Guide Official Matchup Discussion

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think either of us disagree with the other on any strategic grounds. It's just how we add those strategies up and assign numerical values to them (to determine which one is 70-30 and which is 65-35 and so forth). Which, IMO, is the least important part of MU discussion.

 

[bubbaking]

Bubbaking - Jigglypuff's down+B. That is all.

....................That move broke the tier list...........(T_T)

@bubbaking

Yeah, I know what Sheik's dthrow is like in NTSC. I meant vs GaW specifically.

Marth combos GaW to smithereens, and edgeguarding is free as ****. Tipper kills him at like 10% (ok, not really, but you get what I mean), and it's not even that hard to finish combos with.

In neutral game you can usually just wait for GaW to do something and choose one of several punish options. FoD should be banned.

No idea if that's enough to make him worse than Sheik though.

Well, KK just explained what dthrow can do specifically to G&W. Tbh, most combos don't end in fsmash when you're facing an opponent who knows to ALWAYS DI away from Marth. On top of that, Marth's comboing ability doesn't make him harder to fight than Sheik, because not only can Sheik combo, but she can needle camp as well. I don't think FoD should be banned. Watch gets some nice platform shenanigans there and I think they can actually screw Marth up at times. Yoshi's is probably the better ban choice.

I don't think either of us disagree with the other on any strategic grounds. It's just how we add those strategies up and assign numerical values to them (to determine which one is 70-30 and which is 65-35 and so forth). Which, IMO, is the least important part of MU discussion.

That's very true. Rather than argue over who has the best MU against Watch and how bad it is, we should be actively discussing how to actually fight these chars.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not entirely sure that always DIing away from Marth (particularly his throw) is actually all that wise simply because you can be forced to tech in many situations by doing so, which means he can chase you reactively with his giant sword. And aim for tipped f-smashes. But those are relatively situational DI strategies. And it's largely case by case.

I don't know how Marth's throw works vs Gaw and whether Gaw can shake or not if he DIs down + away to avoid the auto-combos on the other DIs.

 

[bubbaking]

But if you don't DI away, don't you eat an fsmash anyway? :/

 

[Beat!]

Welcome to a tough matchup. I'm glad I don't play it from GaW's side lol.


@throws
It feels like upthrow --> uptilt connects at really low %s (like <5%) but I'm not sure. Either way, it sets up easy juggling. Or you could just go for easy f/dthrow tech chasing/fsmashes.

 

[bubbaking]

Marth's utilt beats G&W's key?

 

[Beat!]

I have no idea if it technically "beats" it (sometimes it feels like it does and sometimes not) but that's not really what juggling's about. The important part is that you're standing firmly on the ground with a sword, and GaW is up in the air.

Even if key DOES beat utilt, you're gonna get punished hard if you spam it every time you're coming down.

 

[j00t]

Marth u-tilt beats key every time.

 

[bubbaking]

I get what you're saying Beat, and dang, J00t, that's crazy! :-O Tbh, G&W isn't really that different from a lot of chars in the respect that he has very little aerial priority below him. There are a few chars, though, that don't mind being above opponets, albeit not Marth.

 

[Jeyfar]

G&W is in a terrible match-up with Marth. his grab combos to anything, and even if you Di away and tech, Marth can tech chase you easily with fsmash or fairs. Horrible match there.

 

[bubbaking]

Same thing happens with Sheik, maybe even worse...

 

[.tea©]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irOqWPKDreo

This funny stuff should be more popular. :D (I don´t mean the moonwalk. I just wanted to show a friend of mine that I´m actually able to moonwalk to the edge with Game and Watch. :D)

 

[DualCats]

For some reason, moonwalking with low tiers seems to impress people. That's why I tried to learn to do it with everyone.

 

[bubbaking]

Would there ever be a time when moonwalking > WD back?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

GnW vs. Falcon is easily GnW's best high-tier matchup.

prophetic :o

 

[j00t]

prophetic :o

lol

 

[.tea©]

For some reason, moonwalking with low tiers seems to impress people. That's why I tried to learn to do it with everyone.

Moonwalking with low tiers isn´t the point. The point actually is that GaW´s moonwalk edgehog is the hardest one to perform. Followed by Jigglypuff and Ness.

 

[DualCats]

I had no idea it was actually the hardest. I don't think I've ever been able to moonwalk with jigglypuff, either.

 

[j00t]

@tea: I think the wind aided your moonwalk. Just saiyan.

 

[Bing]

I could honestly consider using G&W as a secondary, I can combo with him like a boss.
But that shield...

 

[.tea©]

@tea: I think the wind aided your moonwalk. Just saiyan.

I was thinking the same. :D So I recorded it on Mushroom Kingdom II as well. It´s at the end of the video.

 

[bubbaking]

Wait, wouldn't Jiggs probably be his best high-tier MU?

I could honestly consider using G&W as a secondary, I can combo with him like a boss.
But that shield...

Just follow Isai's advice. "Don't get hit!"

 

[j00t]

Wait, wouldn't Jiggs probably be his best high-tier MU?

Nope. :x

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, I just remember people saying that Watch probably counters Jiggs on these boards.

 

[j00t]

I've said on the boards before that Jiggs can possibly be countered by G&W. I haven't played much of the matchup recently though. Or hardly ever. I've only played Hungrybox a few times and ever since TO4 he's dominated me.

 

[bubbaking]

Wait a sec. J00t, don't you also play Falcon? I remember seeing a match of you losing (kinda badly) to IHSB.

 

[DualCats]

Wait a sec. J00t, don't you also play Falcon? I remember seeing a match of you losing (kinda badly) to IHSB.

LOL <3

Also, I never meant to imply that G&W has the advantage vs Jiggs but that G&W could be a realistic answer to her if you can't win with your main. G&W vs Jiggs is probably something like 40/60. Maybe a bit better. I have almost no experience against top-level players in that matchup.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. Kind of like going Samus against Spacies if you couldn't win with your main...

 

[j00t]

Wait a sec. J00t, don't you also play Falcon? I remember seeing a match of you losing (kinda badly) to IHSB.

What is the point of bringing that up >_>

 

[bubbaking]

'Cause I just saw that match a couple days ago. Someone brought it up on the Samus boards; I think it was Duck.

 

[j00t]

'Cause I just saw that match a couple days ago. Someone brought it up on the Samus boards; I think it was Duck.

I have a mental block vs. IHSB and samus' in general. I'm trying to work on it

 

[bubbaking]

I see... That's good to know...

 

[ZaXXoR]

I could honestly consider using G&W as a secondary, I can combo with him like a boss.
But that shield...

You should, he's a beast

 

[Bing]

Lol nah.


Too many characters I prefer

 

[ZaXXoR]

Lol nah.


Too many characters I prefer

Same, I've declined my G&W sadly, too easy to combo and KO sometimes

 

[bubbaking]

I guess we're not gonna be seeing any Tajs or V3ctormans for G&W anytime soon. QERB, I need to see you win some regionals for this guy!

 

[j00t]

I'm already the Vman of G&W :x

 

[bubbaking]

You and not QERB? <_<

 

[j00t]

You and not QERB? <_<

Oh fine QERB can be that Vman of G&W

 

[DualCats]

Money Match.