Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[Suspect]

even matchup imo

kirby over rated

 

[Lord Viper]

Well Kirby's Stone will shorten the distance if Ness' PKT2 does hit it. Depending on how far away Ness is from the stage could simply determine whether or not he'll make it back. And you're right about Ness' PKT. Unlike Lucas' it's a lot quicker. I can't tell you how many times I struck my opponents with that today. XD

☆ True true. Lucas PK Thunder can come unpredicted to, though it's less of a risk than Ness. =P ☆

I gimp Nesses with a simple f-air. However I don't think the matchup is 60:40.. it feels more like 55:45 in Kirby's favor.

☆ Only if he alrady uses his second jump you will able to, and at the right placement. I'll agree with the ratio. ☆

♪ Take Ness to Pokemon Stadium 2 you'll die, take Ness to Delfino Plaza you'll die, take Ness to Castle Siege you'll die, take Ness to Lylat Cruise you'll die.... take Ness to Pirate Ship..... WHA HA HA HA HA HA.... you'll die faster. X3 †

☆ Lylat Cruise isn't a bad place to take Kirby to, but the rest of the stages I'll agree to. ☆

even matchup imo

kirby over rated

Start of a cold beginning )=

☆ But really, this match up is either even or slightly in Kirby's favor. ☆

 

[Kirkon]

inb4anythingover60-40Kirby

Even, i would think

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Is this the match up vs Bowser already? =P ☆

☆ Anyways, it would be crazy to rate Ness that low vs Kirby currently. ☆

 

[Uffe]

No way in hell is it 60:40. XD Anyway, I'm sticking with dead even here, because the last time we had this match up discussion people had agreed that it was even. About your stage choices, Lylat Cruise isn't bad for Ness, but it's not exactly good for him, either. And I'm not sure how it'd be bad for Kirby. You should replace Lylat Cruise with Brinstar as one of his best stages.

 

[Luigi player]

Can Kirby grab release Ness to fsmash?

 

[Lord Viper]

No way in hell is it 60:40. XD Anyway, I'm sticking with dead even here, because the last time we had this match up discussion people had agreed that it was even. About your stage choices, Lylat Cruise isn't bad for Ness, but it's not exactly good for him, either. And I'm not sure how it'd be bad for Kirby. You should replace Lylat Cruise with Brinstar as one of his best stages.

☆ Brinstar? I never thought that stage would be a problem with Ness on it, but I do idmit that Brinstar isn't looking too good for a stage pick for Kirby. )= ☆

Can Kirby grab release Ness to fsmash?

☆ Not that I know of, the start up timing of Kirby's F-Smash is enough for Ness to escape IMO. I have to try grab release more. ☆

 

[Uffe]

☆ Brinstar? I never thought that stage would be a problem with Ness on it, but I do idmit that Brinstar isn't looking too good for a stage pick for Kirby. )= ☆

I don't know if I read that wrong, but Brinstar is good for Ness.

☆ Not that I know of, the start up timing of Kirby's F-Smash is enough for Ness to escape IMO. I have to try grab release more. ☆

I think most characters have a grab release on Ness. Kirby may or may not, though. I'm not sure, since Kirby is a bit shorter than Ness. So Ness might be able to escape it.

 

[§leepy God]

☆ Lylat Cruise isn't a bad place to take Kirby to, but the rest of the stages I'll agree to. ☆

♪ Well, I just clam that stage because all the luck I've seen my Ness do on that stage. I mean I killed a Marth on that stage. D: †

♪ Your Kirby haven't won against me on that stage either and your good at Lylat Cruise. I guess I'm weird like that. :/ †

I don't know if I read that wrong, but Brinstar is good for Ness.

♪ Brinstar wouldn't give us that much of a lead because Kirby is able to take control of the bottom and the top part of Brinstar as good as Ness, but we are able to break apart the stage better, I guess I'll say that's an advantage. I can't say fast kills because Kirby is able to kill just as fast. †

 

[_clinton]

What's the rate on Ness v. Kirby so far?

Also...to the person who said one of Ness' best kill moves is Fsmash...Fsmash comes out on 21 frames and at the tip is just barely better than Lucas' Fsmash...also comparing it to Lucas' Fsmash...it happens to have less range normally as well...even the reflector option on it is the same as Lucas'

Ness' Fsmash is horrible...its got to be one of the worse Fsmash moves in this game (Unlike with Lucas...where its great)

Ness' Utilt, Dtilt, Usmash/Dsmash, Dash attack, Pivot/dash grab, and jab are all better ground options than the Fsmash IMO...

 

[Uffe]

What's the rate on Ness v. Kirby so far?

Also...to the person who said one of Ness' best kill moves is Fsmash...Fsmash comes out on 21 frames and at the tip is just barely better than Lucas' Fsmash...also comparing it to Lucas' Fsmash...it happens to have less range normally as well...even the reflector option on it is the same as Lucas'

Ness' Fsmash is horrible...its got to be one of the worse Fsmash moves in this game (Unlike with Lucas...where its great)

Ness' Utilt, Dtilt, Usmash/Dsmash, Dash attack, Pivot/dash grab, and jab are all better ground options than the Fsmash IMO...

You do know that Ness' f-smash comes out quicker than Meta Knight's, right?

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ That is true. Ness's F-Smash needs to be set up to kill though, it's not a good kill move unless you hit the sweet spot, but it is a damage builder if you land it. ☆

 

[§leepy God]

What's the rate on Ness v. Kirby so far?

Also...to the person who said one of Ness' best kill moves is Fsmash...Fsmash comes out on 21 frames and at the tip is just barely better than Lucas' Fsmash...also comparing it to Lucas' Fsmash...it happens to have less range normally as well...even the reflector option on it is the same as Lucas'

Ness' Fsmash is horrible...its got to be one of the worse Fsmash moves in this game (Unlike with Lucas...where its great)

Ness' Utilt, Dtilt, Usmash/Dsmash, Dash attack, Pivot/dash grab, and jab are all better ground options than the Fsmash IMO...

♪ Currently most of the Kirby members say it's slightly in Kirby's favor, I can see why, however this match up can be even as well because Ness space much better than Kirby in this match up, our only problem is Ness's kill moves lack range compare to Kirby's kill moves. †

♪ As for Ness's Forward Smash, I wouldn't say it's one of the worst in the game, but I do admit it's not a good move to depend on kind of like PK Flash. †

 

[SkylerSilver]

Dudesss
This thread is dying :/ Ummmmm

50:50 or 55:45 Kirby advantage MAX

 

[jiovanni007]

You do know that Ness' f-smash comes out quicker than Meta Knight's, right?

MK's fsmash also ends a lot quicker and can be covered up by dsmash or any other follow up.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Ness is great at breaking brinstar.
PK Fire.

 

[Percon]

Both characters can win
Neither character needs a secondary
Neither character has any unanswerable moves against the other

Can Kirby do something to Ness out of a grab release? Fsmash would be awesome. Even dtilt would work (could lead into an fsmash). If that's true than both characters can kill from a grab.

I actually like Ness a lot and think he's a really underrated character.

Ness' fair is good and annoying, but our fsmash goes through it... not sure about our bair.

Don't recover low... and watch out for his sneaky double-jump.

Close enough to be called even, I'd say.

...I know that was fairly useless info. More later

Oh, and don't forget that Kirby can break brinstar easily, too, with dthrow.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Time for stage picks for Kirby on this match up: ☆

Starter/Counter Pick

Lylat Cruise ★★★★★

This stage messes with his Yo-yo, and PK Fire a lot due to the tilting of this stage. To add, Kirby can use Stone strategies and would easy edgegard as well as gimping Ness easier in this stage.

Yoshi's Island ★★★★☆

This stage isn't very big so faster kills in this stage, not to forget that the Fly Guys can sometimes mess with Ness's PK Fire, and Thunder, and there's not enough room for spiking. A smart Ness player would strike this stage vs Kirby... or most characters.

Pokemon Stadium ★★★★

We're able to perform more tricks and strategies on this stage than Ness, not to forget that we have a grab release infinite on him on this stage's Fire Field.

Frigate Orpheon ★★★★

Let's not forget this stage, were the regular part of this stage on the right side you can't grab the ledge, so gimping Ness on that part would be trouble for him. Not to forget when the stage flips, you'll be much safer than him.

Strike

N/A

Ban

Brinstar ★☆

As a lot of Ness mains say, this stage is nothing but trouble for Kirby. Not only Ness's PK Fire can break the stage faster than Kirby can, but with the stage separated, he can use his stage spike tactics to kill us much faster, not to mention his B-Throw would kill us much quickly if he throw us fresh.

Pirate Ship ★☆

Ness doesn't have to worry about getting gimped to death on this stage, in fact he can water gimp us here, try no to go here or you'll face a hard battle with Ness here.

Delfino Plaza ★★

You should avoid sharking under the stage with Ness or a disrespectful spike will come at you, don't forget water gimping or better yet... PK Fire on the water to a spike for an epic life taker.

 

[A1lion835]

Warning: I haven't really had time to read the discussion so far and I'm about to state something unorthodox.

Stone seems to me to be the best momentum canceler vs Ness's bthrow. I just seem to keep on going back even after I've baired and jump and stuff. If someone already said this sorry, if it's well-known, sorry, if you strongly disagree, flame me and stuff.

 

[Percon]

Personally I'd take Ness to Yoshi's. That stage doesn't seem to be the best for the Mother boys (Lucas especially).

 

[Triple R]

Warning: I haven't really had time to read the discussion so far and I'm about to state something unorthodox.

Stone seems to me to be the best momentum canceler vs Ness's bthrow. I just seem to keep on going back even after I've baired and jump and stuff. If someone already said this sorry, if it's well-known, sorry, if you strongly disagree, flame me and stuff.

Last I knew, kirby's rock acts as a brake similar to that of GaW's bucket brake. The only reason people don't use it is the fact that you get really low then and are likely to die.

 

[_clinton]

For those of you wondering...I don't think Kirby has any grab release stuff on Ness...Ness recovers before Fsmash comes out and Ness moves back too far when released for Kirby's Dtilt to hit w/o moving (so he might have something...but it would be pretty hard to pull off IMO)

Anyway...here are some kill %s

(Test was done on FD with each target at the center of the stage, with no DI, and in training mode)

Ness to Kirby
Bthrow=101
Bair=99
Uair=108
Bat=75
PKT2=28/81
PK Flash=44

Kirby to Ness
Fsmash=95
Hammer (ground/air1/air2)=82/115/100
Usmash=100
Stone drop=99
Dsmash=111
Uthrow=162 (128 on BF's 2nd platform...BF's vertical range is the same as FD's...or at least close enough)

Kirby's Fsmash kills Ness at 95 and Ness' Bthrow kills Kirby at 101...I'd say that's close enough to even IMO...

 

[§leepy God]

♪ It really depends on what stage you throw Kirby at, and how they DI and if you throw Kirby too much it gets' stale, same with Kirby's Forward Smash. Sigh, Kirby's Forward Smash is a pain to deal with as well. D: †

 

[_clinton]

♪ It really depends on what stage you throw Kirby at, and how they DI and if you throw Kirby too much it gets' stale, same with Kirby's Forward Smash. Sigh, Kirby's Forward Smash is a pain to deal with as well. D: †

Smart Ness players save the throw for killing though...and its very easy to save

 

[Berserker.]

Ness players should NEVER use PK flash against Kirby (duh). Kirby I think has better air games than Ness. Ness' meteor smash is weak compared to Kirby's. Kirby players might use dair to meteor smash Ness especially when Ness is in 100% and above. Forward smash can do well against Ness and Kirby's bair can kill well (Though I don't know it's priority) Though Kirby can stale... Ness' grabs are deadly since they do great knockback and damage and Kirby is a very lightweight. Kirby and Ness both can juggle well. When Ness will recover he'll have to hit himself aiming to the ledge, stupid way on stopping Ness' recovery is to go towards the lightning of PK Thunder get hit, since Ness' lightning can't go through enemies not like Lucas, Ness will fall helplessly to his death. Ness' can prison Kirby with a multi-hit PK fire though Kirby can easily DI out of it.

Possible results: Is it proper?
50:50 22%
55:45 35%
60:40 43%

This is just my opinion, not sure about my summary -.- anyway

 

[C~Dog]

Kirby doesnt have a meteor smash, its a semi-spike. And lol at it being stronger than Ness' spike, which is like 3rd best in the game or something,.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Condog is right when it come's to Ness vs Kirby on Metor Smashes and Ness has the thrid best one, (I'll give Samus and Ike the cup of the best spikers). ☆

 

[Berserker.]

O_O Man! It was Ness' D tilt that's weak! Wrong reading in smash wiki, I thought the first move was Dair but it's actually the D tilt, I found out it was at the 2nd move of Ness' meteor smashes in brawl!!!!

 

[Tiersie]

Kirby doesnt have a meteor smash, its a semi-spike. And lol at it being stronger than Ness' spike, which is like 3rd best in the game or something,.

A semispike is an attack that send the opponent downward in a horizontal angle. (Think sheik fair in Melee). Kirby dair is not a semi spike, I think the move that comes closest to a semispike for kirby is the 2nd hit of aerial hammer.

 

[MK26]

☆ Condog is right when it come's to Ness vs Kirby on Metor Smashes and Ness has the thrid best one, (I'll give Samus and Ike the cup of the best spikers). ☆

actually, the honours of spikes #1 and #2 both go to ganon

 

[_clinton]

actually, the honours of spikes #1 and #2 both go to ganon

At higher %...

Ness' base for his Dair is a lot stronger than the bases of Ganondorf's spikes

It just has like a 40 growth rate per % while Ganondorf's has like a 200 or so. Ness' spike can kill at 0% pretty easily if given a chance...its base is over 50% of what Luigi's taunt spike has in power...so while it may not be as strong as Luigi's taunt...who cares?

Adding on to that...it has true combos it can set up for at low and high % (high % only if its stale though)

So what I'm saying is...Ness' Uair has the same power as Wario's Uair...and he can smack you with it easier than Wario can IMO with his...

 

[DemonFart]

Guys, we're attempting to find out which testicle is better. We need you to contribute to the Jigglypuff vs Kirby matchup so we can all get on with our lives.
Oh, here's the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233873

 

[A1lion835]

I think it's time for a new char. Anyone else think so?

 

[SkylerSilver]

I think it's time for a new char. Anyone else think so?

Well I do xD
Do wolf next

 

[jiovanni007]

New char please, I vote King Dedede

 

[Jester Kirby]

So Ness is pretty much finished? I'll just throw in my quick 2 cents. Watch out for the back throw...it's his favorite vs light weights. Pk-Fire to grab/Bat is very common among Ness players. One of the most repeitiive things I see Ness players do though is when you're recoviering, they attempt a down air spike...in a riseing manner. Jump, mid air jump, while riseing down air, retreat. I'm sure higher level players will mix it up but your common Ness will typically stick to this pattern, so recover accordingly. Alot of Nesses like to toss out back airs like DK or DDD would. Just punish that with the FC.

 

[Pink murder]

I agree with Skyler, lets do Wolf next.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Lord Viper]

New char please, I vote King Dedede

☆ I'll say King Dedede as well since the they haven't finished with Kirby sort of speak. Plus since King Dedede is an S tier character, we will fight him more often than others. ☆

 

[GreyClover]

I agree, we should do DDD next.

 

[Pink murder]

I'm cool with D3.... Can we start posting now, or should I wait until its official?


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●