[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ChronoBound]

Message board popularity is a horrible thing to go by. Most people in real life don't even know who Geno is. Bowser Jr. is much more well-known, popular, and important to the main Mario series than Geno is. To suggest otherwise would mean you are a fanboy or just plain delusional.

 

[flyinfilipino]

No, it all depends on request. There isn't much correlation between sales and who gets in.

I'm not condoning message boards. It's the only way to get any kind of results outside of an official poll. The problem with Paper Mario is he is a character who has very little popularity, so naturally, he'll only be popular on message boards (where Geno will spill over).

@Kraryo:If Eggman were playable, I'd like to see him in the mech. it just screams Eggman.

I still don't get how you can say that no one out there wants Paper Mario at all if we're disregarding all message board popularity except for Geno's, but whatever.

I think Eggman would actually be a really cool character. All of Sonic's little allies seem to just blend together (to me, at least), but Eggman stands out as an iconic villain figure who could be implemented really well.

 

[Kraryo]

Not many people outside of people knew about Ness, since sadly, his game didn't sell well in the US and it didn't even come to Europe. Ness was less iconic than just about everybody else in SSB64. He still happened to make it into the Smash series.

 

[espio87]

Message board popularity is a horrible thing to go by. Most people in real life don't even know who Geno is. Bowser Jr. is much more well-known, popular, and important to the main Mario series than Geno is. To suggest otherwise would mean you are a fanboy or just plain delusional.

still, the problem is his moveset. Since he's Bowser's son he'll surely get most of his father's moves and he would end up as a clone, not a luigified one, but a clone a la Toon Link.

Eggman in one of his fighting mechs would be neat as well.

I don't think that's gonna happen, but he has high chances of being a boss in the next adventure mode, and I would be happy with that.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Message board popularity is a horrible thing to go by. Most people in real life don't even know who Geno is. Bowser Jr. is much more well-known, popular, and important to the main Mario series than Geno is. To suggest otherwise would mean you are a fanboy or just plain delusional.

Well said. Bowser jr. is more popular. Geno is one of those characters like Dynamite Heady, he was cool for his time, but does he need to come back?

Have a Sandslash.

 

[Green'n'Clean]

Seems like everybody only cares about which characters will be in the next iteration.
To be honest, once I begin actually playing a game, I don't really care what characters are in it (The obvious exception being falcon). I always just play the character that fits my style the most. Therefore, in SSB4, i just want deeper gameplay.

Here's the additions I want:

Wavedash

Yes. Wavedash. But not really the wavedash from melee. The wavedash in melee wasn't really intentional, and it forced you to practice technical skills for no real reason. What I'd do if I were in charge of the next smash game is, I'd add a dash, only possible to do on the ground. Basically a WD assigned to a button (say R on the GC controller). Possible to do forwards, backwards and while standing in place. Also since wavelanding on platforms was very tech-heavy in melee (i still can't do it), and you can't do it in the air, you'd be able to buffer wavelands, making this difficult technique sufficiently easy for people growing up with brawl.


L-cancel

L-cancel should always be automatic, see brawl+ debates for arguments.


Dash-dancing

Like it was in 64 and melee.


(anti)Tripping

WHY SAKURAI?! WHYY!?!?!?
Srsly, if the choice were mine, I'd put in a 20-minute video of Sakurai apologizing for this and making penance for his foul deeds.


Melee 2.0

Not really, brawl did many things right. Brawls cast shows much more variety than melees, with characters like Snake and Olimar. Some of the characters are truly original, and I'd much rather have the characters from brawl (though rebalanced) than those of melee.

Combos

You can say what you want about Brawl, but combos are missed.
I'd however like to see more DI and patches removing all inescapables (including (only inescapable (and ******** (like D3s))) chain-throws).


Captain Falcon

God tier.


Balancing

Done through patches.

Patches done by this guy

(that's David Sirlin, for those of you who didn't know)




Basically kind of like melee, but without the tech skill (which was unnecessary, really).

 

[Jimnymebob]

Lol at David Sirlin.
The guy seems great at fighting games, but his SSBB tutorials were terrible.
He makes clear on the video that he doesn't know a great deal about SSBB compared to some people on this site, as he admits he doesn't know a lot of characters Super Armour.
If someone was to patch Brawl, which is a silly idea anyway- it's not a PC game, then you would need a group of people skilled as each of the characters to get a balanced patch.

Also, you want a new game, but then you want someone to come along and change all the things you worked so hard on? If Sakurai knew that as soon as he makes the next game, a group of people would come along and completely change it, would there be a point of him making it?

And we don't want/ need Melee 2.0. Seriously, it's pointless- people will start complaining that they miss features from Brawl if they did that...

 

[Green'n'Clean]

Lol at David Sirlin.
The guy seems great at fighting games, but his SSBB tutorials were terrible.
He makes clear on the video that he doesn't know a great deal about SSBB compared to some people on this site, as he admits he doesn't know a lot of characters Super Armour.
If someone was to patch Brawl, which is a silly idea anyway- it's not a PC game, then you would need a group of people skilled as each of the characters to get a balanced patch.

Also, you want a new game, but then you want someone to come along and change all the things you worked so hard on? If Sakurai knew that as soon as he makes the next game, a group of people would come along and completely change it, would there be a point of him making it?

And we don't want/ need Melee 2.0. Seriously, it's pointless- people will start complaining that they miss features from Brawl if they did that...

I'm completely convinced that if Sirlin were asked to balance SSB4 , he would do some catching up. In the balancing process of SSF2THDR Sirlin, himself a pro, had an ongoing dialogue with several japanese and american pros of the predecessor SSF2T. I belive he would do the same for SSB4. In addition to that he is the founding father of the playing to win philosophy, and that's gotta count .

Also, if you had the decency to actually read my post, you would've noticed that the only thing I actually removed from brawl was tripping and inescapables.
Can you seriously say people would miss those?

 

[Jimnymebob]

I'm completely convinced that if Sirlin were asked to balance SSB4 , he would do some catching up. In the balancing process of SSF2THDR Sirlin, himself a pro, had an ongoing dialogue with several japanese and american pros of the predecessor SSF2T. I belive he would do the same for SSB4. In addition to that he is the founding father of the playing to win philosophy, and that's gotta count .

Also, if you had the decency to actually read my post, you would've noticed that the only thing I actually removed from brawl was tripping and inescapables.
Can you seriously say people would miss those?

First off, I did read your post, so please stop jumping to conclusions.

Secondly, the fact that he is the founding father of the playing to win philosophy is a bad thing, as SSB always was, and always will be, a game with casuals set in mind. That doesn't mean it can't be competitive, it just isn't made with that minority in mind.

Finally, people won't miss tripping and inescapables, I know that.

Why can't Sakurai work on the characters and balancing them like he has always done? Sure, his balancing could use a lot of work, but why give it another person to balance- Sakurai might as well not make anymore games.
Part of the charm of the SSB series is that I think Sakurai does most of the balancing and statistics for each character by himself, and stripping him of that would make the series lose it's charm.

 

[Green'n'Clean]

Secondly, the fact that he is the founding father of the playing to win philosophy is a bad thing, as SSB always was, and always will be, a game with casuals set in mind. That doesn't mean it can't be competitive, it just isn't made with that minority in mind.

Why can't Sakurai work on the characters and balancing them like he has always done? Sure, his balancing could use a lot of work, but why give it another person to balance- Sakurai might as well not make anymore games.
Part of the charm of the SSB series is that I think Sakurai does most of the balancing and statistics for each character by himself, and stripping him of that would make the series lose it's charm.

I simply cannot see how someone trying to design the next iteration of smash to be a deep, competitive game could be a bad thing.
Your argument is composed of a statement and a conclusion, both of which are false. There is no reason for smash to always be targeting the casual market exclusively(, and to be honest, the casual market is pretty much satisfied with whatever it gets its hands on).

Why Sakurai can't balance the cast? Because he doesn't really like, try?
A ******** fish-frog could've spotted all chaingrabs, grab-releases and meta-knight in the early stages of development, however Sakurai failed to do so, and openly admits he was in charge.

You tell me not to jump to conclusions, yet you assume that Sakurai single-handedly, with his inexplicably flawed balancing actually made the games better?
I'd like to hear what made you arrive at this conclusion.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I simply cannot see how someone trying to design the next iteration of smash to be a deep, competitive game could be a bad thing.
Your argument is composed of a statement and a conclusion, both of which are false. There is no reason for smash to always be targeting the casual market exclusively(, and to be honest, the casual market is pretty much satisfied with whatever it gets its hands on).

Why Sakurai can't balance the cast? Because he doesn't really like, try?
A ******** fish-frog could've spotted all chaingrabs, grab-releases and meta-knight in the early stages of development, however Sakurai failed to do so, and openly admits he was in charge.

You tell me not to jump to conclusions, yet you assume that Sakurai single-handedly, with his inexplicably flawed balancing actually made the games better?
I'd like to hear what made you arrive at this conclusion.

It's called opinion

Anyway, if you want Sakurai's balancing to be completely disregarded then why don't you just say you want Sirlin to make Super Smash Bros. Melee 2 Turbo.
Imagine making a game and then have someone else take it from you, modify it, and make everyone else use that version instead.

Sirlin would have to pay thousands to get Sakurai to let him do that.

 

[Green'n'Clean]

It's called opinion .

I guess so, but hey, why not go on with the pointless discussion? This is after all teh internets .

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

geno sucks, he's not significant to anything, not a nintendo character, and has no chance to get into smash, fanboyism doesn't mean he gets in. sorry geno fans.

I'm not very fond of Geno myself (never really liked Super Mario RPG), but I don't complain about it.

 

[BKupa666]

Sakurai did a better job with Melee's quality and quantity as a whole:

In Melee, when he had extra time, he saw his 20 character roster and said...let's add 6 more characters. They may be clones, but they are still different enough to bring some new playstyles to the game.

In Brawl, he openly admits he had lots of extra time that he simply spent distilling gameplay.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai did a better job with Melee's quality and quantity as a whole:

In Melee, when he had extra time, he saw his 20 character roster and said...let's add 6 more characters. They may be clones, but they are still different enough to bring some new playstyles to the game.

In Brawl, he openly admits he had lots of extra time that he simply spent distilling gameplay.

I agree. Heck, Sakurai said that most of Brawl's development went toward making the SSE. I think most people would have had six clones over the SSE.

 

[DekuBoy]

I think Sakurai should count opinions of people in other countries that just Japan. We didn't get a poll. We got no say. What is the point making a series which appeals to long time Nintendo fans if we get stuff we don't want?

 

[§leepy God]

So he should ask everyone how to develop his game? Knowing that would spend a lot more time to even put poll's for everyone around the world would vote on. If that was the case, you mind as well put polls for every game and for fans to vote on what should be in the game, why Smash Bros got to be one of a few games like that? Also, what if there were a poll around the world, people would still complain about this and that, I'm saying that would be a waste of time to make a poll in the first place.

 

[Dark Ryu]

So then why would he make a poll in japan?

Sleepy one if he makes a poll for just japan it will still have the same flaws/problems if he made it for the whole world.

 

[notftomearth7]

if he makes a poll for just japan it will still have the same flaws/problems if he made it for the whole world.

True, but let's just imagine for a second, that he catered to a lot of the fanbases, with a "no regrets" sort of attitude. Then gamers would be less apprehensive towards SSB4. I can't tell you how many of my friends were turned off to the game by the absence of certain characters, stages, etc.

 

[ChronoBound]

True, but let's just imagine for a second, that he catered to a lot of the fanbases, with a "no regrets" sort of attitude. Then gamers would be less apprehensive towards SSB4. I can't tell you how many of my friends were turned off to the game by the absence of certain characters, stages, etc.

The problem is that you can't satifsy everyone in terms of characters without turning Smash Bros. into DBZ fighting game.

Another thing I don't get is the people that suggest bizarre or obscure third-party characters for Smash Bros. such as Phoenix Wright.

 

[Jimnymebob]

One Man's Junk is Another Man's Treasure


This describes the use of a worldwide poll.
People will want, and not want different characters, so if Ridley got in over K.Rool for example, some people would be ecstatic, whilst others would be sad, and angry.

 

[§leepy God]

So then why would he make a poll in japan?

Sleepy one if he makes a poll for just japan it will still have the same flaws/problems if he made it for the whole world.

I was talking about DukeBoy's post, and what I said was the same thing you just said, lol.

Another thing I don't get is the people that suggest bizarre or obscure third-party characters for Smash Bros. such as Phoenix Wright.

I blame Olimar and ROB for that, also isn't Phoenix Wright from Capcom?

 

[ChronoBound]

I was talking about DukeBoy's post, and what I said was the same thing you just said, lol.



I blame Olimar and ROB for that, also isn't Phoenix Wright from Capcom?

Yes, Phoenix is Capcom, however, there have been people wanting him before Brawl. GameFAQs is pretty much a lost cause when it comes to intelligent discussion regarding Smash 4. The Brawl boards over there have pretty much deteriorated into a weeaboo ****fest.

 

[Mazaloth]

Personally I want a Melee 2.0 just with more characters and stages. Such as Issac or Lyn.
I miss the fast paced gameplay and advanced techniques.

 

[WolfCypher]

As a man alone on an island, I may be the token one here that does not want SSB4 to have neither Melee (god, no) or Brawl's physics. Like every game in this series, SSB4 needs to have its own physics.

And that's my personal opinion. Disagree all you want.

 

[trev94]

still, the problem is his moveset. Since he's Bowser's son he'll surely get most of his father's moves and he would end up as a clone, not a luigified one, but a clone a la Toon Link.]



Noooooo boswer Jr can be so much different then his dad. They would have to give him his PAINTBRUSH. Thats what he is know for away way so i dont see what the big thing is. AND im not saying he would chance in to shadow mario, maybe as a final smah, but not like Zeilda and sheck. I could care less if they but that in the game.

 

[WolfCypher]

I really would like B, JR. in SSB4, but why when it comes to him and Krystal, people insist that they will respectively use their paintbrush and staff? Neither character has used said tool since they first used it years ago (Sunshine and SFAdventures), and have moved on from them since.

Granted, I can see them still giving these guys these tools none the less...Sakurai doesn't have to stick with the convictions of having the characters use their most recent tools of trades...

 

[bksbestbwoy]

As a man alone on an island, I may be the token one here that does not want SSB4 to have neither Melee (god, no) or Brawl's physics. Like every game in this series, SSB4 needs to have its own physics.

And that's my personal opinion. Disagree all you want.

I agree with this post.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

As a man alone on an island, I may be the token one here that does not want SSB4 to have neither Melee (god, no) or Brawl's physics. Like every game in this series, SSB4 needs to have its own physics.

And that's my personal opinion. Disagree all you want.

i actually agree that they should try to be just like melee or brawl.
they should try to make a new game.
brawl, to a casual eye, is different and did not let anyone down.
to keep switching it up would be nice.

(for the record... i HEART meleezzz)

 

[Dark Ryu]

I want the next ssb4 to make falcon a good character. :]]]

 

[BKupa666]

I really would like B, JR. in SSB4, but why when it comes to him and Krystal, people insist that they will respectively use their paintbrush and staff? Neither character has used said tool since they first used it years ago (Sunshine and SFAdventures), and have moved on from them since.

Granted, I can see them still giving these guys these tools none the less...Sakurai doesn't have to stick with the convictions of having the characters use their most recent tools of trades...

Sakurai may just give the character one move with the paintbrush/staff. He may make their entire moveset based around the item. Or he may just omit it entirely, like he did with Luigi's Poltergust.

FYI Bowser Jr. uses his Paintbrush in some Mario Sports games. Although that shouldn't count for anything.

 

[trev94]

Does any one think that yoish should get reps in the next game?

 

[Dark Ryu]

Sakurai may just give the character one move with the paintbrush/staff. He may make their entire moveset based around the item. Or he may just omit it entirely, like he did with Luigi's Poltergust.

FYI Bowser Jr. uses his Paintbrush in some Mario Sports games. Although that shouldn't count for anything.

I see Krystal using her staff as that is her primary weapon. But I agree that they may just have one move with the staff or paintbrush.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Does any one think that yoish should get reps in the next game?

I'm not sure to be honest.

 

[trev94]

I'm not sure to be honest.

you dont like him or you just cant think of any? lol

 

[Jimnymebob]

No, Kamek should get in for a Yoshi rep. I wouldn't mind the babies (who are more likely), but a floating magic user would be interesting.

 

[Kraryo]

Baby Mario and Baby Luigi Ice Climber style would be pretty sweet.

 

[Dark Ryu]

Baby Mario and Baby Luigi Ice Climber style would be pretty sweet.

LoL as interesting as that sounds, We don't need Bmario or Bluigi in the next ssb.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Does any one think that yoish should get reps in the next game?

I thought the same thing at first and suggested Boshi for the role, but looking at it now, it doesn't really seem like it can be addressed.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

PLEASE leave out baby mario&luigi GAWD haha