Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Pink Reaper]

Purpletuce is amazing, dont put him on the same level as Bones.

To that end also dont put Bones on the level of a troll. Trolling is something you do on purpose. Bones just posts and uses it as a safeguard whenever someone points out that what he said was ********(aka all the time)

 

[Purpletuce]

If ^5 means high five, then ^5 back :D

purpletuce you're just as much of a troll as bones is.

I'm not certain if this is supposed to be a callout, but I think most people in this forum like to joke around, and if that is grounds to be considered a 'troll' so be it, but I think it should be noted that I was referring to worthwhile posts. If your comment was meant to imply that I don't have any worthwhile posts, my apologies. If you see it fit, you may block me. It should be noted that I haven't had very much free time lately, and that has limited my ability to post well-thought out posts, so most of my posts are either joking around, or superficial opinions squeezed out of small gaps in my schedule. (this was posted during a half hour break between classes.) I hope you're not too upset about me misspelling Gannon.

Edit1: Thanks, Star King, I appreciate it.

Edit2: I'm sorry I misinterpreted, I don't know you very well, and the only time I remember talking with you I was poking fun at your main's name. Purple is pretty dope.

Edit3: F***, I just recognized the anime-girl-witch-avatar, my bad. -Embarrassed- -Feel like a d***- my bad.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

lol damn, didn't expect you to take me seriously.

i was just kidding. i love the colour purple.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Stark King is the other guy im The Pink Reaper lol.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

so then why is there a star in your description

HUH

 

[Purpletuce]

F***, I just recognized the anime-girl-witch-avatar, my bad. -Embarrassed- -Feel like a d***- my bad.

I edited this into my post above that. . . my bad.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i love that you make like 5 edits instead of making 12 different posts.

need more new people like you.

 

[Bones0]

Purpletuce is amazing, dont put him on the same level as Bones.

To that end also dont put Bones on the level of a troll. Trolling is something you do on purpose. Bones just posts and uses it as a safeguard whenever someone points out that what he said was ********(aka all the time)

You're right. I definitely wasn't trolling when I mentioned how I thought DK's SH side-B was a good approach (coincidentally in reply to a DK main asking me).

 

[EthereaL]

Falco
Fox=/<Jigglypuff
Sheik

Falco

Best stage control in the game, the second-best (arguably tied with Marth for first) combos in the game, and he has shine.

Jigglypuff

Jigglypuff forces the opponent to play however she wants. She can effectively zone portions of the stage off, and corral defensive opponents to the ledge. Offensive ones play to her strengths. While I believe that there is a lot of potential in anti-puff positional metagame (other than Bair, she can't approach), we're not there yet.

Sheik

Sheik is fine at fourth, but could potentially rise to third. American players are pretty bad at the Sheik match-up in general.

 

[Habefiet]

You're right. I definitely wasn't trolling when I mentioned how I thought DK's SH side-B was a good approach (coincidentally in reply to a DK main asking me).

That's the whole point though! People legitly can't tell when you're trolling anymore since logic, coherence, and well-reasoned debate disappear entirely when you say things sometimes.

My apologies if this is worded harshly, but seriously, like that thing a few pages back with Falco's neutral game and all. When pressed on what exactly made a "good" neutral game if Falco's was really so poor, and when it was pointed out that if your Falco can't punish a Marth randomly uptilting then you're doing something wrong and that's not Falco's problem at all (you do realize his up-tilt takes over a half a second, right?), you didn't respond to either of these things and rather than trying to maintain any semblance of debate you started saying crazy **** about DK and Mario or whatever.

There's going against the status quo and there's saying very unusual things with very little evidence of any kind and avoiding debate when people call you out on all the things that make no sense and then being all like "you're just hating because it's an unpopular opinion."

IMO

 

[Divinokage]

I don't think Bones0 is irrational, and I love reading his ideas.

I don't agree with everything Bones posts, but they're almost always interesting, and a new perspective to consider.

Unless you're posting frame data, events or something similar, you're constantly posting opinions, and most of the time you can assume you are reading someone's opinion, the only question is if you should agree with that opinion. If you see someone posting about something better than something else, it is probably an opinion. If I say Falco >Fox, that is my opinion, and you(the reader) are the one who I would expect to understand that, I'm not going to put "IMO" after everything I can't definitively prove, and nobody should.

The only ideas I love reading is basically no one, the only true way to learn is by ****ing playing constantly!!

 

[Stevo]

I can never decide whether I love or hate smashboards

 

[Lovage]

its HATE

 

[Divinokage]

Well it is boring as **** to talk about matchups at this point, the same things has been said a million times.. the only difference is, there's new players talking about the same **** again and again. Having idiots not understanding basic concepts is hilarious.

 

[JPOBS]

There's a difference between an opinion and stuff like "mario's jab and ground mixups are soooooo much better than falco's" and "DK's side B is a good approach move"

That's clearly misinformation at best, and if you really believe it, the onus is on you to at least give some solid reasoning apart from "well its just like, uh, you know, my opinion, man"

 

[john!]

everything is an opinion and people who don't agree will require you to give reasons for your opinion

if someone like kk says something, then even if he doesn't explain himself, the fact that he is a very good player qualifies as a reason to believe what he says

but if someone like bones says something, then he needs to explain himself if he wants more people to share his point of view

 

[Bones0]

Well for the record, I quite thoroughly explained how I viewed Falco's neutral/laser game. It was only after people replied to obviously serious, thought-out post with sarcastic one-liners that I stopped trying to explain myself properly because I realized it was a lost cause. If people are just going to bandwagon and then act like my opinions are ridiculous, then there's no hope in convincing anyone. The people who have an open mind will read my posts and learn something (because you can learn from someone's opinion even if it's "wrong"). Others will continue copying and pasting the same tier list and not improving, so it's their loss.

 

[Divinokage]

Maybe now, you know how I feel slightly when people don't understand what I'm trying to say. You know when I talk about either energies or motivation and good **** like that.

If they cant even grasp how a game works, I guess I seriously cant expect them to understand greater things in life. lol. So it shall be.

 

[Deleted member]

everything is an opinion and people who don't agree will require you to give reasons for your opinion

if someone like kk says something, then even if he doesn't explain himself, the fact that he is a very good player qualifies as a reason to believe what he says

but if someone like bones says something, then he needs to explain himself if he wants more people to share his point of view

credibility has nothing to do with the statement at hand. if kk and bones made the same posts, they would be viewed or considered equally.

 

[john!]

credibility has nothing to do with the statement at hand. if kk and bones made the same posts, they would be viewed or considered equally.

they really wouldn't be

nor should they be

 

[The Star King]

john you are right about the first part but dumb for the second part

Edit1: Thanks, Star King, I appreciate it.

lol, upon reading this I was incredibly confused and went back to the previous page to try to find what you could possibly be referring to.

Edit3: F***, I just recognized the anime-girl-witch-avatar, my bad. -Embarrassed- -Feel like a d***- my bad.

I never even had a Marisa avatar (suprisingly). OH YOU

 

[Pink Reaper]

Didnt you used to have a Yuyuko avatar? Or am I thinking of Asianaussie?

Honestly I just think of the two of you as a single "Smash 64 Broomer" entity.

 

[EthereaL]

credibility has nothing to do with the statement at hand. if kk and bones made the same posts, they would be viewed or considered equally.

They should be considered equally, but that is a remarkably naive view to hold.

Edit: Or a really big insult to KK.

 

[asianaussie]

Honestly I just think of the two of you as a single "Smash 64 Broomer" entity.

oh man, i have a feeling he's gonna be so offended XD

SK is the one who had yuyuko, i've never had a touhou avy

 

[The Star King]

That post actually left me... emotionally confused. I felt simultaneously outraged and extremely amused. It was, as Kage would say, quite an experience.

Spoiler

Not really I just died. Way too funny.

Yeah I had a ballin Yuyuko + Kirby avatar

I'm surprised people even know aa on this board btw

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't know aa, but hi! I don't know anything about 64. . .so that's why. Also, these names you guys are saying, I don't know them. I recognize the design of the female-anime-witch looking avatar, and that is what I look at from people, their Avatars. I don't know why. . . by the way, Bones and Kage, I liked your old ones better. EthereaL, your avatar upsets be because I want to read it, but can't. (My computer is like 1ft wide)

I think this board is hopelessly tied with the reputation of its posters. I don't think it is the best aspect, but it has some utility. (As I love doing, here is an extreme example) Imagine if Armada and a random both post Falco's lasers aren't a big deal against Peach if you play smart. You might not give as much weight to the comment from the random, and think he just doesn't understand how lasers work, because he hasn't played anyone implementing them toward their maximum potential. When Armada posts this, you can think deeply about why he is thinking that, and how you think that is relevant. If you go around thinking critically about every poster in this board, you'll probably not be very efficient in learning.

I think if we could all invest a large amount of time into smash(and interest), we would try our best to learn from everyone, and could read everyone's posts and think more deeply about them, but most of us are very busy.

Also, I feel like Kage has two types of posts, ones that are sensible and ones that are not (at first?) sensible. The first category is self-explanatory, but the second one I'm not certain about. Is it typically messing around, or hidden gems of knowledge? I feel like if I was regarded as very knowledgeable in smash, I would probably enjoy putting my knowledge in metaphors and having only the ones who care enough to understand benefit from them. I would also enjoy messing around.
TLDR: If Kage's posts seem like nonsense, should I try to understand what he means, or does he not mean anything?

Tonight I carved a Pikachu pumpkin, and it was the best carving of my life. Happy.

Uploaded to my girlfriend's Photobucket.

 

[Xyzz]

Pi-scary-chu :D

There's nothing wrong with valuing top level player statements higher than what other people say. No reason to blindly follow what they say (e.g. no matter how often a certain somebody is going to say that up smash oos is good in falco dittos, I'm not going to agree there :D), or discredit someone entirely just because he isn't winning international tourneys all the time.
I'd say you don't have to prove (or provide supporting evidence for) everything in your statements, mostly the parts people disagree with... and well, more people are going to disagree with stuff coming from less renowned posters (:

 

[Deleted member]

They should be considered equally, but that is a remarkably naive view to hold.

Edit: Or a really big insult to KK.

kk knows it's not an insult.

perhaps it's just within my little circle, but i know that my friends and i are drawn to post quality much more than to name bias, to the point of openly challenging each other (i probably challenge charles and kevin at least weekly and vice versa). although admittedly my little circle is a pretty good one. i trust you that the powers that be take note of who says what over the long term. if you are particularly good, we will seek you out.

edit: and i know a few of us are watching purpletuce, myself included.

 

[KrIsP!]

credibility has nothing to do with the statement at hand. if kk and bones made the same posts, they would be viewed or considered equally.

You would be deluding yourself to believe that. They may be viewed equally by you who is going to take the time to read and think about the post, but not by everyone. Fact is, a lot of people say they respect KK's opinion and when some people hear that they immediately think he's right. When I was new I thought someone with a high post was trustworthy enough to explain something to me, the amount of misinformation...

I never read Bones' post here but I usually find he has some good things top say or adds for the people who don't get it.

 

[Divinokage]

Ok let me be honest for this post because usually on SWF I'm usually ****ing around or being half-serious which means I want people to think but at the same time I'm joking around/getting reaction out of people with my posts. Maybe it doesn't come across that way but it is my intention.

But when I am being totally serious and then I get dismissed as being ridiculous then it does kinda hurt but at the same time I know that the ones who are truly curious will try to further understand what I'm trying to say at least. I know that I should not waste my time with people that just try to attack me or just post more BS that doesn't really conduct to the conversation.

So, if I want to start delving into things people normally do not do at all like... controlling your energy a certain way where you can instantly become happy or whatever you want really then these kinds of things can be hard to explain I guess or it's hard for people to understand because it's not something familiar. And that energy I mean that we are made out of it, all these little particles interwoven a certain way inside us can be influenced by anything.. just a little change of emotion can disrupt that energy, ANY little action influences you. It's just that there's way you can filter any influence so you can remain centered on what you want or your goal for example. Saying stuff like that is impossible or nothing is happening is really stupid and ignorant.

I guess that's the best way i can describe it for now.

As for smash, well I have a hard time explaining little details concerning matchups and stuff like that.. or how frames work. That's not how I learned to play and I cant really learn that way either. You have to discover your own strength in order to unlock your potential I guess so I learned that I have a great memory and so the best way for me to learn is by grinding endless just one situation until I stop getting punished for one stupid mistake like rolling on the ledge all the time. Eventually, habits formed but then I tried to dissolve it by more grinding... Eventually, I learned so many situations that everything is covered basically lol.. and so I learned how to mix up everything. The grinding part is obviously true for everybody too, you need to train a lot if you want to be great! Same goes for smash, and same goes for life... if you really want to achieve something great, you need to put in the work. No one in the world has THAT much natural skills without training it in the first place. Of course, some learn faster than others but you know, you have to do what YOU can to get to that.. Try not to compare yourself to others, it can be discouraging very quickly.. instead if you want to compare then use it in a way where it would increase your skill instead of limiting you. I dont think anyone can say to you how to play or what works, it's for you to find out... this is why everyone has a different style of play, no one plays the same at all... so find the keys to unlock your potential! If you have a dream then do everything necessary to achieve it. You have to know what it means to embark on a journey like that, you absolutely NEED to know the requirements to get there. When you do, that's when you can do all the work to get there.

 

[ShroudedOne]

edit: and i know a few of us are watching purpletuce, myself included.

I just want to point out that this sounds really creepy, when you isolate it.

Kage, I think that post was really well done, and I'll be the first to say that it doesn't sound like "nonsense" at all.

 

[Strong Badam]

kage stop posting nonsense on the boards

 

[JPOBS]

But when I am being totally serious and then I get dismissed as being ridiculous then it does kinda hurt but at the same time I know that the ones who are truly curious will try to further understand what I'm trying to say at least. I know that I should not waste my time with people that just try to attack me or just post more BS that doesn't really conduct to the conversation.

A lot of times you post spiritual nonsense, you write it off like "oh well, too bad you guys are on my level of spiritual enlightenment so you can't understand my advice" as if its our fault. The ability to communicate effectively with your audience is equally if not more important than what you have to say.

 

[Dark Hart]

Kage, you're looking for /psy

 

[EthereaL]

kk knows it's not an insult.

perhaps it's just within my little circle, but i know that my friends and i are drawn to post quality much more than to name bias, to the point of openly challenging each other (i probably challenge charles and kevin at least weekly and vice versa). although admittedly my little circle is a pretty good one. i trust you that the powers that be take note of who says what over the long term. if you are particularly good, we will seek you out.

edit: and i know a few of us are watching purpletuce, myself included.

I was joking about the insult.

My point was that it's naive to assume the majority of people consider every post with equal weight.

 

[Blistering Speed]

kk knows it's not an insult.

perhaps it's just within my little circle, but i know that my friends and i are drawn to post quality much more than to name bias, to the point of openly challenging each other (i probably challenge charles and kevin at least weekly and vice versa). although admittedly my little circle is a pretty good one. i trust you that the powers that be take note of who says what over the long term. if you are particularly good, we will seek you out.

Seriously, how many times do you feel the need to mention your "little circle"? Sort of self defeating to your point, because you're constantly piggybacking off other's reputation to give your posts some pseudo authority.

 

[Pink Reaper]

stop editing your post, I've seen it change like 9 times now

 

[Blistering Speed]

I'm a serial editor. Never happy with my own wording.

 

[Divinokage]

A lot of times you post spiritual nonsense, you write it off like "oh well, too bad you guys are on my level of spiritual enlightenment so you can't understand my advice" as if its our fault. The ability to communicate effectively with your audience is equally if not more important than what you have to say.

Well I tried as much as I could in my previous post, is it better now? =P The reason why I said that is because it's very hard to communicate that type of stuff. It's usually something that the mind cannot understand. Imagine how one thought can influence your whole being, can you really feel the whole process and see what's really happening? You can't with typical thinking or even thinking about this logically.. That's why these things are outside the mind, you need to train yourself in other ways in order to have better control of these types of things. I can totally say if you have a better mastery of this process then youll be a lot more conscious to whats happening around you and youll be able to feel some AMAZING things. I've felt this a little already but I want to be able to delve more into it... its incredible, really!!

 

[Purpletuce]

kk knows it's not an insult.

perhaps it's just within my little circle, but i know that my friends and i are drawn to post quality much more than to name bias, to the point of openly challenging each other (i probably challenge charles and kevin at least weekly and vice versa). although admittedly my little circle is a pretty good one. i trust you that the powers that be take note of who says what over the long term. if you are particularly good, we will seek you out.

edit: and i know a few of us are watching purpletuce, myself included.

I just want to point out that this sounds really creepy, when you isolate it.

Agreed. Why am I being watched? D: I've come to the conclusion that because of the underlying competitive theme in SWF, it will never be possible to please everyone, especially the people you might be compared to. (ex: I'm pretty sure I can get Leffen mad just by mentioning Yoshi at this point :/ ) Oh well. New goal: Be -generally- well received.

Also, I appreciate the sincere posts, Kage.