[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[MasterWarlord]

Smashchu says Jigglypuff has better gimping then Meta Knight.

Just smile and nod.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Smashchu says Jigglypuff has better gimping then Meta Knight.

Just smile and nod.

To be fair, you thought Melee Fox was ban-worthy, among other things

 

[MasterWarlord]

I don't claim to be knoweledgable of the Melee competetive scene by any stretch of the imagination, but Smashchu basically says that everyone in the competetive Brawl scene is ******** and that MK and Dedede suck.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Meh, I'll let you take this up with him. *leaves room with ears covered*

 

[SmashChu]

I don't claim to be knoweledgable of the Melee competetive scene by any stretch of the imagination, but Smashchu basically says that everyone in the competetive Brawl scene is ******** and that MK and Dedede suck.

Don't get into a discussion just to ***** about me. If you have a problem, take it else where. None of this discussion has to do with competitive Brawl, so you might as well leave.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I don't need to get into the discussion if I can take away your credibility.

Direct me to any assist trophy or boss besides Ridley, Isaac, or maybe Goroh who was remotely likely to be playable.

 

[flyinfilipino]

*pokes head back in* @Warlord: Now you're just trolling. Just drop it, or exchange your kind words over PMs (or the social group for more fun)....

 

[SmashChu]

I don't need to get into the discussion if I can take away your credibility.

Direct me to any assist trophy or boss besides Ridley, Isaac, or maybe Goroh who was remotely likely to be playable.

So your whole purpose is to "destroy my credibility?" I must say, your doing a REALLY bad job of it. "OH NO, HE SAID JIGGLYPUFF WAS BETTER THEN META-KNIGHT AT SOMETHING (I FORGOT WHAT, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER). HE MUST BE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING!" Too bad it doesn't work like that. Also, all this is is an ad hominid. Your better off trying to prove me wrong then to come in here and say "HE HATES COMPETITIVE SMASH!"

......except it doesn't work to well if I have to tell you..........

 

[chansen]

I could definitely handle something in the high thirties to low forties for a figure on the character count in the new game, as long as we get sweet costumes. I mean you'd make people just as happy if you gave mario a dickload of new costumes. Racoon, Dark, Doc.... You could do this with a ton of the characters too. Perhaps a speed and size adjuster could be added? You could then give characters like Bowser a costume like Baby bowser, along with most of the other mario characters that have a baby form. DK Jr? Theres a sweet possibility (It's actually just a fantasy of mine...) that Sakurai could give us a Blastoise, easily accomplised with a bowser clone.

Maybe it's just me, but I also think the smash community is still largely disregarded by sakurai. But to say the least, I think we deserve a little fan service. ZSS? Yeah, make hella costumes. Peach? Yes please. Am I wrong? I'd think not. Hell, if they have parental controls on most of the systems these days (I'm pretty sure almost every system from last generation did, so this generation should have it aswell) you could program a way for the costumes to be unavailable, right? Besides by the time Smash 4 comes out, Obama will have crushed the nation and no one will care that the new smash got a lil lewd.

And give us the melee engine back.

Edit: Sorry for the obama shot, ignore that part.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't need to get into the discussion if I can take away your credibility.

Direct me to any assist trophy or boss besides Ridley, Isaac, or maybe Goroh who was remotely likely to be playable.

*cough* Also, taking away all the obvious answer choices is just pointless. There's no "credibility" to be lost there.

I could definitely handle something in the high thirties to low forties for a figure on the character count in the new game, as long as we get sweet costumes. I mean you'd make people just as happy if you gave mario a dickload of new costumes. Racoon, Dark, Doc.... You could do this with a ton of the characters too. Perhaps a speed and size adjuster could be added? You could then give characters like Bowser a costume like Baby bowser, along with most of the other mario characters that have a baby form. DK Jr? Theres a sweet possibility (It's actually just a fantasy of mine...) that Sakurai could give us a Blastoise, easily accomplised with a bowser clone.

Maybe it's just me, but I also think the smash community is still largely disregarded by sakurai. But to say the least, I think we deserve a little fan service. ZSS? Yeah, make hella costumes. Peach? Yes please. Am I wrong? I'd think not. Hell, if they have parental controls on most of the systems these days (I'm pretty sure almost every system from last generation did, so this generation should have it aswell) you could program a way for the costumes to be unavailable, right? Besides by the time Smash 4 comes out, Obama will have crushed the nation and no one will care that the new smash got a lil lewd.

And give us the melee engine back.

Edit: Sorry for the obama shot, ignore that part.

ANYWAY

Blastoise = YES! Make it happen!

 

[KingK.Rool]

Just so those people who know me from MYM know, I do follow this thread (and group) quite a bit. Admittedly, I haven't posted here much... But once I have something to say, I will. Just so you know.

Warlord: Aside from the ones you conveniently eliminated, I'd actually go out on a limb and say Little Mac had a remote chance to get into Brawl as a retro entry. You could also try to justify Lyn, but...

 

[flyinfilipino]

Warlord: Aside from the ones you conveniently eliminated, I'd actually go out on a limb and say Little Mac had a remote chance to get into Brawl as a retro entry. You could also try to justify Lyn, but...

Yeah, I mean, at the time (and by "time", I mean pre-Brawl)...almost anything was possible. That's why a lot of people had their hopes up for so many different characters in the first place.

That's why I think arguing adamantly about characters at this point in time is anti-productive; we're still in the right-after-Brawl period, where we can't do anything about what's already happened, and we don't have enough material to start really making good guesses about what we might see in SSB4.

 

[chansen]

Yeah, I mean, at the time (and by "time", I mean pre-Brawl)...almost anything was possible. That's why a lot of people had their hopes up for so many different characters in the first place.

That's why I think arguing adamantly about characters at this point in time is anti-productive; we're still in the right-after-Brawl period, where we can't do anything about what's already happened, and we don't have enough material to start really making good guesses about what we might see in SSB4.

I think you got your opinions flip flopped...
Pre-brawl was an obviously small world in need of much expanding, but with little resources to do said expanding. Now when brawl came out, we have snake and sonic that just throw everyone a curve, so now that we know that third party characters are gunna get involved, our options are definitely less limited to pre-brawl. Needless to say that many characters from both snake (grey fox) and sonics (tails, knuckles) series could be brought forth, hopefuly bringing us new and more exciting characters.

Did I mention costumes and melee engine?

 

[KingK.Rool]

Yeah, I mean, at the time (and by "time", I mean pre-Brawl)...almost anything was possible. That's why a lot of people had their hopes up for so many different characters in the first place.

That's why I think arguing adamantly about characters at this point in time is anti-productive; we're still in the right-after-Brawl period, where we can't do anything about what's already happened, and we don't have enough material to start really making good guesses about what we might see in SSB4.

I agree completely. A lot can happen in the next few years or however long it is until the next game. First, we need to make the shift from "post-Brawl" to "pre-SSB4". Then the real speculation can begin. Sakurai dashed a lot of hopes and thought-to-be shoe-ins by not giving them a mention in Brawl. I remember how popular a choice Takamaru was...

chansen: I believe he was referring to the period after we found out about third-party characters, but before the game actually came out. This was the time of rampant speculation. SSB 64 was a small affair and Melee was rushed, so everyone thought Brawl would be the one to at least double the roster, and open up all kinds of new opportunities. Which, of course, it really didn't. Now we can kinda see that some characters simply aren't going to make it in. Take Stafy and Goroh. I truly doubt they're going to break out of their AT status, and yet they were some big suggestions pre-Brawl. And if they won't make it in, a whole crowd of other, slightly-less-likely characters become impossible as well. Or something along those lines, it's late and my brain is a bit fried.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I agree completely. A lot can happen in the next few years or however long it is until the next game. First, we need to make the shift from "post-Brawl" to "pre-SSB4". Then the real speculation can begin. Sakurai dashed a lot of hopes and thought-to-be shoe-ins by not giving them a mention in Brawl. I remember how popular a choice Takamaru was...

chansen: I believe he was referring to the period after we found out about third-party characters, but before the game actually came out. This was the time of rampant speculation. SSB 64 was a small affair and Melee was rushed, so everyone thought Brawl would be the one to at least double the roster, and open up all kinds of new opportunities. Which, of course, it really didn't.

My bad chansen, I meant what K.Rool said: the period after third-party characters were revealed but before the final roster was revealed. Virtually every character that ended up in Brawl did have his/its own fanbase before the game was released, though. Even R.O.B. got a few mentions. I remember myself thinking that Pokemon Trainer and Olimar were a little too farfetched, but lo and behold, they worked out! We have so many "shoo-ins" now that people say should've been in Brawl and are undisputable and unquestionable for SSB4, but only because that's all we have to work with at the moment. We need to wait.

And there are a few things from Brawl's engine that we can work into Melee's old one...auto-tether is alright, but make it so that tethering to the stage is still an option if the edge is occupied. Then we'd be rollin'.

 

[Linkshot]

We should really stop taking pre-Brawl polls. Those were for Brawl.

An entire era of gaming will begin before 4's development, even as a concept. The only way we can get scoops on SSB4 is by reading Sakurai's mind.

So for now, all we can do is say who we want in, not what will get in. We have no right to shoot down others' opinions. If they want them in, that's that. It's not a matter of "Master Chief can't be in Smash Bros.". It's a matter of "I'll accept your wishes, but I'm not going to take them as a probability.".

I would love to see new series rep'd. I would love a new rep on every existing series (Flint or Kumatora <33). I would love a second rep for existing third party companies, regardless of what series they hail from. Those are my wishes.

And my final wish is for SSB4 to never be rushed. I wish for Sakurai's development team to take as long as they need. No scrapped or incomplete data.

 

[SmashChu]

Yeah, I mean, at the time (and by "time", I mean pre-Brawl)...almost anything was possible. That's why a lot of people had their hopes up for so many different characters in the first place.

Well, it's more that we thought anything was possible.

 

[MasterWarlord]

What do you suggest we do for now then if we can't argue about characters or really do any sort of speculation?

There really aren't that many things that can come up to change the roster, and we can already see the two most obvious future characters, the 5th gen rep and the new FE lord.

I really don't see any other characters that don't exist at this point of time in SSB4. Do you?

If you're talking about the sands of time altering existing characters' chances, that's more understandable. If the DK series stays in it's current mediocre state all the way up to SSB4, for example, I can see K. Rool not getting in.

 

[kid x]

What I want in SSB4:

No clones: The clones should have their own movesets.

More items, stages, characters: Speaks for itself.

Better online: Try to perfect the lag (no lag), rankings, leaderboards, customization (stock, coin, etc.)

Retro things: Retro stages, items, etc.

Things I want to see for myself: King K. Rool (I need to think of a moveset for him), Animal Crosser, Crash Bandicoot (I love this dude, always loved his games, before this new mutant era crap), and more.

 

[Deleted member]

If you're talking about the sands of time altering existing characters' chances, that's more understandable. If the DK series stays in it's current mediocre state all the way up to SSB4, for example, I can see K. Rool not getting in.

That's part of the problem, which I forgot to elaborate on.

Another example of this is Skull Kid - he had his last biggest and only substantial part in Majora's Mask. After Brawl, he's very much an impossibility against newer characters - he had his chance, even though he appears in some form in other Zelda games. The same could be said for K. Rool, as Donkey Kong itself is deteriorating and, soon enough, there will be actual human beings in the games. I'd say that Brawl was K. Rool's last chance, not unlike Wolf or Snake - considering that Star Fox is becoming less and less of an entity; Metal Gear Solid's remake is only traveling further and further back in time as it flows forwards.

 

[trev94]

Is toon link the same person as young link. If so I think that toon link should be a costum for young link. I have to say that I like toon link more, but I know alot of people liked young link because he was not toon and they like the hole orcades of time look. so yea i think toon link should be a costum but over all the charater would be named YOUNG LINK.


and if there not the same person just tell me lol. (im not the biggest zeild fan)

 

[Nick The Potato]

It is done http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6166460#post6166460

Motha f*** Blackhole that is my god d*** idea...

 

[Jimnymebob]

Young Link from SSBM was based around the OoT and MM Link.
Toon Link is an entirely different person.

I'd like Young Link for a costume, but it'd be difficult due to different proportions, and just wouldn't suit if they give Toon Link a WW moveset.

 

[chansen]

That's part of the problem, which I forgot to elaborate on.

Another example of this is Skull Kid - he had his last biggest and only substantial part in Majora's Mask. After Brawl, he's very much an impossibility against newer characters - he had his chance, even though he appears in some form in other Zelda games. The same could be said for K. Rool, as Donkey Kong itself is deteriorating and, soon enough, there will be actual human beings in the games. I'd say that Brawl was K. Rool's last chance, not unlike Wolf or Snake - considering that Star Fox is becoming less and less of an entity; Metal Gear Solid's remake is only traveling further and further back in time as it flows forwards.

Name a nintendo series that is doing substantially better than a non-nintendo series (besides mario or zelda, those are a given*) All of those characters that you mentioned would either make it or not regardless of how well their series is doing. Example: Sonic. We didn't want him because we love all of his currrent games (If you haven't noticed they suck real bad), we want him for his popularity and nostalgia.

*:Besides the fact that those two series are still doing well, considering how far they have come and how long they have been out, if any character were to be introduced to the smash world from these games, they'd not only have to be a significant character, spanning multiple titles but they would also have to have some sort of fan base. Sadly, this is why we can't play skull kid or waluigi, not enough feasible evidence was brought to sakurai's attention that indicated that he should put them in. I think that people probably wouldn't have cared that much if link and zelda weren't in their TP costumes. I mean, seriously, if I was a link main (thank god I'm not) I would probably go for a retro look anyway. That's why the failing series get the spotlight: Smashers love retro (pro or not).

 

[Deleted member]

Name a nintendo series that is doing substantially better than a non-nintendo series (besides mario or zelda, those are a given*) All of those characters that you mentioned would either make it or not regardless of how well their series is doing. Example: Sonic. We didn't want him because we love all of his currrent games, we want him for his popularity and nostalgia.

*:Besides the fact that those two series are still doing well, considering how far they have come and how long they have been out, if any character were to be introduced to the smash world from these games, they'd not only have to be a significant character, spanning multiple titles but they would also have to have some sort of fan base. Sadly, this is why we can't play skull kid or waluigi, not enough feasible evidence was brought to sakurai's attention that indicated that he should put them in. I think that people probably wouldn't have cared that much if link and zelda weren't in their TP costumes. I mean, seriously, if I was a link main (thank god I'm not) I would probably go for a retro look anyway. That's why the failing series get the spotlight: Smashers love retro (pro or not).

I didn't use Sonic, as he has a connection with Nintendo that is timeless.

I don't understand what you're getting at, exactly. Once a game is released, its relativity deteriorates over time. Donkey Kong as a game series is now comprised of mainly party games - individual personalities matter less than they did ten years ago, pushing back characters not already in back to the status of guys like Waluigi. We can all agree that - apart from K. Rool and Dixie - no other Donkey Kong character is going to be playable in Smash, which wouldn't be the conclusion you'd come to if we were still in the N64 generation.

Flashbacks to retro games - I see what you mean, but then we go into the 'WTF' character discussion. Ice Climbers, G&W, ROB and such are all random characters that Sakurai chose to surprise and inform gamers; I doubt they were seriously taken into consideration against others such as Wario or Diddy Kong.

Look at it this way: Donkey Kong is nowhere near as big as Mario, two characters is a stretch, even. Diddy is an exception as he is majorly important in the series... after which we get into a grey area. If the series were more popular - or quirky, as you mention about the 'WTF' characters - K. Rool would have a better chance, but, as it happens, the series is pretty mediocre at the moment and not noted for its characterisations. I don't see how K. Rool can be determined 'likely' from this, let alone his gloomy prospects when it comes to Brawl. Some characters were much more highly considered for SSB64 than K. Rool was for Brawl, and they didn't get in until the latest instalment.

 

[chansen]

I think you took my response as aggressive, I was just hoping to bring this thread's integrity up a pinch.

I'm high and tired, can you make a condensed version of that post ^?

Don't forget about japan dude, G&W and ROB were effing huge there. (I dunno bout ice climbers, i definitely agree with you there)

 

[Deleted member]

Stupid double post. Ignore this.

 

[Deleted member]

As was I.

Edit: Japan's freaking ********.

tl;dr version -

sonic timeless
games forgotten over time + DK sucks
WTF =/= serious contenders
Poop > DK, K. Rool hardly well-remembered

 

[chansen]

No seriously, theres no way your 5150.

 

[Deleted member]

Where does it say I'm '5150'?

 

[chansen]

I'll indulge you, for the sake of clarity.

5150 used to be the scourge of the boards, a troller of the 4chan caliber. I mean he was nasty. Hella nasty. I used to smash with him last winter a lot, and I learned that there is not a single shred of his personality that could ever redeem him. He is the exact same person in real life. If there was a way to troll real life, I'm sure 5150 would find a way to be really good at it.

Anyway, around when brawl came out, 5150 got perma-banned and his IP was written down with ink probably. So he set out to make a new name for his brawl alias. That name was Smash Daddy. Not to mention, he mained Dedede. Now, needless to say, if you really are 5150, then I have uncapped your scheme. But since your join date doesn't coincide with my story, youre in the clear.

Sorry for the mix up.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, how odd. ***** stole my username.

 

[SmashBrosMike]

You think Megaman would get alternate costumes. If so I wonder which ones?

 

[Deleted member]

You think Megaman would get alternate costumes. If so I wonder which ones?

I imagine they would be X / .EXE, just as a reference, because Mega Man X doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Proto Man.
X.
Battle Network.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think it would be Proto Man - this is jumping the gun a bit, but I imagine Proto Man as an assist trophy better than an alternate costume. He could easily be made to mimic Gray Fox's chasing / swipes.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Not as an actual costume, but just Megaman with red and grey armour.
He doesn't even need the cape and shield.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I would think Mega Man would have colours suited to Proto Man, or Zero, even.

 

[SmashChu]

That's part of the problem, which I forgot to elaborate on.

Another example of this is Skull Kid - he had his last biggest and only substantial part in Majora's Mask. After Brawl, he's very much an impossibility against newer characters - he had his chance, even though he appears in some form in other Zelda games. The same could be said for K. Rool, as Donkey Kong itself is deteriorating and, soon enough, there will be actual human beings in the games. I'd say that Brawl was K. Rool's last chance, not unlike Wolf or Snake - considering that Star Fox is becoming less and less of an entity; Metal Gear Solid's remake is only traveling further and further back in time as it flows forwards.

The problem is that none of this usually works out this way.

You guys are too ready to put a system in place with rules. The major factor that drives the roster is popularity. If the characters are popular, then they stand a good chance (less they meet other, smaller, requirements). Skull Kid was never that popular, so he's out. Krystal will move up in Japanese popularity and is doing well here, so she is probably in. King K. Rool is one I'm not sure is popular in Japan, but kind of popular here, so he stands a chance.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I really don't see any other characters that don't exist at this point of time in SSB4. Do you?

If you're talking about the sands of time altering existing characters' chances, that's more understandable. If the DK series stays in it's current mediocre state all the way up to SSB4, for example, I can see K. Rool not getting in.

I don't see any characters that don't exist right now either. Good, we're both normal!

I know what you mean though. I have faith that Nintendo will continue to progress their series and create some new good ones with new characters. I think that SSB4 will wait until this progress has been made. We just don't know what'll come up in the next 5-6 years.

I agree with you about K. Rool and his chances in the future, with the rate things are going for Donkey Kong now. We can hope that someone will make another great Donkey Kong Country game.

I can see Krystal (with her staff) being forgotten about in the future. But who knows where the Star Fox series is heading nowadays. I really hope they can fine tune the formula laid down in Assault and bring a lot more attention to the plot and characters as well, to at least make them seem more important and put the series on a nice track.

Ridley is Ridley. He hasn't really changed much in his role in the Metroid series over the years. I'm not exactly sure where the Prime series takes place in the Metroid chronology, but since that's over now, they'll either fill in some more holes or take off with the last game in chronological order.

F-Zero is still relatively under the radar, from what I'm seeing, but hopefully the series gets promoted better in the future. Also, I'm still not sure what exactly makes some people think that Black Shadow being in automatically = Ganondorf being uncloned. This is Sakurai we're talking about here.

On another note, Smash Daddy, you're 5150? No...no!!!!