Official E for All Firsthand Impressions DISCUSSION Thread

[Ekaru]

I'm assuming you didn't spend 5 years of your life getting good at melee. Sad I know, but it's true, I did. See where I'm coming from?

I spent almost that much, yet I have no major gripes about the new game engine and no more wavedashing/L-canceling. See what I'm coming from?

I can conclude that L-canceling and wavedashing wouldn't matter much in Brawl due to the following:

1. DDing seems to be in, just a little bit different
2. We aren't sure if dash canceling is in, if it's in YES, if it's not in, then I'll be a little disappointed, because a combo of DDing and DCing could somewhat replace wavedashing
3. Reduced lag from ariel, thus speeding up the game anyways
4. Some air attacks act like a waveland
5. You can still up+B (with Bowser at least) out of shield
6. SHFFing requires one less button press, is much more important, and seems like it can sometimes make your character SLIDE now. ZOMGWTFUBERHAX!
7. The new air dodge gives you some more options
8. THE DI IS FREAKING DIFFERENT NOW! The NEW DI allows you to escape combos easier, and the floatyness somewhat also does. L-canceling and wavedash combos wouldn't be as applicable here, even with the fact that L-canceling is useless now because of reduced landing attack lag, and some attacks can make you move forward. The characters can move farther in a direction if they choose to do so it seems, making some combos not as easy now.
9. There may be other advanced techs now
10. Shield grabbing seems to be in, and it was waaaaaaaay more important to be a good player then wavedashing and L-canceling



So yeah. The new engine makes me happy, and I no longer care if wavedashing is out. Now I don't have to worry about wavedashing Luigis when play Bowser, so...

P.S. Some characters have useless wavedashes, ya know, so wavedashing wasn't important for some characters
P.S.S. We don't know how Samus will be a year or two from now, so it's too early to judge, but if they nerf her too heavily, I'll go and beat Nintendo up.
P.S.S.S. Yay for a new game other than Melee, since I can play Melee whenever I want, even on the Wii!

EDIT: Before I forgot, lose the Melee mindset. It's not that useful for Brawl.

 

[greenblob]

Hmph... so less emphasis on combos? Well, hopefully one of the non-demo characters will have insane combo potential that I can mess with.

 

[BentoBox]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26643.html

Diddy and Donkey Kong in adventure mode. Will bring back memories!

 

[BOZO500]

so has anyone form e for all post in anything yet?

 

[Percon]

Cool... I'm not disappointed with the choices made by the creators at all. I'm looking forward to brawl as it's own game and I'm trying not to look at it with a melee mindset.

Also... does anyone know if short-hopped, fast falled aireals can make a sort of psuedo-wavedash (I heard some attacks make you slide...?)? I don't care wither way, but it'd be nice to know.

 

[Katy Parry]

Top tier Boozer FTW

If Bowser has been fixed.....OMFGOMFG!!!! Imagine my main, ZELDA!!! OMFG!! SHE MUST BE AWESOME!!!

But now that wavedashing/landing is gone, I'll have to play the old way....I'm good with or without those techs...

Besides, I discovered Wavedashing/etc. this year. I barely use any except for SHFFLing.

I'm glad Peach has been nerfed!

 

[SurooshX]

I predict that a year from now, nobody will remember these arguments and everyone, including the competitive Melee players, will LOVE Brawl.

Mark my words!

i completely agree guy.

 

[SurooshX]

so has anyone form e for all post in anything yet?

well we have gotten a lot of messages from them telling us what they've experienced. look back in the thread.

 

[Andrew Ott]

You know, I'm dissapointed about L-canceling, wavedashing, etc, because I, like many other people have taken much time to learn them. BUT.

1. I and many other people will still play Melee.

2. The Pros will ONCE AGAIN seperate from the noobs and find more tactics, strategies, and techniques. Because while arguing over things like techs does nothing to people that don't understand, getting beaten with the new ones will.

And if people start disconnecting from online when I use a SHFF(L?), I will be angry and probably only play with friend codes. -.-

 

[cyberdemon]

Okay, I've finally done with reading this whole thread(I was on page 23 when there were only 26 pages, but then one page kept appearing after another faster than I could read..), and I have to comment on people complaining about advanced techniques.

They add more depth, yes. But in my opinion... well, wavedashing, for example. A starting player who learns to wavedash perfectly, he's like "OMGZZ WAVEDASHING SO COOLXXXX" and uses it dumbly when there would be a lot better options available. Why? because everyone wavedashes, it's TEH PRO TECHNIQUE! I MUST USE IT OR I'M A NOOB!11111

So yes. You'll show off with wavedash because it looks cool and pro. Do a lot of dumb stuff too complicatedly even if it could be done in a more simple way. Why? Because wavedashing is pro. Same thing with SHFFL. You shffl spam with fox COX HIZ SHIEN LIEK IGNOREZ ALL LAGZORS!! Then you wonder why that same Marth always dash dance grabs you out of your SHFFL. But can't change, because wavedashing and SHFFLing is pro.

In my opinion, the removal of these techniques will make better players stand out even more. Why? BUT THEREZ NO WEAWEDASHHHH!111 AND II WANA BEH AEBUL TO WEEVIESHEINEHHH!!1!!1

Because, what really makes a good player good? Mindgames, the ability to think, to outsmart your opponent. With the removal of the need to concentrate on the unnecessary technical stuff(although there's sure to be new techniques developed), a player can fully concentrate on outsmarting his or her opponent. And that' to me, sounds very promising.

I don't mind the removal of advanced techniques at all. It's actually a positive change in my opinion. And I hope this mindset will give me an edge over the majority of gamers. You might think that I'm a noobie who doesn't know how to do all the advanced techniques, and thus would like to have them removed. Actually, it couldn't be more the opposite.

For example, here is a video of me playing SSBM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305KpTVlihY

I'm not a superpro, but in my opinion good enough to have this kind of opinion Oh yes, and I'm known for especially my technical skill, not mindgames. So it's not just all the "me ish nub so ish gud tat me no nid to du haard stuf". Anyway, I hope some of the adv-tech-wh*res will at least consider my view for a while before continuing their rampage of flaming.(not really, just sounded cool)

I hope you took the time of considering my views, and thank you if you did.

*sucks with formal replies, always makes them too long *sob* ;_; *

Edit: Wow, 4 more pages during the time I was typing this. Back to reading.

I fully endorse this post

 

[Japanese Monk]

So...anyone with actual vids of Samus' alt. colors.

It seems no one want to play as her.

I want to know more about samus also. What are her other taunts? Is the homing missile still in?

Can she crawl? Is ZSS a good character? Does ZSS's suit change when picking other color variations?

Can samus still do a long grapple?

 

[Cruise]

true that but using tech skill is partially using mindgames.
there's a difference between knowing how to wavedash and knowing when to wavedash

 

[RDK]

And if people start disconnecting from online when I use a SHFF(L?), I will be angry and probably only play with friend codes. -.-

That's pretty much what friend codes are for--playing people you know won't be whiney *****es.

I'm probably not going to fight every Bob, Larry, and Joe in random battles. I don't want to get bailed on as soon as I spank some n00b in the first twenty seconds of the match.

 

[Scar]

lol @ "Dont you get it?" Good grammar. I don't get it.

 

[Deleted member]

Adaptation is for *******. Glad we agree.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Why is it wrong to complain about advanced techniques being removed to make it more noob friendly? We want the game to be advanced, we want it to be considered a real fighter, and we want it to have depth to allow the people who are dedicated enough to become much more skilled than those who don't practice.

As Bread-Butterer said, I think it's ridiculous people are praising the deaths of wave-dashing and L canceling, when clearly those who hate them are just scrubs anyway.

This whole situation is so comparable to an ignorant member of society who doesn't vote in elections yet feels the need to rant about the current leader.

If you don't participate in the election / use of advanced techniques, (depending on what metaphor you're using), then stop *****ing about it and let those who do participate do the whining.

 

[Andrew Ott]

true that but using tech skill is partially using mindgames.
there's a difference between knowing how to wavedash and knowing when to wavedash

One of the most accurate posts in this topic.

Also, in the video with the Golden Hammer on Delfino, anyone notice that there was a diagonally shooting "death beam" when a character fell to his death? Useless but interesting.

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Why is it wrong to complain about advanced techniques being removed to make it more noob friendly? We want the game to be advanced, we want it to be considered a real fighter, and we want it to have depth to allow the people who are dedicated enough to become much more skilled than those who don't practice.

As Bread-Butterer said, I think it's ridiculous people are praising the deaths of wave-dashing and L canceling, when clearly those who hate them are just scrubs anyway.

This whole situation is so comparable to an ignorant member of society who doesn't vote in elections yet feels the need to rant about the current leader.

If you don't participate in the election / use of advanced techniques, (depending on what metaphor you're using), then stop *****ing about it and let those who do participate do the whining.

The problem is that just because THESE techs no longer exist, it doesn't mean that the game is 100% glitch-free and n00b-friendly. The "Stop *****ing" attitude is because you are immediately writing off the game before even playing it. Who knows what other ATs could exist in the game to make it even DEEPER than Melee? What we know is what we're used to is no more. Only time will tell on whether nothing else will surface.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

The problem is that just because THESE techs no longer exist, it doesn't mean that the game is 100% glitch-free and n00b-friendly. The "Stop *****ing" attitude is because you are immediately writing off the game before even playing it. Who knows what other ATs could exist in the game to make it even DEEPER than Melee? What we know is what we're used to is no more. Only time will tell on whether nothing else will surface.

No one ever said Brawl would suck. It just has less potential to be equal in competitive value than melee. Taking out advanced techs is a step backward, there's no arguing with that.

 

[Deleted member]

No one ever said Brawl would suck. It just has less potential to be equal in competitive value than melee. Taking out advanced techs is a step backward, there's no arguing with that.

Quoted for truth.

Did I denounce the possibility of future advanced techniques? No. It's quite possible there are many new ones to be found. But the sheer fact that some are removed simply cannot be stated anyway else other than backwards motion.

 

[BentoBox]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Why is it wrong to complain about advanced techniques being removed to make it more noob friendly? We want the game to be advanced, we want it to be considered a real fighter, and we want it to have depth to allow the people who are dedicated enough to become much more skilled than those who don't practice.

As Bread-Butterer said, I think it's ridiculous people are praising the deaths of wave-dashing and L canceling, when clearly those who hate them are just scrubs anyway.

This whole situation is so comparable to an ignorant member of society who doesn't vote in elections yet feels the need to rant about the current leader.

If you don't participate in the election / use of advanced techniques, (depending on what metaphor you're using), then stop *****ing about it and let those who do participate do the whining.

You are just like the ignorant member of society in the sense that whining and ranting won't change anything at all. The citizen who chooses to vote does have the power to change the course of things ultimately; you're just wasting your time, and ours. Or do you really feel like you're achieving something here?

 

[Danon]

If they take em out for the sake of balance...I say thats step forward.

 

[xeonoex]

I think it really sucks that you can't wavedash or L-Cancel. Bye combos.

This game is gonna be spacing if the gameplay is slow and there is no wavedash. If there is a new Marth he will dominate.

All Castlevania players might know what I mean by the lack of a wavedash because Castlevania has a back/forwarddash. If you go play an older Castlevania without one you'll notice how much more it sucks to have to turn around for spacing, then turn back around to attack. If the game is slow the range characters will dominate, especially if they can avoid getting shield-grabbed.
The should've just added a Castlevania style backdash (one button) so noobs would stop complaining and the game won't suck.

And set combos suck. I don't wanna hold A to get hits. DI prediction was better, and this game better not just be hit hit hit hit hit with no combos. That would make certain attacks good and most unusable. In melee you had to hit right to continue the combo, and judging by the videos, there are still are plenty of useless moves.

Hopefully their will be new tactics to compensate, but none will probably be as useful. Most of the other canceling is probably gone to. JCing, MCing, SHL.

Lightning mode anyone?
I hate how people think the game should be dumbed down so casuals can keep up. If they suck they should suck. One person practices and get really good and one plays like a ******. They should not be equal. I have a feeling this is gonna be the "Halo 2" of the SSB series, with Melee being the Halo: CE.

And with techniques and speed gone, mindgames goes with it. This game could end up just being space, counter characters, and imbalances.
People think the removal of advanced techniques will make the low tier better, but really it wont. It actually made some usable in Melee.

Broken can be good, if every gets it equally.

I'm still looking to see if the shine could be canceled by jumping, If SHL is in, and if JCing is in. If anyone knows a reply would be good.

 

[CHUK]

Lol, yeah, let all the noobs and pros be equally skilled, thank you Sakurai, you're my hero.


Sorry to sound like...a jerk, but I'm pretty sure there are just as many people who are probably being retardedly optimistic about the gameplay possibilites of Brawl than there are people who are complaining about known ATs being gone.

Just sayin'.

and yeah, pretty sure taking out L-cancelling is THE dumbest thing I've ever heard of. seems to me there's only one really logical reason l-cancelling is out of the game, which says a lot about how the game is going to be structured.

Seriously, I understand takingo ut avedashing but why lag cancelling?
My fear is that this is mario party happy fun time turned into a fighter not a sequel to the last previous Smash Bros. games.

 

[RDK]

You are just like the ignorant member of society in the sense that whining and ranting won't change anything at all. The citizen who chooses to vote does have the power to change the course of things ultimately, you're just wasting your time, and ours. Or do you really feel like you're achieving something here?

....that made no sense whatsoever. You basically rehashed what he said, and spit it back at him.

Try thinking before you argue. Sadly, not enough people do that here at SWF.

 

[BentoBox]

No, I found a flaw in his analogy.

I hate how people think the game should be dumbed down so casuals can keep up. If they suck they should suck. One person practices and get really good and one plays like a ******. They should not be equal. I have a feeling this is gonna be the "Halo 2" of the SSB series, with Melee being the Halo: CE.

The people thinking the game should be dumbed down ultimately have no effect at all on Brawl's development. Its Sakurai alone that made those decisions. Stop beating on a dead horse and falsely accusing people simply because they do not share your opinions. If anything, write him a letter, see if it changes anything.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

You are just like the ignorant member of society in the sense that whining and ranting won't change anything at all. The citizen who chooses to vote does have the power to change the course of things ultimately, you're just wasting your time, and ours. Or do you really feel like you're achieving something here?

Are you saying that people shouldn't speak up when they're upset about something? BentoBox? More like FascistBox.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Hello all, I just got back from E For All.

Time to start by saying this: most of the professional smashers were able to make a good transition from Melee mechanics (Except for HugS, no johns) to the Brawl mechanics. Just to inform you, the game feels very different from Melee. Alot of characters in the game play differently, even characters such as Fox have modifications to their playing style. Alot of the control preferance was more towards the singe Wii remote rather than the Classic Controler (Even though the CC was infinitly better). I personally has a smoother transition to Melee than most players. Most of us are on a high level of technicality in the game.

Just to get quick to the engine details... Yes, wavedashing is gone, as the Air Dodge is influnced by your momentum. One good thing is that you are able to attack/ jump after and Air Dodge, which I personally enjoyed. L canceling didn't seem to be within the demo either, but it seemed unecessary for most moves, as the lag reduction/hit stun on the moves allowed you to do some chains, even though some moves had alot of lag. Now, the most shocking thing to me...DI. The DI is insane beyond reasoning. I was able to Smash DI out of several combos and live at percentages up to 200%

There are so many things that I can say about the engine change, but the one thing I can say that was dramatic was the floaty engine. Even characters such as Fox were able to maintain aerial attacking fluently, yet, he still had the same Fast Faller Feel. You may think that you can pull an easy Air Combo, but there is more to it than one might think.

There is still alot of stuff I want to cover, but i'm tired, hungry and I want to make some shout outs:

t!mmy & t0mmy- You guys are awsome, period. I had fun hanging with you guys. I'm still sad that I lost my first MetaKnight ditto with you t!mmy, i'll get you back. t0mmy, you're just **** with Pikachu, but everyone was stealing your style up their with the green bandana Pikachu. n00bs.

HugS- No Johns, period. MetaKnight can't kill for sh*t, so just DI. kthxbai

Neal- You're mean.

Gimpyfish- Once again, you're too good with Boozer. Just make sure you take a note that I did the first ever Drillshine in Brawl. You did the first Bowsercide though, lol. Money Match tommorow?

That one Mario- ****...

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Whining annoys me. There. I threw in my two cents into the current argument.

AND WHY HASN'T ANYONE GIVEN COMPARATIVE INFO ON LINK YET?!?!?!



I want to know if he's better and if he is, how much better!

again

I'm...uh...whining now aren't I? I'll stop.

Link info plz.

 

[Deleted member]

You are just like the ignorant member of society in the sense that whining and ranting won't change anything at all. The citizen who chooses to vote does have the power to change the course of things ultimately, you're just wasting your time, and ours. Or do you really feel like you're achieving something here?

Listen Mussolini,

You don't seem to understand that it's my right to complain, and it's my right to rant against people who praise the deaths of the techs. I don't think I'm achieving anything really, some of these noobs just need to realize that advanced techniques are what made this game so great. And they want to get rid of them?

Why would you want that to happen, if you can't or don't even do them yourself? The reason is because the people who are glad they're gone are only happy because they feel like they can finally compete with the pro players, which is silly.

I want there to be a big gap between noobs and pros. I'm going to strive to keep it that way, advanced techniques or not.


And for the record, you found a flaw in nothing. Because I am perfect. And you ain't. Because you not.

 

[Stak]

Oh man, not this **** again

So, trying to change the subject here:

Dudes who are at E For All, I ask a dumb question

Did they license the Sonic 1 and 2 Act Clear music for Sonic's victory theme, or did they go with the Act Clear music they've used since Sonic 3? Or did they pick something different?

I like knowing little dumb stuff like this...

 

[BentoBox]

Are you saying that people shouldn't speak up when they're upset about something? BentoBox? More like FascistBox.

I'm saying that 25 threads of 50pages ea. filled with nothing but rant is a waste of bandwith and time. A new game is coming out and you guys can't do anything but **** on it. If you don't like it, don't play it. that's all there is to it.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

I'm dying for some more Ike info and vids. I really wanna see somebody do his FS, as well as see the Counter actually connect to figure out if it's more akin to Marth's or Roy's.

 

[Bread-Butterer]

I'm saying that 25 threads of 50pages ea. filled with nothing but rant is a waste of bandwith and time. A new game is coming out and you guys can't do anything but **** on it. If you don't like it, don't play it. that's all there is to it.

My complaints are here to stay. If you don't like em, don't read em. That's all there is to it. I'm glad we agree.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Hello all, I just got back from E For All.

Time to start by saying this: most of the professional smashers were able to make a good transition from Melee mechanics (Except for HugS, no johns) to the Brawl mechanics. Just to inform you, the game feels very different from Melee. Alot of characters in the game play differently, even characters such as Fox have modifications to their playing style. Alot of the control preferance was more towards the singe Wii remote rather than the Classic Controler (Even though the CC was infinitly better). I personally has a smoother transition to Melee than most players. Most of us are on a high level of technicality in the game.

Just to get quick to the engine details... Yes, wavedashing is gone, as the Air Dodge is influnced by your momentum. One good thing is that you are able to attack/ jump after and Air Dodge, which I personally enjoyed. L canceling didn't seem to be within the demo either, but it seemed unecessary for most moves, as the lag reduction/hit stun on the moves allowed you to do some chains, even though some moves had alot of lag. Now, the most shocking thing to me...DI. The DI is insane beyond reasoning. I was able to Smash DI out of several combos and live at percentages up to 200%

There are so many things that I can say about the engine change, but the one thing I can say that was dramatic was the floaty engine. Even characters such as Fox were able to maintain aerial attacking fluently, yet, he still had the same Fast Faller Feel. You may think that you can pull an easy Air Combo, but there is more to it than one might think.

There is still alot of stuff I want to cover, but i'm tired, hungry and I want to make some shout outs:

t!mmy & t0mmy- You guys are awsome, period. I had fun hanging with you guys. I'm still sad that I lost my first MetaKnight ditto with you t!mmy, i'll get you back. t0mmy, you're just **** with Pikachu, but everyone was stealing your style up their with the green bandana Pikachu. n00bs.

HugS- No Johns, period. MetaKnight can't kill for sh*t, so just DI. kthxbai

Neal- You're mean.

Gimpyfish- Once again, you're too good with Boozer. Just make sure you take a note that I did the first ever Drillshine in Brawl. You did the first Bowsercide though, lol. Money Match tommorow?

That one Mario- ****...

Awesome!! =D

 

[BentoBox]

Listen Mussolini,

You don't seem to understand that it's my right to complain, and it's my right to rant against people who praise the deaths of the techs. I don't think I'm achieving anything really, some of these noobs just need to realize that advanced techniques are what made this game so great. And they want to get rid of them?

Why would you want that to happen, if you can't or don't even do them yourself? The reason is because the people who are glad they're gone are only happy because they feel like they can finally compete with the pro players, which is silly.

I want there to be a big gap between noobs and pros. I'm going to strive to keep it that way, advanced techniques or not.


And for the record, you found a flaw in nothing. Because I am perfect. And you ain't. Because you not.

So they are wrong for not wanting a technique upon which they had no power whatsoever when it came to its inclusion in smash3. Big.deal. I despise uneeded drama. And I was under the impression that most of you aren't simply arguing with said noobs but rather the current state of Brawl3, on which you had no first hand impression, might I had. That's what annoys me.

 

[Tavo_7]

Oh man, not this **** again

So, trying to change the subject here:

Dudes who are at E For All, I ask a dumb question

Did they license the Sonic 1 and 2 Act Clear music for Sonic's victory theme, or did they go with the Act Clear music they've used since Sonic 3? Or did they pick something different?

I like knowing little dumb stuff like this...

Theres sound on at every station, but you can't hear a thing It is way too loud at the convention.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm saying that 25 threads of 50pages ea. filled with nothing but rant is a waste of bandwith and time. A new game is coming out and you guys can't do anything but **** on it. If you don't like it, don't play it. that's all there is to it.

It's called a moral victory.

Bread and I love watching Brawl videos and hearing Brawl news, we're more excited than most for it. We just don't want people thinking that the removal of advanced techniques is a good thing, because it's so clearly not.

And why are you so concerned with ****ing bandwidth, of all things? Jesus man, get some priorities.

 

[MetalMetaKnight]

Man this game is gonna be worth coming out. But still, whats metas final smash shall it remain a mystery?

 

[Stak]

Man this game is gonna be worth coming out. But still, whats metas final smash shall it remain a mystery?

I heard it's a short-range powerful stab attack with ridiculous knockback

 

[Bread-Butterer]

So they are wrong for not wanting a technique upon which they had no power whatsoever when it came to its inclusion in smash3. Big.deal. I despise uneeded drama. And I was under the impression that most of you aren't simply arguing with said noobs but rather the current state of Brawl3, on which you had no first hand impression, might I had. That's what annoys me.

Does your grammar get worse when you get angry?