[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Frogsterking]

Comments, etc. in LIME.

People don't complain about Luigi being a clone of Mario because they are so similar in their games, and they have plenty of differences in their movesets anyway. The same for Bowser Jr. I mean a weak small fast bowser would be very different, even if it had similar moves.

Also, I personally don't want a Toon Link because its just another link, though I wouldn't mind if it had a different moveset and used the tools from wind waker.

Your right about Falco, he would just need decloning.

And no, I think Zelda deserves her own character and Shiek doesn't deserve a spot anyway. I actually wouldn't mind if it were both of them, but since so many people just use one or the other it makes two characters without a Down B. And maybe Shiek should just be her own character since she's already got the moveset. And I would add Vaati, to that list.

Thanks for correction on Lyn.

If ZSS and Samus can't both fight at once, how come four Wario's can all fight and kill each other at once?

Your right Megaman and Bomber Man should be included, and I think a Custom Robo character either Ray Mk 3 or Ray 001.

 

[Frogsterking]

Character List -Take 2

Characters if Frogsterking made SSB4:



Mario Universe:

Mario (much better, has a Dr. Mario costume)
Luigi
Peach
Bowser (much better, >B is replaced with a fireball projectile)
Bowser Jr. (Moveset is very similar to Bowser, except he is weak and fast)
Yoshi (infinitely better-he's been around since SSB64 he deserves a good character)
Geno


Pokemon Universe:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff (has best airgame in the game)
Mewtwo
Pokemon Trainer (little tweaks to make each pokemon better)
5th Gen Pokemon rep


Zelda Universe:

Link (much better)
Zelda (No shiek, some attacks are quicker and build up damage faster)
Ganondorf (decloned, uses sword and magic for attacks)
Vaati
WW Link (decloned)

Kirby Universe:

Kirby
King Dedede (No more chain grab DDD...sorry )
Meta-Knight (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)


Star Fox Universe:

Fox
Falco (decloned)
Krystal (uses staff)
Wolf (decloned)


Donkey Kong Universe:

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool


Fire Emblem Universe:

Marth
Ike
Lyn


Metroid Universe:

Samus (much better)
ZSS (separate character, only included for female rep)
Ridley


Captain Falcon Universe:

Captain Falcon (obviously a lot better)
Samurai Goroh


Mother:

Ness
Lucas (decloned)


Pikmin Universe:

Cpt. Olimar


Wario Ware Universe:

Wario


Kid Icarus Universe:

Pit


Other:

Sonic (much better)
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch (NERF)
Snake (NERF)
Isaac (has cool projectile like the Assist Trophy does, but smaller obviously)
R.O.B (yes I would keep him, he has an interesting moveset and adds variety)
Megaman
Bomberman (I'm not really sure on Bomberman...)
Ray 001 or Ray Mk 3


Here's my new list. What do you think of King Boo or Petey Piranah (spelling?) for Mario Universe? Any Wario Ware characters worth mentioning? Replace Lucas with other Mother rep?

 

[Chief Mendez]

BAAAW DOUBLE POST

Spoiler

The edit button hates you

Separating Sheik and Zelda? That's...actually not a bad idea. I think they should still be stuck in the same character select box, but if, say, you held down the R button (like for selecting ZSS) while you picked who you were starting as, the game would take away your down B for you, leaving you with a different, character-specific attack.

Zelda Down B: Song of Time - Zelda brandishes the Ocarina of Time and plays the familiar tune (> V A, > V A), causing time to slow down (for everybody, including her) for five seconds. There's a 1 in 12 chance that time will speed up instead, though.

Sheik Down B: Deku Flash - AKA "Ninja Vanish!", Sheik tosses a small packet of powder on the ground ahead of her/him/it/potato, dizzying any enemies within the explosion's VERY specific hitbox, while leaping high into the air. No damage, but it stuns people for a second or two, and gets you out of there (the jump is as high as both of Sheik's jumps together, but she/he/it/potato can't air jump after using this). On the ground, the packet would pop in Sheik's hands, acting like a one-time only Reflector.

@Frogsterking: King Boo and Petey are not good picks. They're both just recurring bosses, but not major threats. WarioWare...I can't say: I'm not a big fan of the games, so I don't really know. Lucas has to stay though (there's really nobody else, anyways, right?).

 

[Big-Cat]

Those sound really broken, Chief.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Those sound really broken, Chief.

Your face sounds really broken, Kuma.

 

[Marios My Bro]

Characters if Frogsterking made SSB4:



Mario Universe:

Mario (much better, has a Dr. Mario costume)
Luigi
Peach
Bowser (much better, >B is replaced with a fireball projectile)
Bowser Jr. (Moveset is very similar to Bowser, except he is weak and fast)
Yoshi (infinitely better-he's been around since SSB64 he deserves a good character)
Geno


Pokemon Universe:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff (has best airgame in the game)
Mewtwo
Pokemon Trainer (little tweaks to make each pokemon better)
5th Gen Pokemon rep


Zelda Universe:

Link (much better)
Zelda (No shiek, some attacks are quicker and build up damage faster)
Ganondorf (decloned, uses sword and magic for attacks)
Vaati
WW Link (decloned)

Kirby Universe:

Kirby
King Dedede (No more chain grab DDD...sorry )
Meta-Knight (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)


Star Fox Universe:

Fox
Falco (decloned)
Krystal (uses staff)
Wolf (decloned)


Donkey Kong Universe:

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool


Fire Emblem Universe:

Marth
Ike
Lyn


Metroid Universe:

Samus (much better)
ZSS (separate character, only included for female rep)
Ridley


Captain Falcon Universe:

Captain Falcon (obviously a lot better)
Samurai Goroh


Mother:

Ness
Lucas (decloned)


Pikmin Universe:

Cpt. Olimar


Wario Ware Universe:

Wario


Kid Icarus Universe:

Pit


Other:

Sonic (much better)
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch (NERF)
Snake (NERF)
Isaac (has cool projectile like the Assist Trophy does, but smaller obviously)
R.O.B (yes I would keep him, he has an interesting moveset and adds variety)
Megaman
Bomberman (I'm not really sure on Bomberman...)
Ray 001 or Ray Mk 3


Here's my new list. What do you think of King Boo or Petey Piranah (spelling?) for Mario Universe? Any Wario Ware characters worth mentioning? Replace Lucas with other Mother rep?

I like that list. I still think zelda and sheik should be the same thing though because its based on the Zelda games. If they add Issac it be cool if they add one more character from the Golden Sun series, especially if they make Golden Sun 3

 

[Big-Cat]

Your face sounds really broken, Kuma.

Your *** sounds really broken, Chief.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Your *** sounds really broken, Chief.

I know I am but what are you?

Spoiler

that makes no sense

Well, they were just off-the-cuff ideas, and it's not like either of them deals damage. Song of Time affects everyone, so really it'd just be a tool to p*ss off your friends with. And Deku Flash is hard to follow up on, since it sends Sheik really far away from her/his/it's/potato's opponent.

But whatever--do you see how the idea of each having specific, more-useless-than-usual moves for their Down B? (Regardless of what they actually are) In that way, dedicated Zelda or Sheik players will have a full stock of Specials to rely on, rather than be burdened down by a useless(to them) Down Special.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Your *** sounds really broken, Chief.

O BURN

I've heard there are people out there that use both Zelda and Sheik in battle effectively.

*cricket*

Anyone know of them?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Giving Shiek a seperate character box would be an excellent excuse to not have a fifth Zelda character, and would boost the roster up by one. Due to tradition, though, I don't see it happening. That Zelda down special would be abused to death in time matches.

*Gets 1 KO*

*Spams Down B entire match, running*

*Timer runs out*

*Wins*

*Gets beaten up by other angry player*

 

[SirKibble]

I use them both, I don't know about effectively...

 

[Big-Cat]

But whatever--do you see how the idea of each having specific, more-useless-than-usual moves for their Down B?

Yeah. Samus shouldn't be the only one. Speaking of which, there shouldn't be any condition that makes you Samus/Zamus.

Also, for the next adventure mode, I want this person to be the final boss:

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yeah. Samus shouldn't be the only one. Speaking of which, there shouldn't be any condition that makes you Samus/Zamus.

Also, for the next adventure mode, I want this person to be the final boss:

Who is that?

 

[SirKibble]

Who is that?

Your mom.

Spoiler

Sorry, had to.

But seriously, who is that? Whoever it is, they're, uh... How would you say it... Scary beyond all reason?

 

[Big-Cat]

When you meet her in the PW games, you will come to love hating that *****.

Her name, you ask?

The Black Rose: Dahlia Hawthorne

 

[C.Olimar788]

When you meet her in the PW games, you will come to love hating that *****.

Her name, you ask?

The Black Rose: Dahlia Hawthorne

Wait, PW like Phoenix Wright? That THING is from Phoenix Wright? O.o

...I'm not sure if this makes me want the rest of the PW game more or less. XD

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, PW like Phoenix Wright? That THING is from Phoenix Wright? O.o

...I'm not sure if this makes me want the rest of the PW game more or less. XD

Trust me, you do. I've only played the first three so far, but the third game is my favorite in terms of story.

 

[Sylentwind]

they should make super smash bros melee "2" :D

 

[flyinfilipino]

they should make super smash bros melee "2" :D

No. It would not be Melee.

 

[Chief Mendez]

That Zelda down special would be abused to death in time matches.

Unless Song of Time affected the timer too. There, fixed.

Dahlia's the worst (and therefore best) villain I've ever "fought" in any videogame ever...but she's not Smash Bros. material. For obvious reasons...

 

[Darkwashu]

@Frogsterking

Wait...Lucas and Wolf are prolly the least cloned characters in the game.

Just give one of the EB kids PK teleport, and Wolf a new FS.

And..no, not Lyn.

 

[Big-Cat]

Unless Song of Time affected the timer too. There, fixed.

Dahlia's the worst (and therefore best) villain I've ever "fought" in any videogame ever...but she's not Smash Bros. material. For obvious reasons...

I know. But still, she would make a hell of a lot better villain than Tabuu. Now imagine that she fought with the Shichishito.

 

[SirKibble]

Just give one of the EB kids Ness PK teleport

Let's not be vague here... I mean, c'mon, that entrance animation is beyond cool, we needs to be able to do something similar in battle. Just make him disappear into a portal, then one appears a short distance whatever direction you point the control stick, and Ness launches out, doing damage like if he's hit with his PK Thunder right now.

New Pros
Not ridiculously gimpable as a recovery
Easier to aim for attacking/recovery
Looks cool

New Cons
Can't be used as a projectile attack
Obviously less range, as it's not a projectile like PK Thunder

 

[Chief Mendez]

The only thing I don't like is how PK Teleport would make PK Thunder 2 easier to pull off. It's annoying enough as it is...but making it so all you have to do is tilt the control stick, rather than aim a projectile into yourself, would be much worse.

So just lower the damage/knockback it'd do, and I approve.

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, you'd have to lower the damage and knockback.

Ness and Lucas desperately need PK Rockin' and Love respectively. I know Lucas has it in his moves, but it's more like how Zelda does her attacks. It's just generic PSI, not truly PK Love.

 

[SirKibble]

The only thing I don't like is how PK Teleport would make PK Thunder 2 easier to pull off. It's annoying enough as it is...but making it so all you have to do is tilt the control stick, rather than aim a projectile into yourself, would be much worse.

So just lower the damage/knockback it'd do, and I approve.

Yes, yes, of course. Lower damage and knockback, but still a decently powerful attack. I guess I mentally had that in there, but didn't include in the post...

 

[Darkwashu]

I wouldnt mind if PK thunder replaced PK Flash. <_<

Ness' Recovery would be just like Mewtwo's, ruining his chances of coming back and people saying
"Ness and Mewtwo are clones!!!"

 

[C.Olimar788]

Pk Teleport could be a cool Side-B, too. :D It'd help Ness' recovery, be overall awesome, and allow Lucas to keep PK Fire with minimum complaints.

 

[Darkwashu]

Pk Teleport could be a cool Side-B, too. :D It'd help Ness' recovery, be overall awesome, and allow Lucas to keep PK Fire with minimum complaints.

But I like PK Fire D:

 

[C.Olimar788]

But I like PK Fire D:

But it would live on in Lucas so it's OK, right? I kinda prefer Ness' PK fire over Lucas', though... :/ Eh, just a thought.

 

[SirKibble]

I'd probably stop using Ness if he lost PK Fire... And that would be sad, because he's the only character I've been able to stick with through all three games now...

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, what if PK Rockin' and Love did the same exact thing as PK Fire but under a new name and look?

 

[Frogsterking]

BAAAW DOUBLE POST

Spoiler

The edit button hates you

Separating Sheik and Zelda? That's...actually not a bad idea. I think they should still be stuck in the same character select box, but if, say, you held down the R button (like for selecting ZSS) while you picked who you were starting as, the game would take away your down B for you, leaving you with a different, character-specific attack.

Zelda Down B: Song of Time - Zelda brandishes the Ocarina of Time and plays the familiar tune (> V A, > V A), causing time to slow down (for everybody, including her) for five seconds. There's a 1 in 12 chance that time will speed up instead, though.

Sheik Down B: Deku Flash - AKA "Ninja Vanish!", Sheik tosses a small packet of powder on the ground ahead of her/him/it/potato, dizzying any enemies within the explosion's VERY specific hitbox, while leaping high into the air. No damage, but it stuns people for a second or two, and gets you out of there (the jump is as high as both of Sheik's jumps together, but she/he/it/potato can't air jump after using this). On the ground, the packet would pop in Sheik's hands, acting like a one-time only Reflector.

@Frogsterking: King Boo and Petey are not good picks. They're both just recurring bosses, but not major threats. WarioWare...I can't say: I'm not a big fan of the games, so I don't really know. Lucas has to stay though (there's really nobody else, anyways, right?).

Hmmm. I'd like to hear some other opinions on King Boo and Petey Piranah, they might be worth it since could have a unique moveset and add another rep to Nintendo's biggest franchise.

Zelda's Down B I don't think would work. I know very little about Zelda, so I can't think of a suitable Down B but it would best be a utility move that helps her rack up damage.

Shiek's I would change to being a small explosion around her, that stuns opponents when hit, stun time depending on damage percent. The animation would have her quickly crouching (just an animation, she stands back up) and dropping small packets that make an explosion on the ground around her. Small start up lag but long end lag so that she only has enough time to hit people who have been well damaged, otherwise they wake up first. Also, since it hits on the ground around her, it would go underneath damaged shields that revealed the legs and hit enemies. In the air she would pull out and let go of of the packet, and it would make an explosion that hits anyone very close to her in all directions. It would hurt enemies instead of stunning them, and knock them away to get aerial people off her back.

 

[Frogsterking]

I would delete this if I could

 

[C.Olimar788]

King Boo and Petey are REALLY insignificant and really shouldn't be playable. They'd be fine bosses in Story mode or ATs or something but neither are any more than slightly recurring boss characters. They're really outmatched for playability in both importance and popularity by other Mario characters like Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., Geno (though he has the Square ownership...), and even the Baby Bros.

Don't get me wrong, I love the two (especially Petey). I just don't think they're anywhere near cut out to be playables.

 

[Chief Mendez]

On an unrelated note, I just graduated from "Smash n00b".

...and yet you're still double posting. Go figure.

Petey and King Boo are villains, and Mario's already got one of those. There's no precedent for two villains in a franchise, so they've got that against them too.

Lucas' Fire > Ness' Fire

 

[Frogsterking]

Tell me where I am double posting--?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Petey Piranha and King Boo...nah. Aside from Kart racing and other sports games, neither has been playable. *insert arguments that lots of other characters haven't been playable*

EDIT: ^Scroll up and you'll see where you posted twice in a row

 

[SirKibble]

Well, what if PK Rockin' and Love did the same exact thing as PK Fire but under a new name and look?

I suppose that would be okay.

But then I couldn't set off Blast Boxes...

Lucas' Fire > Ness' Fire

A piece of me dies every time someone suggests that...

I sense an apostasy has come upon us...

 

[Frogsterking]

Oops

Petey Piranha and King Boo...nah. Aside from Kart racing and other sports games, neither has been playable. *insert arguments that lots of other characters haven't been playable*

EDIT: ^Scroll up and you'll see where you posted twice in a row

I see, thanks. On other forums you could do that as long as the second post was unrelated to the first. I'll stop doing that.

Things like that are why I am still just a "Smash Child". Not a "Smash n00b", but just a "Smash Child". One day I will be recognized as something else slightly derogatory.



And I see now no King Boo/Petey Piranha. Who else would you suggest?