[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SkylerOcon]

Rare only made Conker to make fun of games that had violence and profanity just for the sake of it =D

Inside info, FTW!

 

[Chief Mendez]

He was around before Bad Fur Day though, as the star of a few horribly generic adventure games. So even if Rare did make BFD for that reason...it still seems like they just decided to sell the character out for some cheap laughs.

Which is probably a reason too.

 

[SirKibble]

Safe to say that's one third-party I definitely don't want filling the few slots they'll get...

 

[Mike87]

I wouldnt expect to see any more third party characters in SSB4, that seemed like a one-time thing.

 

[Mike87]

I wouldnt expect to see anymmore third party characters in SSB4, that seemed like a one-time thing.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Serious?

After Snake and Sonic, the mainstream/casual consumer (read: the people that Ninty makes the money from Smash Bros. off of) would be disgusted not to see non-Nintendo characters in the next game.

And for that matter, so would most of us.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I wouldnt expect to see any more third party characters in SSB4, that seemed like a one-time thing.

Too late...Snake and Sonic...have broken down the doors!

Besides, who's complaining about them these days?

 

[Roihu]

Too late...Snake and Sonic...have broken down the doors!

Besides, who's complaining about them these days?

A lot of people, actually.
I.e Snake being too strong and Sonic being so suckish and generic.
Though no one really hates them for being in.

 

[flyinfilipino]

A lot of people, actually.
I.e Snake being too strong and Sonic being so suckish and generic.
Though no one really hates them for being in.

Wellllll...that's what I meant. P

 

[Testament27]

they deserve spots. the cast right now is ok, the game just needs a severe re tweaking in terms of balancing gameplay. I think they should do what capcom used to do, release a new balanced version of the game, add 2 chars, and call it brawl: championship edition. voila.

 

[Chief Mendez]

they deserve spots. the cast right now is ok, the game just needs a severe re tweaking in terms of balancing gameplay. I think they should do what capcom used to do, release a new balanced version of the game, add 2 chars, and call it brawl: championship edition. voila.

OMIGODNO

That is what killed the Street Fighter franchise after 2. If Nintendo does that with Smash Bros.--THEIR ONLY FIGHTING SERIES--then I will actually have reason to maybe boycott the game wait for the price to go down/buy it used.

 

[ducky285]

OMIGODNO

That is what killed the Street Fighter franchise after 2..

I thought switching throws to a two-button command is what killed Street Fighter.

Or the sheer lack of SFII characters in Street Fighter III.

Or the goofy art style of the Alpha series.

Or the piece of **** they called the EX series.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I thought switching throws to a two-button command is what killed Street Fighter.

Or the sheer lack of SFII characters in Street Fighter III.

Or the goofy art style of the Alpha series.

Or the piece of **** they called the EX series.

The fact that there are that many "Street Fighter" games, and yet they're barely up to 4 numerically is what made me stop buying them. I haven't bought a SF game since 2 Turbo...

But yeah, the actual mechanics could've been better (though I prefer the combination throw, myself), but it's a sort of "Melee vs. Brawl" difference: not enough to have made me stop playing the games, by themselves.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I think they should make a Melee 2.0 for the competetive community and a Brawl 2.0 for the casual noobs

 

[metaXzero]

I think they should make a Melee 2.0 for the competetive community and a Brawl 2.0 for the casual noobs

Or "Melee style" and "Brawl style" as two modes.

Hey, what if they did something like Hyper Street Fighter (all versions of characters in one game).

 

[Illusive]

How many is too many?

Assuming perfect balance and individuality, how many characters is too many? I'd say unlimited provided a minimum relevance quota around or just below the level of the least relevant character in brawl (and I'm also one of those anti third party types).
Assuming they are all unique and have some sort of relevance, how many stages is too many? I'd say unlimited as well, though selecting could be a pain. I think every single stage from all three games (minus complete overlaps, no need for both sector z and corneria) should return, with updated graphics (I'd like to see a beautifully rendered OOT hyrule behind a hyrule castle remake, and the original princess peach's castle actually making sense with some mario galaxy theming or something) and some other adjustments if the stage is completely unplayable (cough, new pork city, cough).

 

[Greenstreet]

i reckon 50 absolute max, but even this is alot. 40 is a more appropriate one maybe? yeh probly 40.

 

[SirKibble]

I think they should make a Melee 2.0 for the competetive community and a Brawl 2.0 for the casual noobs players

Come on, man, we went over this already...

 

[MasterWarlord]

So long as the game becomes more balanced and tripping is removed, melee mechanics are not required. Sakurai actually succeeded in making the competitive scene much easier to get into, as I was nowhere near able to compete in Melee but now can be a serious threat at tournies in Brawl. Really, wouldn't the meleers who are sore in the butt be happy if the game was balanced (As in, nobody in bottom or top tier at least) and there was no tripping?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Really, wouldn't the meleers who are sore in the butt be happy if the game was balanced (As in, nobody in bottom or top tier at least) and there was no tripping?

No, because it still wouldn't be Melee.

(P.S. - I still stink at Brawl)

(P.S.S. - MasterWarlord: Ivy isn't evil; she only cares about destroying Soul Edge herself + she can wield Soul Calibur)

 

[MasterWarlord]

No, because it still wouldn't be Melee.

True, they'll probably never be pleased.

(P.S. - I still stink at Brawl)

*Owns at brawl* Chain grab bair edgeguard waddle spamming god recovery ftw! Dedede 08!

(P.S.S. - MasterWarlord: Ivy isn't evil; she only cares about destroying Soul Edge herself + she can wield Soul Calibur)

You read my Cervantes moveset? If you're that interested and got that kind of time on your hands, why not come into MYM topic?

As for Ivy being evil, she canonically teamed up with Nightmare, Astaroth and Lizardman in Soul Calibur to get the Soul Edge shards. She also laughs evily in a lot of her attacks. Namco clearly considers her evil, saying there's darkness within her soul, putting her on the SC4 box art for the PS2 version alongside Nightmare and Darth Vader.

 

[SmashChu]

Serious?

After Snake and Sonic, the mainstream/casual consumer (read: the people that Ninty makes the money from Smash Bros. off of) would be disgusted not to see non-Nintendo characters in the next game.

And for that matter, so would most of us.

No one would care. There was little change in Melee and Brawl's sales so 3rd parties contributed nothing. Also, it's hard to add a third party character, so even then you may run into more problems.

Guest are usually a one time thing. I'm sure people were upset at a lack of Link in SC3 and they'll probably be sore with no Star Wars in SC5, but that's the deal with guest. THey are guest. Someone who doesn't live in your house is a rguest and that means they eventually get out.

 

[Frogsterking]

Character List

Characters if Frogsterking made SSB4:



Mario Universe:

Mario (much better, has a Dr. Mario costume)
Luigi
Peach
Bowser (much better, >B is replaced with a fireball projectile)
Bowser Jr. (Moveset is very similar to Bowser, except he is weak and fast)
Yoshi (infinitely better-he's been around since SSB64 he deserves a good character)
Geno


Pokemon Universe:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff (has best airgame in the game)
Mewtwo
Pokemon Trainer (little tweaks to make each pokemon better)


Zelda Universe:

Link (much better)
Zelda (No shiek, some attacks are quicker and build up damage faster)
Ganondorf (decloned, uses sword and magic for attacks)

Kirby Universe:

Kirby
King Dedede (No more chain grab DDD...sorry )
Meta-Knight (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)


Star Fox Universe:

Fox
Krystal (uses staff)
Wolf (decloned)


Donkey Kong Universe:

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool


Fire Emblem Universe:

Marth
Ike
Linda


Metroid Universe:

Samus (much better)
ZSS (separate character, only included for female rep)
Ridley


Captain Falcon Universe:

Captain Falcon (obviously a lot better, as I would aim for balance)
Samurai Goroh


Mother:

Ness
Lucas (decloned)


Pikmin Universe:

Cpt. Olimar


Wario Ware Universe:

Wario


Kid Icarus Universe:

Pit


Other:

Sonic (much better)
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)
Snake (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)
Isaac (has cool projectile like the Assist Trophy does, but smaller obviously)
R.O.B (yes I would keep him, he has an interesting moveset and adds variety)



What do you think should be changed? Thats only 42, can you help me think of 8-20 more? I'm thinking more pokemon, maybe put Falco back in.

 

[SirKibble]

Characters if Frogsterking made SSB4:



Mario Universe:

Mario (much better, has a Dr. Mario costume)
Luigi
Peach
Bowser (much better, >B is replaced with a fireball projectile)
Bowser Jr. (Moveset is very similar to Bowser, except he is weak and fast) You call later for characters to be decloned, but you want a Bowser clone in this guy??
Yoshi (infinitely better-he's been around since SSB64 he deserves a good character)
Geno Emphasis on "no."


Pokemon Universe:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff (has best airgame in the game)
Mewtwo This guy is old and overrated; he ain't comin' back.
Pokemon Trainer (little tweaks to make each pokemon better)
We'll almost definitely get a new Pokemon, one that isn't Mewtwo or Lucario, in the next game. Probably one from the 5th generation, so it's not like you could name one specifically...


Zelda Universe:

Link (much better)
Zelda (No shiek, some attacks are quicker and build up damage faster) So you want to take from Zelda her transformation, which is what makes her unique, or at least did in Melee, since now we have PT...
Ganondorf (decloned, uses sword and magic for attacks)
Why no Toon Link, out of curiosity?

Kirby Universe:

Kirby
King Dedede (No more chain grab DDD...sorry )
Meta-Knight (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)


Star Fox Universe:

Fox
Krystal (uses staff) Ugh...
Wolf (decloned)
I don't even use or like the guy, but Falco needs to stay.

Donkey Kong Universe:

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool


Fire Emblem Universe:

Marth
Ike
Linda You mean Lyndis, more commonly known as Lyn? Wouldn't be a bad idea, though I'd prefer someone who doesn't use a sword and doesn't have blue hair...


Metroid Universe:

Samus (much better)
ZSS (separate character, only included for female rep) Separate character?! Remind me how that works again... They're the same person...
Ridley


Captain Falcon Universe:

Captain Falcon (obviously a lot better, as I would aim for balance)
Samurai Goroh


Mother:

Ness
Lucas (decloned) As is, he's really not that cloned. You don't play Ness/Lucas and just easily pick up and transition to the other. These two aren't really that cloned, when you think about it.


Pikmin Universe:

Cpt. Olimar


Wario Ware Universe:

Wario


Kid Icarus Universe:

Pit


Other:

Sonic (much better)
Ice Climbers
Game and Watch (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)
Snake (NERF, as I'd aim for balance)
Isaac (has cool projectile like the Assist Trophy does, but smaller obviously)
R.O.B (yes I would keep him, he has an interesting moveset and adds variety)
MegaMan
Bomberman


What do you think should be changed? Thats only 42, can you help me think of 8-20 more? I'm thinking more pokemon, maybe put Falco back in.

Comments, etc. in LIME.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Mewtwo's popularity will stick around for SSB5, he'll still be being requested to come back. Any hits from his popularity due to new generations he's already taken. Lucario's popularity is going to take a massive nose dive, which puts the two of them on at least equal footing for the fifth Pokemon spot (The fourth spot being the 5th gen Pokemon.).

Why do we like Mewtwo? He's the only Pokemon that's not completely and utterly generic.

 

[SirKibble]

Funny, isn't it? He's the only Pokemon who's technically a clone.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I honestly don't see the appeal in any other Pokemon not named Mewtwo besides being "cool" or "cute". Mewtwo is an actual character, while all the other non legendary Pokemon are generic species. The other legendary Pokemon are mindless overpowered beasts, at least Mewtwo has a personality and motive. Mewtwo is the only true non human "character" in the entire series of Pokemon, IMHO.

 

[SirKibble]

I really think all Pokemon's got left to do in Smash is promote the latest installation in the franchise. They have the classics (Pikachu and Jigglypuff), the character you actually control in the games (Pokemon Trainer)... What's left? A standout Pokemon from the latest game. That's why I believe that neither Mewtwo nor Lucario will make it into the next game. As a Lucario user, I'd like to see him make it, but I'm trying to be realistic. And I don't even want Mewtwo back... I don't see what appeal he has anymore. Characters who get put into Smash create a personality for themselves (see Lucario, Captain Falcon, the Ice Climbers...), so that's not really a big factor, and that's about all he has over other Pokemon.

 

[MasterWarlord]

If Pokemon only gets four characters in Smash Brothers 4, I'll facepalm. It could've used five reps in Brawl for Mewtwo, but axing both Lucario and Mewtwo in SSB4 to keep the reps for Pokemon down to 4? There would be a massive uproar. If any series deserves 5 reps, it's Pokemon, and Mario will probably get 5 in SSB4 anyway.

If you want to know why people are so angry over the fact that Mewtwo was axed, it's because he has a unique moveset that in reality is nothing like Lucario's. Falco, a clone, Toon Link, another clone and the Ice Climbers, a completely generic character, made it in over him, which is what truly fans the flames. Logic seems to have been cast aside with Mewtwo's lack of inclusion to make the character select screen look nice.

 

[SirKibble]

In all reality, Pokemon has more than 4 reps already, when you consider Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. I agree Mewtwo's hardly a Lucario clone, but I don't think there's any reason (aside from fan demand) to put him in Smash again. Same goes to Lucario, most likely.

 

[flyinfilipino]

List.

You didn't really add much to what we already have :/

I honestly don't see the appeal in any other Pokemon not named Mewtwo besides being "cool" or "cute". Mewtwo is an actual character, while all the other non legendary Pokemon are generic species. The other legendary Pokemon are mindless overpowered beasts, at least Mewtwo has a personality and motive. Mewtwo is the only true non human "character" in the entire series of Pokemon, IMHO.

Most of that "character" comes from the movies/anime though. I thought we didn't approve of that?

You read my Cervantes moveset? If you're that interested and got that kind of time on your hands, why not come into MYM topic?

As for Ivy being evil, she canonically teamed up with Nightmare, Astaroth and Lizardman in Soul Calibur to get the Soul Edge shards. She also laughs evily in a lot of her attacks. Namco clearly considers her evil, saying there's darkness within her soul, putting her on the SC4 box art for the PS2 version alongside Nightmare and Darth Vader.

I don't have that much time

I was just skimming the last page and caught your large picture of Ivy. Ivy may have been teamed up with the bad guys before, but after she found out Cervantes was her father (in SC2), she vowed to destroy Soul Edge. She was completely purified right before SC4, so with her new soul, she's capable of wielding Soul Calibur. (She looks good standing next to Darth Vader)

EDIT - SirKibble: Don't forget that popularity in Smash can be a factor as well.

 

[manhunter098]

In all reality, Pokemon has more than 4 reps already, when you consider Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. I agree Mewtwo's hardly a Lucario clone, but I don't think there's any reason (aside from fan demand) to put him in Smash again. Same goes to Lucario, most likely.

What other reason is there for adding a character though? Besides of course the whims of the designers.

 

[metaXzero]

Whoever said Ivy's evil doesn't know their ****. She's an anti-hero.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Soul Calibur 4 tries to advertise her as evil despite her reformed motives, and she has a very dark past compared to the other "goody" characters such as kilik. I don't know about you, but most "goody" girls don't dress like that or laugh evily as their enemies squirm in their grasp.

It's IMPOSSIBLE that we won't have Mewtwo or Lucario in SSB4. Pika, Jiggs and PT will return, and there WILL be a 5th gen rep. Having still just four reps after so many games would be a crime when there are two characters both begging to return with large fan demand. Pokemon is Nintendo's second biggest series, it WILL get 5 reps. Unless the 5th gen has multiple popular choices for the 5th slot (Unlikely), Mewtwo or Lucario WILL return.

 

[SirKibble]

EDIT - SirKibble: Don't forget that popularity in Smash can be a factor as well.

I'm well-aware of it. It can be a factor. But if it didn't work for Ridley and Krystal, I don't see Mewtwo coming back.

What other reason is there for adding a character though? Besides of course the whims of the designers.

Those whims play a huge role. We've got characters like the Ice Climbers and R.O.B. where I'm sure a lot of people would've preferred to see characters like King K.Rool and Geno.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'm well-aware of it. It can be a factor. But if it didn't work for Ridley and Krystal, I don't see Mewtwo coming back.

Well, I meant popularity after already having been in a Smash game (a la Ice Climbers and Sheik). So yeah.

Soul Calibur 4 tries to advertise her as evil despite her reformed motives, and she has a very dark past compared to the other "goody" characters such as kilik. I don't know about you, but most "goody" girls don't dress like that or laugh evily as their enemies squirm in their grasp.

It's IMPOSSIBLE that we won't have Mewtwo or Lucario in SSB4. Pika, Jiggs and PT will return, and there WILL be a 5th gen rep. Having still just four reps after so many games would be a crime when there are two characters both begging to return with large fan demand. Pokemon is Nintendo's second biggest series, it WILL get 5 reps. Unless the 5th gen has multiple popular choices for the 5th slot (Unlikely), Mewtwo or Lucario WILL return.

She might be a bit sadistic, but that doesn't make her really 'evil'. Eh, maybe she just likes her look.

Spoiler

I do

What's in your soul?

Ehh...I wouldn't say things are impossible....

 

[SirKibble]

Well, I meant popularity after already having been in a Smash game (a la Ice Climbers and Sheik). So yeah.

Ah, right. Well, concerning that, I think since he got cut from Brawl, it pretty well shows that the developers don't have him too high on their priority list as far as returning characters go. Maybe if they have more time for SSB4, they'll stick him in, but I doubt that.

 

[metaXzero]

soul Calibur 4 Tries To Advertise Her As Evil Despite Her Reformed Motives, And She Has A Very Dark Past Compared To The Other "goody" Characters Such As Kilik. I Don't Know About You, But Most "goody" Girls Don't Dress Like That Or Laugh Evily As Their Enemies Squirm In Their Grasp.

Anti-hero!

 

[Frogsterking]

You didn't really add much to what we already have :/

Correct. I compiled what we did have.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Ah, right. Well, concerning that, I think since he got cut from Brawl, it pretty well shows that the developers don't have him too high on their priority list as far as returning characters go. Maybe if they have more time for SSB4, they'll stick him in, but I doubt that.

Probably as a secret character again, if at all.

@Frogsterking: Oh. That's what I get for skimming.