Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Bones0]

I'm curious as to how much Sheik has done in tournaments. When did she win anything really huge? Not that it means anything at all, because it doesn't, but I always read "x character doesn't do y things in tournament, so they're not that good" (the rationale behind Marth not being A tier for some people).

But we consistently place Sheik super high. If she's done well at some point in this game' history, let me know. I just see a disconnect in logic.

I think Sheik is the best option to win a tournament without the use of a secondary. She doesn't really seem to get hard countered by anyone, and she also doesn't seem to struggle with any of the stage choices much more than the others.

 

[strawhats]

I think Sheik is the best option to win a tournament without the use of a secondary. She doesn't really seem to get hard countered by anyone, and she also doesn't seem to struggle with any of the stage choices much more than the others.

what do u think of sheik/ICs. Historically, It's gotta be one of the staple MUs of the MD/VA metagame.

 

[Bones0]

what do u think of sheik/ICs. Historically, It's gotta be one of the staple MUs of the MD/VA metagame.

Yeah, I forgot about ICs. Idk how hard most Sheiks consider the matchup, but ICs aren't really common enough to make a huge difference either way.

 

[Xyzz]

I like how Marth hasn't done **** in tourney for years.
PP has used him in GFs for some tournaments now, where he took a set of Armada and defeated M2k's Sheik (arguably that's his worst MU, right?).

Totally no representation in tournament at all. (I don't really put too much weight on actual results, but I think it's quite hilarious if it gets brought up and is just wrong :D)

@Bones: I think the match up is considered pretty even, but most ICs player have vastly more experience in it, so they tend to do well

 

[strawhats]

**** up bair/fair spacing as a sheik main on ICs shield= instant grab to 60%/death if your fighting a Chu/Wobbles/Fly/Nintendude type ICs imo. I saw Amsah playing vs Chu a while back in some friendlies, he utilized wavedash off platform to bair to zone out the climbers pretty effectively. BAIR CAMP maybe???

 

[choknater]

sheik is amazing!!

mew2king beat mango with sheik dude, and wins tons of matches with sheik

KK always places high

i will never doubt sheik. top tier since day 1

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's not that I'm doubting it either. I think she's a top tier character. I was just curious as to why people who judge a character''s tier placement on results/how well they do decide to keep her where she is.

And I would agree, Bones.

 

[choknater]

i had trouble understanding that sentence grammatically haha

sheik vs ic's is slightly ic's favor imo. i'd say 6-4 or closer

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

why is everyone still putting fox above falco?

s
falco
fox
sheik/jiggs

A
marth/peach
CF
IC's

B
Doc
pika
samus
ganon

thats all i am sure about. but i do think yoshi is better then the current tier list says and would move him up.

 

[Purpletuce]

The best standalone character is falco, he doesn't have too much problems with anyone, just some characters force him to play smarter. In theory, I would say fox would be the best as a standalone, but that has proven impractical. I also think fox has a problem that he can approach any given match so many ways, it is hard to know what play style is best where, let alone be able to use all of his play styles well.

Shiek is probably the best at making lower tier characters irrelevant, but she has a few problems with more relevant characters like puff or ice climbers.

Peach isn't a worse character because her best player retired. You can check the frame data, everything works the same.

 

[choknater]

i think mango has the most solid fox playstyle because he knows very well when to retreat

 

[Bones0]

Mango's Fox is garb. He never grabs. His Falco is def still his best character.

 

[BTmoney]

i think mango has the most solid fox playstyle because he knows very well when to retreat

I think that goes to Jman or m2k

 

[AlienAllen]

Hax, why would you put Falcon on the same level as Doc?

 

[Jockmaster]

Sheik is the most fundamentally sound char in the game, that's why she will always be top tier

In regards to Fox v Falco...I really think it comes down to the opponents MU experience. Falco is a more bursty and powerful char against those with weak MU xp, but Fox overall is simply a more well put together character. Fox is the best character in the game BARELY over Falco, but Falco looks a lot better against people who can't handle shield pressure

edit: and there is no way Jiggs == Sheik. Jiggs is just literally the gayest character in the game. With enough patience any one of the S tiers (spacies and Sheik) stick her in the pooper

 

[Bones0]

Sheik is the most fundamentally sound char in the game, that's why she will always be top tier

In regards to Fox v Falco...I really think it comes down to the opponents MU experience. Falco is a more bursty and powerful char against those with weak MU xp, but Fox overall is simply a more well put together character. Fox is the best character in the game BARELY over Falco, but Falco looks a lot better against people who can't handle shield pressure

edit: and there is no way Jiggs == Sheik. Jiggs is just literally the gayest character in the game. With enough patience any one of the S tiers (spacies and Sheik) stick her in the pooper

That's funny, I think of Fox and Falco as the opposite. Even people who have lots of Falco experience are still going to get comboed hard and probably will still be horrible vs. lasers for whatever reason. Not being used to Fox just leads to so many BS kills like shine spikes or missed SDI on uairs/drills, and just a general failure to deal with his speed + platforming.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Sheik is the most fundamentally sound char in the game

What does this even mean

Fox overall is simply a more well put together character

What does this even mean

Jiggs is just literally the gayest character in the game.

What does this even mean

---

I'm adblocking this avatar its creepy

 

[Bones0]

I'm adblocking this avatar its creepy

Racist much?

 

[Jockmaster]

What does this even mean



What does this even mean



What does this even mean

---

I'm adblocking this avatar its creepy

I really don't know how else to say these things

-Sheik simply has the most consistent, simple, and overall useful moveset + mechanics in the game. You might take that as "easiest to use", but it is kind of more than that. This doesn't make her the best character, simply because she lacks that "OH****NIGGA" move (aka she doesn't have a shine), but besides that nobody else can beat her overall prowess. I really don't feel like typing an essay out for this, I'm assuming you know enough about Sheik to know what I mean.

-It comes down to the fact that I believe Fox has more given options for offense and defense in a given situation versus Falco. He is a more dynamic character with harder punishes and better defense overall. Falco has better combo ability and absurdly burstier offense, but those things take a back seat to defense in my opinion. Once again, when saying these things I assume you know the ups and downs of each character when I state this.

-Jiggs is a simple character who is played best with a very simple and spam-y playstyle. This playstyle can be hard-countered with a decent combination of patience and consistency. Basically, she doesn't have the dynamic characteristic to put herself in the S tier.

-**** you ***** golf wang

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I think you defended your "argument" very poorly (I'm not even touching your offense/defense reasoning for Fox and Falco), but more importantly

Bones you do know I have a black man as my avatar as well, right? lol

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Bones you do know I have a black man as my avatar as well, right? lol

 

[Jockmaster]

I think you defended your "argument" very poorly (I'm not even touching your offense/defense reasoning for Fox and Falco)

ok cool man

That's funny, I think of Fox and Falco as the opposite. Even people who have lots of Falco experience are still going to get comboed hard and probably will still be horrible vs. lasers for whatever reason. Not being used to Fox just leads to so many BS kills like shine spikes or missed SDI on uairs/drills, and just a general failure to deal with his speed + platforming.

Having experience vs lasers makes the MU an entirely different story vs having no experience...just from a mentality aspect. Lasers get more in your head when you aren't used to playing against them. And the just having a basic understanding of the neutral game seems easier vs Fox than Falco. Falco is like this entirely different beast that requires a completely new mindset to play against, but with experience can be tamed; Fox is a character that is simply really technically good all around but still (in my experience) doesn't **** AS much against those who don't know how to deal with him at a given level of play.

 

[Bones0]

I think you defended your "argument" very poorly (I'm not even touching your offense/defense reasoning for Fox and Falco), but more importantly

Bones you do know I have a black man as my avatar as well, right? lol

You're... not Tim Duncan?

The world truly has lost its innocence.

 

[choknater]

who called mango's fox garbage

LOL!!

the kid is amazing

 

[Blistering Speed]

Jman perfected Fox's play style about four years ago and nobody noticed. Things have only declined since then, the success of Javi, Mango et al. ****ed things up by leading Fox players to focus on all the wrong things.

EDIT: To his credit, SFAT is the only current player on the right track.

 

[Griffard]

Jman perfected Fox's play style about four years ago and nobody noticed. Things have only declined since then, the success of Javi, Mango et al. ****ed things up by leading Fox players to focus on all the wrong things.

EDIT: To his credit, SFAT is the only current player on the right track.

Woah. I agree with all of that actually. If Jman was just *better* he'd have been winning every tournament.

edit: obviously he was still a top player and still super dope. Does he still play??

 

[Bones0]

who called mango's fox garbage

LOL!!

the kid is amazing

His Fox does really good because Mango is really good. I've only ever seen him grab vs. Armada at G2 and Hbox. Everyone else he just goes in on and gets away with it because he's Mango.


Jman currently resides in the middle of nowhere PA, ~ an hour north of my middle of nowhere MD. I think he went back to NY, but idk if that was just a temporary trip or if he's going back for good.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You're an hour away from jman? In the midwest thats a practice partner!

 

[choknater]

mango is good

and wins

because he makes proper decisions

 

[Jockmaster]

Mango DOES proper decisions

I feel like its a completely reflexive process for him

 

[choknater]

his amazing fundamentals come from playing puff

i've tried puff

you really have to protect yourself and also anticipate where your opponent is gonna go. really trains you to play good melee. i should play her more, but i get bored after 1 or 2 games.

 

[strawhats]

where do you think mango's puff would be in the current metagame, if he was still using her. Just a random question.

 

[Fortune]

toppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

edit: actually idk

 

[t3chn0g0at]

I firmly believe that Pichu is a better character than Kirby. His only disadvantage is that he hurts himself, but he kills about 50% earlier than Kirby, so it evens out.

 

[Fafnir]

I'll be forced to disagree here. Pichu's incredibly light weight, very short range, and self-damaging attacks put him a fair bit below Kirby. Sure, the little rodent may have some pretty cool tools at his disposal, but at the end of the day, as a character, he's got very little to offer.

 

[Griffard]

I used to believe Pichu was a ton better than Kirby, now I'm really uncertain. That being said, there are zero notable pichu players, while there are at least a few kirbys. RRR is who I'm thinking of specifically putting in some work in the midwest.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Pichu's better than Kirby, purely by virtue of his superior mobility. Kirby straight up cannot interact with many higher tier's fundamental turtling strategies.

These "worst character" debates always devolve into theory **** unfortunately. Nobody plays the characters, nobody cares who is slightly more terrible.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I mean, why do you care which is worse? They are both incredibly awful and lose to everyone above them. Their placement on the tier list probably revolves entirely on the match-up. And no, I don't care to watch anyone ever, ever play it.

 

[t3chn0g0at]

I feel that Pichu possesses more and better options than Kirby. His speed makes up for his lack of range, and almost makes up for his weight with one of the better recoveries in the game. Almost.


Edit: I care because Kirby shall take his rightful throne at the bottom of the tier list. Justice will be his.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ICG we all know thats you