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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

leffen

leffen

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Mahie said:
Just want to come back to the Marth Falco debate.

Although it's really easy to powershield lasers that are inside your shield, Falco can aim at the very tip of the shield, making it impossible to PS unless you tilt your shield up while pressing the trigger. That's definitely not as easy to do and people should be aware of that.

Aiming really low makes it hard as well, by the way.

In the end it's just about whether you want to allow him to jump over your laser, or dash underneath. Nothing changes, really, except it's harder for Marth to react to the laser height than it is for Falco to control said height.

Also not using lasers much in the MU is a solid option. Marth's moves are all fairly short time-wise, dodging them and then punishing is as good an option as trying to cancel them out with lasers, imo.
Click to expand...
Wrong @ the top....
If they do super high lasers (so that your shield will just barely hit it, outside of powershield range) no, you cannot powershield it. However, this range is EXTREMELY hard to hit consistently and you can simply dash /crouch under it.

Secondly, if he does it high but still hit dash, its super easy to powershield it if you dash away/stand/crouch. Just look at marths first shield frames (his shield+roys are different from the entire cast), its super easy to powershield.

Low enough lasers so that you cant powershield with marth is not only hard to do consistently, leaves you vulnerable for a looooooong time since it has to be delayed (makes it terrible terrible to approach with) and lasers in the neutral state are really risky since you can counter/jump over them and if they hit, Marth can just throw out a ftilt/utilt/etc preventing him from following up at all.

Also, using the fact that lasers turn around and have low stun is REALLY good. Dash away->take laser-> ftilt /grab/utilt/fsmash/dsmash etc. If they do high lasers, jump away->take laser ->fair before landing/waveland/ff into whatever, dj, side b.

Most character can not use it as well since Falco gets a free laser->ftilt combo but Marth/Sheik and a few others can just outrange the ftilt/shield grab it/cc punish for sooo hard punishment




Damn, I should not give away all my technology lol.

Whatever, hopefully this helps someone and is just not flamed at


@Peach vs Marth: Marths airspeed is 10% faster in NTSC, which helps a HUGE deal when juggling, vs peaches float/recovery and while recovering yourself.
The fact that he is heavier means he dies later and he has less stun (which makes him harder to combo)

His dair is really good, but peach can avoid it if she always aims to BUT that still forces her to limit herself (in PAL you can DI in when getting fair combo'd offstage and going low when recovering as peach is much riskier)
You can kill her really early when she has the ledge (if you predict that shes gonna "ledgehop", you can get a early kill by just dairing her since her DJ is so slow. You can also trade with her up B stalling with the dair if you space properly )
However, the fact that marths dair sends straight down and not at an angle makes it an INCREDIBLE tech chase tool and sets up for kills so well.

I'd say 55-45 ish in pal and 58-42 in ntsc
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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unknown522 said:
i was joking in my last post. Don't worry.

But I still do think that falco does better vs ganon

Also, I see leffen. I learned something new

:phone:
Click to expand...
How so? I know both spacies have good combos on Ganon overall but I feel like it's easier to edgeguard Falco and also to catch Falco doing something dumb to gain the momentum. I mean movement wise, it feels easier to catch him in general even with his super jump height.

I mean Linguini nearly beat PP despite the obvious skill gap, it must say something. He's probably doing something I'm not.
 
unknown522

unknown522

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Maybe.

I just think its easier to keep Ganon out with falco thanks to the laser. Most of Ganon's moves are slow so it compliments his ability to interrupt him. Also, I think his combos are better, plus his moves are more consistent.

Random things like fox's u-throw -> u-air not working at low and mid percentage. Also the fact that he can SDI the u-air pretty easily (it really easy as Ganon compared to a lot of chars). Drill being inconsistent too (again, being kinda easy to SDI compared to a lot of chars).

Still, fox kills at lower percents and has it easier when it comes to gimping Ganon. But the consistent raw Damage and better stage control I think are worth more.

:phone:
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Ya but Falco zoning perfectly is pretty much impossible he's going to get hit at some point.. lol. I hear jab is good.

SDI fox uair with Ganon? Man I get it only like 5% of the time, Ganon is so fat.. lol.
 
N.A.G.A.C.E

N.A.G.A.C.E

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I dont even understand this conversation, of course falco is easier all ganon has to do if float over the lasers

:phone:
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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I think Fox is easier for Ganon too. He can gimp Ganon really easy and Ganon can actually kill Falco at really low percent, especially if he corners him or reads a laser from Falco. From my experience it seems like Fox is a good deal worse for him, just Falco can be more annoying because you feel like he's destroying you all the time but then you get three hits and the bird is dead.

EDIT: Wow just reread my post and realized how bad my first sentence was. Should read that I think that Ganon is easier for Fox than Falco not that Fox is easier than Falco for Ganon.
 
leffen

leffen

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Fox has an easier time FOR SURE imo
Fox also beats CF imo (camping CF who just learns to PS and who forces falco to approach is seriously scary)

even if you cant combo uthrow uair ganon cannot do ANYTHING with proper reaction, and one hit and its an easy combo into free edgeguard.

Falco can't really combo ganon THAT hard imo, DI away+ ganon is super heavy+ falco has problems at getting his opponents low and offstage all hurt his combo ability.
 
Geenareeno

Geenareeno

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Not to mention waveshine? Can ganon SDI out of that easily? And when I say easily I mean is it humanly possible to do it on a semi-consistent basis. You can just wave shine him until really high percents.
 
unknown522

unknown522

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Geenareeno said:
Not to mention waveshine? Can ganon SDI out of that easily? And when I say easily I mean is it humanly possible to do it on a semi-consistent basis. You can just wave shine him until really high percents.
Click to expand...
nah, there's no way out of that one.

Edit: I remember during that set, I was sitting beside kage with europhoria talking about which secondary he should use vs kk. Kage seems to not like the high/top tiers much. So it's between his falco and falcon apparently.

:phone:
 
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