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In comparison to Zelda, Mewtwo and Roy, Yeah, Yoshi's pretty good
yes, that is what I think. Although, one spot lower on the tier list doesn't really mean THAT much anyway.
agreed, i don't really see any reason to put yoshi much higher unless we see some results. you can make any low tier sound really good if you twist your words enough...
well, seeing as the tier list is a ranking of character vibility in high-level tournament play... things are looking pretty bad for yoshi, aren't they?
(but sure good spacies matchups are really important in melee... his Fox matchup is really okay btw )
Yeah I think you have a valid opinion
Falco-Yoshi isn't 80-20 and definitely isn't free. It's 65-35 at worse for Yoshi and I honestly think Yoshi wins the MU on Dreamland.
The problem is Yoshi is the hardest character in the game to play effectively. It takes a lot of time to consistently perform all his character-specific ATs, wavelands, and DJC aerials. You also get punished hard for making a technical mistake because it can mess up a combo or cause you to plummet to your death (usually involves DJC).
I think doc is at falcons level if you are underrating falcon and overrating doc. Doc is definitely in no danger of moving down, but neither is he posing a much of a threat to ICs/Falcon.
I got flamed so hard for saying that. lul.
*Obligatory "Her down B!" joke*
Maybe 80-20 sounds a bit harsh... it's just that I have stuff like Peach - ICs or Sheik - CF at 70 - 30, and I feel Yoshi loses worse to Falco than those.
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You're joking right?
zelda has the best move in the game
In this case "your mum" would've worked as well... horrible jokes are horrible <3 :D
Maybe 80-20 sounds a bit harsh... it's just that I have stuff like Peach - ICs or Sheik - CF at 70 - 30, and I feel Yoshi loses worse to Falco than those.
Also, whenever I get hit by Yoshi (outside of DJ stuff) playing Falco, I feel it's 100% on me. I screwed up tech skill or did something ********. Not something like "might work out, I'll just try it... awww, he read it and punished accordingly", but a 100% stupid mistake like "never do that in this situation". Sure he punishes those extremely well on the bird, but there really is little more reason to get hit by Yoshi as Falco than there is for Fox to get hit by Zelda. They just pretty much invalidate the other characters neutral game.
Regarding DL: I don't mind that stage at all. Sure, it can take a while longer if I can't get a dair spike, an edge guard at higher percent where the bair will beat the DJ or some stupid shine gimp, but would rather have to kill the dino right away instead. On the other hand there's so much room to work with and establish a situation where I feel perfectly comfortable going in. The only stage I dislike in that match up is FoD, because the lack of side platforms sometimes makes it less free to get out of bad / too neutral situations :D
Then again, you've probably played a lot more Falcos than I've played Yoshis (one, although that guy lives super close (three minutes by foot), so we tend to play a lot ...
Like I said, I feel Yoshi - Falco IS worse than ICs - Peach or Peach - Puff... and Ganon is indeed invalid (Kage is a ****ing hero).
).
I think that you beat me because I never played vs one.
i destroyed you and i had played zss for a day (since she just came out)
Strong moves = good character. Slowness doesn't matter when you aren't doing anything interesting to approach or l canceling.
I don't like the "there is no reason to get hit" argument because it only holds true for comparative player skill levels instead of characters. Two equally skilled players will always get hits off each other.In this case "your mum" would've worked as well... horrible jokes are horrible <3 :D
Maybe 80-20 sounds a bit harsh... it's just that I have stuff like Peach - ICs or Sheik - CF at 70 - 30, and I feel Yoshi loses worse to Falco than those.
Also, whenever I get hit by Yoshi (outside of DJ stuff) playing Falco, I feel it's 100% on me. I screwed up tech skill or did something ********. Not something like "might work out, I'll just try it... awww, he read it and punished accordingly", but a 100% stupid mistake like "never do that in this situation". Sure he punishes those extremely well on the bird, but there really is little more reason to get hit by Yoshi as Falco than there is for Fox to get hit by Zelda. They just pretty much invalidate the other characters neutral game.
Regarding DL: I don't mind that stage at all. Sure, it can take a while longer if I can't get a dair spike, an edge guard at higher percent where the bair will beat the DJ or some stupid shine gimp, but would rather have to kill the dino right away instead. On the other hand there's so much room to work with and establish a situation where I feel perfectly comfortable going in. The only stage I dislike in that match up is FoD, because the lack of side platforms sometimes makes it less free to get out of bad / too neutral situations :D
Then again, you've probably played a lot more Falcos than I've played Yoshis (one, although that guy lives super close (three minutes by foot), so we tend to play a lot ...
I was too busy chain grabbing him to death to notice his cool shield stuff :x
Well imagine what i can do when I actually know the matchup, it goes 2 ways son.
Although I think that point is exaggerated, it is kinda true. There is also Peach and Sheik which make it hard to get things done. As well as super campy Fox. All of them are winnable, but if played right it can be quite an uphill battle.
I definitely don't think Yoshi beats Falco on DL. That being said, most of my MU experience is against a Falco main 5th in my state. . . (although my state isn't too good tbh)
Right now I'm a player who has taken matches off of strong players off and on, and If I play really well, I think I'm a PR level player. I also don't think I'm able to say I can play Yoshi well enough to use him in the MU. Your friend probably doesn't use him well enough to make the MU work.In this case "your mum" would've worked as well... horrible jokes are horrible <3 :D
Maybe 80-20 sounds a bit harsh... it's just that I have stuff like Peach - ICs or Sheik - CF at 70 - 30, and I feel Yoshi loses worse to Falco than those.
Also, whenever I get hit by Yoshi (outside of DJ stuff) playing Falco, I feel it's 100% on me. I screwed up tech skill or did something ********. Not something like "might work out, I'll just try it... awww, he read it and punished accordingly", but a 100% stupid mistake like "never do that in this situation". Sure he punishes those extremely well on the bird, but there really is little more reason to get hit by Yoshi as Falco than there is for Fox to get hit by Zelda. They just pretty much invalidate the other characters neutral game.
Regarding DL: I don't mind that stage at all. Sure, it can take a while longer if I can't get a dair spike, an edge guard at higher percent where the bair will beat the DJ or some stupid shine gimp, but would rather have to kill the dino right away instead. On the other hand there's so much room to work with and establish a situation where I feel perfectly comfortable going in. The only stage I dislike in that match up is FoD, because the lack of side platforms sometimes makes it less free to get out of bad / too neutral situations :D
Then again, you've probably played a lot more Falcos than I've played Yoshis (one, although that guy lives super close (three minutes by foot), so we tend to play a lot ...
(single tear) I feel like that is how it goes far too often. I feel like one of Yoshi's bigger problems is he can get enough from his combos to balance these things out, but he has to work so much harder for it.
