Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Well I didn't really mean it as what's the coding behind it, but more what inputs are required by me to get the instant falldown on platform off, I can't always reproduce it.
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Guide Official Matchup Discussion
- Thread starter LiteralGrill
- Start date
Crezyte
Smash Apprentice
Y'now... I'm not technically sure. @
QERB
senpai knows more... but I get it when I kind of smash/hold down the control stick just as/just before the u-throw happens on most PFs. For w/e reason FoD is the easiest stage to do it on.
As I said before, it may be right when he intersects the platform that the down input registers some kinda buggy do dah and makes that happen. I would like to know more about this phenomenon though..
QERB
senpai knows more... but I get it when I kind of smash/hold down the control stick just as/just before the u-throw happens on most PFs. For w/e reason FoD is the easiest stage to do it on.As I said before, it may be right when he intersects the platform that the down input registers some kinda buggy do dah and makes that happen. I would like to know more about this phenomenon though..
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Crezyte
Smash Apprentice
On second thought... it may have something to do with the grab release height. Because it works best at a certain height which is around where fox's hand is after the u-throw..
QERB
Banned via Warnings
Yeah it works on any low platforms. I've also gotten it on PS against marth's up-throw, as well as against fox/falco/marth up-throw on the new, 20XX version of green-greens. This confirms that it just works when being thrown through low platforms.
Do the tech before being thrown through the platform and if you're near the edge of it, you can DI right off of it after the instant-tech and be free. Pretty sweet escapes.
Do the tech before being thrown through the platform and if you're near the edge of it, you can DI right off of it after the instant-tech and be free. Pretty sweet escapes.
KingOfSuede
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4
I recently got a video of me doing it on FoD:
I forget if Qerb or someone was looking for a gif/video of it for a thread or something, figured I'd post it here because relevance and didn't want to start a new thread
I forget if Qerb or someone was looking for a gif/video of it for a thread or something, figured I'd post it here because relevance and didn't want to start a new thread
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Kidney Thief
Smash Journeyman
Let's talk about Luigi
Crezyte
Smash Apprentice
Ok what is your first thought about luigi? Mine is bacon.
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
I only play G&W here and there for fun.
Thoughts on Luigi: Luigi beats G&W pretty handily, it's probably -2, unlike -1 as the OP suggests. Luigi kills you extremely easily and can actually combo you, whereas the opposite is probably the case for G&W vs Luigi. The best I could see G&W doing is a game of fairs & tilts, because getting close to Luigi will result in..well.. pain. Maybe even an easy kill with nair.
Disagreements with OP matchup suggestions:
VS Kirby: Even matchup. Kirby kills you a bit too easily and has too comparable zoning or neutral game for it to be a "great" matchup. The fair/d-tilt mix-up only boils down to 50-50 with Kirby's options as well. His uair (not that hard to set-up honestly) will kill G&W very early, while fair will kill kirby consistently at moderately high percents. Reading the OP, it became extremely apparent the OP knows very little, if anything, about kirby in melee. "Aerial hammer packs a wallop" what.
VS Pichu: +2 G&W favor. G&W just outspaces Pichu way too hard and kills him way too easy. Him being fast shouldn't beat you.
VS Roy: +1 G&W favor. A spacing G&W is somewhat hard for Roy to kill, but a Roy is very easy for G&W to kill, combo, edgeguard, or even gimp. Sadly, he still has his disjoints and super-powered kill moves.
VS Young Link: -2 Young Link favor. It's super easy for young link to punish you and camp you, as well as get hit confirms. You're also super easy to KO, making one of Young Link's largest shortcomings a non-issue.
Thoughts on Luigi: Luigi beats G&W pretty handily, it's probably -2, unlike -1 as the OP suggests. Luigi kills you extremely easily and can actually combo you, whereas the opposite is probably the case for G&W vs Luigi. The best I could see G&W doing is a game of fairs & tilts, because getting close to Luigi will result in..well.. pain. Maybe even an easy kill with nair.
Disagreements with OP matchup suggestions:
VS Kirby: Even matchup. Kirby kills you a bit too easily and has too comparable zoning or neutral game for it to be a "great" matchup. The fair/d-tilt mix-up only boils down to 50-50 with Kirby's options as well. His uair (not that hard to set-up honestly) will kill G&W very early, while fair will kill kirby consistently at moderately high percents. Reading the OP, it became extremely apparent the OP knows very little, if anything, about kirby in melee. "Aerial hammer packs a wallop" what.
VS Pichu: +2 G&W favor. G&W just outspaces Pichu way too hard and kills him way too easy. Him being fast shouldn't beat you.
VS Roy: +1 G&W favor. A spacing G&W is somewhat hard for Roy to kill, but a Roy is very easy for G&W to kill, combo, edgeguard, or even gimp. Sadly, he still has his disjoints and super-powered kill moves.
VS Young Link: -2 Young Link favor. It's super easy for young link to punish you and camp you, as well as get hit confirms. You're also super easy to KO, making one of Young Link's largest shortcomings a non-issue.
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Ridel
Smash Ace
From my experience I see the Ganon match-up as almost unwinnable in most legal stages despite the match-up is only -2 in Ganon's favor. Battlefield, Yoshi's, and FoD are horrid places to fight Ganon because of the low blast-zones and Ganon's platform coverage making the match-up almost -3. FD, Dreamland, and Pokemon Stadium are the best stages to fight him on but they are still in Ganon's favor by about -2 maybe -1 on Dreamland. I just find that Ganon's brute power can kill G'Dubs so early. This combined with his poor defense, weight, and approach make the match-up a real chore if you want to take even one stock. Ganon is also very heavy meaning that even with G'Dubs powerful moves he won't be able to kill him easily with his N-Air or F-Smash. Though on the other end of the spectrum, G'Dubs does have an easy time gimping him since his recovery is predictable and G'Dub's aerials have disjointed hitbox's on them. He can also chain-throw and combo Ganon easily as well but going for grabs in particular can be risky because of G'Dubs slow grab and grab range but is still a decent option. On stages with huge blast-zones like Dreamland, G'Dubs will be able to survive a bit longer. He also has optimal time to gimp Ganon on this stage just because it takes him longer to recover. On FD there are no platforms for him to shark you or sneak around your bacon if you decide to use it. But the match is still in Ganon's favor just because of G'Dub's horrible approach and defense don't make up for it. Overall I see why the match-up is -2 in Ganon's favor rather than -3 but on the former three stages I mentioned it's almost no contest. But if you play your cards right and pray to God it's not as bad as match-ups like Fox, Shiek, and Marth. But for the love of everything beautiful on this planet DO NOT BRING GANON TO YOSHI'S STORY!!!!! He will trump you every time, trust me I KNOW!!!!!!!!
(This is based on my experiences so it's not completely accurate, plus I really need help with this match-up)
Thoughts?
(This is based on my experiences so it's not completely accurate, plus I really need help with this match-up)
Thoughts?
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borg
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2015
- Messages
- 14
Hey is this still an actively updated guide?
If so: I would like to contribute some valuable and detailed info on some matchups: like Doc, Shiek and a couple others.
As well as some general precious information about G&W's mechanics on himself that I think very few people are aware of that I was recently enlightened upon when doing in-depth game mechanic research.
If this is not active anymore, which seems to be so since people have given some data and it hasn't been added to the guide, am I aloud to ''steal'' this guide and all information and such and repost it as another more updated guide::: while of course giving all credits and such!
I am a G&W main and I would say I am about equal with qerb or just beneath. In comparison, he's more aggro and lateral in movement and I am more defensive and vertical in movement ( I seem to cover my arse better). If that somewhat legitimizes me... Most people fear me where I am at (especially puffs), I ''only'' struggle with marths and shieks. I have valuable information on countering fox/falco/falcons ;D
There are things that I am aware of with G&W that I would like to chuck out here for the G&W mains to benefit from and discuss.
also.... is qerb still active? all the videos of him I see are like 2013 at the latest. I would love to discuss things with him.
If so: I would like to contribute some valuable and detailed info on some matchups: like Doc, Shiek and a couple others.
As well as some general precious information about G&W's mechanics on himself that I think very few people are aware of that I was recently enlightened upon when doing in-depth game mechanic research.
If this is not active anymore, which seems to be so since people have given some data and it hasn't been added to the guide, am I aloud to ''steal'' this guide and all information and such and repost it as another more updated guide::: while of course giving all credits and such!
I am a G&W main and I would say I am about equal with qerb or just beneath. In comparison, he's more aggro and lateral in movement and I am more defensive and vertical in movement ( I seem to cover my arse better). If that somewhat legitimizes me... Most people fear me where I am at (especially puffs), I ''only'' struggle with marths and shieks. I have valuable information on countering fox/falco/falcons ;D
There are things that I am aware of with G&W that I would like to chuck out here for the G&W mains to benefit from and discuss.
also.... is qerb still active? all the videos of him I see are like 2013 at the latest. I would love to discuss things with him.
CnB | Chandy
Smash Journeyman
Do you have any recent footage of yourself, or notable victories over ranked players? Claiming to be on Qerb's level without any evidence is pretty bold.
Regardless, if you have the knowledge you might as well write up your own guide with some stuff more relevant to the current meta. This one's a bit outdated. You can quote some important bits from here in your own thing but if it's not going to be primarily your own work you're better off just adding your thoughts to this one. Good luck either way.
Regardless, if you have the knowledge you might as well write up your own guide with some stuff more relevant to the current meta. This one's a bit outdated. You can quote some important bits from here in your own thing but if it's not going to be primarily your own work you're better off just adding your thoughts to this one. Good luck either way.
borg
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2015
- Messages
- 14
Alrighty: I'll just make my own.
No I don't have any videos unfortunately that are worth anything: only me and my sparring partner but we are such different levels its not revealing on either of our skills. Yes it's a bold claim, but I'm just trying to say that I think I know something... maybe lols.
Well I'll start making my own and post it sometime. 't'will be a benefit to the G&W players. I'll even provide recordings of me doing example techniques as visual aids and also showing small clips of things from actual credible players like qerb to explain things. I WANT A GOOD GUIDE!!!! 't'is also to my benefit: I can consolidate all my ideas in text.
See you later ^-^
No I don't have any videos unfortunately that are worth anything: only me and my sparring partner but we are such different levels its not revealing on either of our skills. Yes it's a bold claim, but I'm just trying to say that I think I know something... maybe lols.
Well I'll start making my own and post it sometime. 't'will be a benefit to the G&W players. I'll even provide recordings of me doing example techniques as visual aids and also showing small clips of things from actual credible players like qerb to explain things. I WANT A GOOD GUIDE!!!! 't'is also to my benefit: I can consolidate all my ideas in text.
See you later ^-^
Puddi
Smash Rookie
I have a very hard time against Ganon, anyone have tips on how to approach him? He always retreat fair or double jump dair. At least G&W's upair destroy falco's dair but Ganon's just go through every move.
As a Ganon main I can answer this, I have a friend that I play weekly and his G&W is very dedicated. I'm basically the gatekeeper pushing him out of our top four at the present. With Ganon, the approach is a spacing and priority game with lots of reads.
If you want them best results you have to gauge how aggressive the Ganon is going to be. Empty short hop wavelands are magical and can allow you to test the waters. Best thing about them is that if you choose to waveland backwards, faking the approach, you have almost no lag and are in ganon's danger zone during a very small amount of time. Some of your flowchart looks thusly based upon his responses:
1. Ganon uses retreating Fair - You are completely safe, depending on the L-cancel skill of your opponent you can punish him with a safe follow up of your choice to include: SHFFL Fair into D-tilt, turn around in your waveland and go into a SH Bair, WD back in for a forward tilt that will beat his defensive jab if timed properly... these are just examples.
2. Ganon uses double jump - He can't chase if you if you waveland back, if he commits an empty arial then WD or SH back in with your answer. If you take advantage of his jump squat lag, even from an L-cancel it puts you in a favorable position to Fair and approach like you normally would.
3. Ganon calls your bluff/is aggressive - You gotta keep it mixed up, if Ganon see you will always retreat then he may charge after you. In which case you'll have to immediately turn around Utilt in your waveland or retreating Fair depending on your stage position.
They key with my suggestion is to not be predictable. G&W has a waveland that i've come to admire and I believe that you can exert mobile pressure very easily. Though if I've said something wrong, someone can correct me, because I'm speaking as a Ganon player and admirer of G&W as an opponent.