Guide Official Matchup Discussion

[QERB]

When puff is doing nothing but spacing b-airs, it is difficult to get a f-air in without really precise timing/prediction.

A g&w f-air vs puff b-air war most likely will be a losing fight, as a good puff will space his b-airs properly so that you can't punish with f-air. So we have to use g&w's movement to our advantage.

For example, when she commits with a b-air, you can dash or wd past her and: approach from the other side of puff, approach and then shield and then attack her oos (after she hits your shield) with b-air or whatever is fitting.

Another way to deal with this ****storm actually is throw sausages. I've been using them more and more in this matchup and they have been pretty useful. Even connecting with 1 sausage during a puff b-air storm messes up her spacing. On top of that you can follow up a sausage hit with an aerial, if you have enough TRUST in your sausage. Have faith in the sausage. Don't throw more than 2 at a time though in this matchup. Cuz puff moves fast in the air.

Also the worst thing you can do against b-air happy puff is sit in shield. Her b-air will poke your hard shield after 1/2 hits. So ya

 

[S7GF]

Ok, thanks guys. I really need to work on my fair spacing. I know it's usually a safe option when l-cancelled, but I've been grabbed too many times because I haven't spaced well enough..

Back to the grind stone.

 

[S7GF]

Alright, QERB, I need you now more than ever...

I just attended a smashfest last night, and there were a lot of people this time. I'd say 30-40% of them were in the top 10 for the Minnesota Melee Power Rankings. I kept playing against the #1 player on those Minnesota Melee Power Rankings, and he beat me every time. His name is Wake, and he mains Peach.

I could get 1 stock out of him for sure and sometimes 2, but he just adapted so well and kicked my ass. I need all the Do's and Don'ts on Peach ASAP. If I ever hope to beat this guy, I need to know the matchup. I found myself making just stupid mistakes.

What are you supposed to do when you're on the ledge, and she's floating just out of fair range? She's not high enough above the ground so make ledgehop>wavedash>u-tilt an option since she can float cancel an aerial before my u-tilt comes out. Mr. Game and Watch's shield is terrible, but I could see a ledgehop>wavedash>lightshield. That doesn't sound safe though, because his shield still sucks and her aerial could knock you back on the ledge. ledgehop>wavedash>jab doesn't work because she's floating above the hitbox. I suppose I'll just have to wait until she runs out of float...

 

[QERB]

I know that feel man.. She's just floating there and we're just a sitting duck on the edge. So grim. There's some hope though I believe.

One trick that I go to ASAP when peach's start to float->f-air camp while you're on the edge is:
Edge hop-> waveland back onto the edge, kinda like how hax$ does with falcon. Sure, it's not nearly as fast as other characters can do it, but peach's f-air generally takes too long to come out to react to g&w doing this. I do this just to see how the peach reacts, kinda like taking some notes on the player reactions I guess you could say.

But if she does fall for the bait, then she'll lose her spacing and you should be able to capitalize with a edge-hop f-air or something of the like.

If the peach is resilient and won't take the bait until you make a full recovery, then I can assume she's floating reasonably far back, where a ledge hop sausage (i'd throw at least 2) would probably connect. I know it sounds silly but it's actually kinda hard for peach to avoid them while she's mid-float. The only way she could avoid them is to probably air-dodge down through them. Just be careful if she takes the hits from the sausages she'll prob mash n-air immediately after those hits.

The last thing I can think of which is a less aggressive route, only applies on stages with platforms. If you simply press jump while on the ledge, on some of the stages, you immediately land on the platform, which you can wave-land on to, light-shield if she predicts it, or simply jump immediately after. This isn't always the safest way to do it, but since you did say that the peach is not high enough above the ground for edgehop>wd>u-tilt to work I assume that she is too low for her f-air to cover the platform.

Another thing that I do which is super risky but I do anyways because I play stupidly over-aggressively a lot is to just edge hop n-air
It's quite punishable, and is a high-risk/medium reward move, but I find that I go for it after getting the peach to expect me to edge-hop f-air, since if she's spacing according to that, an edge-hop n-air would be a perfect punish. But again.. it's a hard read/high risk/medium reward I shouldn't probably even mention it, but I do it too often so I felt like I had to xD. Make sure if you do it you start the n-air as soon as possible in your jump cuz it already takes kinda long to come out, wanna give the peach as little reaction time as possible.

Another thing which I am thinking of but never actually attempted is to edge hop>-up-b or edge hop->wd>up-b. Especially if you can up-b to top platform, that is usually safe from a peach punish, since her vertical isn't that great. Though it sounds like a desperate attempt, I can see it potentially working. Up-b to top platform is generally safe against peach. But hopefully the stuff I mentioned earlier provides enough tools to deal with dat hoe.

I actually meant to update this thread with peach advice, Phenom actually gave me a lot of good general tips which I'll post soon. Peach is and has been my worst match-up for a while so ya.

 

[S7GF]

Thank you so much for the advice. His Peach just wrecks me... I'd rather play against a Marth or spacy.

 

[LiteralGrill]

What? There was never an archive of the original OP here... What are you talking about...

 

[QERB]

hope you know what you're doing with this thread bro.

EDIT: this thread is my baby

 

[j00t]

Don't **** with QERB's threads bro.

 

[The Phenom]

Don't bro, you should have first contacted original thread owners.

+1Leave QERB's thread alone!
-your awesome though!
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!™

 

[LiteralGrill]

hope you know what you're doing with this thread bro.

EDIT: this thread is my baby

Don't **** with QERB's threads bro.

Don't bro, you should have first contacted original thread owners.

+1Leave QERB's thread alone!
-your awesome though!
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!™

Sorry, I asked mods if I could get control of the threads over here to try and fix them up, organize, and get them finished if they weren't.

Don't worry QERB, I have mad respect for your writeups. I honestly intend on using them almost untouched with the only edits happening if I can find other good tips in some of the posts here or if I can add video examples of techniques mentioned in action. I promise to take great care of your baby, and apologize if you are offended I took this thread, if you want it back to put the work into it just ask and I'll be sure it's done with the OP returned to how it was. I just didn't see anything happening here anymore and wanted to try and complete it for all the characters/spruce it up a bit.

 

[QERB]

Sorry, I asked mods if I could get control of the threads over here to try and fix them up, organize, and get them finished if they weren't.

Don't worry QERB, I have mad respect for your writeups. I honestly intend on using them almost untouched with the only edits happening if I can find other good tips in some of the posts here or if I can add video examples of techniques mentioned in action. I promise to take great care of your baby, and apologize if you are offended I took this thread, if you want it back to put the work into it just ask and I'll be sure it's done with the OP returned to how it was. I just didn't see anything happening here anymore and wanted to try and complete it for all the characters/spruce it up a bit.

It would have been nice if you had asked me about taking this thread before even asking the mods, as I am occasionally on the boards (more frequently as of recent), so right off the bat it felt as though you were just trying to take credit for what info we came up with. I also added the puff section not very long ago, so it's not like this thread had been entirely abandoned, there was just a lack of questions being asked and reliable information to post about additional match-up knowledge.

Also I'm not sure who you are, Capps, but hopefully you have some tournament experience with g&w and are not entirely relying on outside peoples' opinions, as it wouldn't make sense for someone who doesn't know about the character to host a matchup discussion about him.

Conversely, however, you seem to have good intentions for this forum and it could help people who are interested in learning the character, so go for it. All i ask is to just give credit where credit is due (phenom, j00t, kuya, cactuarz, myself etc.) and do a good job.

 

[LiteralGrill]

It would have been nice if you had asked me about taking this thread before even asking the mods, as I am occasionally on the boards (more frequently as of recent), so right off the bat it felt as though you were just trying to take credit for what info we came up with. I also added the puff section not very long ago, so it's not like this thread had been entirely abandoned, there was just a lack of questions being asked and reliable information to post about additional match-up knowledge.

Also I'm not sure who you are, Capps, but hopefully you have some tournament experience with g&w and are not entirely relying on outside peoples' opinions, as it wouldn't make sense for someone who doesn't know about the character to host a matchup discussion about him.

Conversely, however, you seem to have good intentions for this forum and it could help people who are interested in learning the character, so go for it. All i ask is to just give credit where credit is due (phenom, j00t, kuya, cactuarz, myself etc.) and do a good job.

Absolutely. Even the new guide I'm working already credits anyone who came up with something, and anything that goes here you can count on my crediting the people who came up with it. Again, I'm sorry I took the thread from you (I have a feeling it was just a mass give kinda thing) so if you want it back just ask. I promise though that I'll make this into an amazing post given proper time. I know this will be the longest of all the pages I have to update in order for it to be done, so I hope after the wait I can impress you guys with something awesome.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I don't know Capps very well, but I think this thread will be ok, QERB. (This is S7GF by the way; had to make the account because I couldn't find hte password for this one - my main account.)

I understand the concern, but I think having someone like Capps to breathe some life in the G&W boards is a good thing.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

Honestlly I think the best way to fight fox is to first grab hold of a corner(1st match 1st stock, mostly because if You grab central control in the match on say bf while yes it's a great spot, You have no idea what fox will do just yet and being in a corner weakens his shine uses and full hop nair approach, making it much easier to feel out the fox. if he approachs amazing just do YOur best to wall him out just long enough so he won't bum rush and as soon as You have that respect, You can creep up slowly I mostly use walk and empty shs so You can threaten with both a quick fair and wavedash approach. only reason I disargee with heavy wd movement is because i have to much falcon/ics exp. if they predict a wd back/forward it's a super free 0% death and walking lets You space with Your movement based on Your predictions and besides You can srill 2nd jump platform retreat.

after whatever preffered wall tools it's basically if You land a move learn how to force a death combo, should be Youself figuring it out going back on Your videos to be more perfect. fair/drop-zone fair and d-tilt are the ssimplest ways to edge guard.

shield is the most important tool in the match-up that said if You abusing shield di/sdi/ mixed light shielding then You'll argee. fox can not nair shine Your shield if You sdi(easier than it sounds because as soon as You see sh nair You hold Your shield back and slowly grind away and adjust light shielding size and shield angle based on where he's stiking. if You do it all right then You can get a free grab to standard nair shine to blank.

because honestly if You have great di and recovery mix-ups(don;t forget people use sound to gimp watch) fox can't kill You without shine or up-smash, so make those Your biggest issue besides not mindlessly attacking or attacking when being juggled, waveland is normally You're best choice

 

[LiteralGrill]

Also I'm not sure who you are, Capps, but hopefully you have some tournament experience with g&w and are not entirely relying on outside peoples' opinions, as it wouldn't make sense for someone who doesn't know about the character to host a matchup discussion about him.

I don't know Capps very well, but I think this thread will be ok, QERB. (This is S7GF by the way; had to make the account because I couldn't find hte password for this one - my main account.)

I understand the concern, but I think having someone like Capps to breathe some life in the G&W boards is a good thing.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Since it seems like you guys would like to know me a bit more/see some credentials, I'll give a quick run down:

Spoiler

I've been torturing myself playing low tiers since I've played smash, I started playing Melee as Pichu with my G&W as a secondary, Pichu because no one else played him, and G&W because I had played the games he was based on in the past and they had kept me busy for countless hours. I am disabled and have bad fingers, so eventually I had to give up on Pichu (you gotta have insane fingers to play Pichu right) and focused more on my G&W which I brought to various local tournaments and events and managed to place with. (Probably nothing you would have heard of I admit, but taking down the best in small areas of Wisconsin/Michigan when Melee was a bit bigger there is nothing to laugh at.)

As of late I was once thee largest TO for PSASBR only stopping because of how horrendous the game is, and during that time I got a deep passion for learning miniscule things about characters, matchups, and fighting games in general. Since then I've read probably 5000+ pages of these forums for every character in Melee, Brawl, and 64 learning all the ins and outs I can. My fingers may give me a hard time executing these days, but my technical knowledge makes up for it I'm hoping to get back into tournaments and start a local scene back up in my hometown (which I hope to move back to soon) so I came here to make sure nothing crazy or new had happened with G&W and was sad at how dead this forum was. Seeing the influx of new players from Evo, the Smash documentary, and MLG having Smash again, I wanted the forum to get a facelift so if any new players though of choosing G&W they would be impressed from the get go and have up to date info.

tldr; I've beeen to tournaments, have lots of time on my hands, read WAY too much about Smash, and promise to be an awesome guy you all come to love

 

[LiteralGrill]

As you all seem to have the best likelyhood of being active/interested, I was wondering if there would be a possibility of trying to have some live chats like there used to be here about matchups, maybe a weekly thing again to try and pound this out? I'm also interested if any of you have any character you know more about (ex: I have played as/against a lot of the lower tier characters) that you might be able to contribute more and better in depth knowledge on some of these matchups and might be willing to do some writeups of your own (it helps keep the work of doing all but the 4 amazing writeups QERB already did a bit more manageable).

Might there be any takers?

[collapse=Quotes for Folks]

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[/collapse]

(Sorry for the double post!)

 

[popdogger]

Hi everyone,

I'm a G&W main (melee) but I am a total scrub. I especially have a hard time getting grabs, and I always seem to get shield grabbed when I do a SHFFLed Fair. Does anyone know a way to avoid being shield grabbed? Also, is there any sort of video tutorial available for G&W (like how Ken did for marth here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCQIAnYUMM)? If not, would any veteran G&Wer ever consider making one?

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

read my eariler post about holding back on fair last sec so YOu slide back when landing instead of forward

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hi everyone,

I'm a G&W main (melee) but I am a total scrub. I especially have a hard time getting grabs, and I always seem to get shield grabbed when I do a SHFFLed Fair. Does anyone know a way to avoid being shield grabbed? Also, is there any sort of video tutorial available for G&W (like how Ken did for marth here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCQIAnYUMM)? If not, would any veteran G&Wer ever consider making one?

I don't know if any sort of video has been made, there are a few videos of some ATs I think but it's nothing special. It would be cool to see it done though, I'll remember that idea...

Now to help with the shield grab, for one some of it is getting spacing down, it's something that comes with practice. Also, are you L-canceling the attack? It will help a LOT in reducing lab so you can make the attack safer. Also just remember your shield isn't that great either, if you know how to wavedash/waveland that can kinda help with other shield related issues. With G&W it's usually better to just run away and avoid attacks then shield or roll.

 

[popdogger]

I use wavedashing a lot, but I haven't practiced wavelanding. I attempt to L-cancel, but I often miss it.

Someone should def do a video! I think it would be helpful.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

pratice, take Yourself seriously.

dy-synceing is techincal but i,ve used is so much and gotten so use to the flow it feels natural. grind grind grind

 

[LiteralGrill]

I use wavedashing a lot, but I haven't practiced wavelanding. I attempt to L-cancel, but I often miss it.

Someone should def do a video! I think it would be helpful.

There are a few videos on some things kinda like ATs for G&W they are kinda old though. I'll try to find them for you.

 

[popdogger]

There are a few videos on some things kinda like ATs for G&W they are kinda old though. I'll try to find them for you.

That'd be great, any help is appreciated. I actually went to my first tournament on Sunday and made it out pools with 4 wins and 2 losses. I beat a doc, pichu (wtf), and 2 falcos. Then I got absolutely destroyed by 2 foxes. In brackets I got owned by a falcon player and then 4 stocked twice by a marth in losers.

 

[LiteralGrill]

That'd be great, any help is appreciated. I actually went to my first tournament on Sunday and made it out pools with 4 wins and 2 losses. I beat a doc, pichu (wtf), and 2 falcos. Then I got absolutely destroyed by 2 foxes. In brackets I got owned by a falcon player and then 4 stocked twice by a marth in losers.

Hey man way to represent!

As a token of gratitude, 3 old videos that might have some useful info:

Here's 1

Here's 2

Here's 3

That'll at least show you a few cool things.

Edit: Also since you actually played a Pichu, I may make that the first new MU added to the list since I have a lot of experience there. It'll be the easiest add and I can probably do it fast

 

[Cheebs]

Glad to see people still playing low tiers in tournies. Good stuff working pools with g&w. Get used to those spacie MUs, you'll be playing them a lot

 

[popdogger]

Hey man way to represent!

As a token of gratitude, 3 old videos that might have some useful info:

Here's 1

Here's 2

Here's 3

That'll at least show you a few cool things.

Edit: Also since you actually played a Pichu, I may make that the first new MU added to the list since I have a lot of experience there. It'll be the easiest add and I can probably do it fast

Thanks that dair thing looks pretty sweet, I'll have to practice that.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Well I added in Pichu and Kirby, not the matchups you're all itching to know but still nice to have for you low tier tournament people. Another reminded that if you know a lot about a specific matchup and want to contribute just ask!

I'm currently working on Bowser, not sure who'll come after that, maybe Mewtwo?

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

Have You ever played this match-ups? Man what You're doing is cool but it's like someone new to rockets trying to lead a vet. Staff and assist them with things they don't know it's laughable.

Pichu watch is even and kirby loses till he has bacon.

The real questions needing answered are how do You deal with nair the most they can cover 90% of Your options? Pichu's nair quickly covers 1/3 fd and honestly watch doesn't have that kind of range and playing defensive and trying not to approach without a lead is bad. I've timed people out in money matches and friendlies and if i see watch jump it's very easy to snipe or wait for a whiff.

Watch can combo him hard till 50% then it's random hits or juggles which pichu is amazing at avoiding with up-b around You or if You jump at him i'll jump back thunder.

Pick small stages so You can juggle.

Honestly besides random low tiers watch just loses super hard to about everyone besides maybe the marios and bad sheiks????

The match-ups that matter should be talked about first not the 3 match-ups where watch does even or wins.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Have You ever played this match-ups? Man what You're doing is cool but it's like someone new to rockets trying to lead a vet. Staff and assist them with things they don't know it's laughable.

Pichu watch is even and kirby loses till he has bacon.

The real questions needing answered are how do You deal with nair the most they can cover 90% of Your options? Pichu's nair quickly covers 1/3 fd and honestly watch doesn't have that kind of range and playing defensive and trying not to approach without a lead is bad. I've timed people out in money matches and friendlies and if i see watch jump it's very easy to snipe or wait for a whiff.

Watch can combo him hard till 50% then it's random hits or juggles which pichu is amazing at avoiding with up-b around You or if You jump at him i'll jump back thunder.

Pick small stages so You can juggle.

Honestly besides random low tiers watch just loses super hard to about everyone besides maybe the marios and bad sheiks????

The match-ups that matter should be talked about first not the 3 match-ups where watch does even or wins.

I went based on the matchup number provided by the backroom to start, not on my own opinions. And even though I've played Pichu I cannot agree that it's anywhere close to even when you outrange his entire moveset.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

I play a watch main every week and am a pichu main for 5 and half years.
Match-up chart is from decent to really bad
Watch can't safely approach ever and baiting watch is one of the easiest thing to do.

Oh-kay human react time is roughly 10-12 frames watch's jump takes 5 frames and his fair takes 10 frames.

If watch fairs early to beat out moves then it loses to cc and shield always. Watch MUST fair low vs someone grounded pichu's dd is oh-kay but it's enough to bait watch. Basically pichu runs up close enough to watch so he can wd away without risk of being naired butfar enough away so watch can can't just dadh attack. Then we wait dding or do an empty sh and pull back get a free smash or waveland back.

Now if Your masterplan is to use your fast 6 frame d-tilt that only work if i'm not going to pull back and if i don't space for it, because pichu can jump right over d-tilt and nair him in the face. If watch lands it past about 20% then watch gets nothing unless he can somehow juggle pichu.

If anyone is having trouble with watch range they suck hard at the neutral game or are very slow. Watch's only fast moves are d-tilt/grab and has very few half safe options even still those safe options normally get him in a corner.

 

[shapular]

Anybody still watching this thread? I hope so. Anyway, I've started playing G&W in Melee again and I'm having trouble with the Dr. Mario matchup. It seems really hard, in particular I suppose getting around pill spam and edgeguarding (also because of pills). How do you play this matchup?

 

[QERB]

Anybody still watching this thread? I hope so. Anyway, I've started playing G&W in Melee again and I'm having trouble with the Dr. Mario matchup. It seems really hard, in particular I suppose getting around pill spam and edgeguarding (also because of pills). How do you play this matchup?

The most important thing against doc is to make sure to get port priority. If you have it, you can tech out of his d-throws, if not, you bounce up at a perfect combo-able height for doc to combo you in, it makes a pretty big difference.

Some ways around pill spam would be to approach with full jump d-air over pills and land behind doc, since d-air out-ranges all of doc's aerials.

If he is spamming pills from a distance, bucket is fairly safe since it grants you 25 frames of invincibility after absorbing a pill, and most people don't know this fact and will flub a potential punish thinking that it works. Even if they do know it, the best punish doc can get most of the time on it is a grab, which shouldn't be a problem if you have port priority. Also bucket comes out on frame 2 and kills doc around like 35-40% ish, if not earlier from my experiences, just make sure you hit him with it while on the ground.

edge-guarding him is fairly easy since his recovery is fairly linear and he's 100% vulnerable during his aerial down-b. off stage n-air is excellent when he is forced to DI horizontally before attempting the up-b. Otherwise, a well-placed d-air over the edge out-prioritizes his up-b and will beat it out every time. It doesn't have the best horizontal knock-back but will put him in a more and more unfavorable position every time.

Recovering against doc is really hard. Do your best to maintain center-stage. His cape has a huge vertical hitbox ( http://i.imgur.com/mwBEg.gif ).

Even if you sweetspot the edge on some stages the cape will still connect, even if it doesn't, doc can react to sweetspot attempts with wavedash back edge hog. If you have the opportunity to recover high, do it, if not, try to threaten doc with an aerial before attempting to up-b to get him away from the edge, or up-b early as a mix-up to throw him off. Attempting the same sweetspot recovery is easy to react to. If you're getting edge-guarded by pills, just know that you can aerial through them before recovering with u-air or f-air.

After reading "brawl > melee 4eva" in your sig, I feel like I put too much effort into this than i should have. Oh well hope it helps.

 

[shapular]

Wow, I wasn't expecting such a big writeup and I feel kind of bad for asking now. >.> But I'm sure someone else will benefit from it too, so it was probably worth writing either way. Thanks a lot, QERB. It's true that I like Brawl more than Melee, but I've been letting myself have more fun with Melee recently and enjoying it more than I used to. I'll try to go G&W as much as possible at future tournaments and make you proud.

I do have some questions about your analysis. First off, when you say port priority, you mean the one closer to the left, right? Port priority is kind of a big thing in Brawl but I didn't know it made enough difference in Melee to matter. Second, bucketing pills is super hard. They always just end up hitting me in the head or something. Is there a good way to consistently do it? Third, what stages can he cape a sweetspot on? I know G&W can just barely sweetspot on Yoshi's Story in PM; is that the case in Melee too?

By the way, QERB, you're amazing. I saw your sets against Zanguzen from Break Smash #20. I knew you were really good before, but I underestimated just how great you are.

Edit: I changed my sig. Sometimes I get really salty about how Melee stole Brawl's glory, and I originally changed it to that during one of those bouts of salt. But I'm over it for now and am more focused on Smash 4. Besides that, I've been practicing Melee a little bit lately and posting in the Melee forums, and it looks kind of silly to have that while posting here.

 

[QERB]

No problem, and thanks.

And yup port priority as in closer to the left.

Bucketing pills is annoying, it's hard to position yourself properly and fast enough, a lot of the time. I usually just try to quickly wavedash into the right position immediately after doc throws the pill and then bucket, it starts absorbing on frame 5 so it's fairly quick which is good at least. Also remember that bucket charges carry over stocks, so you don't necessarily have to get all 3 charges back to back, since that's kinda obvious. But yeah I don't know any easy/punish-free ways of doing it, but it gets easier the more you try it.

G&W can sweetspot on yoshi's, you just have to essentially be in the blast-zone. From experience it seems that doc can auto-cape on PS, FD, BF, and YS. Just have to try and be tricky with the recovery, luckily up-b comes out in 1 frame so it's not always the easiest to react to.

 

[Crezyte]

Yo, so what is the best way to deal with turnips thrown from a PF length away? I really don't want to WD back and cede positioning and I don't feel like GnW's catch-throw game is good at all... but F-airing a turnip will just send it up...

After a weekly fest, I played against Moltov and he was mostly doing the Armada style peach where it was turnips/float cancel f-airs/DAs and I couldn't take any games off him. They were usually 1/2 stock...

 

[QERB]

The best way to deal with peaches who float camp/turnip camp is to use sausages. When timed right, the pan will have a constant hitbox in front of you, for the entire duration of 5 sausages. The pan also beats the turnip when thrown at you on ground level, and the trajectory of the sausages cover a fulljump-height floating peach, which is usually the case.

I like to mix this up with full jump d-air approaches. Also sometimes I think it's necessary to go for turnip-pull reads and punish with sh-fair, can't let peach get too comfortable with pulling the whole game.

Peach is still one of my top 2 worst m/u's tho, it's tough.

 

[Jim Morrison]

So how about that Falcon matchup?

I feel that that matchup is actually pretty managable compared to other top tiers, at least at the mid level. While Falcon runs around a whole lot, he seems to have a pretty hard time getting in. U-tilt is quite a good stop to his approach (if he does commit). Edgeguarding him is also a blessing.
However, the thing that I'm having huge problems with is his damn grab. Once he grabs you, that's either 50% added to your stock, or you're straight up dead. What DI do you use when he D-throws your around 80% and goes for the knee kill? What DI at 0%? What do you do to avoid the grab at all? What's the preferred stages?

Bonus question: Do you smash DI Fox U-air up or sideways? I've been trying to train it some in the 20XX hack pack, but I feel that the CPU Fox hits them impossibly well.

 

[QERB]

the falcon matchup is not bad. you can duck under jc grabs and punish with d-tilt/grab, and d-tilt and jabs also ruin his grab approach options out of a dash dance. u-tilt is a nice counter to the n-air, as are sausages.

if you get grabbed it's pretty much a mix-up situation where you have to DI in or out, it's not always the easiest for falcon to react to perfectly. The only falcon i've played who perfectly punish off d-throws was s2j, and he would just settled for u-airs out of the throw.

i like FD against falcon the most and FoD the least. On Fd it's easier to anti-approach him with no platforms, and FoD seems bad because falcon can stomp you through the platforms and easily combo out of that.

Kirbykaze has a good guide on how to sdi fox up-air:
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-sdi-foxs-u-throw-u-air-and-not-die.217426/

 

[Jim Morrison]

Also, one more thing that I'd like to know about Fox U-throw.

What causes you to just land on the platform instantly after an U-throw? How exactly does this work and can you do this on any platform?

Bonus question: What are some nice options after intercepting an opponent with B-air in a full jump.

 

[Crezyte]

What causes you to land on the platform? Well as one who is highly versed in mathematics, GnW is a 2-d character and platforms are 3d stages. So, you do math things with intersections and whatnot and BAM you magically land on the PF.

As for the coding reason behind it, to be completely honest I'm unsure as to why it works like that. One guess could be that it was necessary to have it perform like that because they couldn't figure out how to make GnW a normal character and just tried to make it so that no one noticed it by coding exceptions. We still found it though