[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

I just feel like saying this, so don't think I'm spamming or anything.

Things I'd like to see:

1. Masterpieces and Chronicles cut.
I just don't think these are necessary. No one really looks at these or play them much.

2. Take away the RPG power-up system in stickers.
Stickers can stay, but the power up thing isn't needed.

3. Bring back Mewtwo.
Despite that he could potentially make the Pokemon series have the most reps, his demand for his return disregards this, imo.

4. Alternate characters.
Basically, these are characters that exist as costumes under other characters. For example, we actually have Daisy has a Peach alt. She has her own voice clips and such, but she fights exactly like Peach. With this in mind, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu become alts. of Mario, Marth, and Pikachu respectively. Therefore, we have every character that was ever in Smash except Young Link who basically became Toon Link. Also, this can potentially solve the cloning issue easily.

5. Short hop button.
Considering how this ability is very deadly in the right hands, I think that one of the jump buttons should become a short hop button. The double jumps on this and the regular button, however, act the same so we don't have people accidentally dying accidentally like this.

6. More diverse range of trophies.
Despite that the trophies in Brawl look nice, almost all of them are rips from other games. Not only is this lazy, but it only shows the recent Nintendo stuff, not the stuff from the NES, SNES, and N64 eras.

7. For the next Adventure Mode.
a. Take place in the actual Nintendo worlds along with Nintendo enemies.
Easily, this was the SSE's biggest flaw. The entire setting and enemies make no sense. I'd like to fight Space Pirates in Norfair, hippies in Onett, dodongos in the Fire Temple, and more.
I don't mind the addition of original enemies as well as it kinda creates a KH feel, but in a good way.

b. Include dialog.
This is going to have to require careful execution. The only characters that don't talk on a normal basis are Mario, Luigi (excluding the RPGs), DK, Bowser (somewhat), Diddy, and the Zelda characters (unless they finally go to vocal dialog). For all but the Zelda characters, they can communicate in charades. The Zelda characters are going to have be done very carefully unless they speak Hylian and there's no language barrier.

8. No random tripping.
Nothing more needs to be said.

9. Deliberately include some advanced techniques.
Again, nothing needs to be said other than that a person can take or leave them.

10. More appropriate movesets.
You've seen me rant about this before, but some characters don't have movesets true to them (minus the ones that needed an original moveset). Give Samus the ice beam, DK his rolling attack, Ness and Lucas at least two of their own PSI each, Peach emotional attacks, Ganondorf HIS SWORD OR TRIDENT, and a few others.

11. More balance.
I know perfect balance is impossible, but characters like Meta Knight shouldn't have an easy dominance over characters.

12. Alternate costumes.
Instead of just the generic color swaps, include costumes the characters have worn before like Dry Bones Bowser and Pajama Ness.

13. Make Classic Mode random again.
It gets boring when you can usually know what character you're fighting next.

14. Make Break the Targets personal again and bring back board the platforms.
'nuff said.

15. Give us the option to send pictures and videos to our computers.
I think everyone would simply love this. While we're at it, we should be able to adjust the camera to any angle we want and that version of the replay can be sent. This can make machinimas have a much higher video quality.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Mario New Costume(waluigi)
Luigi New costume(Wario)

I'm not going to elaborate on these. It's very obvious why they're messed up.

Toon Zelda*flameshield*
Toon Sheik*flameshield*
Toon Ganondorf*flameshield*

The only reason Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik is a slight possibility is because of the Forbidden 7. But a Toon Ganondorf (while being completely awesome) would be unnecessary overkill. Also his character model (with long, flowing robes and two swords) doesn't lend itself to a clone 'set. So regular Ganon'd have to get a new moveset that fit both of them.

...Though maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Galaxy was perfectly balanced in my book. It had its easy moments, but it also had those **** hard challenges that kept you retrying and retrying.

I got all 121 stars within two weeks of owning the game, and the only levels I really had issues with were the ones where you had to use the Wiimote to move (Manta surfing and the Mini-golf stages, specifically).

On the other hand, it took me several months to even come close to all 120 in Sunshine. Only reccently have I gone back and finished up the four or five levels I couldn't complete (DARN YOU FLUFF FESTIVAL!).

Galaxy was more enjoyable, certainly...but still not nearly as hard as I was expecting (and hoping) it to be.

Personally, I just need Travis Touchdown as a PC , an Assist trophy or as a trophy. That guy is simply too awesome.

Probably an AT. I'd put him on the same level as Saki, so unless that character magically becomes an actual fighter, that's probably all Travis can hope for.

Though he wouldn't be as cool in Smash Bros...

Look at Melee's opening then tell me Ridley wouldn't fit.

DON'T DO IT! IT'S A TRAP!!

5. Short hop button.
Considering how this ability is very deadly in the right hands, I think that one of the jump buttons should become a short hop button. The double jumps on this and the regular button, however, act the same so we don't have people accidentally dying accidentally like this.

6. More diverse range of trophies.
Despite that the trophies in Brawl look nice, almost all of them are rips from other games. Not only is this lazy, but it only shows the recent Nintendo stuff, not the stuff from the NES, SNES, and N64 eras.

The SH button idea seems...kind of random. I mean, do people who use Short Hops regularly have issues using the ability? I don't think so. Also, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I use both X and Y to jump--Y after a B move and X after an A attack. So separating them would mess with me to no end.

And the trophies: they're not ripped from other games. Maybe the 2D sprite ones, and obviously the ones of the characters themselves are...but the devs have to make new 3D models for each trophy. Which can take a lot of time. Frankly, I find it amazing that we get as many as we do.

I would enjoy having no limit on number of trophies in Diorama mode (I mean, you can see all of them at once in Collection mode, right?), but that's about the only thing I'd change.

 

[kr3wman]

Probably an AT. I'd put him on the same level as Saki, so unless that character magically becomes an actual fighter, that's probably all Travis can hope for.

Though he wouldn't be as cool in Smash Bros...

If he could say one of the Dark Side quotes when he would spawns, it would give SSB4 an automatic 11/10 for me.

 

[Big-Cat]

And the trophies: they're not ripped from other games. Maybe the 2D sprite ones, and obviously the ones of the characters themselves are...but the devs have to make new 3D models for each trophy. Which can take a lot of time. Frankly, I find it amazing that we get as many as we do.

Actually, Sakurai mentioned in the Iwata asks that a number of them were direct rips from other games. The Zelda trophies and Mario trophies are good examples.

 

[kr3wman]

Actually, Sakurai mentioned in the Iwata asks that a number of them were direct rips from other games. The Zelda trophies and Mario trophies are good examples.

True, but looking at the tons and tons of Pokemon trophies, those had to be custom made for Brawl.

 

[MasterWarlord]

The two most recently made character lists are too much fail to even bother being corrected. They're completely and utterly hopeless.

About the Magikarp thing, I was campaiging for Magikarp to replace Goldeen in the early days of the dojo, but sadly Goldeen returned. Some people were against me and said that it should be Feebas due to it being from a new gen, but I'm highly against this as Feebas can actually get TMs and what not. Magikarp SYMBOLIZES crap.

The pokeballs were far too screwed in Brawl. Raikou, Articuno and Zapdos didn't return for whatever reason, leaving us with no electric legendary. We get the weak ones far too commonly, there's little motivation to get a pokeball now as oppossed to the powerful ones that came out of it in melee. There needs to be AT LEAST a 15% or so chance that whenever you open a Pokeball you get a legend this time around, I've only seen Kyogre once in all my playing of Brawl and have yet to see Manaphy.

 

[Big-Cat]

True, but looking at the tons and tons of Pokemon trophies, those had to be custom made for Brawl.

I don't think so. Some of them may have been (doesn't expplain why Mewtwo looks like crap), but some were probably ripped from the Colosseum games.

 

[Chief Mendez]

If he could say one of the Dark Side quotes when he would spawns, it would give SSB4 an automatic 11/10 for me.

STRAWBERRY ON THE SHORTCAKE *everyone dies*

And on the subject of trophies: even if a lot of them were rips...I don't see what the big deal about it is. I mean, in most of those games, you almost never get the chance to just sit and look at a character's model for as long as you want. Which for me as an artist, is really, really handy.

EDIT - I find the Pokeballs and Assist Trophies in Brawl to be really well balanced. Like it should be: the Legendaries/powerful ATs (Lyn, Isaac, Shadow) come along only so often that you know they're there, but since they're so amazingly useful, they show up rarely. And so most of the time you get normal Pokemon and ATs.

Not only does this make it less of a "get the Pokeball get a KO" type of system, but it also makes the good Pokemon even more awesome when you get one. Few things in Brawl feel better than throwing an enemy into the Hyper Beam from the Deoxys you just got.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

The two most recently made character lists are too much fail to even bother being corrected. They're completely and utterly hopeless.

About the Magikarp thing, I was campaiging for Magikarp to replace Goldeen in the early days of the dojo, but sadly Goldeen returned. Some people were against me and said that it should be Feebas due to it being from a new gen, but I'm highly against this as Feebas can actually get TMs and what not. Magikarp SYMBOLIZES crap.

The pokeballs were far too screwed in Brawl. Raikou, Articuno and Zapdos didn't return for whatever reason, leaving us with no electric legendary. We get the weak ones far too commonly, there's little motivation to get a pokeball now as oppossed to the powerful ones that came out of it in melee. There needs to be AT LEAST a 15% or so chance that whenever you open a Pokeball you get a legend this time around, I've only seen Kyogre once in all my playing of Brawl and have yet to see Manaphy.

I agree!

I'd rather have the computer drop what it's doing and rush for an uber pokemon than have the pokeball pose no threat whatsoever!

 

[Big-Cat]

STRAWBERRY ON THE SHORTCAKE *everyone dies*

And on the subject of trophies: even if a lot of them were rips...I don't see what the big deal about it is. I mean, in most of those games, you almost never get the chance to just sit and look at a character's model for as long as you want. Which for me as an artist, is really, really handy.

You can do the same thing by looking for the rips online. Still, despite this, the trophies shouldn't be from predominately new games.

 

[binki4]

i know the characters will be in the next smash bros game in the future they will be kanto trainer will be replace by shinnoh trainer and the new lord of fire emblem that will replace ike because he was my favorite character i hope they make the newest fire emblem game on wii but what about the mother series guess not because they won,t be developed for mother 4 on ds or even a wii because they won't have mother characters like lucas from mother 3 and ness from mother 2 know as earthbound but what about masked man also know as claus masked man should had been in brawl for now i don't know what the future is about the mother series but f-zero series rick wheller should had been in sakurai poll for now ti be confrimed in brawl we where hoping for rick wheller in the next super smash bros game. bad news for metroid series the retro studio company is no longer making wii and ds metroid games
hoping from japan making new metroid games there are hard news for the future super smash bros game that lucario will replacing by the new popular fighting pchyctic pokemon. but for last will there be the 4 smash bros game for the future will include new third-party characters like megaman will be in the next smash bros game like snake and sonic was in brawl but due to megaman not in brawl it means that they still upset about biohazard 4 also know as resident evil 4 allowing to make it for gamecube that what they did to snake because it was not a time to confrimed snake for melee but also snake final game was metal gear solid 4 guns of the patriots and they will replace solid snake with old snake on the 4th smash bros game and i hope for this desicion will work the the future that skaurai will had plans about the 4th game of smash bros.

 

[Agi]

Vivian

~ “I'm... I'm sorry Sis. This Mario is the only person who's ever been kind to me...”​

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Mini-Mechanic: Shadow's Reach

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filler

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Neutral Special ~ Veil

With little starting lag, Vivian sinks quickly down into the ground, with an eerie sound effect. All that remains of her is the dark spot on the ground where she once stood. Essentially, she's invulnerable, as no attacks will be able to reach her. However, she can't exactly get around very well herself in this state. Once three seconds pass (or you press B again) she'll pop back up into the world of the living, and be vulnerable to attack for a short time, about a quarter second.

So, not exactly the most useful of attacks. It's a good defense against projectile spammers (for a time) and useful for waiting out a "transformation" Final Smash, and that's seemingly it. However, you have access to two of your moves, your UTilt and Up Special, while you're in the shadows, neither of which will be particularly useful unless you've already set up a Shadow Pool. Still, this can be a fun move to use to run circles around your opponent, despite your poor speed. If your foe is particularly predictable, you can even use this to mess up their approaches and counterattack.​

Side Special ~ Creeping Darkness

The animation for this move is the same as the one above, a quick wave of the finger. The effect is quite a bit different this time around, however… instead of creating a pool, your already-existing pool will begin to move in the direction you flicked the control stick, for as long as you hold B. It moves at the speed of an average walk, and has a neat little affect to it. It’s treated like a hole in the ground, about the height of Olimar, as it moves, and it will drag opponents along for the ride if they happen to fall into it. If the Shadow Pool is on a fall-through platform, they’ll fall through it instead of becoming trapped. (shock and gasp!) Releasing B with a foe inside doesn’t ground them or anything, they can just jump right back out.

Alright, there’s a bit of stuff going behind the scenes with the moving pool, so bear with me.

1: The pool will move along any joined platforms, even if there’s an obstacle in the way.
2: If the pool comes to a gap, it’ll immediately reappear at the bottom as it goes over.
3: If the pool goes off the bottom of the screen… well, it’s gone. Make another.​

With these simple rules, it’s easy to tell that you could create a pool on the upperright-most platform on Hyrule Temple, and bring it down to the lower-leftmost edge, but the small platform on the bottom-right would be impossible to reach. Likewise, it would be impossible to go the reverse way.​

Down Special ~ Shadow Slip

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Up Special ~ Shadow Pool

Vivian makes an apprehensive gesture with her finger, a motion that causes nothing to happen. Well... at least nothing SEEMS to happen. If you move off of the spot where you used this move, you'll see that Vivian's shadow remains where it was when you used the attack! This seemingly inconsequential shadow will be used as a reference point in several of Vivian's other attacks, so place it well.

If you've already readied one of these "Shadow Pools", if you will, Vivian will immediately enter her Veil animation when you use this attack... and pop out inside of it. While it is a guaranteed recovery, yes, Vivian has enough ending lag to make it easily punishable.

As you pop out of a Shadow Pool, it becomes your own shadow, meaning that every time you use your Up Special you’ll have to create another Shadow Pool to work with. These are manipulated in other moves as well, so be careful about recovering as you may be ruining your opportunity for a counter-attack.​

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Neutral A: Bubble

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Dash Attack: Engulf

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Front Tilt: Shade Fist

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Up Tilt: Shadow Pull

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Down Tilt: Smog

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Front Smash: Sludge Bomb

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Up Smash: Explosion

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Down Smash: Group Hug

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Grab: Liquid Ooze

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Pummel: I dunno lol

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Front Throw: Liquid Ooze

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Back Throw: Liquid Ooze

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Up Throw: Liquid Ooze

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Down Throw: Liquid Ooze

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filler

 

[binki4]

Mains : Mario Kirby Pit Zero Suit Samus Snake Ike Diddy Kong Lucas Fox Captain Falcon Lucario Marth


Next Mains : Megaman Rick Wheller Simon Belmont Hinnoh Trainer

 

[MasterWarlord]

Once again, another hopeless one who is too far out there to ever hope to have a reasonable argument with. . .

On the topic of Pokeballs, legendaries can still be rare, a 10% chance or so of getting one, but I don't want it to be a 70% chance of getting a crappily weak one. I want at least a 40% chance of getting an actually decent Pokemon, meaning fully evolved starters and dragonit equivalents and what not. I also feel that Brawl was very low on pokeball quanity and assist trophies too for that matter. There wasn't even a DK assist trophy. Cranky Kong begs to be a Resetii clone.

Or. . .Better yet. In item switch, how about they give us the ability to alter the chance of which pokemon/characters come out of pokeballs/assist trophies? That way you can still have your chaotic pokeball matches when you want to but the default would make the items less overpowered.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

I just want items to be less overpowered.

I don't play with them because they're boring but when I have to play with them (online or with a stuck up friend) I notice they're WAY to powerful.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Or. . .Better yet. In item switch, how about they give us the ability to alter the chance of which pokemon/characters come out of pokeballs/assist trophies? That way you can still have your chaotic pokeball matches when you want to but the default would make the items less overpowered.

Being able to turn on or off certain pokemon/assist trophies would be wonderful, and definately not hard or time consuming to implement.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Creating character lists and you

A short guide to creating a character list for SSB4, made by yours truly. In regards to the two recent, and truly horrible, character lists that were just posted I'm going to make a guide telling people which characters to expect, which characters to never get your hopes up for, and why extra Soinc characters will never make it.

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

Part 2: How important is my character?

Let's take Waluigi and Ridley. More people will have heard of Waluigi, simply because the Mario Sports games have had more wide-spread distribution than, say, Metroid games. However, Waluigi has never been in a game outside of the Mario Sports titles, making him an extremely un-important character. This is the same reason as to why Daisy will never make it above an AT level (and yes, I know she was in Mario Land. Keep in mind that was about 20 years ago, and that it would be adding to an already well represented series).

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

Part 3: How well represented is my character's series/How many other choices are there for my character's series?

Pokemon is an excellent example for this. Mewtwo was, and still is, a very popular Pokemon. However, you have to keep in mind a few things.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

In the next SSB, we can expect either a fifth gen rep, or a new PT covering 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens.

Pokemon is already so well represented, there isn't much more ground to cover.

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

 

[Big-Cat]

Part 1 only works for for international characters. You can't ask those questions about characters like Lip and Claus since those two and others are Japan only.

 

[smashbot226]

ok, back to SSB4
ALERT!!*NEW CHARACTER WISHLIST UPDATE*ALERT!!

Mario Series
Peach New costume(shadow queen)
Mario New Costume(waluigi)
Luigi New costume(Wario)
ROSALINA*flame shield*
Shadow Queen*flame shield*
Paper Characters(Response to Zelda's Toons)

Zelda Series
Zelda New Costume(Midna's True Form)
Ganondorf(SWORD PLEASE)
Toon Zelda*flameshield*
Toon Sheik*flameshield*
Toon Ganondorf*flameshield*

Kirby Series
Kirby NEW HATS(cause of new characters)

Also,
ALERT!!*MOVESET CHANGE WISHLIST*ALERT!!
PEACH
B:Toad
->Beach Bomber
<-B facing->:Heart Palm
->B facing<-:Heart Palm
^Barasol
vB: Turnip

 

[notftomearth7]

Creating character lists and you

A short guide to creating a character list for SSB4, made by yours truly. In regards to the two recent, and truly horrible, character lists that were just posted I'm going to make a guide telling people which characters to expect, which characters to never get your hopes up for, and why extra Soinc characters will never make it.

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

Part 2: How important is my character?

Let's take Waluigi and Ridley. More people will have heard of Waluigi, simply because the Mario Sports games have had more wide-spread distribution than, say, Metroid games. However, Waluigi has never been in a game outside of the Mario Sports titles, making him an extremely un-important character. This is the same reason as to why Daisy will never make it above an AT level (and yes, I know she was in Mario Land. Keep in mind that was about 20 years ago, and that it would be adding to an already well represented series).

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

Part 3: How well represented is my character's series/How many other choices are there for my character's series?

Pokemon is an excellent example for this. Mewtwo was, and still is, a very popular Pokemon. However, you have to keep in mind a few things.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

In the next SSB, we can expect either a fifth gen rep, or a new PT covering 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens.

Pokemon is already so well represented, there isn't much more ground to cover.

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

This little speech brings back so many memories of the original Brawl Character Predictions Thread


Anyway, we must have Panther and Krystal as Star Fox Reps, Bowser Junior from Mario, and Black Shadow as an F-Zero rep

 

[Chief Mendez]

Yeah but I can't rotate online pictures.

Also Skyler's list = awesome, but the people you made it for won't read it.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Everything awesome I post is always at the end of the page. I'm posting it again :<

Creating character lists and you

A short guide to creating a character list for SSB4, made by yours truly. In regards to the two recent, and truly horrible, character lists that were just posted I'm going to make a guide telling people which characters to expect, which characters to never get your hopes up for, and why extra Soinc characters will never make it.

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

Part 2: How important is my character?

Let's take Waluigi and Ridley. More people will have heard of Waluigi, simply because the Mario Sports games have had more wide-spread distribution than, say, Metroid games. However, Waluigi has never been in a game outside of the Mario Sports titles, making him an extremely un-important character. This is the same reason as to why Daisy will never make it above an AT level (and yes, I know she was in Mario Land. Keep in mind that was about 20 years ago, and that it would be adding to an already well represented series).

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

Part 3: How well represented is my character's series/How many other choices are there for my character's series?

Pokemon is an excellent example for this. Mewtwo was, and still is, a very popular Pokemon. However, you have to keep in mind a few things.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

In the next SSB, we can expect either a fifth gen rep, or a new PT covering 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens.

Pokemon is already so well represented, there isn't much more ground to cover.

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

These are alright general criteria. But Smash can still continue to surprise us and be unpredictable; "rules" are broken all the time. We're can't be entirely sure of the "rules" concerning the inclusion of third-party characters when all we have is Sonic to look at. And if you count Snake, most of the rules are broken. I personally think that another Sonic character might have a chance (considering Nintendo and Sega's better relationship these days).

Also, I can see Pokemon Trainer getting cut. Before Brawl, everyone though "Oh heck, that'll never happen." But now we're used to him actually being in the game, he doesn't really follow the "patterns" that people are making up.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Snake actually fit all of the third party criteria, save more maybe the 'they must be recognizable period'.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Snake actually fit all of the third party criteria, save more maybe the 'they must be recognizable period'.

*actually reads the criteria carefully*

Oh, maybe you're right. I misinterpreted the first one. But plenty of characters who have been the focus of games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles don't have a chance. And then again, are these really the actual criteria for inclusion, or just criteria made up to match Sonic and Snake? If you know what I mean. Eh, who knows.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I'm assuming that this is the criteria for inclusion because this is pretty much what Soinc and Snake both follow.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm assuming that this is the criteria for inclusion because this is pretty much what Soinc and Snake both follow.

Well then all third-party characters must have 5 letters in their names and also start with an S.

Spoiler

S-I-M-O-N

 

[MasterWarlord]

@SkylerOcon:

What you said for the most part is indeed very true, although I wouldn't call two Sonic characters more then Mario. When we're getting low on important firsty parties, 3rd parties must be more seriously considered. There's enough to make an SSB4, but I'd be astounded if Sonic didn't have a second character in SSB5. As far as regognizable, Tails and Knuckles at least as regognizable and popular as actual CHARACTERS as Megaman. Not that I expect them in SSB4 in particular.

What you said about Mewtwo was correct. . .For Brawl. In SSB5, Lucario won't be popular or regognizable any more, while Mewtwo will of retained his status of popularity he currently has. They'll be on much mor even footing. Jiggs, PT, and Pikachu will return, while the 5th gen rep is the newcomer. Lucario or Mewtwo will fill pokemon's fifth slot, as it'd be totally unacceptable if Pokemon still only had 4 slots when both Lucario and Mewtwo are begging to come back.

 

[flyinfilipino]

What you said about Mewtwo was correct. . .For Brawl. In SSB5, Lucario won't be popular or regognizable any more, while Mewtwo will of retained his status of popularity he currently has. They'll be on much mor even footing. Jiggs, PT, and Pikachu will return, while the 5th gen rep is the newcomer. Lucario or Mewtwo will fill pokemon's fifth slot, as it'd be totally unacceptable if Pokemon still only had 4 slots when both Lucario and Mewtwo are begging to come back.

Who is currently more popular: Lucario or Mewtwo, and how much has Smash affected that?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Currently, of course Lucario is more popular. But if there's a significant gap in time, his popularity will lower significantly while Mewtwo's current status stays in tact. By significant gap, I'm talking another 7 years. If it was just 3 years or so, I'd think Lucario would be much more likely then Mewtwo, but if Lucario's status fades with time like Mewtwo's did, then they'll have a much closer race.

Overall I'd certainly say Lucario's more likely, but I also certainly wouldn't rule out Mewtwo yet.

 

[Big-Cat]

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

This only works for recent and international characters. You cannot ask these for Japan only characters or characters that are significant, but aren't all too prominent like Captain Syrup.

 

[SkylerOcon]

WTF/retro/region only characters don't follow hardly any of this criteria. They're exempt from most logic regarding chosen characters.

But I swear... If Captain Rainbow doesn't get an announcement of an official NA version in a month, I'm going to mod my Wii and import the game.

 

[smashbot226]

To Skyler:

1. Sakurai openly admitted to not knowing that many wanted Ridley in the game.

2. Sakurai expressed interest in putting Geno in Brawl, but refused since Square Enix wouldn't go as far as to give him a blowjob, like Hideo did with Snake.

3. He said NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING, about putting Krystal as a PC in Brawl.

4. These "Competitive Players" of Pokemon don't count. They just smack the Starters, Garchomp, Luxray, & any legendary Dragon on their team. They deserve their cartridges to be destroyed.

5. To your Daisy remark- her game came out Twenty years ago. Now, how long ago did Ice Climbers come out? I can't even recall if it was an NES or an SNES game.

And no, I don't support Daisy- I just find that the logic behind that is good, but the example you gave could've been better.

 

[flyinfilipino]

To Skyler:

2. Sakurai expressed interest in putting Geno in Brawl, but refused since Square Enix wouldn't go as far as to give him a blowjob, like Hideo did with Snake.

3. He said NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING, about putting Krystal as a PC in Brawl.

4. These "Competitive Players" of Pokemon don't count. They just smack the Starters, Garchomp, Luxray, & any legendary Dragon on their team. They deserve their cartridges to be destroyed.

2. He mentioned wanting to make Geno a PC? Where?

3. Skyler didn't mention Krystal anywhere >.>

Spoiler

Although she was mentioned along with other characters in one of his writings about the poll

4. That's not true.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Also, the IC are a Retro character. They don't count. Daisy, however, is still around -- just in ****ty sports games.

 

[Big-Cat]

2. He mentioned wanting to make Geno a PC? Where?

3. Skyler didn't mention Krystal anywhere >.>

Spoiler

Although she was mentioned along with other characters in one of his writings about the poll

4. That's not true.

2. He never mentioned him. However, a mushroom forest theme file was found in the game. Not to mention that Sakurai mentioned that some first-party things couldn't get in due to rights issues. Sakurai considered Geno first-party so it's possible that he did want him as a PC, but something happened down the line.

However, that line may have been a reference to Mewtwo. In an ONM interview, he mentioned that working with the Pokemon Company was hard. Mewtwo was also the last of the Seven Deadly Fighters to be cut as well.

The music could've applied not to SMRPG, but to the Mushroom forest in PiT. The first-party stuff could've applied to Mewtwo (despite being second party). Both could have applied to Geno.

3. The only time he mentioned Krystal was when he commented that he didn't know she existed at the time (which shows how out of touch he is). However, I only remember seeing this in an old translation so it may not be true.

 

[SmashChu]

Pretty good Skye but two things

-Point 3 is a bit weak becuase of the Mewtwo example. Mewtwo was planned for Brawl (even having a "congradulation" image)
-Geno stands a shot. Sakurai said he tried to add another third party character, but it didn't work. This was probably Geno (Beware the Mushroom Forest was a tune cut as well).

 

[Tabs The Omnipotent Hamster]

To Skyler:



4. These "Competitive Players" of Pokemon don't count. They just smack the Starters, Garchomp, Luxray, & any legendary Dragon on their team. They deserve their cartridges to be destroyed.

My desire to kill you has expanded threefold.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Luxray is crap, most of the starters are crap. You know nothing of the competetive game. In competetive Pokemon, you don't care whether or not you like the Pokemon for the most part (Unless it actually is in the OU tier), you just try to make a team that PLAYS the way you want. It's different from Smash in that the Pokemon have much less character then the famous Smash characters, meaning that you don't particularly care about playing your favorite Pokemon and just enjoy the competetive battles.

Sorry, but any Pokemon below OU/Borderline are completely inviable in the competetive scene. If you get rid of the competetive Pokemon players, all you'd have is a bunch of brats playing the game thinking they're god because they can beat the elite four which have terrible movesets, low levels and use random attacks. The single player of Pokemon is mediocre, without competetive batteling no true gamers would keep coming back to the franchise. I originally was one of those brats who had that mindset I mentioned, but I've "evolved", so to speak.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

R-O-S-A-L-I-N-A
S-H-A-D-O-W-Q-U-E-E-N


4-SSB4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Noone mess with me...cause im innocent...or am i?

Also, Daisy was in all MP games, too

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