MarioMariox2
Smash Ace
LOL wrong tier list.
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ru5514n
Smash Ace
"...as well as Super Smash Bros. Melee were he was one of the strongest characters."
lolwut
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
why are marth and fox still top 2 on the tier list...
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
yes but thats about as far as he will go.
once you get around his flaws that make him easy to **** up, hes actually pretty good.
he is really not bad, just has huge weaknesses.
like Achilles but his entire leg is the weak spot.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Fox is still there because he should be.
Marth is still there because SBR are stupidly stubborn and won't update.
Marth is still there because SBR are stupidly stubborn and won't update.
M2K is the best marth player in the world...and even he can't beat mango with marth...although he's lost confidence in his marth which was once considered hax. Marth can make a comeback someone (if m2k isn't willng to main him again) needs to step up and **** with marth again.
Strawhat Dahean maybe, or even HBK..sadly Ken isnt around anymore, cactuar doesn't main marth anymore, and Azen doesn't go to many tournaments anymore. M2K is a broken man...nuff said.
Strawhat Dahean maybe, or even HBK..sadly Ken isnt around anymore, cactuar doesn't main marth anymore, and Azen doesn't go to many tournaments anymore. M2K is a broken man...nuff said.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
We lack good marths unfortunately, as in real top of the metagame marths.
HBK is like the only one remaining ATM.
I'll become the next top marth... eventually... hopefully... guys could you give me a hand?
HBK is like the only one remaining ATM.
I'll become the next top marth... eventually... hopefully... guys could you give me a hand?
Like I said m2k is probably the only top level marth that comes to mind...but he refuses to main him like he used to in his prime...and only uses him against spacies (whom he still dominates, except mango's space animals).
HBK is at a High level, but he needs to raise his game to like a whole notch above where he's at if he wants to beat mango, armada, and hbox...even amsah and m2k
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
marth is a 2007 character
sadly you speak the truth, but that still won't stop me from maining the guy...there has to be a way.
Honestly i think even if m2k played exactly like he did back in 2007 with marth he would still only be 2nd or 3rd at best. Its just way too hard.
Honestly i think even if m2k played exactly like he did back in 2007 with marth he would still only be 2nd or 3rd at best. Its just way too hard.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
The more I play marth and get better with him. the more I realize, he isnt as good as he use to be.
**** he just gets punished every time he attacks lol.
**** he just gets punished every time he attacks lol.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I dunno, I just don't think marth is that much worse, I think a lot is perception because of who's winning in the metagame. I remember in the first MK ban thread, alphazealot brought in an argument on how marth was the only tournament viable character, period.
I think, given some good marth players, we'll realize that he's a good character again.
Heck, I'm trying to be that player... I'm just not there yet.
I think, given some good marth players, we'll realize that he's a good character again.
Heck, I'm trying to be that player... I'm just not there yet.
I think the main issue is that m2k needs a successor who will push the marth metagame into a brand new age and totally **** with marth in a totally new way. Kinda like what m2k did after Ken retired in reinventing marth.
Problem is who the hell is gonna have a better marth than mew2king.
Problem is who the hell is gonna have a better marth than mew2king.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Honestly, we don't know, there could be some new kid that comes in and just revolutionizes the metagame.
Or one of our own who just improves drastically.
Speaking of which, I need to improve if I'm gonna surpass m2k.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
technically every character is exactly the same lol.
I just dont think that simple keep away is as effective. Smaller faster characters can get inbetween is attacks more easily. People are learning the marth matchup alot better and it seems like he isnt really evolving in meta game. just my opinion, If somebody thinks otherwise Id like to hear your take on it.
I just dont think that simple keep away is as effective. Smaller faster characters can get inbetween is attacks more easily. People are learning the marth matchup alot better and it seems like he isnt really evolving in meta game. just my opinion, If somebody thinks otherwise Id like to hear your take on it.
Stev
Smash Ace
It just seems weird that with Marth dominating the scene for so long, all of a sudden he's not good enough. I would think this would have been figured out much sooner if it was true.
xbombr
Smash Ace
Marth is just hard to play at higher levels. He hasn't gotten worse, it's just that everyone else has gotten better at dealing with him. With the lack of a dominant Marth (Like Ken or old M2K), not as many people seem to play him. He's got a pretty stagnant metagame since no one is really pushing him to his limits like in the old days, so he just doesn't seem to be as good.
I don't think he's got less potential than he used to, but someone needs to come along and push his metagame.
I don't think he's got less potential than he used to, but someone needs to come along and push his metagame.
Wolfey Kong
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2008
- Messages
- 11
Isn't it kind of always like that?
Of course some characters' metagame is sure more effective than others, but to its limits every character should be pretty playable at the higher levels. If you suddenly got a new smasher who mained Ness(Which I think could be really good if pushed enough) and pushed him to his limits, people would open their eyes and maybe try him out once in a while and push him even more.
If just one smasher would main one specific character and push him to his limits, he would automaticly move up on the tiers because more people would also main him.
It's in some cases how it works. You could argue against it by saying that the pro smashers would have thought of that already and tried to push all possible chracters to their limits, but that is probably not the case. They choose the characters they feel most comfortable with avoiding the low tiers.
Then again the tiers are made out of the pro smashers who choose the characters they feel the most comfortable with and at the same time trying to avoid the low tiers... This causing everbody else to also avoiding the low tiers. Means the low tiers are never really pushed at all.
So if a new smasher came and tried to push all the low tiers to their limits?
What would happen to the overall metagame?
I've been thinking about this alot, finding no answer.
Of course some characters' metagame is sure more effective than others, but to its limits every character should be pretty playable at the higher levels. If you suddenly got a new smasher who mained Ness(Which I think could be really good if pushed enough) and pushed him to his limits, people would open their eyes and maybe try him out once in a while and push him even more.
If just one smasher would main one specific character and push him to his limits, he would automaticly move up on the tiers because more people would also main him.
It's in some cases how it works. You could argue against it by saying that the pro smashers would have thought of that already and tried to push all possible chracters to their limits, but that is probably not the case. They choose the characters they feel most comfortable with avoiding the low tiers.
Then again the tiers are made out of the pro smashers who choose the characters they feel the most comfortable with and at the same time trying to avoid the low tiers... This causing everbody else to also avoiding the low tiers. Means the low tiers are never really pushed at all.
So if a new smasher came and tried to push all the low tiers to their limits?
What would happen to the overall metagame?
I've been thinking about this alot, finding no answer.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I mean he lost to Kage, tsk tsk. lol.
G$$$$$$$$$!! LOL.
Yeah there's just not enough marths anymore
I seem to see more Docs now a days
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
This is SO true in so many ways.
It's not necessarily that there have been a lack of good Marth players, it's just the fact that the '10 metagame is MUCH smarter than the '05-'07 metagame and people have learned to push characters like Fox, Falco, and Sheik to a higher level with greater potential than what Marth has to offer. Honestly, what has Marth done in the past 3 years that has made him a better character...? All I can think of is that Marth players now tend to optimize Marth's tools better than back 3 years ago when only Ken and M2K could use them properly (ie: 0-to-death grabs, reverse dolphin slash kills, etc), but Marth hasn't really changed that much in the past few years to keep up with other characters.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
It depends wolfey kong. Like do they make who they are playing as look fun? Comapre king to H-box king made more people play and H-box made less people play.
Do other people like how they play and stuff like if someone is the underdog people will totally root for them and try to help. Also if people like that person at all I mean I hate playing as pikachu I think axe is amazing and stuff but he will never get me to play as pikachu cause I hate him and he sucks.
Is there an uber easy answer to them like I pick sheik you lose or just camp and run away and CAN't caught you(kirby/bowser). I would think it would be cool to see someone just end up bringing someone way up on the tier list and in tournament I think that could be legit with axe pikachu shouldn't be any higher but maybe one day a spot or 2 higher. If pikachu's controled the metagame(massive LOL) I think sheik's would be the simple answer but only the good sheik would be able to keep up because not as good players would help the pikachus more than anything.
But of course there would have to be a massive lack of sheiks to start this.
Do other people like how they play and stuff like if someone is the underdog people will totally root for them and try to help. Also if people like that person at all I mean I hate playing as pikachu I think axe is amazing and stuff but he will never get me to play as pikachu cause I hate him and he sucks.
Is there an uber easy answer to them like I pick sheik you lose or just camp and run away and CAN't caught you(kirby/bowser). I would think it would be cool to see someone just end up bringing someone way up on the tier list and in tournament I think that could be legit with axe pikachu shouldn't be any higher but maybe one day a spot or 2 higher. If pikachu's controled the metagame(massive LOL) I think sheik's would be the simple answer but only the good sheik would be able to keep up because not as good players would help the pikachus more than anything.
But of course there would have to be a massive lack of sheiks to start this.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Yea its crazy. Like I just see mad openings in his attacks. I feel like pichu and pikachu would be able to use speed and ****. (not true) but yea.
I dont see what the falcon fear is about. Im way more afraid of falcon as marth then the other way around.
and marth is my lil homie.
I dont see what the falcon fear is about. Im way more afraid of falcon as marth then the other way around.
and marth is my lil homie.
KikoMePlease
Smash Journeyman
Ironic because when you look at the first few posts of this thread, you see people saying that Marth totally deserves that #2 spot.
Amazing how quickly the metagame develops. We really need an update on this tier list @__@;
Amazing how quickly the metagame develops. We really need an update on this tier list @__@;
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Seriously. The current tier list is a joke.
xbombr
Smash Ace
A joke? Not really. The only real changes are Marth moving down from number two and Jiggs moving up to somewhere in top.
lamugi
Smash Lord
Yeah like marth should be lowered!
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i know everyone cares what i think so here it is.
TOP:
fox
falco
puff
marth
sheik
HIGH:
peach
captain
ICE CLIMBER TIER:
ice climbers
MID:
doc
samus
ganon
LOW/BOTTOM:
(the rest)
i see a HUGE gap between each of thee stiers while there is almost no gap between each specific character within their respective tier. i know i didn't change much but there it is.
TOP:
fox
falco
puff
marth
sheik
HIGH:
peach
captain
ICE CLIMBER TIER:
ice climbers
MID:
doc
samus
ganon
LOW/BOTTOM:
(the rest)
i see a HUGE gap between each of thee stiers while there is almost no gap between each specific character within their respective tier. i know i didn't change much but there it is.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
doc mario should be like 4 spots above mario he isn't much better. and I don't think mario of dr. mario are top mid good.
Scidadle
Smash Champion
Shroomed almost beat hbox at pound.
Doc is top mid good.
There is no one else except maybe ganon if you don't wanna put him in high tier.
Doc is top mid good.
There is no one else except maybe ganon if you don't wanna put him in high tier.
everlasting yayuhzz
Smash Champion
Doc actually goes really good against Jiggs...
Scidadle
Smash Champion
Yeah I know that but it's still hbox. Doc is certainly top of mid or close to it.
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
I was thinking the same thing.
Stev
Smash Ace
Why is it that people are like "there's not really much of a difference between doc and mario" yet they're separated so drastically on tier lists
RockCrock
Smash Champion
Yeah, and you didn't even try any edge-guarding in that set - I watched.
poor marth...he doesn't have great representation outside of M2K..m the only marth who has the potential to compete with marth at the highest level....however he refuses to main him. Sadly, more people are using Falco, fox, jiggz, falcon, and even ganon and doc...moreso than marth.
xbombr
Smash Ace
Marth's match ups with Jiggs, Falcon, and Ganon aren't that great.
Jiggs vs. Marth is an aerial spacing battle. Marth has more reach, but Jiggs can kill him in one hit and has better aerial mobility. Ganon vs. Marth is basically a spacing battle. Ganon having less speed, but more damaging punishment options. It's a trade off really. Falcon vs. Marth is based off of who can punish harder and it's pretty unclear. Marth can gimp Falcon and spike him easily. Falcon essentially has overpowered autocombos on Marth with NAir, Knee, and Uair and is one of the few characters that has more speed.
He's got a pretty good match up with Doc and alright match ups with Peach and Samus.
These are all obvious oversimplifications, but serve the purpose of saying that Marth pretty much goes even with most of these characters.
Jiggs vs. Marth is an aerial spacing battle. Marth has more reach, but Jiggs can kill him in one hit and has better aerial mobility. Ganon vs. Marth is basically a spacing battle. Ganon having less speed, but more damaging punishment options. It's a trade off really. Falcon vs. Marth is based off of who can punish harder and it's pretty unclear. Marth can gimp Falcon and spike him easily. Falcon essentially has overpowered autocombos on Marth with NAir, Knee, and Uair and is one of the few characters that has more speed.
He's got a pretty good match up with Doc and alright match ups with Peach and Samus.
These are all obvious oversimplifications, but serve the purpose of saying that Marth pretty much goes even with most of these characters.
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