[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

i think you guys are looking a bit too far into the future... they might not even make another................................................... on second thought you know they will, but still were gonna have to shovel through all the ******* who seem to think that timmy turner would be an awesome choise for a character.

Yep...we're all over that.

SmashChu: What you say is true.

 

[Big-Cat]

You raise an excellent point, SmashChu. However, one thing still bugs me. If Smash was intended to be 4 players with items, then why is there a tourney mode which somewhat implies a competitive scene.

 

[NjHudz]

what do you think ssb4 would be called
(by the way tourney is just for fun, a game has to have a foundation, 4 players w/items, but it doesnt always have to follow it)

 

[Agi]

what do you think ssb4 would be called
(by the way tourney is just for fun, a game has to have a foundation, 4 players w/items, but it doesnt always have to follow it)

*digs up thesaurus*

Super Smash Bros ____

altercation, argument, brannigan, broil, brouhaha, contention, controversy, din, discord, disputation, dispute, donnybrook, fracas, melee, quarrel, quarrel (noisy), rumpus, squabble, to-do, tumult, uproar, wrangle

It worked for melee.

 

[NjHudz]

very true... very true.
You know whatd be cool? Super smash Bros. Zelda edition. All zelda chars, music, stages, itd be pretty cool but its not happening.................. I'll make a thread about it anyway

 

[darkserenade]

very true... very true.
You know whatd be cool? Super smash Bros. Zelda edition. All zelda chars, music, stages, itd be pretty cool but its not happening.................. I'll make a thread about it anyway

Then they'd have to do Poke edition, Mario edition, Emblem edition, etc. It goes under the category of "awesome but impossible."

 

[hippochinfat!!]

It's becuase how Smash Bros is balanced.

The truth is the game is balanced. But not for 1v1 gameplay. The game is designed as a 4 player fighting game, so naturally this is how the game is balanced. Link is the best example. He was low in 64, and a mid/low in Melee, so why did they make him worse? The reason was he was actually over powered in Melee. Shocking, I know. In the 1v1 field, we was meh at best, but in 4vs he did amazingly well. He had projectiles for camping, and some really mean attacks, the spin attack especially. So come Brawl they make his recovery weak, lower his air speed and gimp the spin attack. Now, in a 4vs environment, he is balanced. His weak recovery offsets his power and attack speed. If the game was balanced with 1v1 in mind, they would have done more to make him stronger.

If you play in a 4vs environment, you'll see everything come together and the game be a lot more playable. But why is it that the game isn't perfect, and every character on an even playing field. Because they didn't balance it like they. What they did is basically make every character have enough pros to have them be usable, and in capable hands, the character can win. This is why items help balance. Because it gives every character an opportunity to win. Instead making it a combination of random luck and skill with the item.

Now, what happens when you try to make the game tournament ready, the balance breaks. No longer is it about all the characters being usable, but the characters needing to be on a flat and even (read:balance) plain. This wasn't the intent of the developers and, as such, all falls apart. Another big part is that some characters are naturally better at 1v1 battles. In Melee, Fox's trophy says that he is better in 1v1 battles. It comes as no surprise why he was top in Melee. His trophy even said so.

The big problem with competative smash is the game was not designed for it. In numerous other fighting games, they can reach a balance. Since the games are a lot more tame, they can focus on traditional balance, and also please everyone, having the game be easy to play but hard to master. In Smash, they have to make it balanced for 4vs; doing it any other way would make 4vs imbalanced and, consequently, isolate the majority of fans.

Of course, even if Smash could be balanced with tournament play in mind, there would still be tier, and becuase how the fan base acts, one character is going to be "overpowered".

How can you say 4 player matches are more balanced when they haven't even been tested competitively? Bottom tiers characters don't become better in free for alls. They're still awful characters. How are characters like Snake and Metaknight worse in free for alls?

I'd like to you see say something besides "The game is balanced with free for alls and it's not balanced in 1vs1. The trophies in Melee said ____ is better in _____ !" Those trophies mean nothing. They were horrible guidelines on how to play.

 

[NjHudz]

Then they'd have to do Poke edition, Mario edition, Emblem edition, etc. It goes under the category of "awesome but impossible."

I know thats why i said its not gonna happen... but still they could make special editions for stuff like mario and zelda just cuz theres lots of characters in each that would be good SSB choises also good stages and music

 

[Darky Dee]

i think you guys are looking a bit too far into the future... they might not even make another................................................... on second thought you know they will, but still were gonna have to shovel through all the ******* who seem to think that timmy turner would be an awesome choise for a character.

What is a Timmy Turner? And I wouldn't consider it "far into the future."

In terms of characters though, I can't really see them breaking the four-character per franchise quota, ergo anything that surpasses the Super Mario count is inconceivable. I really can't see them adding another Mario character-- what are they going to do, give us Bowser Jr. or Geno?

That's why, flyinfilipino-- it would make sense for them to fill up the Donkey Kong limit. It is in need of the antagonist and another well-known supporting character. Dixie in my opinion-- because she's appeared in I think fifteen games(?) while playable in thirteen(?) and starred in her own game while Smash Bros. is in need of some more female representation while having what you call an "original move set".

The issue of removing characters is pretty unnecessary-- with the exception of Toon Link, mainly because there already is a Link, and he had the ability to be so much more different than Link; using Deku Leaves, Bombchus, Grapple Hook, and on. Perhaps Lucario as well to keep up with the current gen Pokemon, but they could just redo PKMN Trainer to have the new starters if there are any by then.

 

[NjHudz]

timmy turner is a cartoon character and it is pretty far into the future when you think about it, i mean the gap between melee and brawl was 7 years.

 

[flyinfilipino]

How can you say 4 player matches are more balanced when they haven't even been tested competitively? Bottom tiers characters don't become better in free for alls. They're still awful characters. How are characters like Snake and Metaknight worse in free for alls?

You and everyone else knows that Smash isn't supposed to be a "competitive" fighting game in the first place. In my experience, 4-player free for alls are nothing like one on one matches. They don't need to pass the "competitive" test.

That's why, flyinfilipino-- it would make sense for them to fill up the Donkey Kong limit. It is in need of the antagonist and another well-known supporting character. Dixie in my opinion-- because she's appeared in I think fifteen games(?) while playable in thirteen(?) and starred in her own game while Smash Bros. is in need of some more female representation while having what you call an "original move set".

Oh, I know, I was just messing earlier

 

[Chief Mendez]

If Smash was intended to be 4 players with items, then why is there a tourney mode which somewhat implies a competitive scene.

Why is Tourney mode a tiny button, the same size as "name entry" and "rules"?

It's just a cool addition, not a serious component. Have you ever been to an actual tourney where they used Tournament Mode?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

You and everyone else knows that Smash isn't supposed to be a "competitive" fighting game in the first place. In my experience, 4-player free for alls are nothing like one on one matches. They don't need to pass the "competitive" test.

Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but it is. What do you mean pass the "competitive" test? Are you saying that we don't need to test them competitively to say they're more balanced?

 

[RoxburyGuy58]

No offense to Samurai Panda, but...ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! A SSB4 THREAD?! We've only had the game for 6 months, and now we're already hoping for a fourth? Granted, Brawl has its flaws (tripping, a couple of lazily-made stages, poor Wi-Fi), but a game this epic will probably last us about 6-7 years, like Melee did.

Btw, Psyduck, MegaMan X, and any of the three BattleToads would be awesome character choices for #4 . And maybe a Wi-Fi like Mario Kart Wii's.

 

[Agi]

No offense to Samurai Panda, but...ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! A SSB4 THREAD?! We've only had the game for 6 months, and now we're already hoping for a fourth?

...this thread was made in May...

Smash is one of Nintendo's cash cows. They aren't gonna dump it after just three games.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but it is within a comparatively miniscule group of players.

...Is what you meant to say.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Anybody who plays the game deeper then "LOLOL THE BOB-OMB KILLED ME LOLOL" and doesn't dump the game will ultimately eventually -try- to play it competetively. You don't give people enough credit. When you're playing a FFA with items, you're still trying to win, are you not?

Trying to win doesn't always mean not having fun, who would've guessed? Just because you aren't that skilled at the game, if you still have fun and try to win when you play (Which is hard to not do besides online taunt parties), you play competively. Good /=/ competetive.

New topic of discussion. . .

If you had to cut at least one character from Brawl for SSB4, who would it be? (Transformations don't count.)

 

[Darky Dee]

TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK
TOON LINK

And Toon Link(?)

The issue of removing characters is pretty unnecessary-- with the exception of Toon Link, mainly because there already is a Link, and he had the ability to be so much more different than Link; using Deku Leaves, Bombchus, Grapple Hook, and on. Perhaps Lucario as well to keep up with the current gen Pokemon, but they could just redo PKMN Trainer to have the new starters if there are any by then.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Anybody who plays the game deeper then "LOLOL THE BOB-OMB KILLED ME LOLOL" and doesn't dump the game will ultimately eventually -try- to play it competetively. You don't give people enough credit. When you're playing a FFA with items, you're still trying to win, are you not?

I know what you mean, but Smash is still primarily a multiplayer fighting game, not a 1 vs. 1 traditional fighter.

And for the record, by "competitively", I mean the people who subscribe to tier lists and level bans, and never play with items. Playing with the intent to win and playing competitively are different things.

ANYWAY

If I got to cut a character...I think it'd probably be either R.O.B., Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Diddy Kong, or Toon Link. Most of those aren't realistic cuts, but those characters I could do without.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why is Tourney mode a tiny button, the same size as "name entry" and "rules"?

It's just a cool addition, not a serious component. Have you ever been to an actual tourney where they used Tournament Mode?

I have never been to a tourney because there are none where I live.

Anyway, I'd cut Wolf.

 

[princesspeachluver13]

PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH

and Peach!!!!!

PEACH FTW!!!!

 

[Lord Exor]

SSB4 better be even more unbalanced than Brawl.

 

[Chief Mendez]

PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH
PEACH

and Peach!!!!!

THE HYPOCRISY IS BLINDING

@KumaOso: I've only been to three tourneys, all of which tracked winners and losers outside the game. Anyway, that's my point. Why Wolf though? He's awesome, even if he is a "clone".

 

[Big-Cat]

THE HYPOCRISY IS BLINDING

@KumaOso: I've only been to three tourneys, all of which tracked winners and losers outside the game. Anyway, that's my point. Why Wolf though? He's awesome, even if he is a "clone".

The only reason I'd cut Wolf would be to put Krystal in. The only other character I'd consider is R.O.B.

 

[Darky Dee]

THE HYPOCRISY IS BLINDING

I couldn't help it.

On a side-note; I don't think cutting Wolf will affect Krystal's chances. The franchise cap is four slots, amirite?

 

[British Geezer]

Marth, Ike, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, and Toon Link need to go.

And add Toad.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Why would you cut Marth? Ike is understandable as he'll probably be replaced by another FE character. Why should PT go? He's important.

AND NO GENERIC CHARACTERS. Read it:

Creating character lists and you

A short guide to creating a character list for SSB4, made by yours truly. In regards to the two recent, and truly horrible, character lists that were just posted I'm going to make a guide telling people which characters to expect, which characters to never get your hopes up for, and why extra Soinc characters will never make it.

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

Part 2: How important is my character?

Let's take Waluigi and Ridley. More people will have heard of Waluigi, simply because the Mario Sports games have had more wide-spread distribution than, say, Metroid games. However, Waluigi has never been in a game outside of the Mario Sports titles, making him an extremely un-important character. This is the same reason as to why Daisy will never make it above an AT level (and yes, I know she was in Mario Land. Keep in mind that was about 20 years ago, and that it would be adding to an already well represented series).

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

Part 3: How well represented is my character's series/How many other choices are there for my character's series?

Pokemon is an excellent example for this. Mewtwo was, and still is, a very popular Pokemon. However, you have to keep in mind a few things.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

In the next SSB, we can expect either a fifth gen rep, or a new PT covering 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens.

Pokemon is already so well represented, there isn't much more ground to cover.

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

 

[Darky Dee]

Marth, Ike, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, and Toon Link need to go.

And add Toad.

WOOOOOOOW-- WHAT IS THIS!? Mario Kart?

Why would you cut Marth? Ike is understandable as he'll probably be replaced by another FE character. Why should PT go? He's important.

Why would Ike get the axe? Isn't he equally important to his game as Marth is to his?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Marth, Ike, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, and Toon Link need to go.

You just cut an entire franchise.

...How does that even work?

@Skyler: I doubt Ike will be cut. He's got a unique moveset (unlike Roy), he represents Fire Emblem in 3D (unlike Roy, who only represented FE on the GBA), and...everyone likes him. It wouldn't be unusual to see three FE reps, anyways.

 

[rexinator]

All I think is that Game and Watch's normal attack move should be changed. (Seriously, just look at it and tell me that it doesn't look perverted)

 

[British Geezer]

Fire Emblem sucks. It was Japan-only for a reason, and while the series is getting some popularity now, everybody knows Final Fantasy is the better series. I dislike RPG's in general anyway, so I'm a tad biased.

Besides, I never said get rid of the series entirely. They could just add two new reps from FE's already too-large cast of characters.

 

[Darky Dee]

All I think is that Game and Watch's normal attack move should be changed. (Seriously, just look at it and tell me that it doesn't look perverted)

Is sauce a bad thing?

Forunately Geezer, Nintendo does not own Final Fantasy, otherwise we'd have Final Fantasy Crappidia with Mario as a guest character.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Fire Emblem sucks. It was Japan-only for a reason, and while the series is getting some popularity now, everybody knows Final Fantasy is the better series. I dislike RPG's in general anyway, so I'm a tad biased.

Besides, I never said get rid of the series entirely. They could just add two new reps from FE's already too-large cast of characters.

Bolded is one giant opinion.

Also, Marth is the most important lord and Ike is the most recent. Marth won't get cut and Ike might get cut. Get over it.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Fire Emblem sucks. It was Japan-only for a reason, and while the series is getting some popularity now, everybody knows Final Fantasy is the better series. I dislike RPG's in general anyway, so I'm a tad biased.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. FF and FE are different genres, you're comparing apples and oranges there.

And while the series isn't particularly life-changing, the games are very, very good tactical RPGs, with very well-written (if slightly generic) scripts and good characterization.

Besides, I never said get rid of the series entirely. They could just add two new reps from FE's already too-large cast of characters.

Marth and Ike are the two most prominent Lords in the series, so doing that would be like cutting Mario and Luigi in exchange for Toad and Waluigi.

 

[Darky Dee]

Marth and Ike are the two most prominent Lords in the series, so doing that would be like cutting Mario and Luigi in exchange for Toad and Waluigi.

This is coming from somebody who wants to turn Smash Bros into Mario Kart/Sluggers/Tennis/r/.

And add Toad.

Final Fantasy caters to a different audience. Tactical RPG =/= Turn Based RPG, unless you had a great excuse to waste time playing Final Fantasy Tactics.

 

[rexinator]

Is sauce a bad thing?

SERIOUSLY!!! It looks like he's jacking-off!!! That's not ok for a video game like this!!!

 

[SmashChu]

Well, actually, I meant Ray MK II from Custom Robo. I feel as if a knife punctured my heart a million times, but that Ray would work too, I suppose.

WE NEED MECHA ACTION! Samus doesn't count, she has ****.

Oh, well that works too
(Actually, I'm not a big fan of Custom Robo characters, but I wont cry if one is in)

SmashChu...I love you so much right now.

That was beatiful.

:embarrass
(Forum lacks a kissy similie)

You raise an excellent point, SmashChu. However, one thing still bugs me. If Smash was intended to be 4 players with items, then why is there a tourney mode which somewhat implies a competitive scene.

Well, a tournamant doesn't nessisarily have to be competative. Typically, in Smash, when we think tournamant we think "1v1, Fox only Final Destination". It doesn't mean the mode was meant to be played that way, but the mode is for times when you have a party and want to have a tournament.

How can you say 4 player matches are more balanced when they haven't even been tested competitively? Bottom tiers characters don't become better in free for alls. They're still awful characters. How are characters like Snake and Metaknight worse in free for alls?

I'd like to you see say something besides "The game is balanced with free for alls and it's not balanced in 1vs1. The trophies in Melee said ____ is better in _____ !" Those trophies mean nothing. They were horrible guidelines on how to play.

Hmmm, where to start.

First off, why does it have to be tested. If you've ever actually played a 4vs match then you'd see what I mean. The characters who "suck" have some kind of purpose. Again, the game is meant to have all the characters be usable, not on an even plain.

And yes, if you didn't know this, some characters are naturally better in 4vs. Link is a good example. One who can spam, and has some mean attacks for snagging KOs. He can also surprise people with his down air. Not to mention the spin attack can clear groups of people away.

Plus, if you haven't noticed, the low characters actually have some potential (tourney***s will deny this. They tend to ***** about how the top guy is so overpowered and everyone in the low group is worthless). This should be a red flag. They made the game playable.

The other thing is that when you mix in items and stages you create a more diverse game. No longer is it character vs character, not now you must avoid/utilize the items and fight the stage. Now, you can see what I mean; all the characters are meant to be usable. Sonic, for example. He has almost no killing moves, but now that items are on he can kill. Heck, all the characters have some kind of chance to pull ahead of the pack.

Maybe it wasn't meant to be, but it is. What do you mean pass the "competitive" test? Are you saying that we don't need to test them competitively to say they're more balanced?

That's all you need to know. If that is how they meant it to be, that is how it will be developed and, ultimately, balanced.

Plus, competative players are very biased. I doubt they will be able to test balance.

 

[British Geezer]

Did I say I wanted SSB to turn into Mario Kart? No.

Toad is awesome, so he deserves a slot. Also, for other games, one or two of the Wario Ware supporting characters could pad out a roster, and Ridley is definitely going in.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Creating character lists and you

A short guide to creating a character list for SSB4, made by yours truly. In regards to the two recent, and truly horrible, character lists that were just posted I'm going to make a guide telling people which characters to expect, which characters to never get your hopes up for, and why extra Soinc characters will never make it.

Part 1: Is my character popular enough?

Chances are, you want a few pretty popular characters in there. These are characters like Ridley, that despite high fan demand, weren't placed in previous SSB games. A few solutions to see if your character is popular:

- Go to forums and see if people recognize the character. However, there will always be characters like Geno that are only recognized on forums, so please don't only use this method.
- Go to an EB Games and ask somebody working there something like 'Hey, I heard that *insert character* is having a game staring him coming out soon. Do you have any more information?'. If you get an answer confirming that they have heard of the character, then this was a success.
- Ask your friends about the character, whether they be gamers or not. Hopefully, they'll recognize the character (some non-gamers may not recognize them, so take their answers with a grain of salt).

If all three worked, then your character is popular enough!

Part 2: How important is my character?

Let's take Waluigi and Ridley. More people will have heard of Waluigi, simply because the Mario Sports games have had more wide-spread distribution than, say, Metroid games. However, Waluigi has never been in a game outside of the Mario Sports titles, making him an extremely un-important character. This is the same reason as to why Daisy will never make it above an AT level (and yes, I know she was in Mario Land. Keep in mind that was about 20 years ago, and that it would be adding to an already well represented series).

Alternatively, Ridley is the second most important character in the Metroid series, second to only Samus. And for a game with only one character (ZSS doesn't count) represented, Ridley not being included in Brawl was... very, very strange. In the event of an SSB4, he will be in there just because he's important to his game series.

Part 3: How well represented is my character's series/How many other choices are there for my character's series?

Pokemon is an excellent example for this. Mewtwo was, and still is, a very popular Pokemon. However, you have to keep in mind a few things.

- Mewtwo is a first generation Pokemon. Pikachu and Jigglypuff, who will never be removed because they were in SSB64, are first generation. Pokemon Trainer is first generation. Who would get the axe? Mewtwo. Why? Because Lucario is more recognizable now, just because he enticed a whole new generation of Pokemon fans.
- There are 493 Pokemon. And about 20 popular ones. That's more than any other series can say, including Mario.
- Sadly, some of the newer Pokemon players don't recognize Mewtwo. Even some kids now entering the Pokemon tourney scene don't know who he is because of his UU status (or in other words, banned).

In the next SSB, we can expect either a fifth gen rep, or a new PT covering 3rd, 4th, and 5th gens.

Pokemon is already so well represented, there isn't much more ground to cover.

Part 4: Third Party characters -- one per customer

Let's face it. We all want one character from a third party that will never make the game. I want Bomberman, but he'll never make it. Some people want Geno, but he'll never make it.

Keep in mind part 1 when choosing a third party. People, a LOT, of people need to know who they are. Most people don't know who Geno is. Shut the hell up, Geno fanboys, because he will never make it.

Also, you have to make sure the character had a MAJOR role in a game on a Nintendo console. This is why Cloud and Sephiroth won't make it, but characters like Crono and Sora might (using Square as an example). Cloud and Sephie have had very, very limited roles in Chain of Memories. Dissagea... MAYBE. I know that the FF fighter is going to be on the DS, but I don't see it being popular enough to effect anything.

Anyway, this is the basic criteria for a third party character making SSB:

- They must have held a major role in a game on a Nintendo console
- They must be well recognized and respected in the gaming world
- If one character got in from the series, don't expect another
- They must be recognizable period

Please, don't go asking for every Sonic character in existance to make SSB. It's a sad, sad day when I see these character lists that have more Sonic characters than Mario characters. Tails won't happen. Knuckles won't happen. Get over it.

Read that. Seriously. Please. Specifically part four.

 

[Darky Dee]

SERIOUSLY!!! It looks like he's jacking-off!!! That's not ok for a video game like this!!!

I never noticed that his neutral A looked like a *****. Perhaps someone has a dirty mind?

--------------------
Back on Mario games:
Wanting Toad is like saying you want:
A. Turn it into Mario Kart.
B. Turn it into Mario Sluggers.
C. Turn it into Mario Party.
D. Turn it into Mario Golf.
E. Turn it into Mario Tennis.
F. Turn it into Mario Strikers.
G. All of the above.

That opens the flood gate to allowing the most generic characters to enter. Why not Miis, Dry Bones? Gerudo Theives? Chozos? Pikmin themselves? They shouldn't be eligible because-- they suck, as playable characters at least.