing (tripping is second) to happen to Smash and should never happen again, Primids would make a good alternative to Miis for a template for custom characters and double as the first playable (without cheating) original Smash character.

This, frankly, is genius. I agree!

10<3

 

[Scott!]

Despite the SSE being the worst thing (tripping is second) to happen to Smash and should never happen again, Primids would make a good alternative to Miis for a template for custom characters and double as the first playable (without cheating) original Smash character.

SSE worse than tripping? SSE doesn't have a negative impact on every single match played (without hacking). SSE, while it could use some serious improvements, was not inherently bad. It had some pretty sweet cutscenes, and it was decently entertaining until the maze. And once you unlock everyone, you're done forever. Wait, you don't even need to do it to unlock them. Tripping is far worse. And by this, I mean random tripping. Having bananas and other moves cause tripping is fine.

 

[Kraryo]

SSE worse than tripping? SSE doesn't have a negative impact on every single match played (without hacking). SSE, while it could use some serious improvements, was not inherently bad. It had some pretty sweet cutscenes, and it was decently entertaining until the maze. And once you unlock everyone, you're done forever. Wait, you don't even need to do it to unlock them. Tripping is far worse. And by this, I mean random tripping. Having bananas and other moves cause tripping is fine.

Well, you are right about the SSE not affecting every match. However, all the time and effort used to make the SSE would of been better used to improve Wi-Fi and get permission from Capcom to use Mega Man (preferrably classic Mega Man, but any Mega Man that's not X will do). And while I do absolutly hate tripping, it didn't take even a fraction of the time it took to make the SSE and it doesn't screw with me that often.

 

[§leepy God]

Really? I thought it was Capcom's fault for not contacting Nintendo for Megaman. I mean, Snake got in because his company wanted him in Smash.

Everytime you mention my avatar it makes me smile.

And it's ok afterall it's mario he can do whatever he wants (HE'S JUST THAT AWESOME).

Because your avatar is awesome. :D

And I guess he can, since Diddy Kong has two of his moves in one Final Smash.

 

[Big-Cat]

Actually, Capcom was expecting to be contacted.

 

[§leepy God]

Yea, I'm not into the info of Smash and such. I guess that's that.

 

[RandomNutjob]

Me again

Just a small post [for once ]

Six or EIGHT players

If 6 then have free-for-all and team battles [3v3 and 2v2v2 OR handicap - 5v1 player v 5 CPUs anyone?]

If 8 then similar deal: free-for-all, 4v4, 2v2v2v2, and so on

Also i love idea of customising Pokeball and Assist Trophy contents

As for Masterpieces - defo need separating - as does Chronicles [kinda unnecessary tbh]

Remove tripping [obviously]

And enhance "Adventure" mode

As for original character think it'd be one of the SSE enemies over Master/Crazy Hand and Tabuu considering they float so be hard to work mechanics

 

[justaway12]

Just a small post [for once ]

Six or EIGHT players

If 6 then have free-for-all and team battles [3v3 and 2v2v2 OR handicap - 5v1 player v 5 CPUs anyone?]

If 8 then similar deal: free-for-all, 4v4, 2v2v2v2, and so on

That would be fun aslong as it long doesn't mean you HAVE to have 8 players when you're on with anyone and I guess they would have to make the stages larger but it would be worth it.

Silly Random Nutjob the reason they got rid of mewtwo was because he floated and therefore couldn't trip (why would they have Tabbu or Master hand) even though that reason has never been said by Sakurai that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[RandomNutjob]

Silly Random Nutjob the reason they got rid of mewtwo was because he floated and therefore couldn't trip (why would they have Tabbu or Master hand) even though that reason has never been said by Sakurai that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Forgive me, not played Melee much [cue flames]

BUT i mean they can't be knocked off stage so be unfair and would have to rely on stamina over stock [that was point was trying to make]

As for 8 "player" option mean 8 people onscreen - doesn't mean HAVE to have 8 human players - sorry wasn't clearer

Only problem can see is would end up cluttered unless simplified scores etc - hmm guess needs some work but i'd defo like more people onscreen at once

Oh and team battles should be bigger - say 20, 25 or more

AND Classic needs randomising so not fighting similar battles so often

 

[Mythic02]

Mewtwo didn't get taken out because he couldn't trip. Heck, they even put in rob and he can't trip either. Rob doesn't even have a helpless scene. Also, i don't think floating is master hands problem. He could float but as soon as he goes off stage he would start to fall. I think he would be too good for a character. If anything i think they should make a special mode where you can play as the bosses.

20-25 people on the same team is too much. Also i would go for 6 people because it's a step in the right direction without being too crazy. I don't think the scoring would be much crazier than it is now, you would just get a bit bigger of numbers. I think they would have to lower the average death rate because 6 people that don't die at 150% would take really long.

 

[justaway12]

Forgive me, not played Melee much [cue flames]

BUT i mean they can't be knocked off stage so be unfair and would have to rely on stamina over stock [that was point was trying to make]

As for 8 "player" option mean 8 people onscreen - doesn't mean HAVE to have 8 human players - sorry wasn't clearer

It doesn't matter if you didn't play melee it was a joke if Tabuu, Master hand etc. are giong to be playable they should be able to get knocked back (like mewtwo) so i don't think it's a problem I would like it if they were in 4.

That 8 players thing means aslong as it isn't like this online where you normally play with the maximum amout of players I think the players should chose how many characters they play against like 1v1 or 1v1v1 etc.

And I wasn't serious about tripping.