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Official E for All Firsthand Impressions DISCUSSION Thread

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
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No one ever said Brawl would suck. It just has less potential to be equal in competitive value than melee. Taking out advanced techs is a step backward, there's no arguing with that.
Very true.

I'm not too terribly heartbroken over the loss of the advanced techniques. I've been fairly neutral towards them from the get-go. It isn't to say, however, that I did not use them. On the contrary, wavedashing and all of the other tactics coupled with it were very integral to my game. I just feel 50-50; if the advanced techs were in Brawl, great. If they weren't in Brawl, then oh well. Some fighting game franchises are very dynamic and change sequel-to-sequel. Change is inevitable because of this. You just have to adapt.

Some of these new changes (superficially speaking, most notably the absence of wavedashing and L-canceling) somewhat devalue Brawl's worthiness as a MLG or what-have-you level game. However, even the simplest fighter has intricacies to it and I think Brawl is going to be rife with them. We just need more hands-on time than what some of us are getting right now so that the members of our community can dissect the game and see just what makes it tick. The Smash Community loves the franchise it has been so fervently espousing for nearly a decade now and I don't expect those people to start falling off the bandwagon just because of some tweaks.

Smooth Criminal
 

Tavo_7

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Messages
870
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Man this game is gonna be worth coming out. But still, whats metas final smash :( shall it remain a mystery?

I saw it multiple times, he does something with his cape and the screen turns completely black, when light returns he does an upward slash and sends the opponent flying.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
"I goatata replyay feaster!!!!!~~`` I mutst wain tehase aragumanet!!!!!!!!!!~~~ Btw lolmao I tinhk dat damararama in dis trhead is ummmmmm soo dum lol."
 

xeonoex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
201
Location
Donna. Texas
No, I found a flaw in his analogy.

The people thinking the game should be dumbed down ultimately have no effect at all on Brawl's development. Its Sakurai alone that made those decisions. Stop beating on a dead horse and falsely accusing people simply because they do not share your opinions. If anything, write him a letter, see if it changes anything.
Did I ever say they did? I said its a stupid idea. People can play like noobs if they want and I don't care, but when they complain that the get owned even though the don't practice or take it seriously is just stupid. The better play should win. If you want every player to be equal skill regardless of how they play or how much they practice then you are a COMMUNIST. lol.

And most game developers aren't good at their game and do not develop for competitive level and do not balance games at the meta game level with the exception of PC devs and FASA, who closed down. Console fighters are usually tried to be balanced at the metagame, like GG and VF though. A lot of competitive games are just luck like Halo: CE and SSBM. Halo 2 sucked, but most because Halo 1's lead designer left to make Shadowrun.
 

BentoBox

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
3,214
Location
Montreal
It's called a moral victory.

Bread and I love watching Brawl videos and hearing Brawl news, we're more excited than most for it. We just don't want people thinking that the removal of advanced techniques is a good thing, because it's so clearly not.

And why are you so concerned with ****ing bandwidth, of all things? Jesus man, get some priorities.
Because being concerned about other ppl's opinions about a game should be considered as a worthy priority.

MY BANDWITH > YOU, K???6sixSixtySix.Etc.

If you want every player to be equal skill regardless of how they play or how much they practice then you are a COMMUNIST. lol.
remove all the ATs in SSBM and any pro will still 4-stock you. Removing ATs doesn't mean that casuals will have a chance agaisnt advs.

UNLESS THEY REMOVE MINDGAMES
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
You know, SSB64 had a floaty feel to the characters that was significantly toned down in Melee...

I dunno, maybe they are trying to transition BACK to....64?

In terms of gravity I mean...

Just a thought.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
I don't expect those people to start falling off the bandwagon just because of some tweaks.
Don't be so sure--you have to factor in the Dylan_Tnga's of the world, too.

P.S: You're on SWF but not P2W? Not cool, man.
 

BubbleShield

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
236
god dammit all of you stupid fanboys stop arguing so I can actually keep up what the demo testers are saying :p
 

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
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Memphis, TN
Don't be so sure--you have to factor in the Dylan_Tnga's of the world, too.

P.S: You're on SWF but not P2W? Not cool, man.
If by "factor in" you mean "please make them stop posting and embarrassing the rest of us".

And thanks EPF, that's some awesome info. And XFD at the HugS comment, is upB out of shield no good anymore for Samus?
 

Makkers

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
53
I'm saying that 25 threads of 50pages ea. filled with nothing but rant is a waste of bandwith and time. A new game is coming out and you guys can't do anything but **** on it. If you don't like it, don't play it. that's all there is to it.
Yes to this.

I'm mainly an RTS gamer with a few fighting games thrown into the mix. I figured that since Brawl was around the corner and I have been a huge Melee fan (Going as far as practicing the Adv. techs) that I'd start participating in what is the most popular Smash community. However, I simply can't believe the amount of whining that is coming from some of the posters here. I can understand wasting voluntary time perfecting your game in Melee only to relearn everything in Brawl but that's what keeps a game fresh. I've never heard people complain about the transition from Street Fighter to SFII and SFIII. Hell, to draw upon my RTS background, I'm not seeing the entire Starcraft community complain that Blizzard changed cloning in Starcraft II from manual to automatic while reducing macroing in the game.

I will say that it's not as easy as saying "Just play Melee" due to the fact that Nintendo won't be shipping in new copies of the game but still, this is just too much *****ing than what is necessary.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
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May 10, 2007
Messages
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Alexandria, Louisiana
Ok seriously, I came to post in this thread, and so far I have only found EPF's post regarding demo info...

I take it this is no longer a demo-discussion thread?
 

Kryptonite X

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
42
No one ever said Brawl would suck. It just has less potential to be equal in competitive value than melee. Taking out advanced techs is a step backward, there's no arguing with that.

Advanced techniques that will be pretty null considering the new environment anyways. Now the game is less about muscle memory and more about mindgames and outsmarting your opponent, unless thinking is something that hurts you I don't see how this could possibly be a bad thing.
 

Bread-Butterer

Smash Ace
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757
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Toronto, Canada
"I goatata replyay feaster!!!!!~~`` I mutst wain tehase aragumanet!!!!!!!!!!~~~ Btw lolmao I tinhk dat damararama in dis trhead is ummmmmm soo dum lol."
i agere witf wat dlpeoreeted sed!1 he'z smert u guiuz lissin to him n dis is imorptnat we wni teh argumen n i hop str wolf is i n brwl he wil hav a clw movset with slsh attacks aogm itll b eso cooool om g hollly shi t star woldf!!1 if hez not in eth gaym den sakiriy (lol jpaneez name) is noob!!11
 

Cyntalan Maelstrom

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No one ever said Brawl would suck. It just has less potential to be equal in competitive value than melee. Taking out advanced techs is a step backward, there's no arguing with that.
Enlighten me, then. How is a new game that, other than being of the same series with the same characters, will Brawl be less competitive due to the lack of the previous game's ATs? That's like saying Alpha 3, CvS2, and 3S aren't as deep of games as ST because the games don't play the same as ST.

I must reiterate what you're calling Advanced Techs are merely glitches that could be abused. In some cases, glitches become functions in future titles (such as 2-in-1s from SF2:WW becoming expected in fighting games today) if they prove vital to the game's future. As of now, we see nothing that proves that a future without techniques such as shield canceling and wavedashing were vital to the game's future. Wavedashing merely assisted characters, and really didn't add that much to the game other than speeding up the process. It made no sways in the tiers, it wasn't a revolution in the genre akin to functions like combos.

Shield canceling was only mandatory due to the functions of the block throw being too overpowering otherwise. So far, we don't exactly hear much about that crazy block throwing dominator out there, do we? Who's to say the lack of this function will put characters at enough of a disadvantage to make aerials useless? Again: it wasn't a revolution to the genre. It may have made the game deeper, but it wasn't because Melee wasn't already deep. It really wasn't.

Before the ATs, the game was pretty simplistic, and really had no depth whatsoever. The same couple of characters dominated the rest, and that was it. But that's the evolution of a fighter. People discover what is necessary to further the game's depth, if possible. You move onto a new game? New things to discover. Can't expect every game to have the same basic functions you just spent time on, only with more. A good example: Alpha 2 vs. Alpha 3. This is continually debated, as a big mechanic of the game, which took great skill to pull off correctly, was greatly changed almost to the point of being unrecognizably different. Custom Combos of A2 allowed you to continuously link attack after attack for a limited duration of the meter. To really get everything you could out of it, it took a lot of practice. People spent a long time to master this ability, as it was a big function in the game. Then Alpha 3 came out, and did away with the current Custom Combo system and replaced it with V-Ism, a remotely similar, limited time, massive combo building setup. However, rather that removing attack lag, one had activated time-delayed shadows that would continue the combo long enough for you to repeat it yourself. The change was so drastic that the entire concept had to be pretty much learned from scratch. Did this ruin Alpha 3? No. In fact, the debate still rages on on which of the two games are better.

Note that while my above example wasn't from a function that wasn't intended like the glitches we're talking about today, the principle behind it remains. Even drastic alterations to gameplay do not automatically destroy a game's potential to rival its predecessor. The fate of Brawl's competitive play is far too soon to call. It could be better than Melee. It could be worse than Melee. But in the end, it's Brawl, not Melee.
 

xeonoex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
201
Location
Donna. Texas
Because being concerned about other ppl's opinions about a game should be considered as a worthy priority.

MY BANDWITH > YOU, K???6sixSixtySix.Etc.



remove all the ATs in SSBM and any pro will still 4-stock you. Removing ATs doesn't mean that casuals will have a chance agaisnt advs.

UNLESS THEY REMOVE MINDGAMES
More like 3 stock. I can do every advanced technique so removing them would still leave us on the same level. Our fight would barely change. However If I could do them and the pro could I could probably win depending on the match-up. Saying slowing a game down and removing the things that made it great on a competitive level won't chance anything is stupid though.

And still, less speed and techniques makes it a spacing battle and negates the use of mindgames.
I'm starting to think you suck and know almost nothing about playing competitively. Maybe you just like complaining and have a fast internet connection and nothing to do. You certainly don't have good arguments. You don't seem to try to comprehend anything, like when many people say that mindgames will have less of an effect you still "UNLESS THEY REMOVE MINDGAMES."
Thats why I hate the Brawl board. Samus board is the best. Don't go there please.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
....This is ****ing ridiculous....

It's all over the **** place!

*facepalm

Ok..whatever...fine...*****...and moan...BOTH sides...

but at LEAST tell me what GimpyFish reported....
 

MetalMetaKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
230
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In the Halbeard...Ready to fight >:D
i agere witf wat dlpeoreeted sed!1 he'z smert u guiuz lissin to him n dis is imorptnat we wni teh argumen n i hop str wolf is i n brwl he wil hav a clw movset with slsh attacks aogm itll b eso cooool om g hollly shi t star woldf!!1 if hez not in eth gaym den sakiriy (lol jpaneez name) is noob!!11
lol thats a good imitation of dlpeoreeted:laugh:
 

Kryptonite X

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
42
I hate how people think the game should be dumbed down so casuals can keep up. If they suck they should suck. One person practices and get really good and one plays like a ******. They should not be equal. I have a feeling this is gonna be the "Halo 2" of the SSB series, with Melee being the Halo: CE.

If you are going to compare smash to halo, then Melee would be halo 2, as Halo 2 had a bunch of BS bugs that "seperated the good players from the bad" which were all fixed in halo 3.


And guess what happened, many people cryed and cryed that BXR, BXB, and double shotting were all taken out. It's the same thing on this board with wavedashing and L-Cancelling. Except that l-cancelling is now done for you, and wavedashing is fixed.
 

Bread-Butterer

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
757
Location
Toronto, Canada
Enlighten me, then. How is a new game that, other than being of the same series with the same characters, will Brawl be less competitive due to the lack of the previous game's ATs? That's like saying Alpha 3, CvS2, and 3S aren't as deep of games as ST because the games don't play the same as ST.

I must reiterate what you're calling Advanced Techs are merely glitches that could be abused. In some cases, glitches become functions in future titles (such as 2-in-1s from SF2:WW becoming expected in fighting games today) if they prove vital to the game's future. As of now, we see nothing that proves that a future without techniques such as shield canceling and wavedashing were vital to the game's future. Wavedashing merely assisted characters, and really didn't add that much to the game other than speeding up the process. It made no sways in the tiers, it wasn't a revolution in the genre akin to functions like combos.

Shield canceling was only mandatory due to the functions of the block throw being too overpowering otherwise. So far, we don't exactly hear much about that crazy block throwing dominator out there, do we? Who's to say the lack of this function will put characters at enough of a disadvantage to make aerials useless? Again: it wasn't a revolution to the genre. It may have made the game deeper, but it wasn't because Melee wasn't already deep. It really wasn't.

Before the ATs, the game was pretty simplistic, and really had no depth whatsoever. The same couple of characters dominated the rest, and that was it. But that's the evolution of a fighter. People discover what is necessary to further the game's depth, if possible. You move onto a new game? New things to discover. Can't expect every game to have the same basic functions you just spent time on, only with more. A good example: Alpha 2 vs. Alpha 3. This is continually debated, as a big mechanic of the game, which took great skill to pull off correctly, was greatly changed almost to the point of being unrecognizably different. Custom Combos of A2 allowed you to continuously link attack after attack for a limited duration of the meter. To really get everything you could out of it, it took a lot of practice. People spent a long time to master this ability, as it was a big function in the game. Then Alpha 3 came out, and did away with the current Custom Combo system and replaced it with V-Ism, a remotely similar, limited time, massive combo building setup. However, rather that removing attack lag, one had activated time-delayed shadows that would continue the combo long enough for you to repeat it yourself. The change was so drastic that the entire concept had to be pretty much learned from scratch. Did this ruin Alpha 3? No. In fact, the debate still rages on on which of the two games are better.

Note that while my above example wasn't from a function that wasn't intended like the glitches we're talking about today, the principle behind it remains. Even drastic alterations to gameplay do not automatically destroy a game's potential to rival its predecessor. The fate of Brawl's competitive play is far too soon to call. It could be better than Melee. It could be worse than Melee. But in the end, it's Brawl, not Melee.

wwow lolll u rwote sooo mchu ! 11 lol ur smrt u win. dats relly impresif. i cudnt fiinish it but im prtty shur ur right cus its so long lol gg.
 

nealdt

BRoomer
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OK, spent lots of time playing today. Let's be brief for each character.

Ike: quite slow. His fair is garbage. His final smash needs to hit someone next to you to activate. It's a guaranteed kill if they have medium damage.

Mario: d-air is tornado and I couldn't get it to rise, but I suck. Fludd attack is really wimpy. His final smash pushes you across the screen if you get caught in it (contrast with Samus').

Diddy Kong: weird movement. His b-air is like Mario's and chains together really well; I used it 4-5 times in a row to kill someone off the side of Castle.

Link: he's OK. His up+b doesn't seem to pseudo-spike if it hits after the initial strike. His bomb will kill someone in sudden death.

Sonic: has a really large dash dance.

Bowser: is pretty good. His final smash is amazing and is basically a free kill (at least). Fortress cancelling, fortress from shield, and flame cancelling are back.

DK: his back throw sends you down if you use it near the edge.

Samus: can't bomb jump in the air very easily, maybe not at all. Either the timing is significantly different and no one could figure it out, or you just can't do it at all. You can still bomb jump on the ground (the bomb will send you into morph ball state). Either can't missile cancel or the timing is different to make it difficult to test. Using a bomb in the air gives significant mobility though.

Peach: d-smash has shorter range and does less damage; I used it on HugS in sudden death and it didn't kill. Her dash attack is now two hits, neither or which is particularly powerful. She can still pull beam swords (I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER DO THIS IN BRAWL -- WRITE MY NAME DOWN.) Turnips have some variety but none of them approached the power of Melee Stichface. Her F-air is still good, and her b-air is stronger. Her final smash can be shielded -- HugS had his shield up when I did one once, and his shield kept flashing and getting smaller like he was shielding something (I also did NOT get any peaches from this attack -- may have been a bug). Using her FS when opponent is in the air appears to warp them to the ground, but this may have just been them falling normally while the animation was playing. I don't think she can float cancel anymore; I was never good at it in Melee, but I tried very hard to look for any sign of FC aerials and couldn't find anything. Her usmash shows a heart at the top of her hands. Daisy is still a costume for Peach. I played her quite a bit.

Pit: doesn't seem very good; couldn't find a decent kill move?

Metaknight: very fast and lots of combos; his side b does a lot of damage but leaves you helpless after it finishes. I don't think he has many kill moves either, because I almost always saw him killing people via items. FS must connect with opponent, then it's an auto kill (?).

Pikachu: is cool. He has some badass costumes. His uair and fair combo very nicely into each other. FS is very hard to control, but if you barely tilt the stick it's not that bad.



Techniques and misc stuff
NO:
Wavedash.
L-cancelling (MY PERSONAL THEORY: l-cancelling was made automatic for the demo, because there are clearly moves with much longer recovery times shown in some of the trailers).
Double jump cancelling (Peach/Yoshi).
Yoshi jumping out of shield.
Start as Zamus (couldn't find a button combo).
Light shield (classic controller shoulder buttons are not analog).
Cannot seem to short hop with the Wiimote on its side.


YES:
Dash Dance.
Teching (normal, wall, and wall jump).
DI.
Smash DI.
Chain grabbing (was CG'd by Pikachu's dthrow [without DIing it] and have heard that Mario can too).
Crouch cancel.
Grab items in the air with Z.
Air dodge grapple with Link/Samus.


MAYBE:
Wavelanding; some characters seem to do something like a waveland at times. Hard to test.
Jump cancel shine. Reports vary. Most people cannot get it to work, but some claim you have to hold B while you press jump for it to work; they claim releasing B makes him start a "turn off shine" animation.


COOL STUFF:
You will grab the edge during/after most moves even if you're facing the wrong way.

The Edge Hug: HugS discovered this. Walk off the edge and smash the stick towards the stage. You will grab the edge. Faster than WDing off to edge hog. This is called the Edge Hug, of course.

C-stick does tilt attacks if you also hold the regular stick in the same direction. This makes it very hard to CC downsmash with Peach, because holding down to CC and then C-sticking down will do a dtilt, not a dsmash. You can do all tilts using this method.

Fox can short hop triple laser. But his lasers do not go very far; they disappear after a distance that is about the length of the hole that appears in Bridge of Eldin.
 

SonicZeroX

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/Back on topic!

HA! Fox can't run and lazer spam anymore! His laser distance has been cut significantly!

LOL @ "Edge Hug" =D Good stuffz
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
OAMG str wolf n brwl?!?/11 thzats GNUS!!!!!!!!!! evy1ryon gav dis giu a cokie hollly shi t doood du u thnk mayb hell b abel 2 got ot of pateraytey pirnahas cage of dthaeth?!?! i men zalda cudnt telapotr otutot ofa tha cage bu t mayb str wolf wil b abl 2??!?111 oamg hell b so coooooooooool hell b lik hararary poatter cool
 

BentoBox

Smash Master
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Messages
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Montreal
More like 3 stock. I can do every advanced technique so removing them would still leave us on the same level. Our fight would barely change. However If I could do them and the pro could I could probably win depending on the match-up. Saying slowing a game down and removing the things that made it great on a competitive level won't chance anything is stupid though.

And still, less speed and techniques makes it a spacing battle and negates the use of mindgames.
I'm starting to think you suck and know almost nothing about playing competitively. Maybe you just like complaining and have a fast internet connection and nothing to do. You certainly don't have good arguments. You don't seem to try to comprehend anything, like when many people say that mindgames will have less of an effect you still "UNLESS THEY REMOVE MINDGAMES."
Thats why I hate the Brawl board. Samus board is the best. Don't go there please.
You care.
It is fair to say that Melee would be "bad" without its set of ATs. It isn't fair to state that Brawl is bad because it lacks Melee's ATs. They've removed things, they've added things; if anything, Brawl will be as deep as Melee while being, as you've said, more spacing-oriented. I don't see anything wrong with that. Stop crying.
 

Ekaru

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
184
Location
Minneapolis MN
DDing's in? YES! Now we still have THAT for mindgames, and as such...

MINDGAMES CONFIRMED!

Also, is Dash Canceling in?

*Doesn't see Yoshi in the character impressions*

Those better come by tomorrow night... OR ELSE! *glares*

JK, but I want to know how Yoshi feels like, and more detailed egg throw description, if at all possible. ><; *waits until Sunday* Eh.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
@Nealdt:

Ike: So he REALLY and TRULY is a heavyweight?

Mario: I knew fludd would be wimpy. Any word on people pulling off the hover nozzle?

Diddy Kong: Define "weird movement."

Link: Even with the UpB charged?

Samus: I seriously doubt they would remove bomb jumping altogether. That is a metroid staple. Probably timing issues as you have suggested.

Pit: Hmm..

Pikachu: Describe the costumes.

that should be about it.
 

xeonoex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
201
Location
Donna. Texas
Thanks nealdt. You answered my questions. SHTL sounds cool. Did anyone try ledge teching?

And what do you mean by you can't missile cancel? The missile still has lag after you hit the floor like the charge shot? Cause I'm pretty sure that the missile isn't going back in... It either gets canceled by landing or doesn't like the charge shot in SSBM.
 

Jx31

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Albany,ga
YES:
Dash Dance.
Teching (normal, wall, and wall jump).
DI.
Smash DI.
Chain grabbing (was CG'd by Pikachu's dthrow [without DIing it] and have heard that Mario can too).
Crouch cancel.
Grab items in the air with Z.
Air dodge grapple with Link/Samus.
That's a pleasant surprise, considering what happened to chain grabbing in the PAL version of Melee.

edit for Xenoex-Apparently you can still wall tech, so that means you can ledge tech as well.
 

nealdt

BRoomer
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Messages
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Ike: dunno how HEAVY he is. His moves are just slow. His fair is like Ice Climbers': pulls his sword over his head and swings forward. His nair is weak. His fmash and dsmash are slow. So is his dtilt.

Mario: never seen it.

Diddy: he's very floaty and has pretty good air mobility.

Link: didn't try.

Samus: most likely. But from what I remember, it was almost as if Samus just plain didn't fall fast enough to REACH the bomb before it exploded. She couldn't bomb jump in 64, remember, so it might be gone here too.

Pikachu: he has Ash's hat, Pichu's goggles, and a pimp green gangsta bandana.
 

nealdt

BRoomer
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Messages
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xeonex: didn't try ledge techs. For missile cancelling, she doesn't seem to recover right away when landing during missile animation. It's more like Mario/Doc in Melee, where they continue the pill/fireball animation, whereas Samus in melee stops it almost immediately.

Nintendude: several tried but could not get it to work.
 

Kryptonite X

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
42
(I also did NOT get any peaches from this attack -- may have been a bug).

Peach's final smashes change depending on her mood. How her mood is known, or how it changes is unknown so far.
 

Sir James

The Doctor
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
464
Location
Connecticut, USA
Hey Nealdt, how did the game feel overall? Was the slower gameplay really that much different? Would you say that Melee's speed was more fun? I know it's too early too tell, but I'm starting to get worried about the game's play speed. I have no problem with certain advanced techs being removed, but I don't think I'd dig the slower gameplay.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
4,720
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Upholdin
I must reiterate what you're calling Advanced Techs are merely glitches that could be abused. In some cases, glitches become functions in future titles (such as 2-in-1s from SF2:WW becoming expected in fighting games today) if they prove vital to the game's future. As of now, we see nothing that proves that a future without techniques such as shield canceling and wavedashing were vital to the game's future. Wavedashing merely assisted characters, and really didn't add that much to the game other than speeding up the process. It made no sways in the tiers, it wasn't a revolution in the genre akin to functions like combos.
*sigh*

how many billions of times must i explain this?

L-canceling- not a glitch. It's a modified form of z-canceling from 64, which WAS a glitch. L-canceling was CREATED.

Wavedashing-it's an abuse of the physics engine, and in teh debug menu you can see that it's been named. It was discovered by the devs, and INTENTIONALLY LEFT IN.

Short hopping? That's an advanced tech. and it's far from a glitch. It was added in intentionally.

Jump canceling the shine? a modified form of shine canceling, shine canceling in 64 once again WAS a glitch, but i was incredibly easy to multishine by landing, so it was changed. It's still in brawl somewhat, and was nerfed, because they made it too good. But they MADE it.

Laser canceling? Once again, it was in 64, they left it in melee, they've left it in brawl. Not a glitch.

In fact, there are very very few advanced techs that are glitches. Please actually learn what you're talking about before you spew pointless nonsense.

I'm assuming you're a random scrub who thinks advanced techs are stupid and glitches because he can't use them properly. I live in MD, i play against amazing people all the time, and even when i'm losing i don't make stupid excuses that have no basis in fact.
 
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