OFFICIAL Sonic rFAQ! New to Sonic? Have a quick question? Ask it here!

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Depends. Down Edge drop or away edge drop?

**** it. Shuttle Loop.

 

[Fox089]

how do u get better wit sonic when ur use to him?

 

[Kinzer]

With all due serious though, you'll have to rephrase that, I don't quite get what you're asking. If you're asking how do you get betetr with sonic once you feel like you're used to him, just keep playing around with him, there's always room for improvement.

 

[Neon Ness]

I miss ROOOOY.

Questionne.

Would you guys consider up throw a "KO move"? About what % range does it KO medium weight characters like Mario?

I've seen Sonics KO with it before, but I'm just tryna see how practical it is.

 

[Kinzer]

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=67499

You can find the answer here, N.Ness.

 

[thecatinthehat]

it'll KO when they're >200% (give or take a few depending on their weight).

 

[Neon Ness]

Thank yeh. Learned something new today.

Oh yeah, Kinzer, at the bottom of your post on the page it said you were looking for a signature for AiB... If you're still looking for one, I could make one for you. PM me with any specifics if you're interested.

 

[darkNES386]

how do u get better wit sonic when ur use to him?

Come again?

 

[Tenki]

how do u get better wit sonic when ur use to him?

if ur use 2 him, and oso master of character,
ol u can do now is get better at Smash.

 

[Kinzer]

Thanks for the offer N.Ness, but KC said he would offer to do my sig already... however you'll be next in-line if he can't get it done.

Thx for the offer though! ^_^

 

[~TBS~]

...This sucks.

I play this good Sheik player yesterday, and got him to his last life, while I had 2. Were fighting, and he ko's me, i rarely got a scratch on him. Then he goes into these tilt combos and quick aerials. I got 2 stocked, and rarely got 5 hits on him. So, WTF is wrong with me? Is it the way i play or what? I need some kind of guidance from you guys. Why is it that I am getting beat like this?

 

[Tenki]

Have you played a Sheik before? :l

 

[~TBS~]

yes. But this guy was just crazy. I couldnt freaking hit him.

 

[Tenki]

Sheik is like that sometimes :l

DI need to item get.

 

[~TBS~]

Sheik is like that sometimes :l

DI need to item get.

DI, huh? I tried but, by the time i would be out of the ftilt range, "hello utilt to fair."

And why is Sheik so hard to hit? Once again, i think this has something to do with the way I play.

 

[Tenki]

Well, I meant DI away from the aerial followups. The tilts are kind of meh to handle.
-----------------
That depends on how good the Sheik is at camping.

If your opponent knows how to force you to do certain movements by throwing out relatively lagless moves, then it's not too hard to camp your slower/more limited options, especially those that force you into the air to approach, and even moreso if they can outprioritize your moves (because then it becomes a matter of whether or not you airdodge).

You didn't really describe how he actually got you to approach though, you only talked about the raep that happened after you got caught and not being able to break it.

It's kind of like complaining about getting infinite CG'd by IC's without talking about how you got grabbed in the first place. Except it's somewhat breakable and more dynamic xD

 

[~TBS~]

well, you that Sheik always uses needles to force the approaches. I tried many options, ASC, walking p-shield, jump over to fair, but It just didnt...work. oh yeah, i probably should have mentioned this earlier: it was wifi with a blue connection. It was no input lag, at all.

 

[Nixernator]

Sonics Bthrow has invincy frames yah?
Does that mean on Green Greens you can Bthrow them into bombs without getting hurt?

 

[Tenki]

in the norfair fight vs p3's Falcon, I tried to check that by B-throwing P3 into lava and I got hit.

>__>

 

[Blistering Speed]

Psh, that Sheik doesn't sound too untouchable. One that pulls a chain out underneath a platform and swings it at you for the remaining 8 minutes, that's untouchable :].

 

[thecatinthehat]

well, you that Sheik always uses needles to force the approaches. I tried many options, ASC, walking p-shield, jump over to fair, but It just didnt...work. oh yeah, i probably should have mentioned this earlier: it was wifi with a blue connection. It was no input lag, at all.

WOW.

spinshot moar son..

 

[Kinzer]

Cat's kind of right.

Semi-sarcasm aside (because he isn't lying when he said SS works), Sheik isn't too hard of a matchup as long as you know how to C-C-C-Combo Breaker!!! and DI.

Unless the Sheik likes to play Zelda, you'll see that Sheik has quite a bit of trouble getting the final blow. Especially true when you just camp in your shield and just punish Sheik's attacks once you get the chance to do so OoS. Combos are always a nuisance though, but I find Spring very lovely in this case. Can't FTilt this.

If they're a bit more grab oriented, again just learn your DI and you shouldn't have to worry about getting followed-up by some more crap after, I do love Sonic's shield for this matchup.

Spam lots of Bairs and all that crap related to it, Sheik also has a priority problem (when it isn't needles/chain/Down-B), and since your single hits are more powerful, even if you manage to trade hits you're still better off in the long run. Sheik is also a bit on the lighter side, not to mention a fast faller, feel free to try and put the assault offstage if you can.

Let me know if this helps.

 

[B_AWAL]

Hey guys...

Kinda hosting a big tourney in Tally this weekend on sat.

U guys have any preferred techniques or strategies to use on

Snake's
Wario's
Olimar's
Toon Link's
&/or
Luigi's

I'm jus tryina make sure I'm being open-minded about this scenario U kno?

There are people comin from AL(Reflex, Will etc.), GA(Kismet, BigLuo etc) and FL (Seibrik, Afro, every1 in the top 10 PR except CO18 n etc.)

It's gonna get pretty F'ing rough...

This is supposed to be a broad question. Only answer if U feel like it. I'm just trying to make sure I don't forget anything important.

And about the Up-B when dying Up theory, I think that at a certain point no character can go any higher but Sonic won't die as long as he is in the Up-B motion. It's just sumthin I've been kinda trying out whenever I've had a chance. But in the end it normally just screws up my recovering ability when I'm tryina get back to the stage. I like to mindgame w/ B or UpB when I get a chance.

 

[Kinzer]

I know with LOLimar, it's all about being patient and finding player habits.

In fact, this LOLimar player got beat by me because all he did was like pivot grab and roll, he got read by a book!

(he then proceeded to beat everybody he came across in losers, apparently only I could punish his predictable play).

Same thing with Wario. If you rush in, you will only get Bite and FSmashed/**** on. You can punish Wario's attacks pretty decently OoS too (like if he Dairs you, just buffer an instant-DA).

If there's any advice I have for you concerning Snake, it's that you take port 4 if you can, and keep Snake in the air, he is in a much worse spot if he is in teh air and can't deal with you as well as he would be able to if he were on the ground.

 

[B_AWAL]

I know with LOLimar, it's all about being patient and finding player habits.

In fact, this LOLimar player got beat by me because all he did was like pivot grab and roll, he got read by a book!

(he then proceeded to beat everybody he came across in losers, apparently only I could punish his predictable play).

Same thing with Wario. If you rush in, you will only get Bite and FSmashed/**** on. You can punish Wario's attacks pretty decently OoS too (like if he Dairs you, just buffer an instant-DA).

If there's any advice I have for you concerning Snake, it's that you take port 4 if you can, and keep Snake in the air, he is in a much worse spot if he is in teh air and can't deal with you as well as he would be able to if he were on the ground.

Thanks... Never thought about Oli or Wario like that B4. I focus 2 much on mindgames and i guess I do need to be more patient.

N wut did U mean wen U said "like if he Dairs you, just buffer an instant-DA"

 

[Blistering Speed]

Unless the Sheik likes to play Zelda, you'll see that Sheik has quite a bit of trouble getting the final blow. Especially true when you just camp in your shield and just punish Sheik's attacks once you get the chance to do so OoS. Combos are always a nuisance though, but I find Spring very lovely in this case. Can't FTilt this.

Doesn't that shielding advice apply to every character? Sheik's shield pressure is pretty decent for Brawl standards.
F Tilt with the right decay true combo's you silly. Can F Tilt this. Said F Tilt also true combo's into U Smash tipper, so if we're assuming you're playing a good Sheik then killing isn't that great an issue either.

If they're a bit more grab oriented, again just learn your DI and you shouldn't have to worry about getting followed-up by some more crap after, I do love Sonic's shield for this matchup.

Sheik's grab game is the same as virtually any character who doesn't have a CG/Techchase, throw 'em and react to what they do. Sheik's main throw will most likely be F Throw, which sends you at the perfect height for an aerial followup (note, likely F Air). Don't get baited into airdodging because then she can do whatever she likes. Nothing's concrete, but there is danger of followup with the right prediction.

Spam lots of Bairs and all that crap related to it, Sheik also has a priority problem (when it isn't needles/chain/Down-B), and since your single hits are more powerful, even if you manage to trade hits you're still better off in the long run. Sheik is also a bit on the lighter side, not to mention a fast faller, feel free to try and put the assault offstage if you can.

Sheik doesn't have a priority problem. Bare in mind that Sheik's attack speed is faster then yours for virtually everything. Sonic's single hits don't appear any more damaging (other then B Air, but If we're comparing singular moves then Sheik's B Air outranges yours ^_-).

Psh, that Sheik doesn't sound too untouchable. One that pulls a chain out underneath a platform and swings it at you for the remaining 8 minutes, that's untouchable :].

I'd like this adressed above anything else though.

 

[Browny]

how does sheik not have a priority problem. Outside of chain and needles, I mean seriously, list all the disjointed attacks she has. but specifically, attacks which are disjointed enough to be safely spaced to deliberatley beat out other attacks with little risk of being punished.

I can tell you Sonics
Fsmash
Usmash
Utilt
Uair
Bair

and someone REALLY needs to show me what this untouchable chain stuff is. I tried it for a bit vs my brother, I was able to dash attack through it maybe 1/3 of the time or simply dash in there, take the hit of the non-tipper with low hitstun and jab sheik out of it. Even stand at max range, do a backwards roll (more invinci frames) and end up in shieks face, take the non tipper and try to hit her. Or you can just jump behind sheik and SH bair through the chain swings where its slower with less range. dash attack still works well. and side b invinci frames hop also worked on a regular basis

 

[~TBS~]

hmm...i dunno. Next time I play this guy, i'll try Kinzer. Blistering Speed, thank you for the tips. Sheik is too darn fast, I hate having a taste of my own medicine.\

@CiTH
no u, you know Spinshottin is wat u do. JK, i'll try to, but i dunno if it'll help.

 

[Kinzer]

Okay Blist, I'll give you some things, but the thing that caught my eye was that FTilt true-combos and all that jazz.

Maybe that works on other characters, but can you tell me how that will work with Sonic? You will be lucky to get 2-3 FTilts before a Sonic with half a brain would use Spring to break free of it (or you end the combo in an UTilt, take it or leave it), no matter how decayed it is (and I would think whatever has more hitstun would work, I know this is Brawl but don't fresh moves have at least some kind of stun?).

I still love the matchup though, it's too darn fun to fight somebody else who can keep up the speed that isn't a Sonic ditto.

 

[Marbo]

Silly questions and this will probably be more Brawl technique than Sonic (though my troubles are with Sonic):

How do I get through an Olimar camping on one side of stage (Luigi's mansion is a good one) who just spams a smash (such as down smash). Any reliable ways that don't end in me taking a bit of damage?

Also, what is the best way to counter peach doing short hops and floating just above the ground to do aerials? Is there anything to do besides shield grabbing them out of it)?

 

[Tesh]

I have a question that doesn't seem to be a strictly sonic issue. It may have something to do with his fall speed though.

I failed to power shield an attack while on the edge of a platform. It hit my shield and immediately showed my character fall down on this platform. I didn't take any damage. It first happened on smashville, so I immediately assumed it was because the platform moved with me, catching me as i fell off. But it also happened later on battlefield (to the opposing kirby as well). I asked a few people and someone told me I must have DIed back towards the platform.

So my question is....
Can you DI if something hits your shield(I have never heard of it)? If not, what happened and how can I control landing on the same platform when I am pushed off?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tenki]

There's a bit of shield SDI, I'm pretty sure.

And also a sort of shield push (from the attacker) that determines how far you slide/get pushed off the edge.

On SV, you're correct, the platform most likely moved towards you and re-caught you when you would have otherwise fell below it. We've also had some interesting shenanigans with the platform catching up during hitlag and letting Sonic do a crazy SDR>ASC>SDR>ASC.. etc combo lol


If the one on Battlefield happened to the Kirby, or at least the way it sounds here, then it makes sense. Kirby has better aerial control/floatiness so he can float back.

I've also seen Wario/Jigglypuff/GAW(?) do this.

But otherwise, Sonic falls too fast/accelerates horizontally too slow to be able to re-land on a non-moving platform.

 

[Tesh]

It happened to both of us on battlefield though, thats why I figured it must be something else. But there is actually SDI from shielded attacks? Can I do that if I don't fall off of a platform? Can I use it to shieldgrab multihits or attacks I didn't powershield properly? How do I SDI while in my shield? Using the smash directions resulting in rolling and grabbing for me (wiichuck).

 

[Browny]

and someone REALLY needs to show me what this untouchable chain stuff is. I tried it for a bit vs my brother, I was able to dash attack through it maybe 1/3 of the time or simply dash in there, take the hit of the non-tipper with low hitstun and jab sheik out of it. Even stand at max range, do a backwards roll (more invinci frames) and end up in shieks face, take the non tipper and try to hit her. Or you can just jump behind sheik and SH bair through the chain swings where its slower with less range. dash attack still works well. and side b invinci frames hop also worked on a regular basis

someone help me kill this misconception about untouchable chain RIGHT NOW

 

[Tenki]

@Tesh:
I just assume it's real though. Like if you get hit by Charizard flames or Falcon multijabs while shielding, you can sometimes see a 'shift' during the shield flash.

Someone with a colored name mentioned it somewhere (lol, sorry, can't remember) and confirmed it.

I can't test right now, but it's either done like regular SDI or with a lighter tilt @_@;

and someone REALLY needs to show me what this untouchable chain stuff is. I tried it for a bit vs my brother, I was able to dash attack through it maybe 1/3 of the time or simply dash in there, take the hit of the non-tipper with low hitstun and jab sheik out of it. Even stand at max range, do a backwards roll (more invinci frames) and end up in shieks face, take the non tipper and try to hit her. Or you can just jump behind sheik and SH bair through the chain swings where its slower with less range. dash attack still works well. and side b invinci frames hop also worked on a regular basis

someone help me kill this misconception about untouchable chain RIGHT NOW

there it is.

it's simple, he missed and/or didn't chaindrag when you were inside range to jab.

what makes it frustrating is that either you get hitstunn'd the whole time, or by the time you break through, you take like 50+ damage from chaindrag/misc hits.

But if you want to kill it forever, just put up a pic/vid comparing Sheik's max backward chain range and Sonic's B-air range and have tested proof that Sheik's chain can't just hit his extended hurtbox too.

And also space it so Sheik is further inside (not directly center) of the platform, so her back is further away from the edge.

 

[Tesh]

So the same as tilting my shield in the direction I want to go? So I just tilt my shield up and towards the platform to land back on it?

If its tilting the cstick, I am assuming its something I would be unable to do anyway right?

 

[Tenki]

So the same as tilting my shield in the direction I want to go? So I just tilt my shield up and towards the platform to land back on it?

If its tilting the cstick, I am assuming its something I would be unable to do anyway right?

It's a control stick kind of tilt/movement.
AFAIK, you can only shield SDI left/right on the ground.

I cbb'd to search for the thread where shield SDI was mentioned right now though ><;

If you were able to just float back on stage, the move that hit you off might have had really low shieldpush.

 

[Tesh]

If I can't SDI up out of my shield, how would a platform that only moves left and right be able to catch me? Or do I simply stall before actually falling?

(What does "cbb'd" mean? It took me a while to remember what "AFAIK" meant and I don't recall seeing the other acronym before)

IF (in theory) I can control the place I land, Is it possible to shield, SDI onto the platform and then tech the landing and counterattack? Because that is the only reason it would matter to me, aside from avoiding someone who would fall through and chase me.

EDIT
Ok, I checked urban dictionary and found out what this "cbb" is, as well as "tl;dr".

 

[Browny]

wth tenki do you even read. yes sheik can hit you from everything (wow that applies to every character in the game except maybe an ike fair lol), but thats where being a human comes in to play. its quite easy to time the bair/sideb/dash attack to hit sheik inbetween the swings. sheik chain sweeping and whatnot is based on the ability for ther shiek player to react and stop your approach, so why isnt the sonic player capable of reacting to the chain swings?

srsly just spam dash attack or sideb hop from behind, i got through more often than not

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. If I can't SDI up out of my shield, how would a platform that only moves left and right be able to catch me? Or do I simply stall before actually falling?

(What does "cbb'd" mean? It took me a while to remember what "AFAIK" meant and I don't recall seeing the other acronym before)

2. IF (in theory) I can control the place I land, Is it possible to shield, SDI onto the platform and then tech the landing and counterattack? Because that is the only reason it would matter to me, aside from avoiding someone who would fall through and chase me.

EDIT
Ok, I checked urban dictionary and found out what this "cbb" is, as well as "tl;dr".

1. basically when you leave the platform from a shielded attack like that, the character begins to tumble and flip around in the air. and sonics body horisontally will then go above the platform allowing him to land on it again.
A good way to envision it, is like teh long straight block in tetris. if you land it vertically and then rotate it right before it locks into place it will put you in the air and allow you to land again.

2. no because that kind of fall stun is similar to the footstool jump stun that someone suffers when they are in the air in that it is untechable, I often use that as a method to start jablocks