• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
both 1st and 2nd place won a national around 3-4 months ago
yea...it was the first time in about 3 years....and everyone's always so quick to state 1 event isn't enough....but I think truthfully all trolling aside...people just want fox to be number 1. So he's there. From what I've seen up close Falco is the far better choice for number 1 but no. People want what they want.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
If anything it's the opposite, people just want Falco to be number one and it's always because of tourney results. And under the same stupid logic that's applied, you could say Axe placing 4th at Pound 5 and outplacing M2K means Pikachu deserves a top tier position.

I also don't understand why people only mention who gets #1 at tourneys while ignoring ever single other placement. There are plenty of Foxes in the top 36 of Pound 5 that never get mentioned.
 

MTKO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
294
Location
Hampden, Maine
If anything it's the opposite, people just want Falco to be number one and it's always because of tourney results. And under the same stupid logic that's applied, you could say Axe placing 4th at Pound 5 and outplacing M2K means Pikachu deserves a top tier position.

I also don't understand why people only mention who gets #1 at tourneys while ignoring ever single other placement. There are plenty of Foxes in the top 36 of Pound 5 that never get mentioned.
The tournament results logic is something I disagree with as well. I think people are way too quick to jump to conclusions about a characters placement in the tier list because they're just looking at the result and assume that because that character and player got first place, that players character is better than all other characters. But they don't stop think about all the many other important factors that go into the game. They just see that 1st place and assume.
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
As far as im concerned....players make the characters, so specific placements mean alot less to me when it comes to a tier list, however I do like to look at overall character trends as far as placing. So fox winning means less than several foxes placing in the top ten or something. IMO ususally the ppl winning national tourneys are just better than everyone else.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Singles Bracket:

1: Dr. PP
2: Armada
3: HBox
4: Axe
5: Mew2king
5: Hax
7: Cactaur
7: Vanz
9: Cyrain
9: Shroomed
9: Amsah
9: Remen

there's 3 foxes here, if i'm not mistaken; remen, cyrain, and cactuar. not sure if m2k (or anyone else) whipped out the fox or not, i'm going to assume m2k stuck to sheik and marth only

either way, people make it seem like fox doesn't place **** anymore at nationals but he still does okay. and as i already said earlier, the top 2 players at DGDTJ were both fox players.
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
Yea, DGDTJ wasnt a national tho, just saying. and Jman was flown out there to win that tournament lol...cuz thats what good player fund players do, they win and put the money back in the pot lol.

Also, I believe unknown and silent wolf placed just outside of top ten as well. so top half of the bracket is at least 5 foxes from pound 5. and Im pretty sure that Lovage did pretty well too.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Singles Bracket:

1: Dr. PP
2: Armada
3: HBox
4: Axe
5: Mew2king
5: Hax
7: Cactaur
7: Vanz
9: Cyrain
9: Shroomed
9: Amsah
9: Remen
13: Unknown522
13: Zhu
13: Kels
13: Silent Wolf
17: Chu
17: Strawhat
17: Lovage
17: S2J
17: MacD
17: Blunted_Object
17: Mang0
17: KirbyKaze
25: col bol
25: Tect
25: Tope
25: Raynex
25: Chillin
25: Tec0
25: LOZR
25: D'OH
33: Redd
33: Plank
33: V3ctorMan
33: DJ Nintendo

lot of foxes here
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
1: Dr. PP
2: Armada
3: HBox
4: Axe
5: Mew2king

5: Hax
7: Cactaur
7: Vanz
9: Cyrain
9: Shroomed
9: Amsah
9: Remen
13: Unknown522

13: Zhu
13: Kels
13: Silent Wolf
17: Chu
17: Strawhat
17: Lovage
17: S2J
17: MacD
17: Blunted_Object
17: Mang0
17: KirbyKaze
25: col bol
25: Tect
25: Tope
25: Raynex
25: Chillin
25: Tec0
25: LOZR
25: D'OH
33: Redd
33: Plank
33: V3ctorMan
33: DJ Nintendo

The blue ones are just ppl Ive seen use fox in a tourney setting. Dont really count blunted, axe, or PP, but still lol.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
If anything it's the opposite, people just want Falco to be number one and it's always because of tourney results. And under the same stupid logic that's applied, you could say Axe placing 4th at Pound 5 and outplacing M2K means Pikachu deserves a top tier position.

I also don't understand why people only mention who gets #1 at tourneys while ignoring ever single other placement. There are plenty of Foxes in the top 36 of Pound 5 that never get mentioned.
I'm not talking about who places where. I mean in terms of dominating everyone else I think Falco and Jigglypuff simply have a better argument.

look at this results Pound 4:

1. Mango (Jiggs/Falco)
2. Hungrybox (Jiggs)
3. Amsah (Shiek)
4. Armada (Peach/Fox)
5. M2K (Marth/Fox/Shiek)
5. Jman (Fox)
7. Lucky (Fox)
7. Zhu (Falco)
9. Tope (Sheik)
9. Silentspectre (Captain Falcon)
9. Dr. Peepee (Falco)
9. Plank (Sheik)
13. Hax (Captain Falcon)
13. DEHF (Falco)
13. Darkrain (Captain Falcon)
13. Linguini (Ganondorf)
17. Axe (Pikachu/Falco)
17. Remen (Fox)
17. Ka-Master (Luigi)
17. Zgetto (Fox)
17. Over triforce (Sheik)
17. Silent Wolf (Fox)
17. Kage (Ganondorf)
17. PC Chris (Fox/Falco)
25. Cactuar (Fox)
25. Swift (Fox)
25. Falcomist (Falco)
25. Chu (Ice Climbers)
25. Adam (Falco/Sheik)
25. Vidjo (Peach)
25. Drephen (Sheik)
25. Kels (Fox)
33. Shroomed (Dr. Mario)
33. Scar (Captain Falcon)
33. HBK (Marth)
33. Lovage (Fox)
33. macd (Peach)
33. I.B. (??? the canadian guy.... <_<)
33. Kirbykaze (Sheik)
33. G$ (Marth/Falco)
33. unknown522 (Fox)
33. Th0rne (Falco)
33. RaynEX (Fox)
33. Darc (Jiggs)
33. Vanz (Jiggs/Peach/Sheik)
33. Strawhat (Marth)
33. HMW (Dr. Mario)
33. Eggm (Fox)



DGDTJ was just 1 tournament out of about 97 that year with fox placing so well. Falco and Puff consistently place higher than fox. This despite the OVERWHELMING amount of fox or co-fox players in comparison. The only reason why there are even so many foxes that place high is because at every tournament lets say 100 entrances 50% of them use fox as a main or co-main. So really people are confusing popularity with greatness here.

Not that Fox isn't good but he's not number 1 above falco/puff. At best I can except Fox tied for 2nd or maybe a 3 way tie for 1st.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Okay, but you're forgetting the fact that the reason why there's lots of Fox players entering, and the fact that a HIGH PERCENTAGE of them make it to the bracket, is due to the fact that Fox is a good character. And you're acting as if Falco is a much less popular choice than Fox right now, and I don't believe that's true at all. Lots of players still use Falco. If anything, the last couple of years have had a decline in Marth usage and a rise in Falco usage.
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
lol @ fox being the better player.

but pound 4 had hella foxes too. I wouldn't say falco was dominant from those results. and I wouldn't make the claim that fox does well because everybody plays fox..
..fox ***** dude.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
Jigglypuff is NOT better than Fox, Spam.

Have you seen HBox's (Mango doesn't count cause he's Mango) results lately? People just needed to learn the match-up (i.e. that being needlessly aggressive results in eating lots of bairs and a potential rest).
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
umm lol? colbol is THE puff slayer, he consistently beats hungrybox in florida tournaments. he's been doing that for at least two years now.

and who cares if he's not top 3? he's arguably at least the 4th best player right now, so that defeats your entire point
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
umm lol? colbol is THE puff slayer, he consistently beats hungrybox in florida tournaments. he's been doing that for at least two years now.

and who cares if he's not top 3? he's arguably at least the 4th best player right now, so that defeats your entire point
hbox still won the tourny lol
 

rhan

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
6,107
Location
SoVA 757
I'm kind of upset Spam Arrows doesn't know who I.B. plays.. I really hope that's just joking around..
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
I'm kind of upset Spam Arrows doesn't know who I.B. plays.. I really hope that's just joking around..
It's a Joke...obviously I know who I.B. Plays...i'm a marth main.



Anyways I think people are confusing my point. I never said fox isn't good. I just said he's not number 1. Then people say oh...Puff isn't better than fox...look at this fox vs puff match here..*posts link to match I've already seen since I subscribe to the uploader*....nice...Thats actually the same as me saying Pikachu is the best then posting vids of Axe ****** fox...it would be the same logic. Falco is almost as popular as fox but there are still a good amount of falco players that play fox also. Zhu, Shiz, Mango, PC...the list goes on..

Since this runs on what if scenarios let say the amount of Foxes in an international tournament where to switch with the amount of puff's that enter....well I can tell you just from being at a few that there are usually at max 10 or less puff players. Out of those 10 at least 2 of them place top 10 sometimes 3 or 4 depending on if Mango tries/plays puff or Vanz goes puff. So if you take the same scale of skill and multiply it by....5 or 6 meaning 50-60 puffs enter an international instead of 2 or 3 placing top 10....you could end up with you'd have 12-24 players capable of placing top 10 or near it depending on pools. then you take the the 60+ fox/fox alts and lower that to the amount of while keeping the same ratio of not good-good players. So you get 10 or less....but lets be nice and say 10. Only 2-4 make it out of pools depending on who can make it and luck.

Considering all other characters have the same number of players that make it to brackets on average. I'd say the 2-4 foxes would be very lucky if 1 of them made top 10 but the odds of 1 placing top 3-5 at lets say...4 international tournaments would be almost impossible. Meanwhile 12-24 Puff's ranging from andale-darc-Hbox-Mango in skill level....ouch.

If Puff had the same kind of numbers that Fox had she'd be number 1 with a bullet.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,550
I don't really understand the obsession with everyone with who is the #1 character. The top 3 are all of relatively similar tournament viability and where they're ranked within those 3 is highly subjective. Trying to quantify tournament viability always leads to this and regardless of how good your argument is you aren't going to be able to convince many people to change their opinions.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
It's a Joke...obviously I know who I.B. Plays...i'm a marth main.



Anyways I think people are confusing my point. I never said fox isn't good. I just said he's not number 1. Then people say oh...Puff isn't better than fox...look at this fox vs puff match here..*posts link to match I've already seen since I subscribe to the uploader*....nice...Thats actually the same as me saying Pikachu is the best then posting vids of Axe ****** fox...it would be the same logic. Falco is almost as popular as fox but there are still a good amount of falco players that play fox also. Zhu, Shiz, Mango, PC...the list goes on..

Since this runs on what if scenarios let say the amount of Foxes in an international tournament where to switch with the amount of puff's that enter....well I can tell you just from being at a few that there are usually at max 10 or less puff players. Out of those 10 at least 2 of them place top 10 sometimes 3 or 4 depending on if Mango tries/plays puff or Vanz goes puff. So if you take the same scale of skill and multiply it by....5 or 6 meaning 50-60 puffs enter an international instead of 2 or 3 placing top 10....you could end up with you'd have 12-24 players capable of placing top 10 or near it depending on pools. then you take the the 60+ fox/fox alts and lower that to the amount of while keeping the same ratio of not good-good players. So you get 10 or less....but lets be nice and say 10. Only 2-4 make it out of pools depending on who can make it and luck.

Considering all other characters have the same number of players that make it to brackets on average. I'd say the 2-4 foxes would be very lucky if 1 of them made top 10 but the odds of 1 placing top 3-5 at lets say...4 international tournaments would be almost impossible. Meanwhile 12-24 Puff's ranging from andale-darc-Hbox-Mango in skill level....ouch.

If Puff had the same kind of numbers that Fox had she'd be number 1 with a bullet.
You are making a terrible infallacy fallacy because of misrepresentation through generalization. The amount of a character that enters a tournament has absolutely nothing to do with how many of those characters end up in the top x of players at that particular tournament. That would only apply if every player had a completely equal chance of winning and it was up to chance, but we all know that's not how it is. It doesn't matter if there are 10 Puff players entering an international tournament, or 100, or 1000, if Mango and hungrybox are part of that. The top 5 is still going to only have those 2 Puff players regardless. Players represent themselves, they don't represent "chances" of becoming a top player through that character; you are making a nonsensical extrapolation.

I also hope you realize even with the increase of Puffs in the past two years, top 5s at internationals still only consist of hungrybox and mango, which further proves what I just said. This is yet another reason why you have to look beyond the very top of ranks when evaluating how good a character is off tourney results.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,550
After Dawn, what the **** is an infallacy?

But otherwise you make good points.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,550
Yeah I have to wake up in 4 hrs to go to a tournament, I have no idea why I'm still awake.
WORTH IT
 

Crooked Crow

drank from lakes of sorrow
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
2,247
jigglypuff is not better than spacies.

hungrybox just happens to be a really good player, same with axe or cosmo. does that make their characters the best?

not necessarily.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
You are making a terrible infallacy fallacy because of misrepresentation through generalization. The amount of a character that enters a tournament has absolutely nothing to do with how many of those characters end up in the top x of players at that particular tournament. That would only apply if every player had a completely equal chance of winning and it was up to chance, but we all know that's not how it is. It doesn't matter if there are 10 Puff players entering an international tournament, or 100, or 1000, if Mango and hungrybox are part of that. The top 5 is still going to only have those 2 Puff players regardless. Players represent themselves, they don't represent "chances" of becoming a top player through that character; you are making a nonsensical extrapolation.

I also hope you realize even with the increase of Puffs in the past two years, top 5s at internationals still only consist of hungrybox and mango, which further proves what I just said. This is yet another reason why you have to look beyond the very top of ranks when evaluating how good a character is off tourney results.
It's a what if scenario...you can't really say it would or wouldn't happen because it hasn't nor will it ever happen. I'm talking about statistics. What are the odds of there only being 2 or 3 good puffs if 70 enter? I understand that player skill plays the biggest factor but this isn't the best player thread. I'm just saying Popularity plays a bigger role then everyone realizes it seems. In the amount that make it to bracket and the placements in tier it seems. If anything it means the players that make it threw with ****ty characters have more player skill...at least that is my opinion. Fox isn't number 1 above puff and Falco...puff is too simple you can barely try and best half the most of the other characters (minus good Doc's and Y.Links). Falco is just..too good...I think overall he has a slight edge to fox. I just can't see Fox as number 1..he doesn't deserve that spot.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
well Falco>Fox is kinda obvious to me. Puff>fox is debatable. I think placing them tied for 2nd with Falco right above them would be fine...but no...there always has to be something wrong with each list I guess....>_>.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
i think right now its

falco
fox
sheik
puff
marth
peach
falcon
ics
samus
blah
Sheik over puff? Well...Some sheiks have done well the past year but i'm not sure above puff...Based off ROM3 results u could make an arguement but thats just one event. Sheik does place higher than Puff outside of US tournaments though.
 

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
It's a what if scenario...you can't really say it would or wouldn't happen because it hasn't nor will it ever happen. I'm talking about statistics. What are the odds of there only being 2 or 3 good puffs if 70 enter? I understand that player skill plays the biggest factor but this isn't the best player thread. I'm just saying Popularity plays a bigger role then everyone realizes it seems. In the amount that make it to bracket and the placements in tier it seems. If anything it means the players that make it threw with ****ty characters have more player skill...at least that is my opinion. Fox isn't number 1 above puff and Falco...puff is too simple you can barely try and best half the most of the other characters (minus good Doc's and Y.Links). Falco is just..too good...I think overall he has a slight edge to fox. I just can't see Fox as number 1..he doesn't deserve that spot.
And I'm telling you that your statistics are completely irrelevant because they don't mean anything. That scenario doesn't work.


I'm just saying Popularity plays a bigger role then everyone realizes it seems.
I also hope you realize even with the increase of Puffs in the past two years, top 5s at internationals still only consist of hungrybox and mango, which further proves what I just said. This is yet another reason why you have to look beyond the very top of ranks when evaluating how good a character is off tourney results.
 

`Jammin' Jobus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
489
puff is hella gay but her lack of projectile and mobility issues are starting to become exploited more and more.
 

Archangel

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
6,453
Location
Wilmington, Delaware
NNID
combat22386
And I'm telling you that your statistics are completely irrelevant because they don't mean anything. That scenario doesn't work.
oh yeah...cuz there use to be 2 puff puff players then 4 now there are 8 and 1/2.....thats a huge increase my friend. Every other character has increased as well but nobody like fox. I gather it's because of how sheep-like humans are. For example people who play mmorpgs often don't explore character builds themselves. They go and look up what characters and builds are rated the best and then they follow someone's guide on how to build that exact character so they can do the same thing. Fox has been rated number 1 since 2006...thats 5 years and has always been top 3. It's most a Huge portion of current top fox players are around 2006-7. Considering the end result it's not much different from MMORPG's. People flock to whomever "they say" is the best. Despite fox's nearly 4 year run of not winning a major event.....smdh...now I see why people hate the smash community.
 
Top Bottom