Official Metaknight Discussion

[AllyKnight]

well, i can't wait to see how an MK banned scene goes. ally will be rejoicing because the only player that can beat him will quit so its basically free money for him for the rest of his brawl career.

Wrong, I think D3s, Marths, Falcos, and all those chars that never gets TOO far because of MKS, will actually give me MUCH more trouble than THE ONLY MK that usually beats me.

Tyrant beat my Snake with his Marth and he doesnt main him, despise all the training Mikehaze and Havok have gaven him, I believe I wouldn't have an easy tourney.

 

[PottyJokes]

haha, ally. keep saying that. u know it'll be easy money.

 

[Dekar173]

oh wow, its maybe because they've mained MK for awhile and don't use different characters at a top level.wait, this isn't possible. every MK mains has 2 years tourney experience with every character in the game, i forgot.

That's what they get for playing through a flowchart instead of thinking.

 

[6Mizu]

Pro melee players tend to be inherently good at Brawl, Dr. PP recently did extremely well in a Brawl tournament as well.

<3 PP. He still freakin owes me a Friendly.

MK banned scene. Here's how it will go:

Take every MK filled spot. Replace with different characters.

Wrong, I think D3s, Marths, Falcos, and all those chars that never gets TOO far because of MKS, will actually give me MUCH more trouble than THE ONLY MK that usually beats me.

Tyrant beat my Snake with his Marth and he doesnt main him, despise all the training Mikehaze and Havok have gaven him, I believe I wouldn't have an easy tourney.

Your right Ally. But, that only happened because of his past training. Almost no one else would be able to pull that off.

 

[Remzi]

"That Ivan Ooze player is pro."

hahaahhaaa, dmg runs this thread, yall.

 

[stingers]

LOL nc just sucks at brawl. pp ****** us all isnt a surprise

 

[Dekar173]

Stingers has a point.

Plus it's PP, who doesn't want him to **** them?

 

[adumbrodeus]

haha, ally. keep saying that. u know it'll be easy money.

Lol, mk barely beats Snake, now toss in a few more characters that go even/beat him slightly and a ton more players to worry about.


Yeah... definitely cake for him.

<3 PP. He still freakin owes me a Friendly.

Everybody loves PP, he must have a PR firm or something.

LOL nc just sucks at brawl. pp ****** us all isnt a surprise

Yeah, but he's still WAY behind in the metagame just by the fact that he doesn't really play this game, so he just wins by rote prediction and covering options.

 

[stingers]

nc is way behind hte metagame too.
i play rob. lol

 

[Crow!]

Snake may or may not be the top character with MK gone. If I were organizing betting, I'd put the odds that he'd come on top higher than that of any other character. But it is clear that his level of domination, if it happened at all, wouldn't be anywhere near that MK has been enjoying.

Consider the beginning of Brawl's metagame. Snake WAS on top. But with him in everyone's crosshairs, he fell and eventually was surpassed by MK. Since then, the target has been on MK... who's never really fallen. Put the target on Snake once again, and...

For a theorycrafted explaination for why one can get better at the Snake matchup more easily than at the Meta Knight one, consider what Snake does versus what Meta Knight does. Meta Knight wins with long range, high mobility, and great attack speed. He shuts other characters' options down. Snake, on the other hand, pumps out a series of traps. He tries to overload your brain with too many variables to keep track of until you miss something and take a hit.

I would venture to say that there is much more that can be done to negate the effectiveness of traps with experience than to negate the effects of your opposing character's moves and motions being superior your own.

 

[6Mizu]

LOL nc just sucks at brawl. pp ****** us all isnt a surprise

Of course we do. It's because none of our good players from the past care enough to play vBrawl. They think it's dumb and because of it they play every other version of brawl except BBrawl and like I already said vBrawl.

 

[stingers]

what are you talking about mizu

 

[6Mizu]

what are you talking about mizu

I'm talking about how for example: Bill stopped playing a long time ago...

 

[stingers]

bill moved to washington...

 

[6Mizu]

bill moved to washington...

I know that's just an example. NM.

Check you visitor messages plz.

On topic: MK da' Bess!

 

[dj asakura]

On topic: MK da' Bess!

Bingo! Right back on topic.

 

[6Mizu]

Anyway, like I was saying...how the following sound? Because I think the only way to deal with MK is an LGL, etc.

Yea, MK is too good.
Meat Knight da' Bess!

On topic: I have a suggestion(Remember this is just a suggestion): Why not set a Edge Grab Limit for MK lower than the rest of the cast?

I think it's possible to make this game fair against MK without banning him if TOs were willing to make a few drastic changes.

-10 minute timer
-1 Fly under stage rule
-25 ledgegrabs
-MK can only CP neutrals, or ban Brinstar and Rainbow cruise
-Make Pictochat CP

Everything else just gives him too much of an advantage. But under these rules, at least Falco/Diddy/Snake/ICs all have a legit chance agaisnt him.

 

[etecoon]

I still can't tell if armada was actually being serious...I feel like I've heard "meta knight is justice" somewhere before...

 

[PottyJokes]

armada is serious. EU is serious.

 

[TKD]

Say all you want, but I know that almost the same players will keep winning just because they're good. I can't believe so many people put excuses when they aren't even on the way to high level play. They pretty much say "I can't improve because Meta Knight's in the game". Sound dumb? It's what I have to read every week.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Say all you want, but I know that almost the same players will keep winning just because they're good. I can't believe so many people put excuses when they aren't even on the way to high level play.

... TKD, did anyone on this thread self-reference (with the exception of current high-leveled players?).


While I maintain my initial position on this, discrediting it as possible because the initial crowd (and a number of the current regulars) are low-leveled players who blame mk for their losses ignores the many people with legitimate positions, or hell, that a legitimate position will ever develop.

 

[EPsilon933]

Say all you want, but I know that almost the same players will keep winning just because they're good. I can't believe so many people put excuses when they aren't even on the way to high level play. They pretty much say "I can't improve because Meta Knight's in the game". Sound dumb? It's what I have to read every week.

Normally, I'm neutral on the ban and don't play barlw, but I think I might agree with this mang. Man up, fools!

 

[etecoon]

TKD ain't mad
but everyone is mad

 

[AllyKnight]

tkd hasnt faced MK who knows how to fight Foxes lmao.That guy.

 

[DMG]

DJ to weave game to Dair or airdodge.

The metagame of Fox

 

[TKD]

Ally be trolling

 

[AllyKnight]

Ally be trolling

im not. its simply how it is lol. bet my crappy mk would beat your fox ;/ WC needs to step it up.

 

[TKD]

I think not. Even if I'm not as good as you, I've put enough effort into my characters to know them a bit.

 

[Flamingo]

im not. its simply how it is lol. bet my crappy mk would beat your fox ;/ WC needs to step it up.

Your C. Falcon would for sure.

 

[PottyJokes]

ally's mk wouldn't be beating tkd's fox. cause he'd be losing to a bowser / losing to a ganon instead.

 

[bigbucks]

tkd hasnt faced MK who knows how to fight Foxes lmao.That guy.

Even still the matchup is winnable enough that he can stand a chance with people that know it decently.

Now Pika, thats another story for fox.

 

[AllyKnight]

lol we'll see TKD hopefulyl I get to play you one day >.>

 

[Kewkky]

PottyJokes, you're not doing ANYTHING in this thread worth reading. I would suggest you should stop posting here and lurk the thread instead, all you're doing is looking to derail topics and piss off people.

I hate going into this thread and reading your posts because they are literally worth nothing. They haven't contributed a thing, and all they do is up your post count worse than what other people are doing. At least THEY are serious more times than they're not.


Just a warning.



PS: On-topic, a quick rebuttal... Metaknight is too good. It's obvious. The problems people have when playing against Snake compared to the problems people have when playing against MK screams "MK is way better", and the character is, not the players. The top mainers might be skilled (and they are), but the truth is that MK is giving them a boost larger than the boost Snake gives to his mainers. Just glimpsing at his option pool at all times and the speed of his attacks is enough to point out this conclusion. And not just that, but he's insane in more areas than one, two or three. Not to mention he has a legitimate strategy (which I still call pseudo-stalling) that can only be properly countered by himself, as well as an option to avoid pressure from other characters by accessing a route which a vast amount of the cast would be stupid to follow him through.

I still think that MK has to be dealt with. A few pages back (today I read 5 pages of 40-posts-per-page to get back on track), there were a number of pro-ban BBRs talking here against M2K, the only anti-ban representative of the BBR seen here for a while, and his stance was skewed due to his opinions being based on his inability to understand what others see (which I consider to be a form of elitism, he believes he's right and refuses to accept that everyone else who isn't him is right in this case). It was a funny sight, but I'm glad they're actively participating and keeping an eye on the discussions of this thread. It made me feel like there's still a possibility that MK will be banned (which is still "dealing with MK"), and made me wonder that if there's actually a majority of the BBR who are anti ban, where are they and why aren't they acting like leaders of the metagame and telling the players WHY they're anti-ban (besides the obvious "get better" remarks and the such)? Or WHY they view MK as non-banworthy?

 

[YellowPikmin]

I'm not a tournament player, so I'm not going to advocate a specific position, but I think there's something worth considering here.

Basically, I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say that no one would intentionally make a character really unbalanced. Now, of course, this doesn't really help the discussion too much if looked at in one way; when you're designing a game it's nearly impossible to fully predict what strategies are going to work competitively.

Looked at another way, though, it does open a certain possibility. Almost every time there was some kind of video while the game was in development, it was 4 players with items, not one on one battles. I think we can reasonably infer that the developers expected(rightly) that 90% of their target audience would be playing this game most of the time in 4 player mode with items. As such, when ensuring the game is balanced, they're going to be looking at this mode.

I only have my own, casual experience to go on here...but then again there are few item tournaments and no free for all tournaments, so that's all anyone has in this context...but anyways, I've noticed that light characters in general die much more quickly when 4playItem mode.


For the short of attention span, bottom line of this rambling mess is this: It's entirely possible that Meta Knight, or even other characters, might be grossly unbalanced if the game was designed with most of the focus on making sure that play seemed balanced in 4 play.

Please, if this is way off the mark, that's fine, just don't start a flame war. I'm just putting the idea out there, and we are talking about a VIDEO GAME, so no need to get tempers high.

 

[etecoon]

Basically, I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say that no one would intentionally make a character really unbalanced.

normally yes, you have to keep in mind that this wasn't intended to be a fighting game though and that it's creator went out of his way in other area's, admitting himself that he was doing it, to prevent if from being competitive. given the circumstances I think a lot of things like MK/snake in general, chain grabs, were probably intentional

 

[Aberu]

PottyJokes, you're not doing ANYTHING in this thread worth reading. I would suggest you should stop posting here and lurk the thread instead, all you're doing is looking to derail topics and piss off people.

I hate going into this thread and reading your posts because they are literally worth nothing. They haven't contributed a thing, and all they do is up your post count worse than what other people are doing. At least THEY are serious more times than they're not.


Just a warning.



PS: On-topic, a quick rebuttal... Metaknight is too good. It's obvious. The problems people have when playing against Snake compared to the problems people have when playing against MK screams "MK is way better", and the character is, not the players. The top mainers might be skilled (and they are), but the truth is that MK is giving them a boost larger than the boost Snake gives to his mainers. Just glimpsing at his option pool at all times and the speed of his attacks is enough to point out this conclusion. And not just that, but he's insane in more areas than one, two or three. Not to mention he has a legitimate strategy (which I still call pseudo-stalling) that can only be properly countered by himself, as well as an option to avoid pressure from other characters by accessing a route which a vast amount of the cast would be stupid to follow him through.

I still think that MK has to be dealt with. A few pages back (today I read 5 pages of 40-posts-per-page to get back on track), there were a number of pro-ban BBRs talking here against M2K, the only anti-ban representative of the BBR seen here for a while, and his stance was skewed due to his opinions being based on his inability to understand what others see (which I consider to be a form of elitism, he believes he's right and refuses to accept that everyone else who isn't him is right in this case). It was a funny sight, but I'm glad they're actively participating and keeping an eye on the discussions of this thread. It made me feel like there's still a possibility that MK will be banned (which is still "dealing with MK"), and made me wonder that if there's actually a majority of the BBR who are anti ban, where are they and why aren't they acting like leaders of the metagame and telling the players WHY they're anti-ban (besides the obvious "get better" remarks and the such)? Or WHY they view MK as non-banworthy?

It's obvious that it's not OBVIOUS, since many top ranking players of characters that aren't Metaknight have been antiban for a while. DEHF is a great example. If MK wasn't in the game I'm fairly confident that MikeHaze and DEHF would dominate the scene easily, but they are still antiban. TKD as well would have a very easy time winning without MK's, and it goes on and on. If it was OBVIOUS, as you said, then why is there such a divide in the community, and so many voices at the tops of power rankings that disagree with you?

And can you tell me why the Brawl Backroom gets some priority here? There aren't that many power ranked players in the Brawl Backroom. There aren't that many active brawl tourney attendees in the brawl backroom. Plenty of them have more of a chance to post here about Metaknight is overpowered, then they ever do of going to a tourney and proving it or being a victim of it. I think that the people you should listen to are the non-metaknight mains that are power ranked in their regions, and the non-metaknight mains that are winning nationals and/or placing in top 16 at large nationals. You should look at the results of nationals, which yes have more metaknight than other characters, but have plenty of metaknights that aren't placing well.

Side note to even more complainers, metaknight is not as bad, not worse, and not anywhere near the brokenness of Akuma, you people have to stop spouting that like a mantra as well.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I never placed well, so you could say the same thing about my opinion, but at least I'm trying to look at WHO is saying what, and not a brawl backroomer saying this (forgetting that many brawl backroomers that are pro ban here are not freagin active or placing well anyways).

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I like this post right here.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10290828&postcount=12391

I do. It's pretty cool.

 

[YellowPikmin]

normally yes, you have to keep in mind that this wasn't intended to be a fighting game though and that it's creator went out of his way in other area's, admitting himself that he was doing it, to prevent if from being competitive. given the circumstances I think a lot of things like MK/snake in general, chain grabs, were probably intentional

Yeah, basically what I'm suggesting. I'm assuming the designers figured "Eh, sure he's a bit fast, but he's Meta Knight, we gotta make him like that for it to be cool, besides they can just chuck Pokeballs at him"

 

[Turbo Ether]

Say all you want, but I know that almost the same players will keep winning just because they're good. I can't believe so many people put excuses when they aren't even on the way to high level play. They pretty much say "I can't improve because Meta Knight's in the game". Sound dumb? It's what I have to read every week.

^
High off a tournament win. MK destroys your character.

It's really hard to compare character's tools, guys.

 

[DMG]

It's obvious that it's not OBVIOUS, since many top ranking players of characters that aren't Metaknight have been antiban for a while. DEHF is a great example. If MK wasn't in the game I'm fairly confident that MikeHaze and DEHF would dominate the scene easily, but they are still antiban. TKD as well would have a very easy time winning without MK's, and it goes on and on. If it was OBVIOUS, as you said, then why is there such a divide in the community, and so many voices at the tops of power rankings that disagree with you?

And can you tell me why the Brawl Backroom gets some priority here? There aren't that many power ranked players in the Brawl Backroom. There aren't that many active brawl tourney attendees in the brawl backroom. Plenty of them have more of a chance to post here about Metaknight is overpowered, then they ever do of going to a tourney and proving it or being a victim of it. I think that the people you should listen to are the non-metaknight mains that are power ranked in their regions, and the non-metaknight mains that are winning nationals and/or placing in top 16 at large nationals. You should look at the results of nationals, which yes have more metaknight than other characters, but have plenty of metaknights that aren't placing well.

Side note to even more complainers, metaknight is not as bad, not worse, and not anywhere near the brokenness of Akuma, you people have to stop spouting that like a mantra as well.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I never placed well, so you could say the same thing about my opinion, but at least I'm trying to look at WHO is saying what, and not a brawl backroomer saying this (forgetting that many brawl backroomers that are pro ban here are not freagin active or placing well anyways).

This post is full of shame and disgrace.



















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