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Official MBR Tier List

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pockyD

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we (like the top 5 in the us or something)
:laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

the tier list is made by the SBR, which was supposedly a group of the most knowledgable/experienced smashers... it's just unfortunate that people who were moderators but were not otherwise qualified also got to take part in the process

i don't think the list is blatantly wrong or anything; it's pretty good
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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it was alot of different people...anyone you can really think of in the smash community during the height of its popularity/metagame.

I think the SBR is pretty much brawl now...
 

Grmo

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I agree that we could make a new tier list, actually. Perhaps a weekly discussion sort of thing, and we can talk about various characters and their positioning.

Also, how can anyone say that Marth is better than Sheik?
 

Binx

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Top
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Jigglypuff

High
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf

Middle
Samus
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Mario
Link

low
Pikachu
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Game and Watch

Bottom
Ness
Yoshi
Bowser
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu
 

Grunt

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Jiggs is not above falcon and peach, not in a million years.
...
unless this is an East Coast tier list, then i understand.
 

otg

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Jiggs is a high tier, let's keep it that way. Just cause M2k feels like rushing down jigglies instead of camping them like you are supposed to doesn't mean Jiggs is top tier all of a sudden. Ganon being in high tier is iffy... but w'e I dont really give a ****.
 

AranOcean

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Top
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Jigglypuff

High
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf

Middle
Samus
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Mario
Link

low
Pikachu
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Game and Watch

Bottom
Ness
Yoshi
Bowser
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu
You're a nice person. Link's dream of getting out of Low/Botttom tier will come true one of these days.
 

JonaDiaper

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the short answer would be that a marth main has dominated the scene for like 6 years up til 2008
lol who cares about 6-7 years ago? were in 09, theres no more ken/azen...marth will never dominate like he did back then.. theres mango, and if shiz starts playing again and gets into it more, he'll probably be able to take him too..

obviously the times have changed, we shouldnt use past years (atleast that long ago, a year should be max because of all the players that have dropped the game and such, or like post brawl) to determine the current list..

i feel like ive said that before lol

Jiggs is a high tier, let's keep it that way. Just cause M2k feels like rushing down jigglies instead of camping them like you are supposed to doesn't mean Jiggs is top tier all of a sudden. Ganon being in high tier is iffy... but w'e I dont really give a ****.
max its not only m2k that cant beat him...id say its just about everyone
 

TheManaLord

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nope she's def amazingly good. falcon is not that great. whose doin **** wit peach these days pc picks peach sometimes i guess. and east coast is what mattters for melee so yea thats our tier list and thus its all of ours lol when 99/100 top players are from a region they get priority
 

Grunt

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You're right, I totally forgot that Zhu and Lovage didn't beat anyone at ROM, and the rest of the whole ****ing west coast showed up too. XD wait till genesis boi.

did ya know? SS beat Mango's puff by 2 stocks on brinstar, so mango switched to spacies to beat him? EDIT: @ SCSA
 

pockyD

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lol who cares about 6-7 years ago? were in 09, theres no more ken/azen...marth will never dominate like he did back then.. theres mango, and if shiz starts playing again and gets into it more, he'll probably be able to take him too..
it's not 6-7 years ago, it's 6-7 years duration... i don't know how that was hard to understand, but your reading comprehension is rather impressive.

marth dominated up until just over a year ago (pound 3?)

obviously the times have changed, we shouldnt use past years (atleast that long ago, a year should be max because of all the players that have dropped the game and such, or like post brawl) to determine the current list..

i feel like ive said that before lol
that's rather arbitrary, isn't it?

obviously, results from 2003 shouldn't hold the same weight as results from 2009, but older results are still important, especially in determining whether recent developments are consistent with past progressions as opposed to potentially being flukes


I personally don't think marth is the best at all... I think fox is, mainly because stage flexibility gives him an edge over marth... but that's beside the point. Nobody ever says what the tier list IS; they just like to say what it's NOT, which is ambiguous and confusing :dizzy:
 

Divinokage

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ya I agree with almost everything except with Marth and maybe Falcon.

Fox is probably still on top then Sheik, Marth, Falco.. imo. Peach should still be higher than Falcon too. Other than that I'm good.
 

KishPrime

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the tier list is made by the SBR, which was supposedly a group of the most knowledgable/experienced smashers... it's just unfortunate that people who were moderators but were not otherwise qualified also got to take part in the process
Actually, I don't recall that you were back there when I started this project, so let me just say that most of the people who participated in this project were either very high-level pros or massively dedicated to the game since Brawl had been out for awhile. I'd like to know who exactly you think participated that didn't deserve to contribute, because I think I still have the original list of contributors saved to my computer.

I'll also continue to argue that the metagame has been degrading, not evolving, until now, which is why we created the FINAL tier list while memories were still fresh. Is it possible that will change? Maybe. But it hasn't yet. Also, this is my opinion, but it is also true.

The tier list was based on tournament results and opinion both. You cannot separate the two, as both are essential to the process. Even at the height of Melee, there were not enough players to accurately judge every matchup.

Most of ya'll are just too young.
 

Pink Reaper

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lol that doesn't make any sense. explain pl0x
I just went back and looked at as many east coast posts as I could find.

The general gist of those posts are:

Samus is a terrible character and should never ever be used in tournaments because you can't ever possibly win with her and HugS has never existed.

Shiek is almost the best character in the game, but as im sure Scar has told you, Jigglypuff is broken, all she has to do is spam Bair and Down B and she wins.

Shiek, Fox and Falco all beat Marth, as does Falcon so he needs to move down.

Peach isn't good enough to be in high tier

Everyone on EC knows how to play every low/bottom tier character ever so if they say X > Y they are right no matter what
Unless it's KevinM, what kind of *** ACTUALLY plays bottom tier characters?

Edit: LOL I forgot roy. Oh well, he's trash anyways.
 

handsockpuppet

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,438
Top
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Jigglypuff

High
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Ganondorf

Middle
Samus
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Mario
Link

low
Pikachu
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Game and Watch

Bottom
Ness
Yoshi
Bowser
Mewtwo
Kirby
Pichu
a few things I noticed. I'll just brief through them for now, and get more in-depth later

1) Marth has power and range, sure, but I think he just doesn't have the tech skill and speed to be number one. he can't SHFFL quick combos and can't turn the tables on a faster Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, or even ICs getting close and pressuring him. his grabs are mediocre at best (his spacie grab is overrated; it only works until like 40%), and he gets ruined by a good ground game. I think he should be below Fox and Sheik., or at least Fox.

2) Captain Falcon is a combo beast. he can ruin any ground or air game. his nair is an amazing opener, and his knee is really the only move that can function as both an insane comboer and an amazing kill move. his Dair is great, and the nipple spike is a true spike. his recovery is underrated; not only does the down-B glitch save lives, but it is also worth mentioning that his recovery is a ***** to gimp or edgeguard. did I mention that he can also juggle Uairs, chaingrab with three different grabs (some of which are 0-death grabs on certain characters), and a range that is bigger than it looks? because of all of this, I think he should be above Jiggs.

3) I don't know what should say about Ganon being above Samus. Samus wrecks the lower tiers, and has a great projectile, air, ground, and crouch cancel game (and don't underestimate the windmill of death lol). still, after seeing linguine and some other great Ganons play, i'm keeping my mouth shut on this one for a while.

4) I like seeing DK above mario

5) I personally think that Pikachu is worse than Roy and Y. Link. but to not get this too annoying to others, I'm only going to argue for Y. Link. Young Link has an amazing hold on the low and bottom tiers. Young Link also has a fast camping and projectile game, as well as a whole arsenal of gimps.

6) most of the bottom tiers look good, except for Kirby being above Pichu. Seriously, Pichu has a good recovery, projectile, good grabs, attacks, and combos (relatively of course). Kirby has no good projectiles, terrible grabs, no kill moves that don't hit the foe upwards, weak attacks, and no good specials.
 

pockyD

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Actually, I don't recall that you were back there when I started this project, so let me just say that most of the people who participated in this project were either very high-level pros or massively dedicated to the game since Brawl had been out for awhile. I'd like to know who exactly you think participated that didn't deserve to contribute, because I think I still have the original list of contributors saved to my computer.
I was never back there... but based on what I've been told, (and the fact that all the characters have numbers attached to them seems to support this), the most recent list ended up being decided on a vote format, which was open to anyone in the SBR... and if that is true, then it includes people like, say, the moderator of the "Media Metropolis"

The tier list was based on tournament results and opinion both. You cannot separate the two, as both are essential to the process. Even at the height of Melee, there were not enough players to accurately judge every matchup.
if it's based on results an opinions both, then it is ultimately just based on opinions (not that that's a bad thing - I actually prefer it that way, since results can easily speak for themselves already)... it would just be up to each voter/debater how much weight results should hold for them
 

Binx

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LOL Pink. I dunno, I've thought puff was good for a long time, now that I'm actually using her, and I do play the top 7/8 characters regularly I can tell she is better than Falcon and Peach and Ice Climbers. I'm not convinced she is better than Falco Fox Marth or Sheik, but I think she does well vs Falco Marth and Sheik.

She really might be the second best character based on match ups, the only character she loses to very badly seems to be Fox. But she seems to do perfectly fine vs Marth. @ whoever said you should camp vs Jiggs maybe with Fox but he is the only character who can, also maybe Sheik.
 

Pink Reaper

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LOL Pink. I dunno, I've thought puff was good for a long time, now that I'm actually using her, and I do play the top 7/8 characters regularly I can tell she is better than Falcon and Peach and Ice Climbers. I'm not convinced she is better than Falco Fox Marth or Sheik, but I think she does well vs Falco Marth and Sheik.

She really might be the second best character based on match ups, the only character she loses to very badly seems to be Fox. But she seems to do perfectly fine vs Marth. @ whoever said you should camp vs Jiggs maybe with Fox but he is the only character who can, also maybe Sheik.
Jiggs is actually a really odd character. She has almost no flat out **** matches ups in her favor but then she also has the ability to go even with just about every character. She's definitely high tier material, but I wouldn't put her with the likes of F/F/S/M
 

Vulcan55

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lol, wat.
Marth destroys Jigglypuff.
Sheik also destroys Jigglypuff.
Those are probably her two worst match-ups.
 

Grmo

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I just went back and looked at as many east coast posts as I could find.

The general gist of those posts are:

Samus is a terrible character and should never ever be used in tournaments because you can't ever possibly win with her and HugS has never existed.

Shiek is almost the best character in the game, but as im sure Scar has told you, Jigglypuff is broken, all she has to do is spam Bair and Down B and she wins.

Shiek, Fox and Falco all beat Marth, as does Falcon so he needs to move down.

Peach isn't good enough to be in high tier

Everyone on EC knows how to play every low/bottom tier character ever so if they say X > Y they are right no matter what
Unless it's KevinM, what kind of *** ACTUALLY plays bottom tier characters?

Edit: LOL I forgot roy. Oh well, he's trash anyways.
lmfao that's actually pretty funny.
1) Marth has power and range, sure, but I think he just doesn't have the tech skill and speed to be number one. he can't SHFFL quick combos and can't turn the tables on a faster Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, or even ICs getting close and pressuring him. his grabs are mediocre at best (his spacie grab is overrated; it only works until like 40%), and he gets ruined by a good ground game. I think he should be below Fox and Sheik., or at least Fox.
Are you aware that his grabs are the best in the game? The only characters with longer grab ranges are samus, link, young link, and that's it. He's so much faster than all of them. Below him is like, Roy, Yoshi, in terms of range, but his are just so huge and so fast. Don't forget that he's a beast at tech chasing in the hands of a good player. I also think that, because of his tipper and grabs, that he has the ability to turn the tables very quickly. Go watch some marth dittos. the ones between Ken and Azen in 2006 are really good examples. While they're old, that aspect of Marth has by no means been removed. For a more recent example, see the losers finals between Mew2King and Shiz, last match.
maybe on the EC tier list, maybe.
lol quit it with that, we're never gonna get anywhere otherwise.
lol, wat.
Marth destroys Jigglypuff.
Sheik also destroys Jigglypuff.
Those are probably her two worst match-ups.
Jiggs has been getting ***** by Fox recently, and that's why you see someone like M2K going to Fox after realizing that his Marth can't beat Mango. Sheik is no exception. Most Sheik players know to refrain from grabbing jiggs or else they get rested, and that really limits sheik

I'll also continue to argue that the metagame has been degrading, not evolving, until now, which is why we created the FINAL tier list while memories were still fresh. Is it possible that will change? Maybe. But it hasn't yet. Also, this is my opinion, but it is also true.

The tier list was based on tournament results and opinion both. You cannot separate the two, as both are essential to the process. Even at the height of Melee, there were not enough players to accurately judge every matchup.
The fact that many people are saying the tier list needs to change should tell you one of three things:

1) the metagame has changed and you haven't seen it
2) the tier list was never an accurate representation of the metagame in the first place
3) I'm wrong and you just know a lot more about this than us

I personally lean towards the second option, but I'm open to the third as well.

Finally, how has the metagame degraded? I'm not trying to question you out of spite or anything, I'm just very interested to hear what you have to say about this.
 

Vulcan55

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Jiggs has been getting ***** by Fox recently,
Not something I deny
and that's why you see someone like M2K going to Fox after realizing that his Marth can't beat Mango.
I'm sorry. I forgot that M2k vs Mango defines that one match-up, thanks for clarifying.

EDIT: Actually, I sort of still play Jiggs. Why am I trying to argue? If more people say she's good, then I play a good character now.
 
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