Official 'Item Standard Play' Thread (65k views. Not bad for a side project, huh? :P + Poll in OP)

[kingcobra9]

sure if you so wish

 

[demonictoonlink]

Actually...That sounds like a great use for that ^^

 

[BSP]

Indeed. C. Falcon's new tech.: WALL OF KNEES

 

[KillaFrmNY]

This looks fun.

 

['V']

So... Has there been ANY good representation of this ever? I don't even count WHOBO.. That was a disaster.

I think if I'm ever going to run a Brawl tournament in my life, it'll be this. I don't think this has been thoroughly tested enough because too many people hate items. It's time to change that.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Do it, it will make people who wants to play items in tourney's more happy. Speaking of so, if any rule that needs to be changed is that putting team attack on in items is a bad idea, so turn team attack off. †

 

[Jack Kieser]

WHOBO was NOT a disaster by any means. Sunday con tournaments usually get the shaft, so we kind of expected the 1v1's to take a hit, but the 2v2's ran smoothly and had a GREAT player turnout, including a LOT of top players.

As for Team Attack... it has to stay on. Imagine a 2-man Snake team in vBrawl. Take Team Attack off. Scary stuff, right? Team Attack is a safe-guard to make sure that players have to intelligently use their items, and the risk of team killing is a natural debuff to some powerful items. It definitely needs to stay on, and it works well in practice.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Wouldn't double Snake blow themselves up? †

♪ I get what your saying, but Smashball's tend to kill your partners highly on double's. I guess I'll look into the Japanese team results since I heard they turn team attack off. †

 

[-LzR-]

I have trouble with items like beam sword and star rod. If you don't have any projectiles, you are very screwed as you have no approach options, beam sword strikes so fast, especially with falcon, he strikes and immediately a long swipe that hits even his behind, almost unavoidable. I really want beam sword to be reconsidered as I think it's broken for some characters. And falcons star rod gives you like 45% in a second + you can't dodge it all.

 

[:mad:]

Ganon is great with a beam sword, star rod, or bat. He can just Gerudo -> swipe twice -> repeat.

It's entirely fair.

 

[Jack Kieser]

♪ Wouldn't double Snake blow themselves up? †

♪ I get what your saying, but Smashball's tend to kill your partners highly on double's. I guess I'll look into the Japanese team results since I heard they turn team attack off. †

I haven't heard anything about the Japanese scene; I'd be interested to see some match footage of them, especially if they actually DO turn TA off.

I have trouble with items like beam sword and star rod. If you don't have any projectiles, you are very screwed as you have no approach options, beam sword strikes so fast, especially with falcon, he strikes and immediately a long swipe that hits even his behind, almost unavoidable. I really want beam sword to be reconsidered as I think it's broken for some characters. And falcons star rod gives you like 45% in a second + you can't dodge it all.

Ganon is great with a beam sword, star rod, or bat. He can just Gerudo -> swipe twice -> repeat.

It's entirely fair.

We're talking about Falcon and Ganon here. Part of why items can be cool is that characters can use some of them in unique ways, like Falcon firing 5 stars at once or having a different swing animation. It actually is possible to dodge all of the stars, but it's easier if you start in the air when he's firing. Besides... if any vBrawl characters need a buff, it's those two.

 

[:mad:]

As bad of characters as they are, I'm sure it doesn't matter.

 

[Swordplay]

I just thought Id stop by and say how much I still love ISP.

After playing B+ for a while I finally got around to playing some good old ISP. It is straight up 100X better with texture hacks. Have you thought of perhaps adding item texture hack download links to the OP? I think it would be a cool idea. Though it would probably go in the Smash Workshop....I'd just thought I would present the idea. There are texture hack threads in the Smash Workshop but they are basically dedicated to stage and character textures. We don't have a single one for items. Even if we did, they get lost in the clutter pretty fast compared to everything else due to the lack of posts. Also, it might be cool to eventually expand the ISP rule set for the brawl hack seen. ISP needs more rep. (but that would be a long way off)

Then again I don't want to derail the purpose of the thread. It's completely up to you.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ganon is great with a beam sword, star rod, or bat. He can just Gerudo -> swipe twice -> repeat.

It's entirely fair.

It matters, but it buffs Ganon, he NEEDS it.

 

[Adler]

I disagree with the Screw Attack being Neutral.

You pick it up.
You approch as normal.
But you now have a very fast, and very annoying attack (similar to the fan slap) which you can use at will and sets the opponant up for a:
Fire Jump Punch
Rest
Knee of Justice
Thunder Stomp (if you're not over the stage it's almost an instant KO)
Shuttle Loop
Marth's Footstool to D-air combo.
or any other extremely powerful and quick arial move.

I know I've done this against both CPUs and humans (Good and bad).

The opponant can shield the initial hit, but you still have control and can easily avoid any attempt at a counter attack.

All the opponant can really do is run, shield and dodge like crazy until it wares off (the same as the starman) or use a projectile (thus giving an advantage to characters with projectiles).

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Screw Attack doesn't come too often, however it's easy to make good use of it. There I guess Screw Attack would be Counter/Neutral item, Neutral on teams and Counter for singles. †

 

[Banjo2553]

As I'm sure the starting post is constantly updated, I must say, Bunny Hood DOES alter falling speed, if only to make the length of jumps as long as when the character has no Bunny Hood. For example, I have noticed an increase in fall speed from a Bunny Hooded Samus. This might be a trick of the eyes on my part, so could someone else verify?

 

[Scabe]

Holy nuts, this thread makes me want to to play with items on again.

I never thought of grouping items into 'neutrals' and 'banned' etc.

I didn't read it all since it was tl;dr but it's definitely a great idea and I'm going to try and suggest this to one of the TO's to try it in the next tourney.

 

[maniac200]

For the timer, it is extremely easy to SDI out of the electric effects, so it might not be as broken as it is percieved to be.

 

[justaway12]

They were talking about the timer on the last page, I think this is why.

Not at all. The reason it works is because hitlag is extended with timers, and there's no way you can SDI out in hitlag.


That and it's not just Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Pikachu, and Zelda all immiediatly come to mind that can do that.

 

[Lovely]

Timers are risk/rewards regardless. It can backfire, and work as a really big advantage either or. @_@

 

[Dark Sonic]

Timers are risk/rewards regardless. It can backfire, and work as a really big advantage either or. @_@

I think the issue with timers is that they can be activated involuntarily (if they spawn into your attack then you activate the timer) which, although rare, makes it possible that the player will take an UNWANTED risk.

Also, some attacks are LITTERALLY un-SDIable, Zelda's kicks come to mind. Not sure what causes it, although in PSA the SDIability of a move (the distance one SDI will send you) is a value that can be manipulated, so some moves may simply have it set as zero by default (I know Ivy's bullet seed has a value less than 1 for example).

 

[Jack Kieser]

Woah... we're not sticky anymore... What happened?

 

[Lovely]

I guess it's because not a lot of people are fond of items I suppose. I thought more people would like this idea. :/

 

[Jack Kieser]

I guess it's because not a lot of people are fond of items I suppose. I thought more people would like this idea. :/

That can't be right; if anything, MORE people, substantially more, like items now than when the thread was first stickied. Plus, people are holding more tournaments (if they are indeed telling the truth), further necessitating the need for this to be stickied. Personally, I'd appreciate it if the mod that un-stickied the thread explained why, so at least we know what happened.

 

[Nanaki]

It would appear you got bumped to make room for the 'The Best Vids of Each Character!' thread to be in stickies. Is there a limit on number of stickies a board can have?

 

[Jack Kieser]

It would appear you got bumped to make room for the 'The Best Vids of Each Character!' thread to be in stickies. Is there a limit on number of stickies a board can have?

There's no way that's right; the Workshop board currently has 9 stickies on it.

 

['V']

This thread got unstickied?

Edit: Apparently it did... Sorry, man...

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Re-sticky it. Now.

 

[Nanaki]

There's no way that's right; the Workshop board currently has 9 stickies on it.

I was just throwing it out there as an idea.

I guess you'll just have to ask a mod why it was unstickied.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, we need to know which mod unstickied the thread first, and that probably won't happen unless he just happens to frequent the thread. If the mod that unstickied the thread could, please PM me with why (that way you don't have to expose yourself and I can just post the explanation, if necessary).

 

[saviorslegacy]

This needs re-stickied.

 

[Zankoku]

It seems a whole bunch of non-critical and/or obsolete threads got unstickied to clean things up.

Wasn't me, though.

 

[Nanaki]

Everyone should just blame Hylian until he comes in here and drowns us all with Dr Pepper.

Man that would be a sweet way to go. mmmmmmmmmm

I do think this should stay sticked, though.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Probably because this shouldn't be here anyways. It shoud be re-stickied in general brawl.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Everyone should just blame Hylian until he comes in here and drowns us all with Dr Pepper.

Man that would be a sweet way to go. mmmmmmmmmm

I do think this should stay sticked, though.

I lol'd

Probably because this shouldn't be here anyways. It shoud be re-stickied in general brawl.

no

 

[§leepy God]

Probably because this shouldn't be here anyways. It shoud be re-stickied in general brawl.

♪ Something that's tactical and a great idea for making tourney's should never be in the General Brawl. I guess we will see why it was unsticked. †

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, the only thing I can say is that a lot of time, effort, and hard work by many people went into this thread, and (apparently) people still use the information here. Sure, I'm biased, but I really think it deserves to stay stickied. If there is a legit reason for why it has to be let go, that's fine (although we'd really like to hear it)... but I hope it's not just "well, it's items and we don't need that anymore".

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Oh, I cleaned up our stickies a little bit ago. I mean, being the one who originally stickied this, I can definitely say it was worth it for the time. But when I unstickied it, there was about a month before the last post was made. I just got rid of the inactive stickies that don't really need to be up there is all.

I wouldn't be opposed to re-stickying this... but only if there is enough activity to merit it. "Sticky plz!" doesn't count as activity btw, ^_^''

 

[Jack Kieser]

Ok, that makes sense. And MANY MANY thanks for the original sticky, btw. It was a massive help.

I guess for the people who still want the info in this thread... we'll keep up the discussion. If anyone is planning on holding ISP tournaments in the future, let me know and I'll add info to the op, and you can use the thread for discussion (pertaining to rules, of course).