Official Metaknight Discussion

[Espy Rose]

Omni.

Seeing Ibuki in SSF4 made me hard.
Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Aiyyo homie I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

I know, I'm just pointing out what I posted.

For the rest of this topic now I'm questioning if people know what the term viable means. There is a difference between best viable option and less viable option.

Cause I'm hearing people say Peach and Co. aren't viable in Melee which is ludicrous.

 

[Zulu Nation]

Trust me, it's disproportionately large in my eyes. But have you seen Thiocyanide's response to Crow!'s post?

"And...?"

So either Thiocyanide has a different opinion or... I don't know.

In red is contradiction I see. You just used opinion.

Wanna redo that homie?

(No offense if some was taken)

@Kewky: Don't hurt me I was just saying what I felt I'll just shush on that >.<

P.S. I hate this back-up account it makes me feel new and my join date bugs me.

 

[Flayl]

In red is contradiction I see. You just used opinion.

Wanna redo that homie?

(No offense if some was taken)

I don't understand. How am I contradicting myself when I'm the one who stated that it was based on opinion?

 

[Spelt]

You mean the Tornado that most of the cast can pivot grab him out of, or beat it out with certain moves?

The Dsmash that is very punishable on block?

And the Shuttle loop that has a glide attack that clashes?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT THINGS IN BRAWL ARE PUNISHABLE?!?!?!??!!??!?!!?!?1


wow man, blew my mind right there.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, ledge grab rules are actually really common, and even without them you probably won't get planked.

I believe it was already shown that LGLs are non-competitive. Also, ever seen Plank play?

You mean the Tornado that most of the cast can pivot grab him out of, or beat it out with certain moves?

The Dsmash that is very punishable on block?

And the Shuttle loop that has a glide attack that clashes?

Aiyyo homie I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

Yeah. This. Old vid, still good for a laugh or two though.

 

[Zulu Nation]

You said that the three were opinionated but in reality you were saying that the graph (evidence) was misleading in a way to you. But anyways this silly arguement isn't gonna get us any where.

 

[Kewkky]

Nah, Zulu, I didn't mean that you were the reason for whatever I said, I mean in general. Both sides are always doing that, then they wonder "why did the last poll not mean anything? Why is the SBR-B so quiet? We as a community have a right to know!"... Obviously because of their lack of self-control!

 

[Turbo Ether]

The reason why I'm not as excited as Overswarm in debating over Metaknight:

Oh god. Can't wait.

Finally officially revealed. It's hard to remain interested in this debate now. This is sexy as hell.

 

[Flayl]

You said that the three were opinionated but in reality you were saying that the graph (evidence) was misleading in a way to you. But anyways this silly arguement isn't gonna get us any where.

... You're not even making sense. I'll agree to drop this anyway.

 

[Zulu Nation]

Nah, Zulu, I didn't mean that you were the reason for whatever I said, I mean in general. Both sides are always doing that, then they wonder "why did the last poll not mean anything? Why is the SBR-B so quiet? We as a community have a right to know!"... Obviously because of their lack of self-control!

Ok I understand.. but please don't call me Zulu and call me Iblis as you should remember me.

@Flayl: Yea just forget about it.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Well, ledge grab rules are actually really common, and even without them you probably won't get planked.

Stupid. If you actually are playing to win to any extent you would use what works. Why wouldn't you plank if there were no rules against it?

 

[Zulu Nation]

Was that really neccesary to say he was stupid for one faulty statement?

 

[BlueTerrorist]

The reason why I'm not as excited as Overswarm in debating over Metaknight:

Oh god. Can't wait.

YOU'RE LYING!! YOU'RE LYING!!!

WHY DO YOU LIE!!!!???

*Goes into nerdgasm* OMFG!!! Spring's not coming fast enough !

 

[Kewkky]

Dudley's gonna be the best.

I can see it now... "I'd like an order of chicken nuggets please, with a coke to drink or something, and some waffle fries..."

Legendary.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hey guys, the topic, you should stay on it. Super Street fighter 4 is not THAT sexy.

 

[Zulu Nation]

Nooo I think the guy riding the elephant is gonna be the best just look at him.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yes it is BPC.


*distracted by SSFIV*

The fact that all the "factual" information on this board is opinionated and downplayed makes criteria pretty much impossible to base off of any gathered data. What's worse is no one is willing to do the work.

In which case making criteria on anything outside of Crow's post is pretty much impossible.

I think you misunderstood, I was looking for a criteria based on objective fact similar to Crow's effort (in fact, I was in the process of developing equivalent data myself). There are people willing to do the work.


But the fact is, once the data is in play, a criteria cannot be based on it, that has the very unfortunate effect of biasing peoiple. Which was the exact thing I was trying to avoid.

The problem with criteria adumbrodeus, is that several of us have brought it up several times (which you can apply to any game, not just Brawl) and all anti-ban has to say is "nuh-uh!" because it's based on opinion.

Here are the criteria that have been presented so far, not all of pro-ban agree on them:
a) MK has a technique that shuts down 2/3 of the cast -> opinion
b) MK does not have a matchup outside of mirror that is worse than 6:4 (55:45 on smashboards) -> opinion
c) MK's performace is disproportionately good compared to every other character -> opinion

So... What criteria is there that the pro-ban could gather data for and NOT be dismissed with a "Nah, I don't think so."

That's why I developed a process to form a community consensus on what is actually banworthy, because the community agrees on what data is important, there is no dismissal.

Of course, the implication is that the data must be hard facts, but with enough work, we can get the hard facts discover the truth of any issue.

Sveet shouldn't even be part of this forum. He's not even researched anything Brawl-related, who does he think he is coming here and questioning people who have some sort of legit background info about their stances? I don't take anything Sveet says seriously in here... Maybe if this was the Melee community I would be open and ready to be persuaded, but this isn't the case, and he's just trying to argue in a game he doesn't know enough about.

And I don't think neither Pro- nor Anti-ban are insane or crazy or whatever. For you to say this, you'd be willing to accept that every time a community is split between two groups, both are insane and crazy. We both have goals we'd like to accomplish, and people to back each side. Nothing is gained from namecalling or demeaning the opposing side, except more namecalling.


So please, cut it out people. I wanna read useful posts, not "you're insane" posts.

Thank you voice of reason.

I know, I'm just pointing out what I posted.

For the rest of this topic now I'm questioning if people know what the term viable means. There is a difference between best viable option and less viable option.

Cause I'm hearing people say Peach and Co. aren't viable in Melee which is ludicrous.

Peach is almost at the bleeding edge of viability, and she would not be there if fox was the only character above her that existed. She'd pretty much be the only relevant MU so everyone would have tons of expirience, and other top tiers are much better for her.

 

[Kewkky]

Nooo I think the guy riding the elephant is gonna be the best just look at him.

Ahahaha, once you see it you can't un-see it! D:

T.Hawk will never be the same guy in my eyes.


So we gotta wait a month or so for some big development to happen... Once I get my laptop fixed (hopefully have it by March 7th), I can try and help out with stuff, by researching or organizing arguments... But by then it will be too late.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Was that really neccesary to say he was stupid for one faulty statement?

Welcome to the boards.

The more you learn 'bout people here, the better your understanding is when people have a certain point of view of some1.

 

[Zulu Nation]

Yes and by that time my laptop will be fixed and I can go back to being Iblis.

Thanks you're two years late Gunmaster.

This a back-up account I've been here since '08 I know how we roll.

 

[MarKO X]

SSFIV is legit.
The only character that hasn't been "seen" is Hakan, some Arabian grappler obsessed with old or something.

But yeah, SSFIV is legit. And apparently, any anti-ban case made against Crow's post is garbage.

However, Omni promises something from the anti-ban side that won't resort back to stuff that was already debunked. So that will be good to know.

I'll wait.

 

[Zulu Nation]

SSFIV is legit.
The only character that hasn't been "seen" is Hakan, some Arabian grappler obsessed with old or something.

But yeah, SSFIV is legit. And apparently, any anti-ban case made against Crow's post is garbage.

However, Omni promises something from the anti-ban side that won't resort back to stuff that was already debunked. So that will be good to know.

I'll wait.

I like this post.

 

[HeroMystic]

SSFIV is tons more sexy.

I think you misunderstood, I was looking for a criteria based on objective fact similar to Crow's effort (in fact, I was in the process of developing equivalent data myself). There are people willing to do the work.


But the fact is, once the data is in play, a criteria cannot be based on it, that has the very unfortunate effect of biasing peoiple. Which was the exact thing I was trying to avoid.

So pretty much one has to stop researching data and come up with the criteria, so things will stay objective and there'll be a clear-cut margin.

You know this essentially means waiting it out (and more back 'n forth bickering), right? At this point, what don't we know?

 

[Overswarm]

Abumbrodeus is wrong. Unfortunately, people will merely change their criteria or say "I never agreed to it". If it wasn't the case, MK would be banned now.

 

[Chuee]

Stupid. If you actually are playing to win to any extent you would use what works. Why wouldn't you plank if there were no rules against it?

lol you're so mean.
Barely anyone actually planks, and those that do rarely ever plank.

I believe it was already shown that LGLs are non-competitive. Also, ever seen Plank play?

I've seen his matches a long time ago where planking was created. I don't even think he plays anymore though, I don't hear anything of him.

 

[Palpi]

Abumbrodeus is wrong.

 

[DMG]

I know I would plank forever if places let me. I mean, I don't like compromising my status as a respected, well liked member of the community, but I will crush a spirit or two if need be.

 

[clowsui]

DMG come to the midwest! :3

Also SSF4 has never looked so exciting until now. Going to pick up SF once it comes out.

 

[adumbrodeus]

SSFIV is tons more sexy.


So pretty much one has to stop researching data and come up with the criteria, so things will stay objective and there'll be a clear-cut margin.

You know this essentially means waiting it out (and more back 'n forth bickering), right? At this point, what don't we know?

Which is why I proposed a solid complete PROCESS, so instead of stopping progress it could be redirected.

Abumbrodeus is wrong. Unfortunately, people will merely change their criteria or say "I never agreed to it". If it wasn't the case, MK would be banned now.

As I said the public knowledge of the process, it's goals, and it's eventual results would prevent that.


As an organization that requires legitimacy to do anything, the SBR would not back down on accepting the results if it chose this process.


Well, there's a minute possibility that it would, but it would be epically idiotic because it would lose all influence if it did so.

 

[WindMajor]

Abumbrodeus is wrong.

Am I the only one who noticed that he spelled his name wrong?

 

[Nanaki]

Abumbrodeus is wrong. Unfortunately, people will merely change their criteria or say "I never agreed to it". If it wasn't the case, MK would be banned now.

But he didn't fit the criteria then. Duh, OS. You're so manipulative and deceiving.

I know I would plank forever if places let me. I mean, I don't like compromising my status as a respected, well liked member of the community, but I will crush a spirit or two if need be.

God I love you sometimes. Full homo.

Which is why I proposed a solid complete PROCESS, so instead of stopping progress it could be redirected.



As I said the public knowledge of the process, it's goals, and it's eventual results would prevent that.


As an organization that requires legitimacy to do anything, the SBR would not back down on accepting the results if it chose this process.


Well, there's a minute possibility that it would, but it would be epically idiotic because it would lose all influence if it did so.

This is very much not the BBR's way of doing things in general, so I doubt you'll see much 'higher-up' support on this. You're going about it the most reasonable way, but I think it's a bit unrealistic.

I don't normally nitpick, but you seem to be a smart guy so I'll just quietly point out you used the wrong 'its' when talking about goals and results above. Easy mistake, happens all the time.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I know I would plank forever if places let me. I mean, I don't like compromising my status as a respected, well liked member of the community, but I will crush a spirit or two if need be.

My point exactly, Chuee.

Edit: @Nanaki AND Flan, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. If u can read the darn post it doesn't matter how many grammatical errors there are. This isn't school.

 

[Chuee]

Not everybody is like DMG
._.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Am I the only one who noticed that he spelled his name wrong?

I'm used to typos on my name, I don't comment unless they're overtly intentional and juvenile.

This is very much not the BBR's way of doing things in general, so I doubt you'll see much 'higher-up' support on this. You're going about it the most reasonable way, but I think it's a bit unrealistic.

Which is why I tried to build a support base, I probably could've succeed if half the TOs didn't basically split support already.

I don't normall nitpick, but you seem to be a smart guy so I'll just quietly point out you used the wrong 'its' when talking about goals and results above. Easy mistake, happens all the time.

Argh, stupid typo, "it's" is a contraction, "its" is possessive. Hbox would rip me apart for that one, especially after I went grammar nazi to solve ivysaur's gender.

Not everybody is like DMG
._.

Everyone should be.

 

[Chuee]

If they were then brawl would suck.

 

[Nanaki]

My point exactly, Chuee.

Edit: @Nanaki AND Flan, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. If u can read the darn post it doesn't matter how many grammatical errors there are. This isn't school.

I wouldn't correct most people, but adumbrodeus is the kind of guy who would probably want to be corrected as he's a bit of a stickler himself.

Which is why I tried to build a support base, I probably could've succeed if half the TOs didn't basically split support already.

Yeah, that's a pretty big obstacle to try to overcome. At least you can say you tried.

Argh, stupid typo, "it's" is a contraction, "its" is possessive. Hbox would rip me apart for that one, especially after I went grammar nazi to solve ivysaur's gender.

Yep.

Everyone should be.

Good lord yes.

 

[DMG]

If more people were like me, I would feel obligated to display why I am a legendary doppelganger.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

If they were then brawl would suck.

*facepalm*

Ppl think it already does, campfest or not. Where have u been?

 

[Flayl]

If they were then brawl would suck.

Hate the game, not the player.

Starcraft 2 better be good, I've had my fair share of disappointments already.