Bones0
Smash Legend
No one saw it because it was at the end of a rant arguing in favor of freeze glitching.
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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List
- Thread starter Slhoka
- Start date
john!
Smash Hero
if you can't fully read a single paragraph that you disagree with, then that's not my problem lol
Ezzee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 187
Am I the only one who think Marth is really overrated? In the top 8 he goes even with Fox and Falco (he wins on FD, but probably loses on other stages), loses to Sheik, loses to Jiggs, goes even at best against Falcon and loses to IC's. He probably wins against Peach, but I question how big of an advantage he has. Hell, PPU and Shroomed say Marth even loses to Doc. He has more of a niche as a spacies killer, and as said before, he needs to go to FD to get a real advantage.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Yes we understand how some characters have uphill battles and matchups are difficult. Also beating top players is extremely difficult... What about it?
Max?
Smash Champion
It was true then, and it's true now. Marth is ass
Ezzee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 187
Marth still deserves top 8. His matchup against spacies alone gives him that due to their prevelance. He's just not that good against the rest of the top 8. And Kage, beating a top player is difficult, but both are top players and they play each other all the time since they live about 10 minutes away from each other if I'm not mistaken. I think they have far more knowledge of that matchup than almost anyone else.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Marth loses to Sheik. He goes about even with Falcon Puff and spacies. Beats rest of cast.
Probably mid tier. Next to Bowser.
Probably mid tier. Next to Bowser.
Beat!
Smash Master
Setting aside the fact that I think Marth beats Falco for a moment, do you realize that going even with both spacies is a ****ing amazing trait to have? Aside from maybe Sheik, there is no other character who does that.
Correct.
If by "other stages" you mean "PS and DL, and the rest are completely fine for Marth", then yeah, sure, why's that a problem.
If you mean "all the other stages" then no way. FoD is great for Marth. BF's good. YS is a bit of a toss-up, but it's hardly a stage that he definitely loses on.
Still a completely doable matchup. I'd even argue that Sheik's advantage is overstated.
No. Fthrow/Dthrow -> pivot anything you want to is a true, reactionary combo at any percent until 100-ish. And when I say combo, I mean it links to finishers. Tipper fsmash. Tipper dsmash. Tipper uptilt.
The only Puff who makes this matchup look bad for Marth is Hbox. The good Marths he has played against (PPU, M2K) do fine in the neutral game for the most part, but they get severely out-punished because they haven't learned the pivot followups (and because Hbox is amazing).
Marth beats Puff.
Even at worst.
No.
While I do recall PPU saying something to that effect, I've never seen Shroomed say it. When/where did he make that claim?
Ezzee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 187
I did say his MU against spacies was good enough to warrant top 8. Admittedly, there aren't to many videos of puff vs Marth at a high level, but of the ones I could find, but seemed to win them. The falcon MU is getting better for him, it seems to the point where it's gotten 50/50. The IC's is almost definatly a losing matchup though. Recent matches seem to make it look like IC's second best MU in the top 8. IC's can actually out space Marth with blizzard which sets up a grab. Ice blocks are a good harassment tool, though he can stop them with his sword, this could lead straight into a grab if spaced correctly. PPU has played a few IC's recently, and the only one he's beaten is Fly, though it is worth noting PPU is the only Marth Fly has ever lost to. As for the Doc matchup, I believe a commentator said they both agreed it was in docs favor when they played each other at KoC2
Bones0
Smash Legend
It's dumb to base your opinions on results between individual players and what commentators say...
Ezzee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 187
Well, the most recent results show that IC's beat Marth. Iv'e tried to find as many Marth vs IC matches as I could and IC's seem to be at and advantage. Yeah, I could've done better than a commentator quote but I know PPU said it somewhere, but I can't remember.
Bones0
Smash Legend
So are you just going to change your mind on the matchup if PPU starts winning vs. IC mains?
Ezzee
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Messages
- 187
He's the only Marth main that I've seen play agains any IC's, and he's proven he can beat Fly, but he still struggles against other IC's. I would like to see how some other Marth's do against top level IC's, but there aren't to many. The most recent set was at BH3, where PPU lost to Nintendude. Actualy, now that I think about it, PPU lost to Nintendude, who, unless I'm missing something, is not as good as Fly, who PPU has beaten. Was PPU just off that day, because I'm pretty sure he's better than Nintendude.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i watched the match closely
PPU was playing fine, maybe like 80 or 90% lol. nintendude was just playing amazing though and he had a great burst quality, going for fast wd dsmashes that fly wouldn't normally go for. PPU figured out how to get through strong IC defense, so against fly he was able to figure it out, since he is mostly a defensive player. nintendude mixed in some good offense, like run up shield, and more wd jabs and wd dsmashes to keep PPU on his toes
overall great match
PPU was playing fine, maybe like 80 or 90% lol. nintendude was just playing amazing though and he had a great burst quality, going for fast wd dsmashes that fly wouldn't normally go for. PPU figured out how to get through strong IC defense, so against fly he was able to figure it out, since he is mostly a defensive player. nintendude mixed in some good offense, like run up shield, and more wd jabs and wd dsmashes to keep PPU on his toes
overall great match
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I wouldn't say ppu was playing fine, he missed a ton of little things that gave too many openings. I was so disappointed to see him get hit by ICs side b three times in a row.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
So did the opponent, you really need to look more closely what happens in the ENTIRE match not just specific situations. Saying someone messed up stuff just because it's his own fault only is completely disrespectful to what the other did. If you don't do that then it's clearly taking bias on one player.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
to be fair it is really hard to edge guard an ic's who is good at mixing up his recovery
especially with marth when you really need to be in the right position to not whiff
especially with marth when you really need to be in the right position to not whiff
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I thought PPU was just handling Nintendude's approaches badly. A lot of what Nintendude did to get in would be very, very easy to stuff with things like rising fade-away sh fair.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
taj 6-0'd wobbles with marth the weekend before EVO
twitch archives disappeared though
twitch archives disappeared though
Bones0
Smash Legend
And by Marth, you mean Mewtwo.
Yeah, and it wasn't just a 6-0, it was 6 JV5 stocks
JacopeX
Smash Apprentice
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Character_matchup_(SSBM)
How out dated is this? As in years?
Is there an accurate one somewhere?
How out dated is this? As in years?
Is there an accurate one somewhere?
Bones0
Smash Legend
There's never been a very high level of consensus on any matchup chart, which is honestly fine because they don't really help players in any way.
The only MU that matters is the MU between Mewtwo and everyone else in the "badassness" category.
Even with Captain Falcon, 100:0 with everyone else.
Even with Captain Falcon, 100:0 with everyone else.
Upke
Smash Journeyman
I agree with so little of that that it's funny.
so....are Roy, Mewtwo, Ness and Zelda REALLY so terrible that they dont have a chance of placing top 8 at a major/national? could someone enlighten me as to why? Ive been retired from smash since 06.......Ive got very little idea of the current metagame.
Upke
Smash Journeyman
They just all have glaring weaknesses. Zelda is slow as **** and gets camped with ease. She has no real answer for projectile camping unless she wants to risk ledgecamping. Her kill moves are also easily avoidable. Ness is one of the easiest characters in the game to edgeguard. Roy is basically rendered nonthreatening by platform camping and his recovery is much worse than Marth's because he falls so fast. All three of those also get destroyed by Sheik, as do many low tiers. I rarely play Mewtwo, so I can't speak for him.
john!
Smash Hero
every character has weaknesses; specific weaknesses like that aren't really relevant.
RMNZ don't place well because they are so bad that the person playing them would have to be significantly better than the other top players that they beat to make top 8... and nobody is that good.
if you put today's mango in a 2006 MLG tournament, though, he would probably be able to get top 8 with all kinds of bad characters, just because of skill difference
RMNZ don't place well because they are so bad that the person playing them would have to be significantly better than the other top players that they beat to make top 8... and nobody is that good.
if you put today's mango in a 2006 MLG tournament, though, he would probably be able to get top 8 with all kinds of bad characters, just because of skill difference
Upke
Smash Journeyman
I was giving him reasons why they are so bad, instead of just saying "they are bad". Those aren't all of the reasons but are definitely relevant.
Well this one is stickied, which means that it's the "official" one
hungrybox
Smash Legend
Yoshi should be higher methinks
Bones0
Smash Legend
If you aren't a fan of Amsa, I'm not sure why you're still playing this game.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
amsa is incredible
INCROYABLE
INCROYABLE
INCROYABLE
INCROYABLE
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
^this a lot...
like a super whole lot
excited for apex teams..
Double yoshi, kinda weird/nervous.. xD
like a super whole lot
excited for apex teams..
Double yoshi, kinda weird/nervous.. xD
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
This, although Taj proves that Mewtwo can do something at a high level even today. I still don't understand why he's so low due to this. That said, Mewtwo has some glaring problems.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Obviously because top players are their own fans.
I, for one, like seeing myself punch the hell out of everybody.