OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[Blistering Speed]

wth tenki do you even read. yes sheik can hit you from everything (wow that applies to every character in the game except maybe an ike fair lol), but thats where being a human comes in to play. its quite easy to time the bair/sideb/dash attack to hit sheik inbetween the swings. sheik chain sweeping and whatnot is based on the ability for ther shiek player to react and stop your approach, so why isnt the sonic player capable of reacting to the chain swings?

srsly just spam dash attack or sideb hop from behind, i got through more often than not

Chain control is within the realms of human capability, it's just Sheik is so rarely played no one has put it to use in tournament yet, not to mention what Sheik players there are haven't dedicated themselves to it. Putting getting through the chain down to human error when humans are capable of consistency is stupid.

 

[Kinzer]

Silly questions and this will probably be more Brawl technique than Sonic (though my troubles are with Sonic):

How do I get through an Olimar camping on one side of stage (Luigi's mansion is a good one) who just spams a smash (such as down smash). Any reliable ways that don't end in me taking a bit of damage?

Also, what is the best way to counter peach doing short hops and floating just above the ground to do aerials? Is there anything to do besides shield grabbing them out of it)?

Good luck fighting Olimar on Luigi's Mansion... 'nuff said.

Seriously though, you'll have one hell of a time since Olimar's attacks are already linear, and the mansion just makes this fight even more problematic since you have next to no way to move around, my best answer to you would be ASC, otherwise you'll have to find a gap in the player's habits and work with/around those.

Try spacing your aerials/UTilts (Lol USmash), this is the best Answer Sonic has against Peach and her aerial game. Now if they like to hang right above the ground you have the (added) option to do up-angled FTilts/DTilts, this not only gives you a boost in FTilt range (maybe), but it can also deal 1% more damage (I got this from another thread too).

 

[Browny]

Chain control is within the realms of human capability, it's just Sheik is so rarely played no one has put it to use in tournament yet, not to mention what Sheik players there are haven't dedicated themselves to it. Putting getting through the chain down to human error when humans are capable of consistency is stupid.

thats nice. now prove that this technique is unbeatable. i mean real, hard evidence that I cant possibly dispute. coz until then, this is all theory (theory from mid last year i should add). I can get through it on a regular basis and me and my brother couldnt find any method of swinging the chain to keep hitting me as long as i did the proper technique for getting through it

 

[Blistering Speed]

Erm, you made the Sonic hitbox thread, you should know chain outranges everything Sonic can do and he has no projectile to get through (Spring works, but that's why you do it under a platform). It's as simple as that, what more do you need?

 

[Browny]

FFS. does anyone read anything around here. shieks chain is not a permanent hitbox. you simply stand outside its range, wait until the chain is swinging backwards and either sideb, dash attack or SH bair. its not that hard. or you can still just roll dodge into sheik with a backwards roll and hit her/shield grab

 

[Blistering Speed]

*Sigh* No. I'm done refuting this, it's not a point of debate, it's a fact. Actually experiment with the chain yourself.

If I recall correctly, chain hits every two frames, Sonic's roll doesn't have complete invincibility lol. And swinging it backwards? You realise Sheik doesn't have to swing the chain all the way forward and all the way back right? Hell, maybe you dont.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

what is a good strategy for a Sheik anyway

 

[thecatinthehat]

punish spring > dairs with vanish or up-smash

do not try to gimp Sonic. EVER.

play safe. any decent Sonic will be looking for any mistakes to capitalize on.

learn to DI his throws the right direction. tech the d-throw.

 

[ElemMasterZeph92]

What should the ideal sonic player style be? Technical, Aggressive, Passive, or etc. ?

 

[~TBS~]

What should the ideal sonic player style be? Technical, Aggressive, Passive, or etc. ?

depends on how you play. thats player dependant.

Oh yeah, guys? Thank you for the help on Sheik! I got the guy back, real good. I got Sheik beat now.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm glad to hear that Speed.

Oh and as for playstyle, that's mostly up to the player's choice, but I think the best style of Sonic would be to play a passive/defensive oriented game focusing on aggressiveness when called for and punishment of players miSteaks.

 

[Chis]

What's this DDP people keep going on about?

 

[Tenki]

dash dance pivot

like, foxtrot > dashdance to foxtrot backwards and turn immediately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUt7qjfh6Y

like that

 

[Chis]

Thanks Tenki, but what's the applications? Is it just stutters steps out of it? And I looked at that thread, pivot tilts? :/

 

[thecatinthehat]

you can do anything out of the ddp.

it's a great tool for spacing.

 

[Tenki]

Well, it's like a pretty good baiting tool if you can do it pretty quickly.

Like:
Extended foxtrot away - "Oh okay, he's leaving, unshield tim-"
DDP back - "OSHI- HE'S COMING BACK! SPOTDODGE!"
Run behind and turnaround + grab

Or Foxtrot forward when opponent is near the edge+DDP back towards center - opponent rolls towards center
Catch opponent with a reverse F-smash facing away from stage.

Espy uses a bunch of DDP in some of his vids actually.

 

[thecatinthehat]

why does every Sonic I see insist on up-smashing after their SDR clanks?

 

[Chis]

Maybe it's because they planned to jump using the C-stick as soon as they hit you? But it clanked, so they did an up smash instead.

 

[Kinzer]

I hate it when that happens.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

What's the best way to preform a SH Fair? I keep having problems with lag at the end of this move when I short hop, and it prevents me from comboing.

 

[Tenki]

you hit A/C-stick as soon as you hit jump?

you should also probably be using a jump button instead of tap jump to do this.

so like, Y+ (A,C-stick side) or X + (A, C-stick side)

 

[Kinzer]

Can Sonic's Fair really be ACed from a rising SH Tenki?

 

[Tenki]

..

...
yeah?

If you do it right, you can actually even fastfall and still land, but you save so little time doing that it's almost not worth it lol

 

[~TBS~]

The DDP Revolution+KID CG!

Oh yeah, got a quick question. When using the KID CG, its uthrow>SDC>uthrow, right? Now lets revolutionize that stuff. I've been messing around with DDP applications and came across the uthrow>DDP>regrab. Is this technically more reliable than the uthrow to SDC? Is this even worth me using in an actual match?

 

[Camalange]

How do you deal with Wolf's shield pressure?

lol, we always bring up Wolf. I should listen to character specific discussions more.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, got a quick question. When using the KID CG, its uthrow>SDC>uthrow, right? Now lets revolutionize that stuff. I've been messing around with DDP applications and came across the uthrow>DDP>regrab. Is this technically more reliable than the uthrow to SDC? Is this even worth me using in an actual match?

Well, if the opponent DI's the Uthrow (say they DI right) then you should Foxtrot to the right, and then reverse SDC.

I find this to be more reliable than the Uthrow > DDP simply because of the safety of punishing out of shield. It's still a great mix up tactic though that I find Espy to take great advantage of.

 

[Kinzer]

I always thought it was just KID getting lucky with U-Throw chains, but I didn't realize he did SDSCs LOL.

To answer the question though I would have to check, I am very inconsistent with what I do out of DDPs, sometimes I just running grab in either direction, or pivot grab, in either direction too lol.

If you wanted to revolutionize something Speed this would be your chance, you could be the guy to find out what the Hell kind of grabs Sonic can do out of the DDPs and just how to do them so they can be done at will! XD

Edit: Wolf's shield pressure? I'm not aware, can you tell me what moves Wolf does that drain your shield?

 

[Camalange]

To add on to what SM5 said, I just pulled off a DDP to a grab today. Like, the other guys was just falling towards the ground, I DDP'd behind him and back to grab him right before he hit the ground. This is basically the same thing but applying it to Uthrow

To clarify what I mean by Wolf's shield pressure I mean this.

Barraging shield with Fsmash/Dsmash. Then when they don't do that, grab, Dthrow > Fsmash/Dsmash

:_:

It's so weird, sometimes I can shield the Fsmash and grab, but if I don't powershield, I just get shield pushed away and then he just does another smash. Maybe I should just powershield smashes moar.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like all of Sonic's OoS options get beaten out by Wolfs...moveset, lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Certainly the speed and spamability of Wolf's attacks is worthy of mention, but yes getting down your PSing for this match is almost a necessity. I find that if I get pushed back by any of Wolf's attacks and intended on striking back, the worst option you could have is you DA, right? Maybe you can still FTilt OoS if you aren't pushed back far enough or in the case of Wolf FSmashing you since he moves with it, that seems to be much easier to punish OoS than say a DSmash.

 

[~TBS~]

Cam, did you tilt (ftilt more preferably) OoS? From what I can tell, Fsmash isnt used much, because it leaves Wolf open. So, they well pressure your shield with ALOT of smashes and bairs. And does aerials OoS work on him?

 

[Kinzer]

Probably none, Wolf has just enough aerial acceleration to space Bairs on you and be relatively safe from punishment (again, iDA or whatever the hell it is is just awesome).

Your best bet is to stay grounded with Wolf, and only take the skies of you intend on Uair juggling/Spinshots. Probably why PSing is even more encouraged for this matchup.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, Wolf's Bair > Sonic...sadly

But I might just use IDA OoS instead, because I tried Ftilt and such, but Wolf's options just are faster. Maybe IDA will work.

Once the second match came around, I realized you couldn't gimp him. So I just grabbed the edge, forcing him to recover high and land on the stage. Then just punish the ending lag with Bair and get him back off stage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im kinda upset that we are having this convo...

ive been doing DDPs in my KID CGs since like january, seriously.

If you ever played marth or CF in melee you should know what DDP is used for...

you use it to run away from attacks and run back in fast enough to punish their lag

i think its more reliable than just running in a circle yes.

also, if you cant shield grab wolfs f smash, i dont know what to tell you son, you dont even have to ps it.

but if you want to make it easy, stand right at the tip of a wolfs f smash range and just wait, they cant help themselves but to try and fsmash you, and at that point its really easy to shield grab, personally, i think sonic loses to wolf on the ground but thats just a personal thing

 

[Kinzer]

That's why Wolf has the advantage.

 

[Camalange]

stuff about DDP

I just explain to the masses. This IS the rFAQ after all. It's only natural to discuss whatever, whenever.

but if you want to make it easy, stand right at the tip of a wolfs f smash range and just wait, they cant help themselves but to try and fsmash you, and at that point its really easy to shield grab, personally, i think sonic loses to wolf on the ground but thats just a personal thing

That's why Wolf has the advantage.

Yeah..

No worries though, it's just something I need to get used to. I don't play enough Wolves, but I'll get it :/

 

[Kinzer]

Like everything else, just takes a little bit of practice before you can get it down, it's not like Wolf is unwinnable let alone a hard matchup once you get it down. :3

 

[Tenki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4t6W9OYBOA#t=0m30s

pay attention to the kill combo on wolf.

 

[marktaylor]

Re :

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[Camalange]

What is this I don't even
VV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4t6W9OYBOA#t=0m30s

pay attention to the kill combo on wolf.

 

[Panix]

So, whats this i hear about everyone being able to tech out of sonics down throw?

video or link to a thread? Can't seem to find it.

 

[Kinzer]

There is no vidja, and the thread is about as informative as a preschooler's reading book.

It's just timing.

The cake is a lie!