[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Chief Mendez]

- Timber Island (Diddy Kong Racing); could be in the main field area with the waterfall and frogs hopping around in bg; Taj makes a cameo every so often, along with other racers a la Tails, Knuckles, Silver style.

I'm fully in support of anything involving Diddy Kong Racing, but when you consider that there aren't any other Donkey Kong--and hence no other Nintendo--characters in the game, it seems like it'd be a bit out of place...but maybe that's just me.

[YOSHI SERIES]
- Tall Tower (Yoshi's Story); to divert from the generic Yoshi's Island stages.

Holy freaking crap. This is awesome.

[LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES]
- Ocarina of Time Journey (or something of the like - also, not my original idea) - you start at the Temple of Time, and after fighting for a while, the Minuet of Forest plays and you warp to the Sacred Forest Meadow, then the Bolero of Fire plays and you warp to Death Mountain Crater, then the Serenade of Water to Lake Hylia, then Nocturne of Shadow to Kakariko Graveyard, then the Requiem of Spirit to the Desert Colossus, and finally the Prelude of Light plays and you warp back to the Temple of Time. This would be an excellent way to traverse throughout all of the core OoT areas besides Hyrule Castle.
- Great Sea (Wind Waker); You would start on the Pirate Ship, but then dock at Windfall Island, after fighting for a while, the camera would move back to the ship and you would set sail for Dragon Roost, Outset, and Forsaken Fortress. Basically, it's very similar to the Pirate Ship except you dock at different islands and fight there for a while.
- Clock Town (Majora's Mask); would take place in Central Clock Town with the Clock Tower in the near background. Like the Great Bay had, after playing for a while, the Moon would descend, but the Four Giants would stop it from collision.
- Hyrule Castle; Not the stage from SSB64, but a new one based off of the latest design at the time that SSB4 is made. Probably on the rooftops.

These are all absolutely awesome ideas...although I think Ocarina of Time is a bit outdated. I could see another WW stage, and definitely one from the next console Zelda, but...the N64's really gettin' on in years, y'know?

Mendez, when I said NO MORE SONIC, I meant NO KNUCKLES. NO TAILS. NO SHADOW. And if they have to add someone, NO EGGMAN. I also didn't mean remove Snake.

And when I said custom moveset, I only meant the four B attacks. Like maybe take a Mii and give it Mario's fireballs, Link's spin attack, Bowser's forward B and Pikachu's down B.

Of course all A attacks and the final smash would be set in stone, I'm not THAT crazy.

Oh. Well then I take back whatever I said about that stuff.

[MARIO STAGES]
Good Egg Galaxy (Super Mario Galaxy). I don't think gravity will be an issue.

It's not such an issue of Gravity as it is shape of the stage. You couldn't possibly expect to do a Galaxy stage as a flat plane--it'd have to be spherical.

Now, this is possible to do in 2D (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWSbR5Az2w0), but with 4 players, the above method won't work. And if you lock the camera in place, then there are unavoidable control issues, not to mention the disorientation you'd experience controlling an upside-down character.

Lost Woods (Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time). Still sticking with it. Think of the ideas that could come with it.

Such as?

Realgam Tower (Pokemon Colosseum). Same concept as the Pokemon Stadium stages.
Celadon City Gym (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Then why not just do "Pokemon Stadium 3"? Only hardcore Pokefreaks will know what Realgam Tower is, as (no offense) Pokemon Colloseum wasn't that great. And how would Celadon be any different from the Stadium? And for that matter, why Celdadon: a forgettable middling Gym from way back in '96?

Shadow Moses Island (Metal Gear Solid). Fight INSIDE the facility.

So then how would you get KO's? If it's inside, I mean, where do you get knocked out of? And speaking personally, the heliport is the most iconic area of Shadow Moses.

---

And I agree with everything Spire III has to say about the next Stage Builder. We also need to be able to assign more than one song to custom stages.

 

[Spire]

These are all absolutely awesome ideas...although I think Ocarina of Time is a bit outdated. I could see another WW stage, and definitely one from the next console Zelda, but...the N64's really gettin' on in years, y'know?

Well the thing is, these areas are still present in the Zelda games today so the Ocarina of Time Journey stage would not only be reminiscent of traveling from place to place in OoT, but also experiencing the diverse regions of Hyrule, all in one stage (technically, it would be six stages in one). Why branch away from Ocarina of Time when it is still regarded as "the revolution of Zelda", taking it to 3D and leaving such a strong mark on the millions of its players around the world? They payed tribute to oldschool Mario and DK fans by including stages resembling the original Mario Bros. and DK games. I don't think that Zelda should only be represented by its current appearance, but by the games that left their mark on the series. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask set the standards that all of the Zelda games made since have followed.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well the thing is, these areas are still present in the Zelda games today so the Ocarina of Time Journey stage would not only be reminiscent of traveling from place to place in OoT, but also experiencing the diverse regions of Hyrule, all in one stage (technically, it would be six stages in one). Why branch away from Ocarina of Time when it is still regarded as "the revolution of Zelda", taking it to 3D and leaving such a strong mark on the millions of its players around the world? They payed tribute to oldschool Mario and DK fans by including stages resembling the original Mario Bros. and DK games. I don't think that Zelda should only be represented by its current appearance, but by the games that left their mark on the series. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask set the standards that all of the Zelda games made since have followed.

I think the same way, but I'm also a realist, and history says that most likely, new stages will be derived from a franchise's most recent entries. The Zelda stages in Brawl are from the latest Zelda games. I'm not saying it won't happen--I really do love the idea, but...

And come on--if you play the warp songs from OoT, and the stage shifts to the corresponding area...it's pretty clear that you're taking the idea from a specific game.

Finally, Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong are around 25 years old. That's "oldschool". Ocarina is..."junior high", if you catch my drift.

 

[Spire]

I think the same way, but I'm also a realist, and history says that most likely, new stages will be derived from a franchise's most recent entries. The Zelda stages in Brawl are from the latest Zelda games. I'm not saying it won't happen--I really do love the idea, but...

And come on--if you play the warp songs from OoT, and the stage shifts to the corresponding area...it's pretty clear that you're taking the idea from a specific game.

Finally, Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong are around 25 years old. That's "oldschool". Ocarina is..."junior high", if you catch my drift.

Yeah yeah, I completely understand. Just trying to support what I love

 

[majora_787]

Junior high is a bit...not so much. I'd say more like freshman. StarFox is being pretty frickin junior high at the moment, though.

Anyway, the tall tower idea is awesome. That was one of my favorite stages, especially with leaf surfing.

 

[DekuBoy]

Skull Kid for SSB4!
He's been a recurring character, a interesting villain and he has a great backstory.
He could represent the golden age of Zelda from the N64, and he has no real competition.
Vaati: recurring character but is mainly Ganons puppet and not the real villain (except Minish Cap)

Midna: Only in one Zelda game and she's not coming back.

Tingle: only AT material.

Linebeck: ???

 

[majora_787]

If they don't add a Majora's Mask or Lost Woods representation or whatever, I doubt we'll see skull kid.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Skull Kid for SSB4!
He's been a recurring character, a interesting villain and he has a great backstory.
He could represent the golden age of Zelda from the N64, and he has no real competition.

Recurring what now? ...No, I'm pretty sure he was just in Majora's Mask. Technically there are other Skull Kids, but they're incredibly minor enemies/obstacles. As for the whole "Golden Age" thing, see my previous post:

I think the same way, but I'm also a realist, and history says that most likely, new stages will be derived from a franchise's most recent entries. The Zelda stages in Brawl are from the latest Zelda games. I'm not saying it won't happen--I really do love the idea, but...

This definitely applies to characters, as well. If anything, moreso than the stage aspect.

Vaati: recurring character but is mainly Ganons puppet and not the real villain (except Minish Cap)

He's only "Ganon's puppet" in Four Swords Adventures. In Minish Cap and Four Swords, he's his own villain. Vaati for SSB4.

Tingle: only AT material.

Poppycock. Tingle for SSB4.

Linebeck: ???

Oh come on. Phantom Hourglass blew chunks, and despite Linebeck's position as the best character in the game, he doesn't really have any applicable skills for Smash Bros.

 

[Digimonkey]

i think if an explosive destroys the final smash... everyone dies!!!

 

[Demon_Parasite]

I really think Tom Nook should be a character. The Animal Crossing representation in this game is just a kick in the face. We get an AC stage, item, song section, and assist trophy. Why do we get everything but a character? Some people say that an AC rep wouldn't fit in, but when you think about it, you wouldn't expect a lot of characters to be fighting. Peach, Game and Watch, Zelda, and R.O.B., to name a few. It could work. He has incredible moveset potential, with the various tools and items in the game.

 

[biohazard930]

I really think Tom Nook should be a character. The Animal Crossing representation in this game is just a kick in the face. We get an AC stage, item, song section, and assist trophy. Why do we get everything but a character? Some people say that an AC rep wouldn't fit in, but when you think about it, you wouldn't expect a lot of characters to be fighting. Peach, Game and Watch, Zelda, and R.O.B., to name a few. It could work. He has incredible moveset potential, with the various tools and items in the game.

I disagree, though correct me if I err on anything.

First, the characters you mentioned. From the top of my head, I know that Peach at least has a bit of fighting precedence from Mario Bros. 2. As far as I konw, Zelda, G&W, and certainly ROB, at least have no figthing precedent at all. Well, as for Zelda, she's always entrenched in Link and Ganondorf's conficts, so it's not too bad of a strech.

Unless I'm wrong, the problem I view for Animal Crossing is that the prominent characters have a precedent for not fighting, but being docile. That's what would make them exceedingly odd.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Unless I'm wrong, the problem I view for Animal Crossing is that the prominent characters have a precedent for not fighting, but being docile. That's what would make them exceedingly odd.

Ye think yer bad
Some kind o' wreslin' lad
Ye've got guts but yer nuts
Don't make me mad

With my turtle-tough shell
I'll ring yer bell
Black yer eye, make ye cry
And say farewell

 

[zrky]

Im not sure if it's been said, but I wish they would put back a swarm pokemon (beedrill) It doesnt have to be beedrill specifically, but it was very effective unlike munchlax who is just annoying.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Im not sure if it's been said, but I wish they would put back a swarm pokemon (beedrill) It doesnt have to be beedrill specifically, but it was very effective unlike munchlax who is just annoying.

I second this.

 

[Spire]

Recurring what now? ...No, I'm pretty sure he was just in Majora's Mask. Technically there are other Skull Kids, but they're incredibly minor enemies/obstacles. As for the whole "Golden Age" thing, see my previous post:

This definitely applies to characters, as well. If anything, moreso than the stage aspect.

He's only "Ganon's puppet" in Four Swords Adventures. In Minish Cap and Four Swords, he's his own villain. Vaati for SSB4.

Poppycock. Tingle for SSB4.

Oh come on. Phantom Hourglass blew chunks, and despite Linebeck's position as the best character in the game, he doesn't really have any applicable skills for Smash Bros.

Vaati was a villain in a few spin-off Zelda games. They are not relevant to the timeline. He is filler and should NOT make it into Smash Bros (maybe as a trophy).

Tingle should not have even been an AT.

Think of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask this way... in OoT, Link was transported 7 years into the future to stop Ganon. And so he did. He did not kill Ganon, but he crippled him so the Sages could banish him to the "Twilight Realm", and hence we have Twilight Princess. Zelda then sent Link back to his own time so that he could live the years that were taken from him. That establishes the "Adult Link" line, where Link is now absent from Hyrule, and Ganon is banished. Now, the "Kid Link" starts here. Upon return to being a child, Navi leaves Link because she knows he will go looking for her. Her destiny is to lead him to Termina, in which she eventually does. So, Link goes to Termina. This means that there is no hero in Hyrule anymore, and Ganon comes and takes over it. Because there is no Hyrule, the Goddesses flood it, and hence we have Wind Waker. Now, in Termina - a land that is the complete counterpart to Hyrule and in a sense, just as important - Link must fend off against a new threat - one much more terrible. Majora, and his possessed puppet, Skull Kid. After Majora's Mask, Link never returns to Hyrule. Skull Kid and Majora are the last foes that the Hero of Time ever fights off. They are extremely important. He saved Hyrule, he saved Termina; represent both.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Then why not just do "Pokemon Stadium 3"? Only hardcore Pokefreaks will know what Realgam Tower is, as (no offense) Pokemon Colloseum wasn't that great. And how would Celadon be any different from the Stadium? And for that matter, why Celdadon: a forgettable middling Gym from way back in '96?

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no hardcore Pokefan), but there were two games for the N64, Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2. Both of them were great sucessors for that system, and gamers wanted another installment on the GC. Pokemon Colloseum was released instead of "Pokemon Stadium 3". Though vastly different, the game still had quite some creadablility. Nintendo even made a sequal, Pokemon Collosium XD: Gale of Darkness. (No way Pokemon Rescue Team or whatever deserves representation. No, just no!)

Although Pokemon Collosium's are only a small fragment of the Pokemon series as a whole, I think it deserves some representation, plus, it had some good music. I can't wait to clash (Super Smash Bros Clash FTW) on a stage playing Miror B.'s theme (increadably wacky fiesta music from Collosium).

As far as the stage for representation, I was thinking more of the lines of Outskirt Sands or Pyrite Town, not an actual collosiuim. But if it were to be a collosium, much like Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2 in Smash, it would be set in the Underground (Underground Collosium) or Pyrite Collosium (preferably).

{I might be enticed to create a stage and music based off of this}

 

[majora_787]

If they have to replace mewtwo because he's old, they're not adding beedrill.
And also, the Skull Kid was in Twilight Princess. But all he did in either game was blow a horn. He never really even had a backstroy, other than he lived in the woods and knew how to go between Hyrule and Termina.

 

[twiblets]

cloud and sepiroth for 3rd parties. maybe as alt costumes of each other?

 

[Spire]

cloud and sepiroth for 3rd parties. maybe as alt costumes of each other?

Wrong. Try again.

 

[meresilence0]

KumaOso, Melee was no fluke. If it was, than it wouldn't be the bestselling GC game. Anyhow, the stage discussion is almost pointless. Sure, they're good ideas tying in to a game's main moments, but the stages are generally made with crap no one expected. The end.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I disagree, though correct me if I err on anything.

First, the characters you mentioned. From the top of my head, I know that Peach at least has a bit of fighting precedence from Mario Bros. 2. As far as I konw, Zelda, G&W, and certainly ROB, at least have no figthing precedent at all. Well, as for Zelda, she's always entrenched in Link and Ganondorf's conficts, so it's not too bad of a strech.

Unless I'm wrong, the problem I view for Animal Crossing is that the prominent characters have a precedent for not fighting, but being docile. That's what would make them exceedingly odd.

I don't know what Sakurai was thinking here. I know that no one in Animal Crossing fights, but since when did ANYTHING in Smash Bros make sense? Animal Crossing should definitely be repped.

As for other series/characters I'd like to see:

A Golden Sun Character: A GS game is rumored to come out some time in the future, so a character from that series might transition over instead of Isaac. Either way, this character would be neat with a variety of Psynergy moves, and possibly special moves revolving around a set of Djinn that could be switched out.

An AW Character: Strategy game characters have to have either moves made up for them, or have a really unique moveset. Marth is an example of one, Olimar is an example of the other. The best thing for an AW rep would be to have some moves focused on their weapon of choice (crossbow for Sami, sniper for Grit, brute force for Max, wrench for Andy e.c.t) and the ability to purchase units. This would truly represent the AW series in grand style.

Custom Robo character: While the series is not extremely popular (still having a decent hardcore fanbase), a Robo would fit Smash extremely well! The specials are no brainers, obviously being the bomb, pod, gun, and dash. The sizing would have to be altered, but that shouldn't really be a true issue.

Tingle: The Zelda series has had many recurring characters, but none have been as mindblowingly queer as this guy. In all honesty, Tingle is so WTF, and can have a very unique moveset, excluding him would be a missed opportunity. Balloons for recovery, a rupee toss, a koo-loo-limpah, and the Tingle Tuner can all be part of his special moveset!

9-Volt: Now, why would I want the Wario Series to have another character? Well, I am very fond of the Wario Ware series, I believe 9-volt is a perfect candidate just because he's tied with classic Nintendo. He could use his NES controller to bring up some 8-bit (or 16-bit) minions to fight for him. Balloon fighter as recovery, Takamaru for some sword swinging action, Excitebikers to swarm the stage, Lip to dump her garbage, Little Mac, Sukapon and the Clu-Clu guy for Smashes. A dream character for all old-school gamers!

 

[Big-Cat]

KumaOso, Melee was no fluke. If it was, than it wouldn't be the bestselling GC game. Anyhow, the stage discussion is almost pointless. Sure, they're good ideas tying in to a game's main moments, but the stages are generally made with crap no one expected. The end.

By fluke, I was referring to all the techs, ATs, etc. that were found in Melee and were later exploited in tournament play and made the game deeper.

 

[tedward2000]

I haven't read all the posts. But Im not sure this character idea has been said.

-Mario and Luigi, as one character. Based from the Mario and Luigi, Superstar Saga.

It would be like the ice climbers, but unlike only playing as one ice climbers the entire match. You would be able to switch the position of Mario and Luigi (Down-B).
Who ever is in front, the attacks would be based off of them. For example, if mario is in front, his B, would be a fire ball. where as luigi's B would lightning.
And just like the game, their jumps would be effected by who's in front. Both would have their hammers as well.
Final Smash- Following the who's in front deal. Mario's final smash would be different then luigi's. And it would be one of the bro powers from the game.
-t2

 

[Yuna]

KumaOso, Melee was no fluke. If it was, than it wouldn't be the bestselling GC game. Anyhow, the stage discussion is almost pointless. Sure, they're good ideas tying in to a game's main moments, but the stages are generally made with crap no one expected. The end.

Why can't it be a fluke?

1.an accidental advantage; stroke of good luck: He got the job by a fluke. 2.an accident or chance happening. 3.an accidentally successful stroke, as in billiards.
It's quite possible for it to be a fluke and a best-selling GC-game. They made a game. It happened to be very deep, most of it unintentionally. Without or without the depth, it would probably still be a best-seller because it's one of the ultimate fanservice games of the PS2-GC-XBOX generation.

 

[tedward2000]

By fluke, I was referring to all the techs, ATs, etc. that were found in Melee and were later exploited in tournament play and made the game deeper.

And if AT's where found in brawl, would Brawl become the Wii's best seller?
No. For two reasons.
1. Brawl is still young, if its the best seller is long from being told.
2. Theres more competition with other wii games, then there was with melee.

For all we know, Mario Kart Wii could be the best seller. (look at how well it is doing in Japan)

Melee did so well, is not just because of its depth. But it appealed to so many people of all ages. College students could play tournaments with it. Little 6 year old kids could play it. They are all buyers, and it paid off. The finding of AT's made it even more appealing. Flukes helped, but it wasn't its reason of greatness.
-t2

 

[SmashBro99]

-Knuckles/King K.Rool/Krystal and Isaac (if more Golden Sun games come out that is...) playable. Oh and Waluigi!

-Better stage builder with more options.

-Better online play (Rankings, and less lag, I could care less about voice chat.)

-Better story mode, SSE was "ok", but the ending sucked and Sonic/Wolf/Jiggly/TLink not having a bigger role was stupid.

-KONGO ****ING JUNGLE FROM SB64 I WANT IT BACK =\

 

[SirKibble]

I haven't read all the posts. But Im not sure this character idea has been said.

-Mario and Luigi, as one character. Based from the Mario and Luigi, Superstar Saga.

It would be like the ice climbers, but unlike only playing as one ice climbers the entire match. You would be able to switch the position of Mario and Luigi (Down-B).
Who ever is in front, the attacks would be based off of them. For example, if mario is in front, his B, would be a fire ball. where as luigi's B would lightning.
And just like the game, their jumps would be effected by who's in front. Both would have their hammers as well.
Final Smash- Following the who's in front deal. Mario's final smash would be different then luigi's. And it would be one of the bro powers from the game.
-t2

While I don't think this idea would work exactly, you should wait and see my idea for Baby Mario & Baby Luigi when I submit it in the "Make Your Move 2.0" thread. I think they'd work well as a combo character, and I'm using a couple things from Superstar Saga.

 

[tedward2000]

While I don't think this idea would work exactly, you should wait and see my idea for Baby Mario & Baby Luigi when I submit it in the "Make Your Move 2.0" thread. I think they'd work well as a combo character, and I'm using a couple things from Superstar Saga.

Baby Mario and Luigi weren't in Superstar Saga. But I catch your drift.
How would the baby's work better then the older versions?
-t2

 

[SirKibble]

Baby Mario and Luigi weren't in Superstar Saga. But I catch your drift.
How would the baby's work better then the older versions?
-t2

Yeah, I know they weren't. My point is, with Mario and Luigi already as characters, it doesn't really make sense to make a second version of them. I think if Superstar Saga moves are to be used, it might as well be Baby M&L using them, since I think they'd work well as a team anyway. The only real reason that the babies work better is because Mario and Luigi are already separate playable characters. Make sense?

 

[tedward2000]

Yeah, I know they weren't. My point is, with Mario and Luigi already as characters, it doesn't really make sense to make a second version of them. I think if Superstar Saga moves are to be used, it might as well be Baby M&L using them, since I think they'd work well as a team anyway. The only real reason that the babies work better is because Mario and Luigi are already separate playable characters. Make sense?

Yea true. But, it could a "toon" version of Mario and Luigi. Like Link and Toon link.

I didn't play Partners in Time, so I don't know any of the Baby Bro's attacks. But on the babys, their attacks should stay within their own game.
-t2

 

[Vulcan55]

I haven't read all the posts. But Im not sure this character idea has been said.

-Mario and Luigi, as one character. Based from the Mario and Luigi, Superstar Saga.

It would be like the ice climbers, but unlike only playing as one ice climbers the entire match. You would be able to switch the position of Mario and Luigi (Down-B).
Who ever is in front, the attacks would be based off of them. For example, if mario is in front, his B, would be a fire ball. where as luigi's B would lightning.
And just like the game, their jumps would be effected by who's in front. Both would have their hammers as well.
Final Smash- Following the who's in front deal. Mario's final smash would be different then luigi's. And it would be one of the bro powers from the game.
-t2

I had an idea almost exactly like that, and planned on making a full-out moveset in the make your move thread.

 

[SirKibble]

Yea true. But, it could a "toon" version of Mario and Luigi. Like Link and Toon link.

I didn't play Partners in Time, so I don't know any of the Baby Bro's attacks. But on the babys, their attacks should stay within their own game.
-t2

I didn't ever play Partners in Time either, I just don't think a second version of Mario and Luigi is really necessary. I dunno, just doesn't seem right to me. Oh, well, to each his own.

 

[tedward2000]

I had an idea almost exactly like that, and planned on making a full-out moveset in the make your move thread.

The search the being annoying right now.
where is this "make you move2.0" thread?
thanks
-t2

 

[SirKibble]

The search the being annoying right now.
where is this "make you move2.0" thread?
thanks
-t2

Right here.

You're welcome.

 

[PKJesse]

We need Megaman.

And that awesome green Bunny that was on the NES.

Bucky O' Hare, I think.

OH YEAH!!!

 

[Spire]

Yea true. But, it could a "toon" version of Mario and Luigi. Like Link and Toon link.

The only "toon" Mario characters are their Paper forms. We shouldn't be making up forms for how characters appear just because they've been done for others. Toon Link looks the way he does because of Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass.

 

[OmegaXXII]

^^props for saying you want Megaman because we NEED him ^_^

as for Bucky well.. I guess but what kind of moves would he have?

as for Mario & Luigi idea as a Duo I say NO!, NO!!, and NO!!!!!!!, the reason is because it just wouldn't make sense to make them like that since they've already been seperate for 3 games already and we don't need to make them a duop in a 4th because that would ruin then, if they have to be in a Duo i'd say it should be Baby Mario & Luigi, but NOT regular Mario & Luigi, get it?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Vaati was a villain in a few spin-off Zelda games. They are not relevant to the timeline. He is filler and should NOT make it into Smash Bros (maybe as a trophy).

Tingle should not have even been an AT.

Think of Skull Kid and Majora's Mask this way... in OoT, Link was transported 7 years into the future to stop Ganon. And so he did. He did not kill Ganon, but he crippled him so the Sages could banish him to the "Twilight Realm", and hence we have Twilight Princess. Zelda then sent Link back to his own time so that he could live the years that were taken from him. That establishes the "Adult Link" line, where Link is now absent from Hyrule, and Ganon is banished. Now, the "Kid Link" starts here. Upon return to being a child, Navi leaves Link because she knows he will go looking for her. Her destiny is to lead him to Termina, in which she eventually does. So, Link goes to Termina. This means that there is no hero in Hyrule anymore, and Ganon comes and takes over it. Because there is no Hyrule, the Goddesses flood it, and hence we have Wind Waker. Now, in Termina - a land that is the complete counterpart to Hyrule and in a sense, just as important - Link must fend off against a new threat - one much more terrible. Majora, and his possessed puppet, Skull Kid. After Majora's Mask, Link never returns to Hyrule. Skull Kid and Majora are the last foes that the Hero of Time ever fights off. They are extremely important. He saved Hyrule, he saved Termina; represent both.

The only Zelda game you can reasonably call a "spin-off" is Link's Crossbow Training, and maybe the CD-i games (though I choose to just pretend they don't exist). What would make the Four Sword games and Minish Cap spin-offs, anyway? So yeah, Vaati's important--more important than Skull Kid, if only for the fact that he's more ubiquitous.

Now then--do not try to reason this out with a "timeline". It's Zelda, not Xenosaga. What tiny shreds of overall, game-crossing plot are present in the Zelda franchise have absolutely no purpose whatoever besides eliciting a few chills from diehard fanboys. That has absolutely no bearing on how important any given character is to the franchise.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm no hardcore Pokefan), but there were two games for the N64, Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2. Both of them were great sucessors for that system, and gamers wanted another installment on the GC. Pokemon Colloseum was released instead of "Pokemon Stadium 3". Though vastly different, the game still had quite some creadablility. Nintendo even made a sequal, Pokemon Collosium XD: Gale of Darkness. (No way Pokemon Rescue Team or whatever deserves representation. No, just no!)

Reasons why Pokemon Coliseum is vastly inferior to Pokemon Stadium:

-No minigames.
-Crappy RPG thrown in to cover up disturbing lack of minigames.
-Is a 3D Pokemon RPG wherein you can't catch them all--WHAT THE F*CK NINTENDO!?
-No minigames.
-The whole "look at you Pokemon in 3D!" novelty has worn off since the N64 days.
-No minigames.

So I'm biased, big whoop--a big issue with pulling stuff from Coliseum (or really, any game that's not a normal PKMN RPG) is that there's no way anything you'd use would be as iconic as something from said main RPGs. And, in Coliseum's case, even less that could make the stage innovative and distinct--what signature elements of that game could be translated to Brawl that aren't already covered by the main RPGs?

KumaOso, Melee was no fluke. If it was, than it wouldn't be the bestselling GC game. Anyhow, the stage discussion is almost pointless. Sure, they're good ideas tying in to a game's main moments, but the stages are generally made with crap no one expected. The end.

I think he meant how horribly exploitable a few certain glitches turned out to be. You're kidding yourself if you think Melee sold so well because of how cool wavedashing was.

P.S. Okay, way off topic here, but Rhubarbo mentioning 9 Volt made me remember this: ever try using the "random" naming option when making a custom stage in Brawl? There are some really...interesting outcomes. "VAATI", "ZANT", "SAMI", "GRIT", "9VOLT", "TAKA", "OCELOT" "ALASTOR", "LIP", "MEW2", "LEON", "SLIPPY", "VAMP", "XCITE", "MONA", "SOREN", "GREIL", and even "AVERIL" are all really obscure (to varying degrees--who knows what "Averil" means in Nintendo-land?) references to characters not in the game...

 

[neji32]

Not gonna' happen. The Wii already has a huge issue with storage space, and even if they do fix it, consider this: Brawl's already the largest Wii game (double-layered DVD, 128(?) blocks for a save you can't move, and--for a 1st party Nintendo game--huge load times), and if you mix that element with Nintendo's wishy-washy online, an idea like that is all but impossible. Maybe on Wii2 or something.

Meta's...fine as he is, isn't he? Did I miss the boat here, or something? I thought he was a finely-tuned character...

Snake's staying. He's a totally original character, his creator's a friend of Sakurai (though disregard that assuming Sakurai isn't in on SSB4), and plus--HE'S SOLID F***ING SNAKE.

Also, you spelled 'Krystal' wrong. And your moveset for Tails is absolutely terrible.

Yes, because we all know how often Mario spews giant tornados of fire, or all the times in her games Samus fires lazers twice the size of her entire body.

Link's FS is probably the coolest one in the game (after Jiggs, of course).

Sonic'll stay in, barring any corporate meltdowns between now and ~whenever. To think otherwise is fooling yourself. Though you're not alone--I'm not a huge fan of Sonic myself, but hey...

As for Snake...I really don't get the hate for the guy here. Seriously, he may be broken, but he's an awesome videogame character, which counts for more than playability in Smash Bros. And if he's not included, there's no way any other MGS character would be (although I'd explode with fanboyish happiness if Snake was cut and replaced with Raiden).

Third party characters are going to be a rarity. One would think that once the decision was made to allow it, the floodgates would be thrown open, right? Megaman? Rayman? Geno? Belmont? Optimus Prime? Sure, bring em' on, right? Obviously not. We got two, and we're lucky at that--Snake was essentially a personal favor to a friend, and Sonic was only there because of absolutely overwhelming fan demand.
I wouldn't say no to another two, maybe three, third-parties, but don't get your hopes up. (By the way, why is Castlevania a "random slaughter" game? Same for RE...and yeah, Killer Instinct? And are there any "random slaughter" characters in Brawl already?)

Custom characters are a bad idea. At least as far as move-customization goes. Appearances, maybe: like a SF or GG-esque color changer. But a moveset-creator would completely blow away any shred of balance the game might have.

I have no idea what "super AI" means.

And on a final note, downloadable characters are a pipe dream, at best. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I reaaaaaaally don't see it coming to be...

F-ZERO will have more reps. Definitely. Samurai Goro's already halfway there, and Black Shadow's the perfect guy to take over Ganon's to-be-discarded moveset!

And Leon is awesome, but I think Krystal should get in before him. He'd be a good Falco for Wolf, though.

I don't know about you, but I only enjoyed Adventure Mode once, which was when I first went through it. I only played it 25 more times so I could collect the other trophies.

SSE, on the other hand, has the whole Trophy Stand collection thing going for it. Which isn't really a good thing, as I really, REALLY hate playing those stages on Intense, but it's a better incentive to go back into it than Melee had.

Im typing on a wii give me a break. You dont have to insult me just cause its annoying typeing on a wii. Snake is not nintendo and his creator had to beg just to be on brawl. TAKE OUT SNAKE

 

[OmegaXXII]

Snake is not nintendo and his creator had to beg just to be on brawl. TAKE OUT SNAKE

Correction, Snake ORIGINATED from Nintendo therefore isn't fully a 3rd party character, and c'mon just because you don't like Snake doesn't mean he has to be out, if you don't like him, then simply don't choose him, and DEAL WITH IT that he's in